The Nerf to Speed Pots is a horrible idea; Here's why.

SilverPaws · October 2018

If they would made duration 30 sec then it would be at least fine, but this just

No one will use speed pots now, waste of pot.

Crixus8000 · October 2018

SilverPaws wrote: »

If they would made duration 30 sec then it would be at least fine, but this just
No one will use speed pots now, waste of pot.

Even with 30 seconds I wouldn't use them tbh. I'm thinking of using an invisibilty pot now lol. I might not be able to los but I can hide xD

SilverPaws · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

SilverPaws wrote: »

If they would made duration 30 sec then it would be at least fine, but this just
No one will use speed pots now, waste of pot.

Even with 30 seconds I wouldn't use them tbh. I'm thinking of using an invisibilty pot now lol. I might not be able to los but I can hide xD

Haha, now every stam build disappearing after sight of outnumber

HankTwo · October 2018

SilverPaws wrote: »

If they would made duration 30 sec then it would be at least fine, but this just
No one will use speed pots now, waste of pot.

Agreed, 30s with potion passives would have been fine. Sadly, they chose to overnerf them.

Skooma smuggler is now bis :kappa:

Lord_Eomer · October 2018

Nerf is good, currently its dream to catch anyone running Speed Pots on stam build.

Dreyloch · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Very well said.

As a solo player I hate this so much. When doing 1vx without speed you just die, stand your ground isn't a thing with the amount of damage in pvp right now with things like bleeds and proc sets. If it's a duration nerf ( and it's probably going to be) then it's just pointless to run speed pots because the second that speed falls off your useless.

I tried running without speed pots and it was just terrible. I couldn't escape anything and couldn't hardly land any dizzy swings.

But zos seems to hate solo/small scale play. Zergs get buffed while we suffer.

This is why ZoS gave us duels and battle grounds right?!?!? I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks soloing 10 ppl at the same time running around trees, rocks, and resource towers is a viable way to play. No one should have that much speed. Besides, if we are ALL slowed down by the changes, you can still do your thing. Just at a slower pace for everyone. I'm old and too tired to keep chasing you =(

Crixus8000 · October 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Very well said.

As a solo player I hate this so much. When doing 1vx without speed you just die, stand your ground isn't a thing with the amount of damage in pvp right now with things like bleeds and proc sets. If it's a duration nerf ( and it's probably going to be) then it's just pointless to run speed pots because the second that speed falls off your useless.

I tried running without speed pots and it was just terrible. I couldn't escape anything and couldn't hardly land any dizzy swings.

But zos seems to hate solo/small scale play. Zergs get buffed while we suffer.

This is why ZoS gave us duels and battle grounds right?!?!? I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks soloing 10 ppl at the same time running around trees, rocks, and resource towers is a viable way to play. No one should have that much speed. Besides, if we are ALL slowed down by the changes, you can still do your thing. Just at a slower pace for everyone. I'm old and too tired to keep chasing you =(

Your basically saying solo shouldn't be a viable way to play ? How else are we supposed to survive against 10 proc set players charging at us ? And no we can't do our thing because our speed is nerfed, but large groups can have rapids up fine, and if you don't like chasing people with your large group then walk away, nothing is stopping you.

Mintaka5 · October 2018

I don't feel bad, man, for these speed junkies. It's about time they got the brakes applied. I manage 4 seconds of speed with Race against time, a little bit more time with boundless storm, but still both are significantly less time than a 12.5 second nerf. The idea here is you cowards, that stealth gank, will now have to think more about what you do instead of unskilled hit and runs. L2P like the rest of us and stop whining you still get a long enough speed pot.

pieratsos · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Very well said.

As a solo player I hate this so much. When doing 1vx without speed you just die, stand your ground isn't a thing with the amount of damage in pvp right now with things like bleeds and proc sets. If it's a duration nerf ( and it's probably going to be) then it's just pointless to run speed pots because the second that speed falls off your useless.

I tried running without speed pots and it was just terrible. I couldn't escape anything and couldn't hardly land any dizzy swings.

But zos seems to hate solo/small scale play. Zergs get buffed while we suffer.

This is why ZoS gave us duels and battle grounds right?!?!? I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks soloing 10 ppl at the same time running around trees, rocks, and resource towers is a viable way to play. No one should have that much speed. Besides, if we are ALL slowed down by the changes, you can still do your thing. Just at a slower pace for everyone. I'm old and too tired to keep chasing you =(

Your basically saying solo shouldn't be a viable way to play ? How else are we supposed to survive against 10 proc set players charging at us ? And no we can't do our thing because our speed is nerfed, but large groups can have rapids up fine, and if you don't like chasing people with your large group then walk away, nothing is stopping you.

If solo play's viability is built on crutching on speed pots and running around towers then to hell with it. Its as if it doesnt exist anw.

Drako_Ei · October 2018

I have waited for this nerf for too long

SilverPaws · October 2018

This patch is paradise for zerglings. Seems zenimax want to please majority of pvp noobies haha.

callen4492 · October 2018

I use lingering health + speed pots. (No reason a magicka char can’t use those complainers) Well, until Murkmire that is. Now any potion with Major Expedition WILL BE USELESS. Great job, ZoS. Nerfed another item into oblivion. A much smaller change would have made sense, such as a reduction to 30s. I try to defend the changes y’all make most of the time but this is not very well thought out.

I think another good change would have been to change alchemical ingredients, so that you can’t get Major Endurance (stam recovery) and Speed from one potion. That way you would have to choose between speed and resource return regardless of whether you’re a magicka or stam player. WHATEVER DUDES.

callen4492 · October 2018

Speed pots will be useless because when you need major expedition, you need it on demand and can’t afford a 30 second cooldown.

Emma_Overload · October 2018

Ocelot9x wrote: »

12 seconds lol now noobs can get to you without having to l2p

I strongly suspect that the "noob" in your interactions with other players is not who you think it is.

SilverPaws · October 2018

As all know that outnumbered combat is possible only against noobs, potatoes and not against at least half decent players. That pretty much shows in what group all these complainers that get killed when they try to kill someone good 5v1 and fail miserably puts.

It's sad though that zenimax encourages this kind of crying and is making, because of it game much harder for us veterans who worked hard to get good.

GlorphNoldorin · October 2018

ZOS devs and their ridiculous vision to homogenize the game without separating pve and pvp. These speed changes may make people slower in pvp but how many people play pvp now days? 1/10000 less of pve?

it's clear the ZOS devs dont play pvp, they have no idea what its like in there. I mean forward momentum was the only thing making Elder Snares Online tolerable.

I gave up pvp as I hate the way it's leading to just ball groups who have impunity against all whilst keeping speed.....which wont change much from this patch

I could never play like that. With the bugs, lag and latency from Oceania it's impossible to fight good players. It was just too frustrating.

Now the things I like doing like tanking HM DLC like MOS just got way harder(as if it wasn't already hard enough). I mean why does pve need a speed nerf? These DEVs cant even clear their own content and seem so out of touch with what is fun in this game (at least from my late game perspective)

Prax3des · October 2018

12 seconds is too much. I'm all for some rebalancing, and the speed cap antics with Swift were obnoxious, especially in the current state of Unplayable Vivec where those players 100% know lag makes it impossible for players to land attacks on them -- but this is just too much.

I've mained PVP heals for a long time and have always relied on speed pots, either Speed-Immovable or Lingering Health-Speed, to stay mobile and not deplete my primary rss pool while still keeping up with my stam-heavy groups. Rather than on a stam toon, where I prioritize mobility in other ways because I actually have stam, I'm going to be feeling this on my mag toons 10x worse.

Consider me among the many who feel this punishes soloers and small-scalers, stam and mag alike.

KingExecration · October 2018

Well after playing strictly magic characters with such powerful mobility built around either mist form or niche builds with speed pots, I can happily say I’ll sit this patch out coach Wrobel. You can’t say you’re running a group this patch, but you’ll just be walking a group instead.

Dreyloch · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Very well said.

As a solo player I hate this so much. When doing 1vx without speed you just die, stand your ground isn't a thing with the amount of damage in pvp right now with things like bleeds and proc sets. If it's a duration nerf ( and it's probably going to be) then it's just pointless to run speed pots because the second that speed falls off your useless.

I tried running without speed pots and it was just terrible. I couldn't escape anything and couldn't hardly land any dizzy swings.

But zos seems to hate solo/small scale play. Zergs get buffed while we suffer.

This is why ZoS gave us duels and battle grounds right?!?!? I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks soloing 10 ppl at the same time running around trees, rocks, and resource towers is a viable way to play. No one should have that much speed. Besides, if we are ALL slowed down by the changes, you can still do your thing. Just at a slower pace for everyone. I'm old and too tired to keep chasing you =(

Your basically saying solo shouldn't be a viable way to play ? How else are we supposed to survive against 10 proc set players charging at us ? And no we can't do our thing because our speed is nerfed, but large groups can have rapids up fine, and if you don't like chasing people with your large group then walk away, nothing is stopping you.

First off, I play solo pretty much all the time myself. But I don't crutch on speed calling myself good because I can run around LoSing a bunch of potatoes. And that's the point. Your not supposed to get away from 10 ppl hitting you because you have an unfair speed advantage trying to 1vX. I would think dying a lot comes with that territory, yeah!?

Go duel people, stop being anti social and get a group and do BG's. No rapids there, I assure you. Too much resource for no CP's. Stop crying about large groups because you wanna run around in circles all day. Cyrodiil was meant for large scale battles. If you can't accept that, then your playing the wrong content/game. I play solo, die all the time, but I'm not gonna complain because it's supposed to be a faction effort. Your solo 1vXing is doing nothing for that. If that's the way you wanna play, so be it. Just stop trying to justify/make ZoS program the game to YOUR liking.

edit: AND BTW!!! How about running timer reduction mods on your jewelry for your pots. Problem solved. You'll be faster way more often.

Thogard · October 2018

What is the potion cooldown if you run infused/potion cooldown reduction glyphs?

DDuke · October 2018

Thogard wrote: »

What is the potion cooldown if you run infused/potion cooldown reduction glyphs?

21 seconds.

Thogard · October 2018

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

What is the potion cooldown if you run infused/potion cooldown reduction glyphs?

21 seconds.

So if I ran that, it’d be a 3s gap in maj expedition uptime between pots?

Crixus8000 · October 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

First off, I play solo pretty much all the time myself. But I don't crutch on speed calling myself good because I can run around LoSing a bunch of potatoes. And that's the point. Your not supposed to get away from 10 ppl hitting you because you have an unfair speed advantage trying to 1vX. I would think dying a lot comes with that territory, yeah!?

It's funny that everyone defending the nerf says the same thing about solo players, first I didn't call myself good and I don't try to 1vx ptoatoes , I just look for good fights, so don't make assumptions, you don't know me or know how I play. And if I'm not supposed to get away how is a solo player ever meant to be able to survive a group ? Just accept death anytime you meet a group (and that will be everywhere you go lol) seems fair.

Dreyloch wrote: »

Go duel people, stop being anti social and get a group and do BG's. No rapids there, I assure you. Too much resource for no CP's. Stop crying about large groups because you wanna run around in circles all day. Cyrodiil was meant for large scale battles. If you can't accept that, then your playing the wrong content/game. I play solo, die all the time, but I'm not gonna complain because it's supposed to be a faction effort. Your solo 1vXing is doing nothing for that. If that's the way you wanna play, so be it. Just stop trying to justify/make ZoS program the game to YOUR liking.

I do duel people and I do play bgs, what has that got to do with cyrodil though ? So as a solo player I can onyl have those 2 options, if I step foot in cyrodil I should just accept that the second I meet a group bigger than im that I'm dead ?

Solo play is a gamestyle too, that many enjoy, and why do people keep saying us solo players should stop demanding things go our way, when that's exactly what everyone else is doing and nerfing us. Speed pots was used mainly by solo/smallscale players and they are being nerfed, because the large groups couldn't walk away instead of chasing.

code65536 · October 2018

Instead of nerfing Swift, instead of nerfing every source of Expedition, ZOS could've fixed everything with one simple change: lower the in-combat speed cap.

Nobody complained about speed pots or Expedition before Swift existed. The only reason it's suddenly become an issue now is Swift+Expedition stacking. The only logical solution is to just lower the speed cap and stop the stacking. Not nerf every form of speed into bloody oblivion.

But I've given up at this point on ZOS listening to reason. So whatever. I won't waste more keystrokes yelling at a brick wall.

DDuke · October 2018

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

What is the potion cooldown if you run infused/potion cooldown reduction glyphs?

21 seconds.

So if I ran that, it’d be a 3s gap in maj expedition uptime between pots?

Just going by the patch notes, it should be 4,75 now.

For a potion at maximum rank, this reduces the duration of Major Expedition from 40.6 second to 12.5 seconds, before any modifications from things such as enchantments or passives.

So 21-[12,5+30%(Medicinal Use)]=4,75.

Haven't checked it yet on PTS though.

Bitmun · October 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Very well said.

As a solo player I hate this so much. When doing 1vx without speed you just die, stand your ground isn't a thing with the amount of damage in pvp right now with things like bleeds and proc sets. If it's a duration nerf ( and it's probably going to be) then it's just pointless to run speed pots because the second that speed falls off your useless.

I tried running without speed pots and it was just terrible. I couldn't escape anything and couldn't hardly land any dizzy swings.

But zos seems to hate solo/small scale play. Zergs get buffed while we suffer.

This is why ZoS gave us duels and battle grounds right?!?!? I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks soloing 10 ppl at the same time running around trees, rocks, and resource towers is a viable way to play. No one should have that much speed. Besides, if we are ALL slowed down by the changes, you can still do your thing. Just at a slower pace for everyone. I'm old and too tired to keep chasing you =(

Your basically saying solo shouldn't be a viable way to play ? How else are we supposed to survive against 10 proc set players charging at us ? And no we can't do our thing because our speed is nerfed, but large groups can have rapids up fine, and if you don't like chasing people with your large group then walk away, nothing is stopping you.

First off, I play solo pretty much all the time myself. But I don't crutch on speed calling myself good because I can run around LoSing a bunch of potatoes. And that's the point. Your not supposed to get away from 10 ppl hitting you because you have an unfair speed advantage trying to 1vX. I would think dying a lot comes with that territory, yeah!?

Go duel people, stop being anti social and get a group and do BG's. No rapids there, I assure you. Too much resource for no CP's. Stop crying about large groups because you wanna run around in circles all day. Cyrodiil was meant for large scale battles. If you can't accept that, then your playing the wrong content/game. I play solo, die all the time, but I'm not gonna complain because it's supposed to be a faction effort. Your solo 1vXing is doing nothing for that. If that's the way you wanna play, so be it. Just stop trying to justify/make ZoS program the game to YOUR liking.

edit: AND BTW!!! How about running timer reduction mods on your jewelry for your pots. Problem solved. You'll be faster way more often.

It is not about SoLo vs PotAtoes. Removing the mobility from almost all sources means that it reduces build diversity and destroys a bunch of playstyles. For example, aggressive face-to-face fast combat style will be deleted, stamina bois will have nothing to bring. Duels will be SLOWER as well. You could possibly sacrifice your 4k stam and 400wpd for ~24% speed (still slower, than now) in Cyro to play like a running clown, being not able to kill anyone, but in BGs/Duels it's a desctructive factor for stam classes in terms of balancing and fun providing. I am talking about builds without a bow. :P Stamina's point is mobility and aggressiveness in fight, which is fun and rewarding playstyle (love S&B + 2H). Speed pots synergise very well with snare remmovals, allowing players to stay in combat for 100% of time, manuevering and repositioning cleverly. That's what makes the fight fun and actionful for me, at least. Slowing this in line with some heavy mag classes will be simply boring. It is a HUGE step backwards, that makes me doubt if I should invest time in eso. :P And potion cooldown builds is a joke, since I don't wanna play an argonian, changing my jew. traits into a simple one all the time.

Bitmun · October 2018

The problem is Swift. It stacks with speed buffs. Change IT and all will be cool and fun as rn. c:

Ariades_swe · October 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Instead of nerfing Swift, instead of nerfing every source of Expedition, ZOS could've fixed everything with one simple change: lower the in-combat speed cap.

Nobody complained about speed pots or Expedition before Swift existed. The only reason it's suddenly become an issue now is Swift+Expedition stacking. The only logical solution is to just lower the speed cap and stop the stacking. Not nerf every form of speed into bloody oblivion.

But I've given up at this point on ZOS listening to reason. So whatever. I won't waste more keystrokes yelling at a brick wall.

It was suggested in a poll long before the pts cycle started that instead of nerfing indivual sources there should be a much lower cap.
Sadly most found that idea bad at the time and wanted to just nerf swift to 7.5 percent failing to see how speed still would be stacked pretty easy to at least 60% combat speed.
When swift got nerfed people pointed out the above and here we are with all speedbuffs nerfed.
So maybe people should be more careful with what they ask for.

Dreyloch · October 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

First off, I play solo pretty much all the time myself. But I don't crutch on speed calling myself good because I can run around LoSing a bunch of potatoes. And that's the point. Your not supposed to get away from 10 ppl hitting you because you have an unfair speed advantage trying to 1vX. I would think dying a lot comes with that territory, yeah!?

It's funny that everyone defending the nerf says the same thing about solo players, first I didn't call myself good and I don't try to 1vx ptoatoes , I just look for good fights, so don't make assumptions, you don't know me or know how I play. And if I'm not supposed to get away how is a solo player ever meant to be able to survive a group ? Just accept death anytime you meet a group (and that will be everywhere you go lol) seems fair.

Dreyloch wrote: »

Go duel people, stop being anti social and get a group and do BG's. No rapids there, I assure you. Too much resource for no CP's. Stop crying about large groups because you wanna run around in circles all day. Cyrodiil was meant for large scale battles. If you can't accept that, then your playing the wrong content/game. I play solo, die all the time, but I'm not gonna complain because it's supposed to be a faction effort. Your solo 1vXing is doing nothing for that. If that's the way you wanna play, so be it. Just stop trying to justify/make ZoS program the game to YOUR liking.

I do duel people and I do play bgs, what has that got to do with cyrodil though ? So as a solo player I can onyl have those 2 options, if I step foot in cyrodil I should just accept that the second I meet a group bigger than im that I'm dead ?

Solo play is a gamestyle too, that many enjoy, and why do people keep saying us solo players should stop demanding things go our way, when that's exactly what everyone else is doing and nerfing us. Speed pots was used mainly by solo/smallscale players and they are being nerfed, because the large groups couldn't walk away instead of chasing.

Hang on now, I'm not defending this nerf. I don't think skills should be nerfed because ZoS can't figure out how to separate PvE and PvP skill mechanics. But I will defend the fact that stamina toons in particular have a huge advantage right now when it comes to running away, or LoS'ing, and simply put. It's unfair for many other players. Snare has immunity, root has immunity, DK CHAINS has immunity. I mean C'mon. How are players not building for speed supposed to kill someone like that. Skills are not connecting when players are right in front of me, they simply move right out of the range of the melee attack. Not even dodge rolling! lol. So I understand "why" ZoS wants to change this up. The "how" is totally stupid.

I will agree though, that speed abilities stacking with swift trait jewelry needs to change. I would like to see us all move in a way that makes it possible to connect hits when appropriate. I will also defend that playing Cyrodiil solo is a choice. But please don't ask ZoS to hold back a design decision because it hurts solo/smallscale play, when the area was designed for large scale. Again, I play solo more often than not. Even when I run from a 10 man group that's spotted me, I will sometimes just accept death and stop running. It comes with being solo. My point is, ppl keep crying about not being able to play that way and live. In some cases it's possible. In most others, it's not. Some people just don't want to accept this fact.

Crixus8000 · October 2018

Dreyloch wrote: »

Hang on now, I'm not defending this nerf. I don't think skills should be nerfed because ZoS can't figure out how to separate PvE and PvP skill mechanics. But I will defend the fact that stamina toons in particular have a huge advantage right now when it comes to running away, or LoS'ing, and simply put. It's unfair for many other players. Snare has immunity, root has immunity, DK CHAINS has immunity. I mean C'mon. How are players not building for speed supposed to kill someone like that. Skills are not connecting when players are right in front of me, they simply move right out of the range of the melee attack. Not even dodge rolling! lol. So I understand "why" ZoS wants to change this up. The "how" is totally stupid.

I agree. Stamina has it way better for solo play and 1vx. Cyro has too much high damage and damage that ignores counterplay so speed is key to surviving and stamina does have way easier access. But imo I think instead of taking it away from stam that magicka could use more options too. Taking speed from everyone just means groups are fine but solo/smallscale suffer. And yeah speed when people stacked it was too much, Sometimes I would meet someone who I couldn't even land my dizzy on, by time it was half way through the animation they already moved off

But I never had this issue before swift.

Dreyloch wrote: »

I will agree though, that speed abilities stacking with swift trait jewelry needs to change. I would like to see us all move in a way that makes it possible to connect hits when appropriate. I will also defend that playing Cyrodiil solo is a choice. But please don't ask ZoS to hold back a design decision because it hurts solo/smallscale play, when the area was designed for large scale. Again, I play solo more often than not. Even when I run from a 10 man group that's spotted me, I will sometimes just accept death and stop running. It comes with being solo. My point is, ppl keep crying about not being able to play that way and live. In some cases it's possible. In most others, it's not. Some people just don't want to accept this fact.

I still don't think it's fair to just nerf solo/smallscale though. Many can say the area was meant to be largescale but why ? I just see it as a place to pvp and have fun, people should be able to play how they want. I don't expect to survive against a zerg, but I should at least have the option to retreat and with this speed pot nerf I'm not sure that will be possible most of the time.

And I don't mind dying. I enjoy a good fight, win or lose. But there is a difference between losing a fight because the enemies played well, and losing a fight because they light attacked you and it set of their overperforming proc sets.

You can use skill to counter things like sub assault, meteor, dizzy swing ect, by timing block, dodge roll and other things, it's good reactive skillful gameplay. But things like bleeds and proc sets you can't, A zaan melting your face off, going through block and walls takes no skill, bleeds deal way too much dmg in no cp and have 0 defence. Speed helps solo players survive better by using los to help keep the pressure off, it's the only counter play to many overperforming things.