DTStormfox wrote: »They didn't nerf speed. They nerfed the abilities that give speed.
You only have to hit that speed buff ability more often. Which more a nerf to sustain than anything else.
I am more concerned about the changes with snare immunity, but that is something for another topic.
Maura_Neysa wrote: »ZoS effed up with Swift. That’s all there is to it. Fix Swift, don’t destroy everything to justify your mistake
Maura_Neysa wrote: »ZoS effed up with Swift. That’s all there is to it. Fix Swift, don’t destroy everything to justify your mistake
getting the frags and rune cage treatment, it seems.
smh.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.
Crixus8000 wrote: »Though the speed pots are either way in a serious need of a nerf!
No they aren't. Without them solo play will be over for many builds. How do you survive on your own when 4+ players are chasing you with proc sets ? You use los, that will be hard to do when slowly walking around a corner. There is other ways they could handle this but nerfing speed pots is just a massive, destroying nerf to solo 1vx play, and it's already hard enough.
Totally disagree with the reduction of the duration of certain buffs, like major expedition from sets, boundless storm, shield nerf, and so on. This is mainly because the solo play, like exploration and questing becomes boring with these changes. Why do you need a speed buff that lasts 8 seconds in the open world? You need to mash keys constantly just to reapply some buffs for normal play. I don't think I am going to play magicka sorc anymore as it is because some abilities will just not be fun or rewarding to use for solo play.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.
People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.
This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVP. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.
Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.
People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.
This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVE. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.
Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.
Completely agree with this part. PvP is the reason for so many massive game changing nerfs. Because in PvP the margines between good an bad are so much closer. That and the fact that everyone thinks they are the top 10% when in reality most of us are between the 25-75% of player skill level.WrathOfInnos wrote: »So many people asked for these changes. I think they were all wrong. The game should not be balanced around PVP whining threads. I’m quite irritated by the whole “nerf my enemy” mentality TBH. Everything just get continues to get watered down. If there was a real problem then there could have been much more fun and creative solutions than simply gutting every skill and set that provides a speed bonus.
People weren't complaining over Major Expedition, though. Quite the contrary, people generally agreed that it was primarily swift that enabled the game breaking speeds that stamina can achieve on live currently. The reps even outright told Zenimax that Major Expedition is fine. These Major Expedition nerfs are completely the fault of Zenimax, because next to nobody wanted Major Expedition nerfed. If anything, people wanted better access to Major Expedition on magicka.
This whole "don't nerf the game because of PVP" thing is bs, too. PVP is part of the game, just the same as PVP. And some of these things people complain about genuinely do make the PVP experience worse. Swift genuinely did hurt PVP balance by allowing some builds to move so fast that the targeting system just breaks. Obviously not everything is a valid complaint, a lot of the things people complain about are just them venting, holding no merit. But to say that Zenimax shouldn't balance around PVP the same as PVE is ludicrous.
Don't blame PVP, nor PVP players, blame Zenimax not splitting balance between PVE and PVP by way of Battle Spirit.
Disagree about the pvp thing. What's ludicrous is trying to balance the entire game around 15% of the player base, which is done more often than them rebalancing skills due to pve. There is no doubt in my mind the game would have far less nerfs by a landslide if not for pvp.
But you are right, I don't blame pvp nor Pvper's as I am one, I blame Zos for refusing to split the two. It's insulting hearing them say they want it to be a smooth transition when pvp and pve are totally different playstyles and require totally different gear.
They are fundamentally different games with different audiences and pitting the two very separate groups is tearing their community apart. Constantly. But alas it means nothing until they start losing players and funding which even then might result in them just cashing out instead of delivering a quality experience for both groups. It's easy to think things would be better when they in fact could be worse.
Crixus8000 wrote: »Though the speed pots are either way in a serious need of a nerf!
No they aren't. Without them solo play will be over for many builds. How do you survive on your own when 4+ players are chasing you with proc sets ? You use los, that will be hard to do when slowly walking around a corner. There is other ways they could handle this but nerfing speed pots is just a massive, destroying nerf to solo 1vx play, and it's already hard enough.
Serious question, why is a competent player expected to survive an encounter against 4+ competent players, proc sets or not? I know I'm not that good but I can take on maybe 2 competent players before I'm overwhelmed by the damage in BG'S, just curious as to where this thought process started.
Lord_Dexter wrote: »Nerf to Speed was much inevitable, currently speeds builds are OP in BG, Small Scale PVP (IC etc.)
Crixus8000 wrote: »Crixus8000 wrote: »Though the speed pots are either way in a serious need of a nerf!
No they aren't. Without them solo play will be over for many builds. How do you survive on your own when 4+ players are chasing you with proc sets ? You use los, that will be hard to do when slowly walking around a corner. There is other ways they could handle this but nerfing speed pots is just a massive, destroying nerf to solo 1vx play, and it's already hard enough.
Serious question, why is a competent player expected to survive an encounter against 4+ competent players, proc sets or not? I know I'm not that good but I can take on maybe 2 competent players before I'm overwhelmed by the damage in BG'S, just curious as to where this thought process started.
Well if they are actually good players then no your not going to live long. But as long as they arent being carried by overperforming things then yes you can survive decently and that's how it should be using counterplay, like block timing, dodging ect, I don't think it would be a good game design to just insta die when you meet more players no matter how skilled you get.
My issue is though when they are using overperforming things like poisons, bleed and proc sets, for example I have 30k resists in no cp, and a single zaan has hit me 23k, it goes through block and even walls lol and yet people tell me speed is overpowered ? It helps against things like this. It a solo players defence against being outnumbered, just as a groups defence is the stacked damage and heals they get.
Finedaible wrote: »Never encountered a problem with Expedition buff outside of Battlegrounds. The real reason they are nerfing Expedition across the board is to encourage further sales of crown riding lessons
Swift was the real problem, which should have been a good enough nerf on its own.
I don't think it's good game design seeing one dude being able 1vX equal players. 1v1 should end in a stalemate unless one of them messes up. 1vX should be over in a matter of seconds. Whether because the other opponent is healing or outright out damaging the other.
I dunno, never even thought about something being op because I lost to 2 or more players focused on killing me. I simply disagree something is op because you die when 2 or more players are using a good ability/set against you.
I also think ego is at fault here to some degree. The number of players who think they only lose because their opponents are using op sets/abilities is staggering. You yourself believe you should last a lot longer than what you can.
I don't think it's good game design seeing one dude being able 1vX equal players.
1v1 should end in a stalemate unless one of them messes up.
1vX should be over in a matter of seconds
Trancestor wrote: »Nobody complained about speed being OP before Swift was a thing, now you nerfed Swift, good, that was a needed change, but why for the hate of ZOS did you have to touch major expedition? 4 seconds on bird of prey, a skill mainly used by magdens who already have the worst mobility, same with magdks nerf to chains, because everyone was totally crying all the time "these darn magdks are too damn fast", now next week you will probably make speed pots last for 15 seconds and nobody will use them anymore, yeah don't do that, just don't. You are only buffing zergs and making solo/small scale play even more of a pain in the ass.