DanteMR1995 wrote: »15k health -> 20k with battle spirit...
Shields limited to 50% of health, so 10k dmg shields...
Shield tooltip cut by 50% with battle spirit...
Therefore, you would need a 20k tooltip on your damage shield, without battle spirit, in order to be able to hit the cap with battle spirit... I don't know how anyone could get enough magicka for a damage shield that strong. If anything this is a buff to damage shields, as now they stack with major defense buffs right?
I'm only asking because maybe I've never had a damage shield that great as a magicka user. If it's possible to easily exceed that, what sets are meta for magicka users?
DanteMR1995 wrote: »15k health -> 20k with battle spirit...
Shields limited to 50% of health, so 10k dmg shields...
Shield tooltip cut by 50% with battle spirit...
Therefore, you would need a 20k tooltip on your damage shield, without battle spirit, in order to be able to hit the cap with battle spirit... I don't know how anyone could get enough magicka for a damage shield that strong. If anything this is a buff to damage shields, as now they stack with major defense buffs right?
I'm only asking because maybe I've never had a damage shield that great as a magicka user. If it's possible to easily exceed that, what sets are meta for magicka users?
They changed how Battle spirit affects shields, its calculated before now.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
So did a quick calc. A night blade with 5000 wd 38k stam, and 4000 pen has an incap tooltip of about 19k. With 80% crit damage against your physical and crit resistances then you should take 14% more damage with a crit and 24% less damage against a non crit compared to premurkmire. This is a rough estimate if the interaction now. Bleeds are just stronger though, so there is that.
Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
So did a quick calc. A night blade with 5000 wd 38k stam, and 4000 pen has an incap tooltip of about 19k. With 80% crit damage against your physical and crit resistances then you should take 14% more damage with a crit and 24% less damage against a non crit compared to premurkmire. This is a rough estimate if the interaction now. Bleeds are just stronger though, so there is that.
@BlackMadara
What stamblade runs with 4k pen? That is an absurdly low number, especially considering your spammable gives you major fracture, not to mention, a decent chunk of them are running spriggans...
BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
So did a quick calc. A night blade with 5000 wd 38k stam, and 4000 pen has an incap tooltip of about 19k. With 80% crit damage against your physical and crit resistances then you should take 14% more damage with a crit and 24% less damage against a non crit compared to premurkmire. This is a rough estimate if the interaction now. Bleeds are just stronger though, so there is that.
@BlackMadara
What stamblade runs with 4k pen? That is an absurdly low number, especially considering your spammable gives you major fracture, not to mention, a decent chunk of them are running spriggans...
Good point, I was considering the general combo of ambush, incap. And the build I referenced is clever alch, bone pirate. With fracture debuff, crit is 24% more damage, and non crit is 14% less damage. If a sNB is running spriggans and a weapon damage set, they are a really squishy all in one ganker. They are probably going to attck you with shields down anyway, now or premurk you are dead.
The point is, you are weaker against crits, stronger against non crits. Like everyone else.
BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
So did a quick calc. A night blade with 5000 wd 38k stam, and 4000 pen has an incap tooltip of about 19k. With 80% crit damage against your physical and crit resistances then you should take 14% more damage with a crit and 24% less damage against a non crit compared to premurkmire. This is a rough estimate if the interaction now. Bleeds are just stronger though, so there is that.
@BlackMadara
What stamblade runs with 4k pen? That is an absurdly low number, especially considering your spammable gives you major fracture, not to mention, a decent chunk of them are running spriggans...
Good point, I was considering the general combo of ambush, incap. And the build I referenced is clever alch, bone pirate. With fracture debuff, crit is 24% more damage, and non crit is 14% less damage. If a sNB is running spriggans and a weapon damage set, they are a really squishy all in one ganker. They are probably going to attck you with shields down anyway, now or premurk you are dead.
The point is, you are weaker against crits, stronger against non crits. Like everyone else.
Sharpened weapon, my friend. This is now, once again, the best trait. Well, unless you run an infused enchantment build, it seems. Can't say, haven't tested.
But Sharpened outperforms Nirn by a long shot now. With 5k from Fracture, 4k from the plenty CP we have, and 3k from Sharpened, you have fully penetrated a light user's 10k physical, plus almost half of the Major Resolve buff.
Keeping up the buff for 4-5% mitigation is a rough deal if you're not a Nightblade. And on the other side, wasting 3-4% damage on overpenetration against an opponent NOT keeping up the buff is not much of a sacrifice.
Spriggan's isn't even needed. But if you do run it, you can put more penetration CP points into other damage stars (Shattering Blows), potentially becoming very nasty. I would conclude (cautiously, as I haven't tested yet), that light armor shield users did take a noticeable hit, crit and non-crit received. It's just very easy and efficient to build for damage now. The interesting choice between Sharpened and Nirn is gone. But we already know from Crystal Frags, that whenever ZOS want to diversify build choices, like Frags vs Blast, they utterly destroy one choice instead and create a new meta. Thanks, Eric, btw, have been enjoying my last year of Master Flame Reach meta...
@MalagenR The NB will have to give up everything to touch those stats. Zero sustain, zero mitigation, raw damage gank build. These builds can kill any non-tank in matter of seconds, but die to the slight touch. 12k-15k is the usual tooltip.It's *** utter BS that NB get a tooltip ultimate that can hit for 19k... That is so absurd. It's instant cast from melee range so hard to doge / block - how the hell are we supposed to survive any competent player?
BlackMadara wrote: »BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
So did a quick calc. A night blade with 5000 wd 38k stam, and 4000 pen has an incap tooltip of about 19k. With 80% crit damage against your physical and crit resistances then you should take 14% more damage with a crit and 24% less damage against a non crit compared to premurkmire. This is a rough estimate if the interaction now. Bleeds are just stronger though, so there is that.
@BlackMadara
What stamblade runs with 4k pen? That is an absurdly low number, especially considering your spammable gives you major fracture, not to mention, a decent chunk of them are running spriggans...
Good point, I was considering the general combo of ambush, incap. And the build I referenced is clever alch, bone pirate. With fracture debuff, crit is 24% more damage, and non crit is 14% less damage. If a sNB is running spriggans and a weapon damage set, they are a really squishy all in one ganker. They are probably going to attck you with shields down anyway, now or premurk you are dead.
The point is, you are weaker against crits, stronger against non crits. Like everyone else.
Sharpened weapon, my friend. This is now, once again, the best trait. Well, unless you run an infused enchantment build, it seems. Can't say, haven't tested.
But Sharpened outperforms Nirn by a long shot now. With 5k from Fracture, 4k from the plenty CP we have, and 3k from Sharpened, you have fully penetrated a light user's 10k physical, plus almost half of the Major Resolve buff.
Keeping up the buff for 4-5% mitigation is a rough deal if you're not a Nightblade. And on the other side, wasting 3-4% damage on overpenetration against an opponent NOT keeping up the buff is not much of a sacrifice.
Spriggan's isn't even needed. But if you do run it, you can put more penetration CP points into other damage stars (Shattering Blows), potentially becoming very nasty. I would conclude (cautiously, as I haven't tested yet), that light armor shield users did take a noticeable hit, crit and non-crit received. It's just very easy and efficient to build for damage now. The interesting choice between Sharpened and Nirn is gone. But we already know from Crystal Frags, that whenever ZOS want to diversify build choices, like Frags vs Blast, they utterly destroy one choice instead and create a new meta. Thanks, Eric, btw, have been enjoying my last year of Master Flame Reach meta...
Not able to atm, I'll actually run the numbers later, but there is a tradeoff. Nirn gives more healing on that bar, and most of the time the dps increase (for pvp) isnt significant. Dont have a specific comparison for sharpened vs nirn, but I do for BSW (630 SD proc) vs spinner (5% spell pen).
On average, bsw proc allows 4% more damage than spinners for my build. No proc then spinners adds 4% more damage (same spell damage with no proc and slightly more max mag due to willpower front bar staff utilizing the utility of having a proc set back bar).
That's on average. Vs a build with 29k spell resist, BSW with proc is 2% more damage, and spinners is 5% more damage without the proc. Due to the nature of pen (flat percentage increase in damage) it is better vs heavier armored targets. Bsw proc also adds about 800 more healing to power lash HoT. Trade offs are there, depending on playstyle, goal, and opponent.
BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BlackMadara wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »So I took my standard sorc build into PVP last night. My shield size was roughly the same. I moved all points out of bastion, and my hardened ward hit the cap and my harness magic was just a hair under it. I used all the points I typically put in bastion and put them into other trees (lots of crit resist). I also made room for boundless (had to drop Dark Conversion). This gave me crit resist of about 2500 (4 pieces of impen, will likely need to go more), and about 18k resistances (again, will probably need to figure out how to get more). Why?
My shields f'ing melted. They were a joke compared to what they used to do.
Pre-patch, my shields were typically enough to survive most 1v1 encounters. They were questionable in 2v1, but usually I could get away. At 3v1, it was a run for you life scenario.
On Live, stam players were dropping my shields 1v1 as fast as I could reapply them. 2v1 put you into about a 4 second shield spam that ended in death. 3v1 and your character just falls over.
TLDR: Even though the numbers are still the same, shields are far weaker than they were a week ago.
Disclaimer: Lag was so f'ing bad in Cyro last night, that admittedly, it'difficult to evaulate things as effectively as I would have liked to. I was also trying to evaluate the new overload. Weaving was near impossible, and because you would often have to spam your ult 2-3 times to get it to activate/deactivate, it became very difficult to control. I would often cast it, nothing would happen, I would cast it again, then it would toggle on off, you would lose two globals, and be right back where you started.
So did a quick calc. A night blade with 5000 wd 38k stam, and 4000 pen has an incap tooltip of about 19k. With 80% crit damage against your physical and crit resistances then you should take 14% more damage with a crit and 24% less damage against a non crit compared to premurkmire. This is a rough estimate if the interaction now. Bleeds are just stronger though, so there is that.
@BlackMadara
What stamblade runs with 4k pen? That is an absurdly low number, especially considering your spammable gives you major fracture, not to mention, a decent chunk of them are running spriggans...
Good point, I was considering the general combo of ambush, incap. And the build I referenced is clever alch, bone pirate. With fracture debuff, crit is 24% more damage, and non crit is 14% less damage. If a sNB is running spriggans and a weapon damage set, they are a really squishy all in one ganker. They are probably going to attck you with shields down anyway, now or premurk you are dead.
The point is, you are weaker against crits, stronger against non crits. Like everyone else.