The PTS is now offline for the patch 10.0.0 maintenance and is currently unavailable.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
The issue is resolved, and the North American PC/Mac megaserver is now available. Thank you for your patience!
Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• [EXTENDED] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
• [EXTENDED] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
CP needs a rework
prototypefb
✭✭✭✭
healing increases and received and phisical and magickal dmg all should be on same CP tree to further separate dedicated roles/builds aka healer, dd, tanks.
same goes for critical healing increase, critical resistance, increase in physical critical dmg ,increase in magickal critical dmg. there is not a lot of tradeoff for role seperation, passives also could be better in some cases.
as of now dmg boosts healing, which is wrong in the essence, imo healing should be based on magicka or stamina rather than magicka+spell power, stamina+weapon power, overall healing should be increased for dedicated healers but reduced for others(make restoration staff great). also lot of CP trees are messed up.complete rework would be beneficial to overall game, weed out/reduce OP stuff, increase some weak stuff.
same goes for critical healing increase, critical resistance, increase in physical critical dmg ,increase in magickal critical dmg. there is not a lot of tradeoff for role seperation, passives also could be better in some cases.
as of now dmg boosts healing, which is wrong in the essence, imo healing should be based on magicka or stamina rather than magicka+spell power, stamina+weapon power, overall healing should be increased for dedicated healers but reduced for others(make restoration staff great). also lot of CP trees are messed up.complete rework would be beneficial to overall game, weed out/reduce OP stuff, increase some weak stuff.
1
-
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭CP needs more of a rework than that. Needs a complete redesign so it’s not a barrier to entry for new players.
Sub count is only heading in one direction with this system...2 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭cp isn't the problem, there needs to be some progression and the diminishing returns cp provides is fine. a new player should not just log in and be capped.
I believe the issue is us, the players. We min/max and basically come up with builds ZoS did not dream of, then we get annoyed when they are nerfed.
I'd actually like to see armour sets stop scaling with stats, currently the proc on them can vary in power a lot as it runs off a players offensive ability - i've never understood this. A min/maxer will get more out of a set than any new player because they know how to get the most from them.2 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the gameValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake6 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
This.
I can get why people may want to keep it: you’ve invested a lot of time in earning it and you don’t want to see others get for free what you’ve had to work for. It’s a natural human reaction and one I feel myself.
However, being completely pragmatic and thinking about the long-term health of the game, having a (nearly) thousand hour grindwall stand in the way of a new player having a maxed character that can compete in Cyro or vet trials just doesn’t make sense. Most people will be put-off by that kind of investment when coming in late.
I felt it myself around the 300 CP mark. You can now do all the vet dungeons, I quickly had my trial gear and everything golded yet before me lay hundreds of hours more of playtime to reach max CP. Just didn’t make any sense!
Either get rid of it entirely or cap it at 300 (as at least up until then there is a logical progression).1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lucky_dutch wrote: »CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
This.
I can get why people may want to keep it: you’ve invested a lot of time in earning it and you don’t want to see others get for free what you’ve had to work for. It’s a natural human reaction and one I feel myself.
However, being completely pragmatic and thinking about the long-term health of the game, having a (nearly) thousand hour grindwall stand in the way of a new player having a maxed character that can compete in Cyro or vet trials just doesn’t make sense. Most people will be put-off by that kind of investment when coming in late.
I felt it myself around the 300 CP mark. You can now do all the vet dungeons, I quickly had my trial gear and everything golded yet before me lay hundreds of hours more of playtime to reach max CP. Just didn’t make any sense!
Either get rid of it entirely or cap it at 300 (as at least up until then there is a logical progression).
You shouldn't expect to be endgame viable before at least 1000 hours. Every single remotely competitive game takes way more playtime to be considered a somewhat experienced player. You remove the grind. More people will skip learning the game and jump straight to DLC dungeons, vet. trials and PvP. Result would be constant outcry about the difficulty of the content, resulting in dumbing down of the game itself. In PvP, it will encourage zerging more, as raw numbers will cover the lack of experience. Basically, it will open up more of the game for the new players at the cost of old players. People will beat most of the content, get bored and leave without the carrot of a grind.3 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭lucky_dutch wrote: »CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
This.
I can get why people may want to keep it: you’ve invested a lot of time in earning it and you don’t want to see others get for free what you’ve had to work for. It’s a natural human reaction and one I feel myself.
However, being completely pragmatic and thinking about the long-term health of the game, having a (nearly) thousand hour grindwall stand in the way of a new player having a maxed character that can compete in Cyro or vet trials just doesn’t make sense. Most people will be put-off by that kind of investment when coming in late.
I felt it myself around the 300 CP mark. You can now do all the vet dungeons, I quickly had my trial gear and everything golded yet before me lay hundreds of hours more of playtime to reach max CP. Just didn’t make any sense!
Either get rid of it entirely or cap it at 300 (as at least up until then there is a logical progression).
You shouldn't expect to be endgame viable before at least 1000 hours. Every single remotely competitive game takes way more playtime to be considered a somewhat experienced player. You remove the grind. More people will skip learning the game and jump straight to DLC dungeons, vet. trials and PvP. Result would be constant outcry about the difficulty of the content, resulting in dumbing down of the game itself. In PvP, it will encourage zerging more, as raw numbers will cover the lack of experience. Basically, it will open up more of the game for the new players at the cost of old players. People will beat most of the content, get bored and leave without the carrot of a grind.
Name me another MMO where it takes 1000 hours to get a single character PvP competitive or get into a raid. Name me one.
These days wow is probably less than 100 hours from lvl 1 to raiding if you’re smart about it.
In PvE you could argue there’s a more continuous gear grind in other MMOs and there’s some merit to that argument but it’s still less than 1000 hours and in PvP it’s objectively bad to have a large barrier to entry.
If you want this game to gradually die a slow death, keep the CP system as it is.
As to the time = skill argument, I hope I don’t need to explain why that’s wrong. By CP 300 you should have played more than enough to get to grips with the game. By that point you’re going to be close to your own personal skill cap.
The problem with CP is that it works well for people who’ve been in the game a long time and have multiple characters at 50 as it’s cross-character but it’s horrible for a new player who faces an insane time gate to get a single character competitive.Edited by lucky_dutch on October 14, 2018 11:21PM0 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭lucky_dutch wrote: »CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
This.
I can get why people may want to keep it: you’ve invested a lot of time in earning it and you don’t want to see others get for free what you’ve had to work for. It’s a natural human reaction and one I feel myself.
However, being completely pragmatic and thinking about the long-term health of the game, having a (nearly) thousand hour grindwall stand in the way of a new player having a maxed character that can compete in Cyro or vet trials just doesn’t make sense. Most people will be put-off by that kind of investment when coming in late.
I felt it myself around the 300 CP mark. You can now do all the vet dungeons, I quickly had my trial gear and everything golded yet before me lay hundreds of hours more of playtime to reach max CP. Just didn’t make any sense!
Either get rid of it entirely or cap it at 300 (as at least up until then there is a logical progression).
You shouldn't expect to be endgame viable before at least 1000 hours. Every single remotely competitive game takes way more playtime to be considered a somewhat experienced player. You remove the grind. More people will skip learning the game and jump straight to DLC dungeons, vet. trials and PvP. Result would be constant outcry about the difficulty of the content, resulting in dumbing down of the game itself. In PvP, it will encourage zerging more, as raw numbers will cover the lack of experience. Basically, it will open up more of the game for the new players at the cost of old players. People will beat most of the content, get bored and leave without the carrot of a grind.
Wow...1k hours? WowThey nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspectiveValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake4 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There is the non-CP campaign for exactly this reason.
When you have "enough" CP you can go play in the CP campaign.
I don't get why it's an issue for PvP. you can play either campaign, it's a level playing field.
PvE is where CP is broken. Every update we get a little bit more, which is fine for any individual update, but with 4 updates a year it's getting crazy. It's almost at the point where you get all the direct damage, all the dot damage, all the elemental / physical damage and all the crit damage and enough of the penetration.
1 more year of this and no one will be running lover anymore, because there will be so much CP that you can hit max pen through CP with no real trade-off.
12 months ago we would be swapping the red CP for different trials. these days I just throw 66 in think skin and ironhide with 49 in hardy and elemental defender and still have 30 points to put into bastion / quick recovery. In 12 months time? Basically all the mitigation all the time.
CP needs to be dropped in the next 12 months. I don't know or care what it's replaced with, but we're getting close to having all the things all the time, which doesn't make for interesting builds or trade offs.1 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspective
You may be right, CP progression could be an illusion. But the thing is, neither you or anyone else I’ve seen that says the CP system is broken has offered a better solution yet that I’m aware of. We tried the normal VR leveling and that didn’t work. Now you say the CP system is broken and needs to be fixed. So what else can be offered? Lets face it, I doubt seriously that ZOS will get rid of the CP system in it’s entirety. There is too much invested in it by players for them to do that without serious repercussions. About the best they could hope for is to modify the current system.
And although ESO may have been marketed as a PVP MMO originally like you mentioned, that’s certainly not the majority of the players as it stands now.Edited by Ashtaris on October 15, 2018 5:05AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspective
Most people are certainly not at cp cap. Play some group finder dungeons and you will see that.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I believe the issue is us, the players. We min/max and basically come up with builds ZoS did not dream of, then we get annoyed when they are nerfed.
What this actually means is Zos does not understand their game very well. That is the real issue..
Zos also does not think through big changes they make. That has been extremely clear.
Remember that when Zos gave us CP it was to replace vet ranks, but they admittedly did not know how they would actually remove the vet ranks.. They said this much. It took them about 2 years to finally figure that out. Well after they gave us CP. LOL.
To compound the issue, Zos made the CP ceiling the cap. Yes, the cap was the full 3600 CP points and they stated they expected the average player would reach that in less than 2 years time.
Really make you think how much thought Zos puts into these things.
However, I digres and get back to the topic OP started.
The damage components of CP do not enhance healing. I even tested this on the PTS with 2 templar heals and 2 rstaff heals. BoL, Ritual, Regen and Springs.
None saw any changes after adding 49 points into elemental expert. To make sure the hots were not affected by Thaumaturge I added 49 points there as well and no change was seen.
So the healing CP and damage CP are separated and anyone serious about doing damage competitively is not going to be speking for healing just as anyone doing serious healing competitively.
Beyond that, being able to be less optimal and do both has been a hallmark of this game since before it launched. I cannot recall if it was MFirror or PSage that explained (before the game launched, the lines of the trinity would be blurred in this game as people could build to do a little bit of both.
0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'd be fine with either a total reworking of CP entirely or their removal.Argonian forever5 -
lucky_dutch✭✭✭✭It’s also worth pointing out that CP isn’t a satisfying progression system. Small marginal increases is boring. There’s no change of gear to upgrade and enchant, there’s nothing that would cause you to play slightly differently now you’ve progressed to a certain point. You just hit marginally harder and get hit marginally less for every few hours invested in the game. Lame!1
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lucky_dutch wrote: »It’s also worth pointing out that CP isn’t a satisfying progression system. Small marginal increases is boring. There’s no change of gear to upgrade and enchant, there’s nothing that would cause you to play slightly differently now you’ve progressed to a certain point. You just hit marginally harder and get hit marginally less for every few hours invested in the game. Lame!
Change for the sake of changing gear is by no means a rewarding system. Zos does not have the tiered gear that MMORPGs of old have for starters. What ESO does have is a very punishing grind to get gear with weapons being the worst and hardest part.
Zos was not very bright in the first year of this game when it made two pointless level cap increases. The first about a month after the game launched when most had not even reached the original level cap.
They were smart enough to wait awhile before making another level cap increase and that time there was a point. it was to make crafting of gear more costly, require significantly more materials at lvl cap, and therefore changing aspects of both the market and crafting. But nothing concerning gameplay as MMORPGs that utilize a regular lvl cap increase provide.
2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. CP is fine as is.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭lucky_dutch wrote: »lucky_dutch wrote: »CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
This.
I can get why people may want to keep it: you’ve invested a lot of time in earning it and you don’t want to see others get for free what you’ve had to work for. It’s a natural human reaction and one I feel myself.
However, being completely pragmatic and thinking about the long-term health of the game, having a (nearly) thousand hour grindwall stand in the way of a new player having a maxed character that can compete in Cyro or vet trials just doesn’t make sense. Most people will be put-off by that kind of investment when coming in late.
I felt it myself around the 300 CP mark. You can now do all the vet dungeons, I quickly had my trial gear and everything golded yet before me lay hundreds of hours more of playtime to reach max CP. Just didn’t make any sense!
Either get rid of it entirely or cap it at 300 (as at least up until then there is a logical progression).
You shouldn't expect to be endgame viable before at least 1000 hours. Every single remotely competitive game takes way more playtime to be considered a somewhat experienced player. You remove the grind. More people will skip learning the game and jump straight to DLC dungeons, vet. trials and PvP. Result would be constant outcry about the difficulty of the content, resulting in dumbing down of the game itself. In PvP, it will encourage zerging more, as raw numbers will cover the lack of experience. Basically, it will open up more of the game for the new players at the cost of old players. People will beat most of the content, get bored and leave without the carrot of a grind.
Name me another MMO where it takes 1000 hours to get a single character PvP competitive or get into a raid. Name me one.
These days wow is probably less than 100 hours from lvl 1 to raiding if you’re smart about it.
In PvE you could argue there’s a more continuous gear grind in other MMOs and there’s some merit to that argument but it’s still less than 1000 hours and in PvP it’s objectively bad to have a large barrier to entry.
If you want this game to gradually die a slow death, keep the CP system as it is.
As to the time = skill argument, I hope I don’t need to explain why that’s wrong. By CP 300 you should have played more than enough to get to grips with the game. By that point you’re going to be close to your own personal skill cap.
The problem with CP is that it works well for people who’ve been in the game a long time and have multiple characters at 50 as it’s cross-character but it’s horrible for a new player who faces an insane time gate to get a single character competitive.
It takes 6 months plus depending on RNG in Black Desert Online to get a single character PvP ready.0 -
DivineFirstYOLO✭✭✭✭CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
b..bu..but CP allows us to have build diversity
...
... that's why all of those "elite" players are getting carried by meta heavy armor sets like fury/ravager/7h legion.Zerg Squad
Godslayer x 4
Pro questing fees for RPers in Cyrodiil, pay your taxes!
PC - EU0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The VR grind was absolutely awful. The CP system is little better though, and it makes matters worse for being hard to balance. At this post I don’t think they can change much about it, it’s settled to deep in the core now.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Cursa✭✭To be honest you can have a character ready for no-cp pvp in a week or so of play, or if you grind like mad a day or two.
Not much commitment to be at a cap to play pvp content and you can then gain experience as you play there.1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspective
You may be right, CP progression could be an illusion. But the thing is, neither you or anyone else I’ve seen that says the CP system is broken has offered a better solution yet that I’m aware of. We tried the normal VR leveling and that didn’t work. Now you say the CP system is broken and needs to be fixed. So what else can be offered? Lets face it, I doubt seriously that ZOS will get rid of the CP system in it’s entirety. There is too much invested in it by players for them to do that without serious repercussions. About the best they could hope for is to modify the current system.
And although ESO may have been marketed as a PVP MMO originally like you mentioned, that’s certainly not the majority of the players as it stands now.
Why does it need anything to replace it?
People don't offer alternative solutions because we don't need one. Remove CP, cap the game at 50, change all CP160 materials to level 50 materials and either change the rest of the CP materials into tokens that can be sold to vendors for more gold or traded for level 50 mats, and reduce all gear that is above 50 to level 50
After that the game will adjust accordingly for the imbalance that the removal of CP will inevitably create for a short period of time.
Basically, no one needs or wants a replacment for CPValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake2 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspective
You may be right, CP progression could be an illusion. But the thing is, neither you or anyone else I’ve seen that says the CP system is broken has offered a better solution yet that I’m aware of. We tried the normal VR leveling and that didn’t work. Now you say the CP system is broken and needs to be fixed. So what else can be offered? Lets face it, I doubt seriously that ZOS will get rid of the CP system in it’s entirety. There is too much invested in it by players for them to do that without serious repercussions. About the best they could hope for is to modify the current system.
And although ESO may have been marketed as a PVP MMO originally like you mentioned, that’s certainly not the majority of the players as it stands now.
Why does it need anything to replace it?
People don't offer alternative solutions because we don't need one. Remove CP, cap the game at 50, change all CP160 materials to level 50 materials and either change the rest of the CP materials into tokens that can be sold to vendors for more gold or traded for level 50 mats, and reduce all gear that is above 50 to level 50
After that the game will adjust accordingly for the imbalance that the removal of CP will inevitably create for a short period of time.
Basically, no one needs or wants a replacment for CP
No, I believe you are saying YOU don’t need or want a replacement for CP, but not speaking for the rest of us. And like I said earlier, it’s not going to happen. So unless you can offer a viable alternative, it’s just blowing smoke. Like I mentioned earlier, the CP system does need adjustments and modifications, but I do believe it can be saved.
Edited by Ashtaris on October 15, 2018 5:46PM1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspective
You may be right, CP progression could be an illusion. But the thing is, neither you or anyone else I’ve seen that says the CP system is broken has offered a better solution yet that I’m aware of. We tried the normal VR leveling and that didn’t work. Now you say the CP system is broken and needs to be fixed. So what else can be offered? Lets face it, I doubt seriously that ZOS will get rid of the CP system in it’s entirety. There is too much invested in it by players for them to do that without serious repercussions. About the best they could hope for is to modify the current system.
And although ESO may have been marketed as a PVP MMO originally like you mentioned, that’s certainly not the majority of the players as it stands now.
Why does it need anything to replace it?
People don't offer alternative solutions because we don't need one. Remove CP, cap the game at 50, change all CP160 materials to level 50 materials and either change the rest of the CP materials into tokens that can be sold to vendors for more gold or traded for level 50 mats, and reduce all gear that is above 50 to level 50
After that the game will adjust accordingly for the imbalance that the removal of CP will inevitably create for a short period of time.
Basically, no one needs or wants a replacment for CP
No, I believe you are saying YOU don’t need or want a replacement for CP, but not speaking for the rest of us. And like I said earlier, it’s not going to happen. So unless you can offer a viable alternative, it’s just blowing smoke. Like I mentioned earlier, the CP system does need adjustments and modifications, but I do believe it can be saved.
I did offer viable alternatives. Level 50. Done.
You just don't like it. And that's fine. But "nothing" is indeed a viable alternative to "something"
And if you listen to the testimonies who actually know what it was like before CP, the vast majority will say CP destroyed most of the balance ESO had and continues to do so with ZOS nerfing classes as a result of flaws within the CP system.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭One thing i think could be done is keep the champion points but remove the champion points constellations
Instead every tenth point get a level token every 25th get a skill point
Every patch I stead of increasing CP ... Increase base level by X number.
Spend your level tokens so instead of 64 level points you could have 67, 70 etc etc
Next make damage/healing only scale from weapon or skill power.
Max magica increases both resource pool and regen
Balance would be much simpler to maintain0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But if you take away the CP system, you also take away any sense of progression. Do you really expect that someone who is new to the game should be able to get to the same level in a couple of months than someone who has invested a couple of years? There has to be some reward or sense of progression. One thing I think they could do is offer much more diversity in the CP system. For example, being able to put points into crafting so that you can make a special style or type of armor, or perhaps allow you to get to max level enchanting, increase the number of grains from deconstructing jewelry, anything other than just combat related things as the current CP system is by a large majority. At least that would offer some sense of progression for those of us who have been around in the game for quite sometime.
CP is the illusion of progression. Most people are way past CP cap. Those people just get 30 CP every update because they already had it. And it's like that.
Essentially, you're stuck at level cap forever once you get there, and for people who haven't hit cap...well, it's also hard to call 0.1% more damage every "level" anything remotely close to "progression"
People get a greater sense of progression from the new gear that comes out every update than they do from anything about the CP system.
(Plus, in a PvP game, which ESO was originally marketed as, people don't want to "progress." They want to get as powerful as they can and then go out killing, at which point they don't want to stop killing just to play catch-up)
Basically, CP is all an illusion. It adds nothing to the game, and only makes it objectively worse from a game balance perspective
You may be right, CP progression could be an illusion. But the thing is, neither you or anyone else I’ve seen that says the CP system is broken has offered a better solution yet that I’m aware of. We tried the normal VR leveling and that didn’t work. Now you say the CP system is broken and needs to be fixed. So what else can be offered? Lets face it, I doubt seriously that ZOS will get rid of the CP system in it’s entirety. There is too much invested in it by players for them to do that without serious repercussions. About the best they could hope for is to modify the current system.
And although ESO may have been marketed as a PVP MMO originally like you mentioned, that’s certainly not the majority of the players as it stands now.
There have been tons of ideas actually that do give not only an actual sense of proggression, but an actual feeling of customizing ur character as well.Edited by pieratsos on October 15, 2018 6:23PM1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lucky_dutch wrote: »CP needs to disappear. There is no reason for it to be in the game
This.
I can get why people may want to keep it: you’ve invested a lot of time in earning it and you don’t want to see others get for free what you’ve had to work for. It’s a natural human reaction and one I feel myself.
However, being completely pragmatic and thinking about the long-term health of the game, having a (nearly) thousand hour grindwall stand in the way of a new player having a maxed character that can compete in Cyro or vet trials just doesn’t make sense. Most people will be put-off by that kind of investment when coming in late.
I felt it myself around the 300 CP mark. You can now do all the vet dungeons, I quickly had my trial gear and everything golded yet before me lay hundreds of hours more of playtime to reach max CP. Just didn’t make any sense!
Either get rid of it entirely or cap it at 300 (as at least up until then there is a logical progression).
You shouldn't expect to be endgame viable before at least 1000 hours. Every single remotely competitive game takes way more playtime to be considered a somewhat experienced player. You remove the grind. More people will skip learning the game and jump straight to DLC dungeons, vet. trials and PvP. Result would be constant outcry about the difficulty of the content, resulting in dumbing down of the game itself. In PvP, it will encourage zerging more, as raw numbers will cover the lack of experience. Basically, it will open up more of the game for the new players at the cost of old players. People will beat most of the content, get bored and leave without the carrot of a grind.
Wow...1k hours? Wow
LOL, it's not 1000 hours. It takes less than 7 days of in-game time to grind to max CP level. I did it myself with a second account over the course of only two months of real life time. Proof of the time spent is in the chat box:
#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭Diminishing returns had the opposite effect or at least didn't have the effect of front loading really at all. Sure for one star it seems front loaded but the higher cp account that has both thaum and MoA and penetration star pumped up to soft caps they are going to do significantly more damage.
The CP system should be about progression and on the pve side should have scaled linear as it would have actually given more build diversity. Diminishing returns means you just move on to the next star once you reach the soft cap on diminishing returns for the most part. They should make gaining new cp about completing the story content of the new dlc though. Something like psyjic order maybe. That way it isn't just automatic for those already at cap and beyond.
On the pvp side non cp content already addresses this but you could have just battle leveled everyone to max cp too that joins cp enabled pvp. Plus you know, actually make some pvp content that isn't complete *** that caters to cancerous metas like cyro has always favored zerg balls and they messed up BGs so bad they can't even have cp enabled.0
