I don’t get on the high expectation on killing groups when out numbered. It seems if certain people can 1vx they complain and demand nerfs. You are out numbered. Unless you are significantly better than that group and focus down one at a time, you will probably lose. Especially if they have a dedicated healer.
fullheartcontainer wrote: »
I mean, sure you can laugh and offer nothing back. The fact is, Templar has very little in terms of group buffs.
As a Templar, my group buffs I can give are:
- Minor Sorcery
Compare this to Warden's group buffs:
- Major Protection
- Major Resolve
- Major Ward
- Minor Toughness
A Dragonknight:
- Magma Shell Shield
- Major Sorcery
- Major Brutality
- Obsidian Shield
- Minor Brutality
killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »but....but...the OP is the HERO OF ALDMERII, hes the BANE OF THE GOLD COST, hes the LIGHT OF CYRODIIL, he one handedly brought down MOLAG BAL and slays daedric princes at will, he has fought and killed dragons, he has brought down empires and kings...How can he DIE?
I‘m not defending the group or their approach to PvP. But look at your complaints and what you bring to the table in this scenario:
- No consistent source of defile
- Several chances missed to burst the same target
- Boasting about conditional one dimensional stats
To me it looks more like an infantile attempt to redeem yourself from a failed duo encouter with a non full-potato group.
What truly bugs me out, you‘re always very vocal about things in the game that hurt your current approach to PvP. Next you falsely market these things as „Meta“, while you truly abuse broken op Meta (Master DW bleeds).
This video is proof you‘re not that far ahead from understanding things compared to the people you call „bad players“.
/e
Rather make a constructive thread that campaigns for a rez penalty, and have a neutral approach to it.
VirtualElizabeth wrote: »OP - In the past I often played as one of those "stupid healbots" as you refer to HEALERS as. Like p00tx, our job is to do more than just throw Breath of Life and healing springs. We are there to buff the players and help to damage our worthy opponents. OP - I challenge you to try and run a healer in pvp at some point. Thanks!
This. Just spamming BoL and healing springs doesn't make you a good healer. Good healers are a treasure. And they build tanky because they have too. Dying from being focused means you do zero heals.
I've fought infinite rez groups and it's annoying. It's frustrating and not fun, true. But the OP's whole premise seems to be they deserved to kill them because they run meta builds and that makes them superior. Anyone who builds specifically to defend against that must be bad?
fullheartcontainer wrote: »hey all! I play a templar heal/tank.
While it's true it's very hard to kill me, it does come with cons
- I can't kill you. Period. I have no damage abilities on my bar. Even if I put them on my bar, they won't do anything to you.
- My heals are quite a bit weaker than a light armor build. I can focus heal people, but you can damage through it easily by focusing targets.
- As a templar, I don't have a ton of group synergies like other classes do, for example DK's Igneous Shields and Weapons.
Basically, my build is about getting off the heals/purges I can and not dying, because an alive healer is better than a squishy dead one. When my team goes down, I rez.
So, while I understand your frustration in that your DPS isn't able to kill me, I think you should understand that I've specifically built my character to resist your kind of builds, and that I do have drawbacks of my own. Thank you
the problem with the battle-spirit idea is that it doesnt punish tanky builds, so it doesnt matter if you run a 20k hp 40k magicka templar or a 40k hp 20k magicka templar your heals will still be similar (its not a day and night difference).
the problem with the battle-spirit idea is that it doesnt punish tanky builds, so it doesnt matter if you run a 20k hp 40k magicka templar or a 40k hp 20k magicka templar your heals will still be similar (its not a day and night difference).
Incorrect. Battle Spirit cuts our heals in half, and they are already drastically diminished by using heavy armour. Running higher health also means we have to sacrifice another spec, like max mag (can't have it all, and it has to come from somewhere), which means even smaller heals, plus a smaller resource pool. If you run into an effective healer in heavy armour who is able to keep a group alive by themselves while that group is being waled on by an experienced groups of players, then you have found an exceptional player who knows what they're doing.
leepalmer95 wrote: »the problem with the battle-spirit idea is that it doesnt punish tanky builds, so it doesnt matter if you run a 20k hp 40k magicka templar or a 40k hp 20k magicka templar your heals will still be similar (its not a day and night difference).
Incorrect. Battle Spirit cuts our heals in half, and they are already drastically diminished by using heavy armour. Running higher health also means we have to sacrifice another spec, like max mag (can't have it all, and it has to come from somewhere), which means even smaller heals, plus a smaller resource pool. If you run into an effective healer in heavy armour who is able to keep a group alive by themselves while that group is being waled on by an experienced groups of players, then you have found an exceptional player who knows what they're doing.
The battle spirit buff is balanced, half heals, half dmg so you can ignore that.
Or someone who has throw on heavy armour, pirate skeleton/ earthgore and something likes trans offbar with a vma/ dsa resto to spam springs, breath when needed and use ults such as resto ult or remembrance, it's quite easy. I've ran one myself but got bored with the play style, it's quite easy to become a very effective healer in cp.
You'd be surprised how tanky you become when you have 30k armour, 30% dmg reduction (will be 38% next patch), and 4.2k crit resist spamming yourself with springs + burst heals when needed + cleanse to stop any counterplay.
Also heals do not tank a dive when in a full healer setup, infact that are the same or even high in most cases because of cp. For a start heavy armour gives you a 8% increased healing over light, then when you fully spec cp into healing you have 3 stars boosting it. DD type build may have a little into blessed and quick recovery but if you're a healer you can pretty much fully spec them which more than makes up for the slightly lower stats you'd have.
Hence why if you go a full dd or a full healer your heals won't be too much different.
the problem with the battle-spirit idea is that it doesnt punish tanky builds, so it doesnt matter if you run a 20k hp 40k magicka templar or a 40k hp 20k magicka templar your heals will still be similar (its not a day and night difference).
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think this is a situation of balance but one where the players don’t know when to walk away. You described them as tanks and having a healer. Why waste your time attempting to deal with them, I walk away from players like that.
While that particular situation might not have been the case, problem with groups like this, 4 tanky players and healer, is that they usually don't let you just walk away, especially EP skyrim fanboys on PC EU (from mz experience) and I bet it's very similar on other platforms ... they will go after you keep snaring and CC ing you doing their subpar damage which they sacrificed for their tankiness and keep you in combat ... and after you finally shake them off, they will start keyboardwarrioring you in PMs or even better, come to forums complaining about overperformjng forward momentum, stamina mobility, Vigor or simply anything they will blame for their inability to kill you.
I know I know... raise floor, lower ceiling, let players get their alliance ranks faster (that's why it doesn't matter any more), but to be honest if I was in that fight and those 5 guys would be able to drop me in within a minute or less, I d say fair enough, I overextended, got outnumbered and killed in 2v5 by group that knows what are they doing... but ... having to fight their ress attempts on their NB friend and seeing they have no clue how to drop my duo of pure DDs, surviving and getting carried by incredibly tanky pocket healer, knowing that if I try to pull out they will follow me right the second one of them gets the 5th one ressed, I'd be as triggered as OP, in all honesty.
9 out of 10 when people can’t kill me and I can’t kill them I’m able to walk away, doesn’t matter how many it is. The most recent was when I was in a 1v3 against a Stam Warden, magplar and a werewolf who I think was a dk. Every time I came close to killing one of them they panicked ulted stalemating the fight, so eventually I sheathed my weapons and walked away. The thing is most people know when they’re not going to be able to kill you and leave you alone.
Sure there’s people who will never give up or accuse you of spamming heals and dodge rolling but it’s not that serious to care.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think this is a situation of balance but one where the players don’t know when to walk away. You described them as tanks and having a healer. Why waste your time attempting to deal with them, I walk away from players like that.
While that particular situation might not have been the case, problem with groups like this, 4 tanky players and healer, is that they usually don't let you just walk away, especially EP skyrim fanboys on PC EU (from mz experience) and I bet it's very similar on other platforms ... they will go after you keep snaring and CC ing you doing their subpar damage which they sacrificed for their tankiness and keep you in combat ... and after you finally shake them off, they will start keyboardwarrioring you in PMs or even better, come to forums complaining about overperformjng forward momentum, stamina mobility, Vigor or simply anything they will blame for their inability to kill you.
I know I know... raise floor, lower ceiling, let players get their alliance ranks faster (that's why it doesn't matter any more), but to be honest if I was in that fight and those 5 guys would be able to drop me in within a minute or less, I d say fair enough, I overextended, got outnumbered and killed in 2v5 by group that knows what are they doing... but ... having to fight their ress attempts on their NB friend and seeing they have no clue how to drop my duo of pure DDs, surviving and getting carried by incredibly tanky pocket healer, knowing that if I try to pull out they will follow me right the second one of them gets the 5th one ressed, I'd be as triggered as OP, in all honesty.
9 out of 10 when people can’t kill me and I can’t kill them I’m able to walk away, doesn’t matter how many it is. The most recent was when I was in a 1v3 against a Stam Warden, magplar and a werewolf who I think was a dk. Every time I came close to killing one of them they panicked ulted stalemating the fight, so eventually I sheathed my weapons and walked away. The thing is most people know when they’re not going to be able to kill you and leave you alone.
Sure there’s people who will never give up or accuse you of spamming heals and dodge rolling but it’s not that serious to care.
Two potions is the length of time I give it. Probably around 2-3 minutes.
If I can't kill a player in that time and they can't kill me, and neither health bar was dangerously low in that time, I consider the fight a stalemate and walk away.
Joy_Division wrote: »So because "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure," you're salty because you didn't win a 2v4 fight, when all four of the other players are high ranks (1 was a GO) and know what they are doing?
3 of your opponents were no damage tanks (and even the 4th 's damage was nothing to write home about) and they run those builds probably because of complaints by people such as you: "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure please nerf healbots, nerf bock, nerf anything preventing me from getting the kills I deserve in a 2v4 vs non-potatoes. And so ZOS does, which means people who hate dying (most) look to powerful gear sets to make up for their loss of class abilities to defend themselves. Reactive, HistSap, Wizard's riposte, Pirate skeleton, etc., I am going to wear those because it's the best tool in the game vs "My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure".
What kind of PvP balance are you looking for? Your health did not drop under 90% the entire time until they rezzed the dead guy. You want a game in which 2 DPS can take out a 4 tanks without ever having their health bar scratched? Sounds totally balanced!
leepalmer95 wrote: »https://youtu.be/1z1yIlE2E4A
I muted the audio for a reason, I'm in a medium build with master dw , 30k stam and about 6k weapon dmg when rav + alch is proc'd with 46% crit. My build hits very hard and has a lot of single pressure.
So a single magplar healbot pretty much stopped us from ever winning that fight, over 30k hp, reactive and cleanse mean't we had no chance. This sort of setup is getting a nice minor protection buff next class, why isn't this being looked at? This isn't a case of 'we may have a chance' this is a this build in in this fight and that settles that. This type of build is stupidly broken and this was only one when you have zergs full of these then pvp becomes a joke.
Spent most of that fight stopping them reviving, they were reviving in front of us and it was only costing us stamina and literally no downsides for them. But hey, battle reviving is fine right?
Then we have the battle reviving, look at how OP and stupid it is. We sit there for 5 minutes constantly bashing people, wasting out GCD's so we can't go on the offensive, wasting our stamina. What downsides did the other players get for getting bashed? Literally nothing. They just went straight back to reviving again and again. This is the mindset in pvp now, not 'we still have double their numbers and a healer' lets try kill them it's. Lets just go for the revive and get an extra player, there is nothing they can do about it. It's even worse when you manage to drop like 6 people when being chased by a zerg in a duo or something, then your forced to move to rebuff and everyone you killed is already up again.
This is pvp now, everyone just makes a tank and wear people down, at least the zergs do. Doesn't matter if your sustain is bad, your healing is bad or your dmg is bad in a group like that. Healbots will heal for you, you can safely heavy attack if you need and you can be hitting 3k dawnbreaker's or 3k shalks but it doesn't matter when you have numbers and drop 4-5 at once. Group will make up for your bad dmg. All people need to do is build to be near unburstable so the healers can heal you without even looking at you.
It's great how they're buffing magplars and wardens? Do zos even pvp. Stam warden is the strongest class in pvp at the moment but lets give them sustain buff, cost reduction and flat out dmg increase amazing. Oh whats that? Healbots are tanky enough already, make them more tanky.
Lets nerf light armour by nerfing shields and nerf medium armour by nerfing shuffle and making medium more squishy overall, that'll force the last remaining people into heavy finally, i assume this is zos's goal. Even though i'm running medium on this stamplar i know for a fact that in cp pvp atleast heavy is just better and next patch with no actual buff to medium i'll 100% use heavy. I assume classes like mag sorc and stam nb will do too.
It's fights like this that make me question is zos even play their game, it's stuff like this that needs nerfing yet zos decided to gut shields, nerf mag dk and buff these play styles .
Also challenge for anyone, want to count how many bashes we had to do?
usmguy1234 wrote: »I feel your pain. I run solo and it's so aggravating how many sets/ skill combos carry people.
fullheartcontainer wrote: »hey all! I play a templar heal/tank.
While it's true it's very hard to kill me, it does come with cons
- I can't kill you. Period. I have no damage abilities on my bar. Even if I put them on my bar, they won't do anything to you.
- My heals are quite a bit weaker than a light armor build. I can focus heal people, but you can damage through it easily by focusing targets.
- As a templar, I don't have a ton of group synergies like other classes do, for example DK's Igneous Shields and Weapons.
I don’t get on the high expectation on killing groups when out numbered. It seems if certain people can 1vx they complain and demand nerfs. You are out numbered. Unless you are significantly better than that group and focus down one at a time, you will probably lose. Especially if they have a dedicated healer.
Personally I believe that there are only 4 different things that should help you win an outnumbered fight :
- You have more experience of game mechanics
- Alot of synergies
- No AOE cap
- We need some sort of dynamic ultimate generation back into the game
If you play outnumbed with dawnbreaker and steel tornado / cleave , fighting a well organized large group, there is no way you should be able to win the encounter. You are not damaging enough people. If you want to win, you need to have people running larger aoe (destro ult) and massive amount of dmg synergies (gravity crush, ignite, shackle, energy orb).
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think this is a situation of balance but one where the players don’t know when to walk away. You described them as tanks and having a healer. Why waste your time attempting to deal with them, I walk away from players like that.
While that particular situation might not have been the case, problem with groups like this, 4 tanky players and healer, is that they usually don't let you just walk away, especially EP skyrim fanboys on PC EU (from mz experience) and I bet it's very similar on other platforms ... they will go after you keep snaring and CC ing you doing their subpar damage which they sacrificed for their tankiness and keep you in combat ... and after you finally shake them off, they will start keyboardwarrioring you in PMs or even better, come to forums complaining about overperformjng forward momentum, stamina mobility, Vigor or simply anything they will blame for their inability to kill you.
I know I know... raise floor, lower ceiling, let players get their alliance ranks faster (that's why it doesn't matter any more), but to be honest if I was in that fight and those 5 guys would be able to drop me in within a minute or less, I d say fair enough, I overextended, got outnumbered and killed in 2v5 by group that knows what are they doing... but ... having to fight their ress attempts on their NB friend and seeing they have no clue how to drop my duo of pure DDs, surviving and getting carried by incredibly tanky pocket healer, knowing that if I try to pull out they will follow me right the second one of them gets the 5th one ressed, I'd be as triggered as OP, in all honesty.
9 out of 10 when people can’t kill me and I can’t kill them I’m able to walk away, doesn’t matter how many it is. The most recent was when I was in a 1v3 against a Stam Warden, magplar and a werewolf who I think was a dk. Every time I came close to killing one of them they panicked ulted stalemating the fight, so eventually I sheathed my weapons and walked away. The thing is most people know when they’re not going to be able to kill you and leave you alone.
Sure there’s people who will never give up or accuse you of spamming heals and dodge rolling but it’s not that serious to care.
Two potions is the length of time I give it. Probably around 2-3 minutes.
If I can't kill a player in that time and they can't kill me, and neither health bar was dangerously low in that time, I consider the fight a stalemate and walk away.
CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »I don’t think this is a situation of balance but one where the players don’t know when to walk away. You described them as tanks and having a healer. Why waste your time attempting to deal with them, I walk away from players like that.
While that particular situation might not have been the case, problem with groups like this, 4 tanky players and healer, is that they usually don't let you just walk away, especially EP skyrim fanboys on PC EU (from mz experience) and I bet it's very similar on other platforms ... they will go after you keep snaring and CC ing you doing their subpar damage which they sacrificed for their tankiness and keep you in combat ... and after you finally shake them off, they will start keyboardwarrioring you in PMs or even better, come to forums complaining about overperformjng forward momentum, stamina mobility, Vigor or simply anything they will blame for their inability to kill you.
I know I know... raise floor, lower ceiling, let players get their alliance ranks faster (that's why it doesn't matter any more), but to be honest if I was in that fight and those 5 guys would be able to drop me in within a minute or less, I d say fair enough, I overextended, got outnumbered and killed in 2v5 by group that knows what are they doing... but ... having to fight their ress attempts on their NB friend and seeing they have no clue how to drop my duo of pure DDs, surviving and getting carried by incredibly tanky pocket healer, knowing that if I try to pull out they will follow me right the second one of them gets the 5th one ressed, I'd be as triggered as OP, in all honesty.
9 out of 10 when people can’t kill me and I can’t kill them I’m able to walk away, doesn’t matter how many it is. The most recent was when I was in a 1v3 against a Stam Warden, magplar and a werewolf who I think was a dk. Every time I came close to killing one of them they panicked ulted stalemating the fight, so eventually I sheathed my weapons and walked away. The thing is most people know when they’re not going to be able to kill you and leave you alone.
Sure there’s people who will never give up or accuse you of spamming heals and dodge rolling but it’s not that serious to care.
Two potions is the length of time I give it. Probably around 2-3 minutes.
If I can't kill a player in that time and they can't kill me, and neither health bar was dangerously low in that time, I consider the fight a stalemate and walk away.