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Quarterly reminder to update the old Arena weapons.

  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.
    Edited by Masel on January 9, 2019 9:51AM
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  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.
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  • ccfeeling
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    VMA HM
    VDSA HM

    Sounds good :D
  • Ragnarock41
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    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    No offense but that sounds like nothing but a cheap excuse to me. They had no problems removing those bonuses from them in the first place. I'm pretty sure they can easily revert the changes. And fix the vMA 2h dot while at it, preferably before 2023 or something.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 11, 2019 5:02PM
  • TheYKcid
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    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    No offense but that sounds like nothing but a cheap excuse to me. They had no problems removing those bonuses from them in the first place.

    Exactly! They had zero qualms removing the original unique Arena weapon enchantment system on a whim when CWC PTS landed, and that was a far more extensive change than the addition of a 1pc stat bonus—not just in technical complexity, but balance implications too.

    But now when faced with the prospect of giving a measly 1pc stat bonus, they've got to deliberate, debate and procrastinate for half a year with still no ETA? I agree that it doesn't seem very consistent at all.
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  • idk
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    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    No offense but that sounds like nothing but a cheap excuse to me. They had no problems removing those bonuses from them in the first place. I'm pretty sure they can easily revert the changes. And fix the vMA 2h dot while at it, preferably before 2023 or something.

    First, the change was not that big of a deal, especially in the current game design. I think I will keep the additional 452 WD on my vMA bow vs the ~245 the old enchant provided. Ofc, both of those numbers are infused. iirc, even before the back bar enchant kept procing the numbers were still favorable to the current change. Again, if I recall discussions with theorycrafters about their testing.


    With that information it is clear it was not a cheap excuse to give us a beneficial choice. Certainly not something serious players would want reverted willy nilly.

    I like the idea of perfected weapons dropping with a higher challenge than just clearing the content as it is now. I like the idea of letting us keep the choice to enchant the weapons and providing us a little more. That is certainly better than making the weapons weaker as is being suggested in this thread.
  • jcm2606
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    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    H-how is that in any way an adequate reason as to not adding them back? Why would they even need to? It's not like BRP has Normal, Veteran, Insane Mode. It has the same two difficulties as everything else.

    What they're really saying is they don't want to retroactively reapply the 1pc bonuses, because it would be a waste considering the alternative presents such a horrific juicy grind. They don't want to retroactively reapply the 1pc bonuses because they want to keep us playing. They don't really care about it.

    I'd even argue that the whole higher level of difficulty argument is flawed in itself, because it doesn't take into consideration the grouping. AS has 12 people in a group, 12 chances at the item. BRP & DSA has 4 people in a group, 4 chances at the item. vMA has 1 person in a group, 1 chance. 12 != 4 != 1. So, frankly, this entire higher level of difficulty argument is BS.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    idk wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    No offense but that sounds like nothing but a cheap excuse to me. They had no problems removing those bonuses from them in the first place. I'm pretty sure they can easily revert the changes. And fix the vMA 2h dot while at it, preferably before 2023 or something.
    I like the idea of perfected weapons dropping with a higher challenge than just clearing the content as it is now. I like the idea of letting us keep the choice to enchant the weapons and providing us a little more. That is certainly better than making the weapons weaker as is being suggested in this thread.

    What?

    First of all, see my comment above for having to re-grind for weapons, all because Zenimax nerfed them and doesn't want to revert those nerfs.

    Second, what choice are you talking about? Why would the weapons get weaker? This thread is not talking about going back to the unique enchants, it is talking about reapplying the 1pc bonuses through the new sets. What you're talking about is completely and utterly irrelevant.
  • idk
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    No offense but that sounds like nothing but a cheap excuse to me. They had no problems removing those bonuses from them in the first place. I'm pretty sure they can easily revert the changes. And fix the vMA 2h dot while at it, preferably before 2023 or something.
    I like the idea of perfected weapons dropping with a higher challenge than just clearing the content as it is now. I like the idea of letting us keep the choice to enchant the weapons and providing us a little more. That is certainly better than making the weapons weaker as is being suggested in this thread.

    What?

    First of all, see my comment above for having to re-grind for weapons, all because Zenimax nerfed them and doesn't want to revert those nerfs.

    Second, what choice are you talking about? Why would the weapons get weaker? This thread is not talking about going back to the unique enchants, it is talking about reapplying the 1pc bonuses through the new sets. What you're talking about is completely and utterly irrelevant.

    I think there would be no question if you took a look at what you edited out because it was inconvenient for your comment here.

    Simply put, vMA bow and staves are stronger today than before they made the change. Scroll up and you will see a great comparison using a vMA bow.

    I do understand not wanting to have to regrind the weapons again. However, I am merely pointing out how they will probably do it based on how Zos has handled adding similar gear over the past two years with the advent of imperfect weapons available at all difficulty levels and perfect available from the more challenging content.

    I understand it is inconvenient, but probably more likely that this way.
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    idk wrote: »
    jcm2606 wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    Masel wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    OP is correct that that all 2H weapons provide 2 pieces of set bonus. However, with the special weapons they all require 2 pieces to get the bonus. Even the DW weapons no longer work as a single. Basically we already get 2pc set bonus from vMA, Master and other weapons of this type.

    What we can hope for, and should be requesting, is that these weapons be made available to the normal difficulty levels such as nDSA and nMA just like AS weapons. Then the perfect weapons be provided by clearing vet with some additional requirement such as a no sigil vMA run would grand the perfect MA weapon, otherwise it would be the imperfect weapon.

    Read the 2nd post of this thread. It sounds like ZOS doesn't want to commit to adding new difficulty levels. If that still holds true, then for now I'd rather they restore the bonuses they took away from VMA weapons and add bonuses for other arena weapons.

    They didnt say they dont wanna commit, just that if they ever did it, it would require that additional dungeon work. Problem is if i'd have to redo all that old stuff just to get that bonus.... I'm not sure whether I'd like that idea.

    Would we have to redo all that old stuff? Wouldn't the bonus automatically be applied to existing VMA and Dragonstar Arena weapons because they're only available from vet content? If someone owns them, then they already did the harder content that rewards the bonus, right?

    They said that implementing these weapons with a 1pc bonus would require them to come from a higher level of difficulty, so yes thats what would happen.

    No offense but that sounds like nothing but a cheap excuse to me. They had no problems removing those bonuses from them in the first place. I'm pretty sure they can easily revert the changes. And fix the vMA 2h dot while at it, preferably before 2023 or something.
    I like the idea of perfected weapons dropping with a higher challenge than just clearing the content as it is now. I like the idea of letting us keep the choice to enchant the weapons and providing us a little more. That is certainly better than making the weapons weaker as is being suggested in this thread.

    What?

    First of all, see my comment above for having to re-grind for weapons, all because Zenimax nerfed them and doesn't want to revert those nerfs.

    Second, what choice are you talking about? Why would the weapons get weaker? This thread is not talking about going back to the unique enchants, it is talking about reapplying the 1pc bonuses through the new sets. What you're talking about is completely and utterly irrelevant.

    I think there would be no question if you took a look at what you edited out because it was inconvenient for your comment here.

    Simply put, vMA bow and staves are stronger today than before they made the change. Scroll up and you will see a great comparison using a vMA bow.

    I do understand not wanting to have to regrind the weapons again. However, I am merely pointing out how they will probably do it based on how Zos has handled adding similar gear over the past two years with the advent of imperfect weapons available at all difficulty levels and perfect available from the more challenging content.

    I understand it is inconvenient, but probably more likely that this way.

    Because the old ones had their bonuses as enchants, so of course if you were to replace the old bonus of 245 with a proc-based bonus of 452, the new weapons will parse better. The point is, the OP is not talking about going back to enchants. The OP is talking about adding that old 245 bonus back into the set as a 1pc bonus.

    Functionally, you'll have the same thing you have now -- the set's proc and the 452 weapon damage coming from the weapon damage enchant -- but you'll also have an additional 245 weapon damage on top of that. So, no matter which way you cut it, adding the old bonus of 245 onto the set is a buff. Hell, we don't even need the exact value of 245 or whatever was on the weapon prior to the set introduction if it wasn't weapon damage. Just give us what was used on the BRP weapons, and call it a day.

    That is why I left everything out. Because you've completely misunderstood what the OP meant, interpreting it as somehow going back to the enchant, and so all of your comparisons were based on the assumption that it would go back to the enchant. Everything you said was completely irrelevant, because your assumption is flat out wrong. That is why I left everything out, not because it was inconvenient, but because it is literally irrelevant.
    Edited by jcm2606 on January 12, 2019 12:31PM
  • jcm2606
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    In your defense, your points would have been true prior to Murkmire. Looking at the weapons bonus-for-bonus, assuming you swapped out the special enchant for a regular weapon damage enchant, it would be a buff.

    Since Murkmire, though, since the introduction of the Blackrose weapons, it isn't a buff. Consider that the Perfected Blackrose weapons, the weapons you get from vBRP, have their primary bonus, and can hold a regular weapon damage enchant, just like other special weapons. However, unlike other special weapons, the Perfected Blackrose weapons also offer minor secondary bonuses, making them unique in that regard.

    That, is what this thread is about. Not because the vMA/vDSA weapons were nerfed, but because of the discrepancy between the vMA/vDSA/vAS weapons, and the vBRP weapons. The vBRP weapons contain secondary bonuses that put them in a unique position from the other weapons, similar secondary bonuses to the ones removed from the vMA/vDSA weapons.

    So, yes, vMA/vDSA weapons are now stronger than they were before they were changed to sets, but the vBRP weapons offer what the vMA/vDSA weapons used to offer, meaning the entire removal was pointless. Zenimax doesn't care about the extra stats, they don't care about them potentially making the weapons stronger, because they put them into the new weapons.

    The Perfected Blackrose weapons are also not unique compared to other special weapons. As I said, it's not like there's Normal BRP, Veteran BRP, Insane Mode BRP. There's just Normal & Veteran BRP. It's the same difficulty "options" as the content the other special weapons originate from, there's nothing unique here. So, I don't buy the whole "we need to add an extra level of difficulty" excuse. There's no reason to. Adding another difficulty serves no purpose other than to elongate the grind for something that was previously available with the special weapons, and was wrongfully added to the new special weapons while neglecting the old ones. That's not good enough.
  • idk
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    You seem to be confused with what I have been saying or you are finally agreeing with me since your example of BRP weapons is exactly what I have been saying is likely to occur with the old arena weapons. The perfect weapons offer a little more than the imperfect weapons. Obviously they will take an enchant.

    Also, not sure where you are getting this insane mode BRP from, but whatev. I am not suggested a new level of difficulty be added to the older arenas, but that the existing weapons be offered in normal (and possibly vet). Getting the new perfected master/MA weapons would at the least require vet if not vet with a cherry on top like a no sigil run or something like that.

    I would really suggest you read my first post in this thread. It seems you missed it. BTW, it was the OP that brought up the idea of Zos considering updating the weapons but that it would require additional dungeon work.

    Have fun.
  • jcm2606
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    You seem to be confused with what I have been saying or you are finally agreeing with me since your example of BRP weapons is exactly what I have been saying is likely to occur with the old arena weapons. The perfect weapons offer a little more than the imperfect weapons. Obviously they will take an enchant.

    I've been talking in relation to the comment I originally replied to, nothing more. Specifically, on the comparisons between the old special weapons, where the bonuses were on enchants, and the new ones, where the bonuses are on sets.
    Also, not sure where you are getting this insane mode BRP from, but whatev. I am not suggested a new level of difficulty be added to the older arenas, but that the existing weapons be offered in normal (and possibly vet). Getting the new perfected master/MA weapons would at the least require vet if not vet with a cherry on top like a no sigil run or something like that.

    That was in relation to Masel mentioning Zenimax not reintroducing the 1pc bonuses without a higher difficulty level. My point was that BRP doesn't have some new difficulty level where the Perfected weapons only drop from, the Perfected weapons drop from the regular Veteran mode, so there's no reason to introduce a higher difficulty level for the older content.

    Perfected Blackrose comes from vBRP, so there's no reason to not retroactively convert all existing vMA/vDSA weapons to "Perfected" versions, since they only drop from vMA/vDSA. Well, there is a reason, and that's simply to fit a new carrot on a stick to keep people playing the old content, without really going back and refreshing it. Reintroducing the 1pc bonuses to vMA/vDSA weapons, except under some new difficulty mode or "challenge", is frankly worse than not reintroducing them at all.
    I would really suggest you read my first post in this thread. It seems you missed it. BTW, it was the OP that brought up the idea of Zos considering updating the weapons but that it would require additional dungeon work.

    As I said, my comments to you have been in relation to the comment I originally replied to, not your initial comment. In fact, my reply to your initial comment is actually what I said above: vBRP is just a regular veteran arena, so there's no reason to reintroduce the 1pc bonuses under some new difficulty mode or "challenge"; there's no reason not to just retroactively reintroduce the 1pc bonus to all existing vMA/vDSA weapons, add Perfected as a prefix, throw in the old versions in normal, and call it a day, except that wouldn't fit Zenimax's agenda of trying to make people grind the *** out of these weapons that they already had a little over half a year ago.
    Edited by jcm2606 on January 12, 2019 1:28PM
  • idk
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    You seem to be confused with what I have been saying or you are finally agreeing with me since your example of BRP weapons is exactly what I have been saying is likely to occur with the old arena weapons. The perfect weapons offer a little more than the imperfect weapons. Obviously they will take an enchant.

    I've been talking in relation to the comment I originally replied to, nothing more. Specifically, on the comparisons between the old special weapons, where the bonuses were on enchants, and the new ones, where the bonuses are on sets.
    Also, not sure where you are getting this insane mode BRP from, but whatev. I am not suggested a new level of difficulty be added to the older arenas, but that the existing weapons be offered in normal (and possibly vet). Getting the new perfected master/MA weapons would at the least require vet if not vet with a cherry on top like a no sigil run or something like that.

    That was in relation to Masel mentioning Zenimax not reintroducing the 1pc bonuses without a higher difficulty level. My point was that BRP doesn't have some new difficulty level where the Perfected weapons only drop from, the Perfected weapons drop from the regular Veteran mode, so there's no reason to introduce a higher difficulty level for the older content.

    Perfected Blackrose comes from vBRP, so there's no reason to not retroactively convert all existing vMA/vDSA weapons to "Perfected" versions, since they only drop from vMA/vDSA. Well, there is a reason, and that's simply to fit a new carrot on a stick to keep people playing the old content, without really going back and refreshing it. Reintroducing the 1pc bonuses to vMA/vDSA weapons, except under some new difficulty mode or "challenge", is frankly worse than not reintroducing them at all.
    I would really suggest you read my first post in this thread. It seems you missed it. BTW, it was the OP that brought up the idea of Zos considering updating the weapons but that it would require additional dungeon work.

    As I said, my comments to you have been in relation to the comment I originally replied to, not your initial comment. In fact, my reply to your initial comment is actually what I said above: vBRP is just a regular veteran arena, so there's no reason to reintroduce the 1pc bonuses under some new difficulty mode or "challenge"; there's no reason not to just retroactively reintroduce the 1pc bonus to all existing vMA/vDSA weapons, add Perfected as a prefix, throw in the old versions in normal, and call it a day, except that wouldn't fit Zenimax's agenda of trying to make people grind the *** out of these weapons that they already had a little over half a year ago.

    Actually your first reply had to do with both the desire to not have to regrind the weapons and confusion of how the vMA weapons became stronger, which I clearly pointed out the math of those weapons today vs before Zos made the change. You edited out that comparison even though you directly replied to it.

    Regardless, I expect Zos to add something to the older arena weapons but in creating a new perfected weapon as I stated, not reverting to the old enchantment and as I have stated, I expect when they do what we will have to accomplish something a little extra in vet. Of course that is just a guess and I really can care less if you agree.
  • gepe87
    gepe87
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    Flat stat bonus for older content. It shouldn't be difficult for zos to do it and players will be happy.
    Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General

    If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    I can understand your point but VMA weapons are mostly use don Backbar and hardly any advantage bonus.

    Real winner are may be VDSA weapons those are mostly used on Front Bar.
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on January 21, 2019 2:05PM
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @Lord_Dexter , vMA dual wield is used on front bar and used to be viable, it's just Cruel Flurry was out of relevance for long time - first with galore of bugs, then Summerset buffed 5/5/2 setups compared to the arena DW.
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    @Lord_Dexter , vMA dual wield is used on front bar and used to be viable, it's just Cruel Flurry was out of relevance for long time - first with galore of bugs, then Summerset buffed 5/5/2 setups compared to the arena DW.

    No one use VMA Dual Wield its hardly have any use in PVE!

    Give me one good streamer using this build!
  • Secilina
    Secilina
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    they used to have a second effect and zos removed it if they want to add it back it wouldnt be hard they just dont want to as far as i can tell
  • John_Falstaff
    John_Falstaff
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    @Lord_Dexter , Xynode has an off-meta, but still good build with it. But that's the point, vMA DW used to be meta in PvE, basically - until there were nerfs (still in place), bugs (most fixed in Summerset) and relative improvement of other setups. So saying "vMA weapons don't have a use on front bar hence they don't need 1pc bonus" is confusing cause and consequence.
  • Dreyloch
    Dreyloch
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    TheYKcid wrote: »
    The only official response received so far, indirectly conveyed via our class rep @Masel, was that ZOS is open to the idea (clearly, given how vBRP weapons were designed), but is holding-off as implementing it would require "additional dungeon work":

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5515406/#Comment_5515406

    This was assumed to mean they are afraid of having to implement new difficulty modes in the existing vet arenas to award the "new" weapon variants with a 1pc stat bonus.

    You don't need to. Existing vet Arena weapons already deserve the bonus. Just slap it on and call it a day. This would merely be equating them with all other common, generic 5/5/2 sets, which is absolutely justified given how much harder to obtain they are.

    If you absolutely insist on standardisation of arena rewards, simply add the current iterations of Arena weps (without a 1pc bonus) as a reward for the normal instances of said arenas.

    Minimal work required, and the problem would be effectively solved.

    "Additional dungeon work"!?!? So ZoS means to say, we would have to add the stat line, then redo the itemization list. Now going off how long it took them (over 3 months to be exact) to change the PvP rewards of the worthy bags. We're looking at mid-year if they even started on it already. I just can't comprehend why it takes so long to implement ANYthing in this game. Other companies can turn this stuff around within a month. =(
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    No mention in the PTS notes, sigh.

    Going to keep this thread alive nonetheless, to keep the pressure on ZOS.
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar ChalhoubRedguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    TheYKcid wrote: »
    No mention in the PTS notes, sigh.

    Going to keep this thread alive nonetheless, to keep the pressure on ZOS.

    Yes, good call. The solution you mentioned earlier in the thread is both simple and makes perfect sense.
    TheYKcid wrote: »
    The only official response received so far, indirectly conveyed via our class rep @Masel, was that ZOS is open to the idea (clearly, given how vBRP weapons were designed), but is holding-off as implementing it would require "additional dungeon work":

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5515406/#Comment_5515406

    This was assumed to mean they are afraid of having to implement new difficulty modes in the existing vet arenas to award the "new" weapon variants with a 1pc stat bonus.

    You don't need to. Existing vet Arena weapons already deserve the bonus. Just slap it on and call it a day. This would merely be equating them with all other common, generic 5/5/2 sets, which is absolutely justified given how much harder to obtain they are.

    If you absolutely insist on standardisation of arena rewards, simply add the current iterations of Arena weps (without a 1pc bonus) as a reward for the normal instances of said arenas.

    Minimal work required, and the problem would be effectively solved.
  • satanio
    satanio
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    Hey guys, look what's in latest notes from class rep & ZoS meeting:
    Arena Weapons: Reevaluating these are “on the radar.” ZOS knows they need adjustment.

    Bright future?
    Current public stam parses on Iron Atro so far (esologs)
    DW&Bow
    DW&2H
    2H&Bow
    Bow&Bow

    Current public mag parses on Iron Atro (esologs)
    (non cheese)
    ESOLEAKS CASUALTIES:
    Checkmath
    Tasear
    RIP
  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    Awesome find @satanio!

    While it doesn't sound like we'll be seeing changes in time for update 21 (or even update 22, since adjustments being implemented by then were specifically mentioned), it's nice to hear that the issue is at least on the table. I will keep making my threads until then, lol.
    Edited by TheYKcid on February 3, 2019 1:41PM
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar ChalhoubRedguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    So update 22 didn't see any mention of updates. I hope when the do a pass on weapon skill lines they'll toss arena weapon updates in there.
  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
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    Flurry is getting a buff in Update 22. Will vMA DW builds be good again?
    Give all classes access to a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    please don't nerf my newly-acquired vDSA 2H Axe... those will be sweeeeeeet with the new Cleave buff in U22...

    a buff would be nice too.
    Flurry is getting a buff in Update 22. Will vMA DW builds be good again?
    yes. Flurry is quite a badass now in PTS. vMA DW would be interesting.
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • TheYKcid
    TheYKcid
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    Davadin wrote: »
    please don't nerf my newly-acquired vDSA 2H Axe... those will be sweeeeeeet with the new Cleave buff in U22...

    a buff would be nice too.
    Flurry is getting a buff in Update 22. Will vMA DW builds be good again?
    yes. Flurry is quite a badass now in PTS. vMA DW would be interesting.

    @Davadin

    I don't think anyone intends to nerf it lol. This thread is in fact calling for a 1pc stat bonus to be added to them, in-line with the current format of arena weps as seen with the perfected BRP ones.

    New Cleave with Master's 2H is gonna be great though. I have some math on Discord showing how it would be comparable to Surprise Attack even against a single target, given the same, reasonable build stats.

    The only problem (very similar to Master's Destro) is that you lose 2 bonuses on your frontbar in the process, so you'll never have nearly the same stats to scale-off with these setups, and thus lower tooltips—which is essentially the problem I presented in the OP.
    Edited by TheYKcid on May 1, 2019 4:35PM
    PC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
    Kalazar ChalhoubRedguard Nord Stamplar
    Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
    Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden
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