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Interesting comparison with For Honor
Swomp23
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So, this morning I read an article in my french newspaper about how For Honor saved themselves from a catastrophic launch. You can read it here, just translate it with Google.
https://www.lapresse.ca/techno/jeux-video/201811/19/01-5204720-la-mission-sauver-for-honor.php
To be fair, I didn't play For Honor since alpha. It seemed interesting, but the lag was killing what was supposed to be a fast, complex action game (similar to ESO's pvp and hard pve content). Although it's normal to be super laggy in alpha, early reviews said it wasn't better at launch, so I never bothered buying it.
That's where this article becomes interesting, from an ESO player point of view. They started doing weekly streams with devs, and actually listened to their players. They invested in dedicated servers, because they understood their game couldn't live with lag. Almost 2 years after launch, they still have 250 people working on that game, fixing stuff. Now, like I said, I didn't play this game since before launch, so I don't know if this game is as great as this article says, (Ubisoft studio is in Montreal, this newspaper is in Montreal, you know, grain of salt and all this), but I think this studio's mindset could be inspiring for ZOS.
@Mods. I'm sorry if this thread is against ToS (I honestly don't know), but I thought it was a nice answers to @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post here last week.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5611088#Comment_5611088
I know you started doing podcasts and all this, and you have a nice class rep program, but I think you are still lacking in the listening part. There's a sentence that I like a lot, that I'll try to translate as well as I can : You give the car keys to (the players) and let them go. I agree you still need to control the general direction of the game, but I think a step in this direction would be hugely benificial for ESO.
Another point that struck me was the amount of energy they put on fixing lag and bugs (still according to this article). Personnally, I think a future upgrade completly dedicated to fixing lag and bugs, instead of dishing out new content, would be very helpful.
https://www.lapresse.ca/techno/jeux-video/201811/19/01-5204720-la-mission-sauver-for-honor.php
To be fair, I didn't play For Honor since alpha. It seemed interesting, but the lag was killing what was supposed to be a fast, complex action game (similar to ESO's pvp and hard pve content). Although it's normal to be super laggy in alpha, early reviews said it wasn't better at launch, so I never bothered buying it.
That's where this article becomes interesting, from an ESO player point of view. They started doing weekly streams with devs, and actually listened to their players. They invested in dedicated servers, because they understood their game couldn't live with lag. Almost 2 years after launch, they still have 250 people working on that game, fixing stuff. Now, like I said, I didn't play this game since before launch, so I don't know if this game is as great as this article says, (Ubisoft studio is in Montreal, this newspaper is in Montreal, you know, grain of salt and all this), but I think this studio's mindset could be inspiring for ZOS.
@Mods. I'm sorry if this thread is against ToS (I honestly don't know), but I thought it was a nice answers to @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post here last week.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5611088#Comment_5611088
I know you started doing podcasts and all this, and you have a nice class rep program, but I think you are still lacking in the listening part. There's a sentence that I like a lot, that I'll try to translate as well as I can : You give the car keys to (the players) and let them go. I agree you still need to control the general direction of the game, but I think a step in this direction would be hugely benificial for ESO.
Another point that struck me was the amount of energy they put on fixing lag and bugs (still according to this article). Personnally, I think a future upgrade completly dedicated to fixing lag and bugs, instead of dishing out new content, would be very helpful.
XBox One - NA
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richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just like they did a Homestead patch and a T1 patch that were both free (albeit homestead lead to selling houses) I would not take issue at all if the next patch of such magnitude was an overhaul, no content, but large overhaul of the bugs and lag issues in the game. Along with a file reduction of game size. Spring Clean patch.7 -
Swomp23✭✭✭✭Just like they did a Homestead patch and a T1 patch that were both free (albeit homestead lead to selling houses) I would not take issue at all if the next patch of such magnitude was an overhaul, no content, but large overhaul of the bugs and lag issues in the game. Along with a file reduction of game size. Spring Clean patch.
We already found the name!XBox One - NA1 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭Another point that struck me was the amount of energy they put on fixing lag and bugs (still according to this article). Personnally, I think a future upgrade completly dedicated to fixing lag and bugs, instead of dishing out new content, would be very helpful.
I've been saying this for months because it's just so true. The game is at a point where i feel a huge portion of the player base would not care at all if we skipped a content DLC and had a patch that focused on bug fixes and performance.
The marketing team at ZoS (or whoever) seems so focused on short term gain instead of longevity, and i dont understand why. unfortunately, i get the same response from some players when i say that they need to take a quarter off and work on the infrastructure.
"Oh WeLl DoTtZ a BuG anD PeRfOrMaNcE PaTcH DoEsNt MaKe ThEm MoNey." That's just blatantly false.
By having a game that runs smoother with less bugs and less lag, your players are more likely to play the game longer term. The goal of ZoS's entire business model here is to keep players playing. The more they play, the more likely they are to buy ESO plus, crowns, future DLCs and chapters, etc. If people are quitting because of performance, you now lost that customer and you can no longer make money from them.
You wont make money instantly with a bug fix patch - although i argue a lot of old players may return but i digress - but you are investing in your long term profits. Since you will have significantly better customer retention, you will in turn be increasing the likelihood that that customer will spend money long term.
No matter how fun a game is, players can only tolerate so many performance bugs and issues before they reach a breaking point.
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Swomp23✭✭✭✭@Dottzgaming that's why I found that article so interesting. Apparently, Ubisoft chose this path when their core players pointed out the non-viability of a fast-paced pvp action game with huge lag. According to that article and other reviews I saw online, it paid greatly in the long-term.
As awesome as ESO is, I think that this is precisely where ZOS failed the hardest.Edited by Swomp23 on November 19, 2018 6:04PMXBox One - NA3 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭@Dottzgaming that's why I found that article so interesting. Apparently, Ubisoft chose this path when their core players pointed out the non-viability of a fast-paced pvp action game with huge lag. According to that article and other reviews I saw online, it paid greatly in the long-term.
As awesome as ESO is, I think that this is precisely where ZOS failed the hardest.
Totally agree. Hopefully, we can see change in the future.0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can see asking to make fewer base game changes in the free Update and instead focus more on getting as many backlogged issues resolved as possible so that those issues don't possibly affect future Updates.
But this is just another thread asking to sacrifice narrative content, which has some interdependence with the free Update but is not the same thing as the free Update. For Honor is a tangential analogy that the OP admits to having no real experience with.
But let's work with it. For Honor didn't sacrifice content, either. There's a Marching Fire free update, a Marching Fire content addition, and some cash shop items.
The OP article never said 250 people fixing things, just that "250 people are still working on this game." It suggests the game went through a 20 month overhaul and that "It's not the same game anymore", which really has nothing do with ESO's quarterly schedule.
So if you're looking for evidence to disrupt that schedule, you're not going to find it in this thread.signing off0 -
Swomp23✭✭✭✭I can see asking to make fewer base game changes in the free Update and instead focus more on getting as many backlogged issues resolved as possible so that those issues don't possibly affect future Updates.
But this is just another thread asking to sacrifice narrative content, which has some interdependence with the free Update but is not the same thing as the free Update. For Honor is a tangential analogy that the OP admits to having no real experience with.
But let's work with it. For Honor didn't sacrifice content, either. There's a Marching Fire free update, a Marching Fire content addition, and some cash shop items.
The OP article never said 250 people fixing things, just that "250 people are still working on this game." It suggests the game went through a 20 month overhaul and that "It's not the same game anymore", which really has nothing do with ESO's quarterly schedule.
So if you're looking for evidence to disrupt that schedule, you're not going to find it in this thread.
True, Marching Fire looks like a pretty big content update. But the way I understand it, they have such great reviews of this DLC because they fixed much of the base game issues before releasing content upgrades.
Tbf, For Honor always had e-sport in it's crosshair. No e-sport can exist with lag. But that raises an interesting question. With performances as smooth as a baby's butt skin, do you think ESO pvp could have made it to e-sport competitions? Imo, the speed and complexity of it's combat could have allowed it.Edited by Swomp23 on November 19, 2018 7:16PMXBox One - NA1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can see asking to make fewer base game changes in the free Update and instead focus more on getting as many backlogged issues resolved as possible so that those issues don't possibly affect future Updates.
But this is just another thread asking to sacrifice narrative content, which has some interdependence with the free Update but is not the same thing as the free Update. For Honor is a tangential analogy that the OP admits to having no real experience with.
But let's work with it. For Honor didn't sacrifice content, either. There's a Marching Fire free update, a Marching Fire content addition, and some cash shop items.
The OP article never said 250 people fixing things, just that "250 people are still working on this game." It suggests the game went through a 20 month overhaul and that "It's not the same game anymore", which really has nothing do with ESO's quarterly schedule.
So if you're looking for evidence to disrupt that schedule, you're not going to find it in this thread.
True, Marching Fire looks like a pretty big content update. But the way I understand it, they have such great reviews of this DLC because they fixed much of the base game issues before releasing content upgrades.
Tbf, For Honor always had e-sport in it's crosshair. No e-sport can exist with lag. But that raises an interesting question. With performances as smooth as a baby's butt skin, do you think ESO pvp could have made it to e-sport competitions? Imo, the speed and complexity of it's combat could have allowed it.
imo ESO have dont chance for e-sport by 2 mianly things:
1)proc sets and other which can creat cheese build (procs, enchant builds, bleed builds etc)
2)to huge problem with balance between classes atleast in pvp
like jsut for example stamnb is since many patches and how was templar nerfed and nerfed patch over patch and templar was worse and worse until finally 1st good changes (since hmmmm, year? 2 years?) now in murkmire and only good changes in overall
EDIT: ZOS should fully change their balance team for atleast our class representatives who know what is going but are ignored by ZOS in terms of balance changesEdited by Edziu on November 19, 2018 10:20PM1
