ZOS promises medium buff, delivers nerf (I may be wrong lol)

montiferus · October 2018

It’s funny how people act like this isn’t a nerf. For those of us who were using medium and dual wield it’s a big nerf. My stamplar is going to be a lot more squishy next patch.

Getting pretty sick of ZOS and their balancing acts. Maybe they should focus I don’t know on actually fixing the performance of the game first. Imbeciles.

Danksta · October 2018

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lucky_dutch wrote: »

Lots of stuff counts as an AoE, you know.

Sub assault, ferocious leap, dawnbreaker, hurricane, steel tornado, puncturing jabs. Pretty much every class besides Nightblades & Magsorcs utilise some form of AoE in their core burst rotation.

Curse and fury both can damage multiple targets so I think they'd be classified as AoE, but it is ZoS so you never know.

thankyourat · October 2018

Daus wrote: »

It's a huge nerf for bad players that unintentionally dodged projectiles, and were saved by RNG dodge. It's a huge buff for skillful players.

Great change.

It's a Nerf for everyone. The passive dodge chance allowed you a bigger offensive window to apply pressure to your opponent. Sure you can actively dodge single target abilities but that means you waste a gcd avoiding abilities instead of doing damage. Where as if you passively dodge an ability you can still keep applying pressure to your opponent. Also the Dodge chance just mitigates much more damage. The only time this could be considered a buff is when playing in a ball group

montiferus · October 2018

Daus wrote: »

It's a huge nerf for bad players that unintentionally dodged projectiles, and were saved by RNG dodge. It's a huge buff for skillful players.

Great change.

Let me get this right. If you played a medium armor build and used shuffle you are a "bad" player? Is that what you are saying?

Thogard · October 2018

Medium armor can no longer stack blade cloak + shuffle since they’re now the same buff.

Prior, BC + shuffle gave more mitigation than heavy armor (albeit not as high healing or mag return). This allowed many builds to be viable with medium

This will no longer be the case.

montiferus · October 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Medium armor can no longer stack blade cloak + shuffle since they’re now the same buff.

Prior, BC + shuffle gave more mitigation than heavy armor (albeit not as high healing or mag return). This allowed many builds to be viable with medium

This will no longer be the case.

Exactly and this is why I am sick of ZOS and their changes. I had a really good medium stamplar build and now I very much doubt it will be viable.

The only thing left thats fun in this game is small scale pvp and I'm sick of having to change my toon up every 3 months because ZOS can't get their act together. Meanwhile on Xbox the game is riddled with performance issues that from my estimation have not substantially improved in the last few years..like at all.

Marcus684 · October 2018

If this will stop the never-ending string of "dodge-dodge-dodge" as I repeatedly throw my rotation of attacks at so many stam builds, I'm all for it. There seem to be so many of these players running around these days that passively dodge 4 out of 5 of my skills with no visible dodge-rolling. Maybe this is ZOS' way of fixing something sketchy about passive dodging, by all but eliminating it.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

Nah this is a slight buff as AoEs are the Bain of a medium user in PvP as they’re undodgeable.

It’s a tiny buff though and still a long way short of what is needed to make medium viable for anything besides NB gank builds.

Brutusmax1mus · October 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

You all should really go test how much it really does in pvp. It's still subject to the same diminishing returns as all other forms of mitigation. Everyone's throwing out 25% this and 25% that.

I wonder where you got the impression that a quarter of damage done to you reduced on paper is not significant in this game? Sure, it maybe calculated so that it isn't full 25% effect but it's still more significant than say what 15% can bring for example. It may be subjected to the diminishing returns but it is still significant.

I never said it wasn't significant. Only that people are reacting with out understanding it's true effect.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

You all should really go test how much it really does in pvp. It's still subject to the same diminishing returns as all other forms of mitigation. Everyone's throwing out 25% this and 25% that.

I think it was mentioned in another thread that when tested it was calculated before other % based mitigations so it will be the full 25% reduction.

That may be the case but threat would mean it diminishes other forms of mitigation.

Go on live, take a aoe hit, pop that and see the difference, it's not nearly 25%

Waffennacht · October 2018

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

You all should really go test how much it really does in pvp. It's still subject to the same diminishing returns as all other forms of mitigation. Everyone's throwing out 25% this and 25% that.

I wonder where you got the impression that a quarter of damage done to you reduced on paper is not significant in this game? Sure, it maybe calculated so that it isn't full 25% effect but it's still more significant than say what 15% can bring for example. It may be subjected to the diminishing returns but it is still significant.

I never said it wasn't significant. Only that people are reacting with out understanding it's true effect.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

You all should really go test how much it really does in pvp. It's still subject to the same diminishing returns as all other forms of mitigation. Everyone's throwing out 25% this and 25% that.

I think it was mentioned in another thread that when tested it was calculated before other % based mitigations so it will be the full 25% reduction.

That may be the case but threat would mean it diminishes other forms of mitigation.

Go on live, take a aoe hit, pop that and see the difference, it's not nearly 25%

In no CP the reduction will be far more significant, especially in medium, and even more so when you consider penetration

Brutusmax1mus · October 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

You all should really go test how much it really does in pvp. It's still subject to the same diminishing returns as all other forms of mitigation. Everyone's throwing out 25% this and 25% that.

I wonder where you got the impression that a quarter of damage done to you reduced on paper is not significant in this game? Sure, it maybe calculated so that it isn't full 25% effect but it's still more significant than say what 15% can bring for example. It may be subjected to the diminishing returns but it is still significant.

I never said it wasn't significant. Only that people are reacting with out understanding it's true effect.

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

You all should really go test how much it really does in pvp. It's still subject to the same diminishing returns as all other forms of mitigation. Everyone's throwing out 25% this and 25% that.

I think it was mentioned in another thread that when tested it was calculated before other % based mitigations so it will be the full 25% reduction.

That may be the case but threat would mean it diminishes other forms of mitigation.

Go on live, take a aoe hit, pop that and see the difference, it's not nearly 25%

In no CP the reduction will be far more significant, especially in medium, and even more so when you consider penetration

That's true. Im excited for its impact, but it's not the end of the world to magplars or aoe builds like people are making it seem.

dsalter · October 2018

Maryal wrote: »

The change to evasion will just spawn a new meta that de-emphasizes AOE damage and focuses more on direct damage and direct damage DOTs. Pressure can still come from layering multiple sources of AOE damage which will still be effective despite major evasion, especially when the AOE has a debuffs (i.e., defile) and/or triggers DOTS (poison, burning, etc. which can, in turn, trigger status effect damage).

This is not a nerf ... it will just change the meta.

its as if they are trying to counter trains but the thing is they need to make an aura of protection style armor set for this to work well since trains can also co-ordinate single target via addons.

leepalmer95 · October 2018

It's 100% overall a nerf.

I agree with random dodge chance needing to go but they could of done something to make up for the defence loss on builds that are already very squishy.

Marcus684 · October 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It's 100% overall a nerf.

I agree with random dodge chance needing to go but they could of done something to make up for the defence loss on builds that are already very squishy.

The solution is actually pretty simple: don't be so squishy. IMO, ZOS is trying to address the very common complaints about high damage/high survivability builds that don't have to make the hard decisions others do. If you read the Developer Comments in the Patch Notes they even spell it out for us. They don't want magsorcs to be able to just dump everything into magicka for high damage AND high survivability, or stam builds to run a glass cannon build and depend on passive dodging to avoid so much damage. Yes these builds had counters (kind of), but they were probably the biggest obstacles to getting newer players to stick around in Cyrodiil past the point where they had gotten Warhorn or whatever Alliance War skill that drew them in. Now they'll just all have to die to bleed builds.

leepalmer95 · October 2018

Marcus684 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

It's 100% overall a nerf.

I agree with random dodge chance needing to go but they could of done something to make up for the defence loss on builds that are already very squishy.

The solution is actually pretty simple: don't be so squishy. IMO, ZOS is trying to address the very common complaints about high damage/high survivability builds that don't have to make the hard decisions others do. If you read the Developer Comments in the Patch Notes they even spell it out for us. They don't want magsorcs to be able to just dump everything into magicka for high damage AND high survivability, or stam builds to run a glass cannon build and depend on passive dodging to avoid so much damage. Yes these builds had counters (kind of), but they were probably the biggest obstacles to getting newer players to stick around in Cyrodiil past the point where they had gotten Warhorn or whatever Alliance War skill that drew them in. Now they'll just all have to die to bleed builds.

Medium wasn't high survivability at all, in fact medium was a high risk, high reward build. You can hit hard but are squishy in return. Medium was a good trade off.

The problem currently is that heavy users can get about the same dmg but with no risks, they're tanky, have better sustain and higher hp. But similar dmg.

Zos have no clue what they're doing. Last patch i absolutely melted anything using shields in pvp with my stam nb/ stamplar this patch is even easier.