Racial Changes and Lack of Proposed Diverse Gameplay

idk · January 2019

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

CipherNine · January 2019

idk wrote: »

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

Yeah they lied about the purpose of these racial changes. They said they wanted to create diversity. All evidence points to the contrary. The passives have never made any sense at all.
No Elder Scrolls game has ever had as restrictive racial passives as ESO. They should not have anywhere near as big of an impact on gameplay as they do. This is in no way a Elder Scrolls game it just shares the name. Race has never had any baring on the type of character you play in Elder Scrolls. Nor should it. There is a reason so many Elder Scrolls fans hate on ESO. It's more of just a tradition MMO than a ES game.

Ruckly · January 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

Yeah they lied about the purpose of these racial changes. They said they wanted to create diversity. All evidence points to the contrary. The passives have never made any sense at all.
No Elder Scrolls game has ever had as restrictive racial passives as ESO. They should not have anywhere near as big of an impact on gameplay as they do. This is in no way a Elder Scrolls game it just shares the name. Race has never had any baring on the type of character you play in Elder Scrolls. Nor should it. There is a reason so many Elder Scrolls fans hate on ESO. It's more of just a tradition MMO than a ES game.

If you play Skyrim on the highest difficulty you are probably playing either a Nord or Breton because of the resists. Highest difficulty is slider furthest to the right and no smithing/enchanting/alchemy/alteration/illusion. No broken stuff.

Joosef_Kivikilpi · January 2019

IINordoxII wrote: »

@Ertosi: Based on ZoS's original description of their intentions for update 21 I too initially thought we'd get more diversity and meaningful choices. I dared to hope I could play a somewhat viable stam Breton but it looks like the lines are too clear cut between stamina and magicka races.

They are basically saying "Breton = magicka and only magicka, Bosmer = stamina and only stamina, like it or gtfo."

They're changes actually allowed for non-meta race players to get more benefit in their off-stat that can help quite a bit. 258 stamina recovery on a Magic-based Wood Elf... wow - they can actually dodge roll AND they get a move speed bonus as well???

258 stamina recovery unbuffed... when stamina recovery on magick users hover around 600-800.... that ends up being almost a 30-50% stamina recovery boost, while other passive was 21%... which would only be about 120-160 recovery. Huge buff for Magic Wood Elves.

For Breton now, those who choose to go stamina-based (I, for one, do run a Stamina Breton)... getting 100 base magicka recovery + 7% magick-cost reduction... that means as a Stamblade - I cloak about two times more often than my counterparts. You can convert that to any stamina class which uses magick-based abilities to buff etc. You have the ability to do it more than other races would now.

It adds flavor.

IINordoxII · January 2019

I understand what some are saying and that's how I play my Breton stamplar. He can cleanse a little more often than stamina counterparts but it's a relatively minor benefit compared to other stamina races' benefits. I'm not suggesting it needs to be on par, but a little bit of sustain or cost reduction would be nice for stamina abilities as well.

Again, it's not about min/maxing. If I cared about that I would play another race of course. It's about wanting to gain a little more than a relatively minor benefit when compared to other dedicated stamina races and not be so harshly penalized when going against the meta. I could give a rats ass about playing BiS but still wanna feel somewhat viable and be on a more level playing field.

If more diverse passives within each race are not included there will be no diversity overall. Nothing will change. Mages will still be largely altmer or maybe some Breton. Stam will still be redguard. Looking at Nord passives they will probably mostly be DK tanks. Where's the diversity or choice in that?

And before anyone says it, yes you always have a choice but do you want to eat a turd sandwich or a turkey sandwich. "Quit whining you still have a choice" right? Great choice indeed.

Faulgor · January 2019

I'm torn on this. We absolutely should keep the races' identity, and sometimes that means that they excel in a given role more than another. On the other hand, there should always be something you gain from your race, no matter what role you play. Overall I feel the changes moved in the right direction, especially for PvP where more of your off-stats can be useful compared to min-maxing PvE DPS, but there are probably still some tweaks that could be made.

Honestly, I think the best solution would be to add racial ultimates with a magicka and a stamina morph.
At least it would be the most fun.

idk · January 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

Yeah they lied about the purpose of these racial changes. They said they wanted to create diversity. All evidence points to the contrary. The passives have never made any sense at all. .

Where did they lie?

Gil even said they did not want to balance each race to it would be equal in every aspect of the game. That means there is diversity. The proposed changes certainly have diversity.

CipherNine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

This is in no way a Elder Scrolls game it just shares the name. Race has never had any baring on the type of character you play in Elder Scrolls. Nor should it. There is a reason so many Elder Scrolls fans hate on ESO. It's more of just a tradition MMO than a ES game.

First, you could not be more wrong trying to say this is not an Elder Scrolls game. It very much is, but it is an MMORPG, not a single player game and as such it must play differently.

Also, as pointed out above, there are differences in the races that become more obvious, making some much more beneficial when playing on the more challenging settings.

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

I'm thinking how bretons don't get wiped by orcs and redguards in pre- and post-covenant times. I mean there are not so many mages but there is so many stam foot soldiers in any army, breton army should've been defeated each time.

ToRelax · January 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm thinking how bretons don't get wiped by orcs and redguards in pre- and post-covenant times. I mean there are not so many mages but there is so many stam foot soldiers in any army, breton army should've been defeated each time.

That's because NPCs have no racial passives. It's just the players who must be compelled to play their character a certain way.

zaria · January 2019

Ruckly wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

Yeah they lied about the purpose of these racial changes. They said they wanted to create diversity. All evidence points to the contrary. The passives have never made any sense at all.
No Elder Scrolls game has ever had as restrictive racial passives as ESO. They should not have anywhere near as big of an impact on gameplay as they do. This is in no way a Elder Scrolls game it just shares the name. Race has never had any baring on the type of character you play in Elder Scrolls. Nor should it. There is a reason so many Elder Scrolls fans hate on ESO. It's more of just a tradition MMO than a ES game.

If you play Skyrim on the highest difficulty you are probably playing either a Nord or Breton because of the resists. Highest difficulty is slider furthest to the right and no smithing/enchanting/alchemy/alteration/illusion. No broken stuff.

Just use potions, i generally played skyrim with low health as in below 200 but not on hardest. needed potions against aoe fire and frost.

Skyrim is generaly not included in discussions about elder scroll racials. as they was pretty much removed.
In Daggerfall to Oblivion they affected starting attributes and skills who had an huge impact at low levels but as you leveled them towards 100 this became less and less important.
And the effect was huge an female Khajiit or Bosmer had an starting strength of 30 in Oblivion, you wanted to increase this asap even on an magic build to carry more loot.
Starting bonuses had worked very well in ESO at release, not so well today as overland and quest bosses are easier while batte scaling would conflict with it.

Chrlynsch · January 2019

The changes are narrowing the gap between *good and bad racial* choices.

But op is a non min maxer so why care at all?

ComboBreaker88 · January 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I do not think they intended to make every race passive work for both stamina and magicka builds. This would seem clear if you look at the wood elf, and orc more that is still pretty much stamina.

So while your observation about the Bretton not being versatile for stam and magicka is correct it seems they did not seem to intend every race's passives work for both types of builds.

Yeah they lied about the purpose of these racial changes. They said they wanted to create diversity. All evidence points to the contrary. The passives have never made any sense at all.
No Elder Scrolls game has ever had as restrictive racial passives as ESO. They should not have anywhere near as big of an impact on gameplay as they do. This is in no way a Elder Scrolls game it just shares the name. Race has never had any baring on the type of character you play in Elder Scrolls. Nor should it. There is a reason so many Elder Scrolls fans hate on ESO. It's more of just a tradition MMO than a ES game.

This.

Magilacuddy · January 2019

Here is a simple idea, why not just remove race passives apart from the exp boosts and minor things like +5% pickpocket. Then you can be any race and not worry about picking the meta race? Puts everyone on a level playing field and also new player friendly - also almost removed the need for race change tokens meaning they will never ever do it.

IINordoxII · January 2019

Chrlynsch wrote: »

The changes are narrowing the gap between *good and bad racial* choices.

But op is a non min maxer so why care at all?

I agree with your first sentence.

To answer your question, not being a min/maxer doesn’t mean not caring about stats or bonuses at all. It just means it isn’t the main focus or reason to choose a race.

Castagere · January 2019

CipherNine wrote: »

Lore should have nothing to do with racial passives. There is even things in game that prove that.
In Oblivion you created the character you wanted no matter the race by choosing what mundus sign you were born under. That determined your affinity to warrior, mage or stealth type character. race didn't matter.

In ESO, Shalidor is the greatest mage of the 1st era. He is a NORD! But wait Nords have no magicka passives. well that don't make sense lorewise then. Shalidor should be a terrible mage. He is a Nord. Also why is there a mages guild in Nord cities. They are just drunken warriors if you want to use the Lore defense.
ZOS used a redguard to advertise the Necromancer. Where the magicka passive for redguards. Whats with all this lore breaking stuff? since so many of you seem to think everyone in a certain race is all the same.

This is what I was hoping they would do here. All they did was buff them a little. How is that letting you play your character your way? I was really disappointed in how they went with this. It seems really cheap. People screaming lore breaking don't know crap about the lore. If you never played the older single player games you wouldn't talk about lore breaking. Redguard could use magic but in ESO they decided to change it. Your race in ESO decides your build, not you.