dwemer_paleologist wrote: »more and more im leaning towards the possibility that Artificial Intelligence is calling the shots and decision making for nerfs and such in ESO.
Idk if cast time is the best nerf for shields, will have to wait until its out. However, no one can honestly say that shields were fine as is. When you can burst a magsorc down to execute range but multiple people cant execute him because he stacks shields, is not how it should work in pvp. I am a little worried for how my magsorc will perform in pve tho, but im sure ill adjust just fine.
This is the answer. Zerg players often think that numbers = auto win even if they just spam light attacks. Of course it doesnt help against an experienced player of any class.Idk if cast time is the best nerf for shields, will have to wait until its out. However, no one can honestly say that shields were fine as is. When you can burst a magsorc down to execute range but multiple people cant execute him because he stacks shields, is not how it should work in pvp. I am a little worried for how my magsorc will perform in pve tho, but im sure ill adjust just fine.
You are right. Thats not how it works. Unless those multiple are complete potatoes in which case shields arent ur issue.
Because in PvP triple-shield-stacking sorcs are impossible to defeat. Everyone in PvP runs a sorc because of this, except for the handful of stam builds who are allergic to shields.
Because in PvE healers are waiting tables or begging in the streets. Everyone runs only sorcs in dungeons and trials, because insta-shields is godmode, meaning sorcs take absolutely no damage whatsoever while tanking bosses and healing the group.
Thus Nerf Sorc.
This dude obviously has no idea what he’s talking about.... You only bring 1 sorc to trials and the rest are magblades, tanks, and healers.... Lol GG
I can kill shield users fine in PvP, and my own shields get taken off quite easily, so I'm really not sure how they're OP in PvP, at least in non-CP. BGs are basically StamGrounds at the moment, and with spammable gap closers, swift, speed pots, etc, the range vs melee thing isn't really relevant. Without range or the ability to stun break and roll dodge continuously, shields are important for light armor mag builds to survive.
In PvE, shields only help you live through stuff that would kill you regardless, so nerfing them isn't going to help healers be more effective, unless constantly ressing makes healers "feel more useful." If ZOS wants to buff healers, they should give them better group utility and not make so many 1-shot mechanics.
With this in mind, what exactly is the "problem" with shields? PvP already leans towards stam players, and shields are necessary in PvE thanks to the prevalence of 1-shot mechanics.
I can kill shield users fine in PvP, and my own shields get taken off quite easily, so I'm really not sure how they're OP in PvP, at least in non-CP. BGs are basically StamGrounds at the moment, and with spammable gap closers, swift, speed pots, etc, the range vs melee thing isn't really relevant. Without range or the ability to stun break and roll dodge continuously, shields are important for light armor mag builds to survive.
In PvE, shields only help you live through stuff that would kill you regardless, so nerfing them isn't going to help healers be more effective, unless constantly ressing makes healers "feel more useful." If ZOS wants to buff healers, they should give them better group utility and not make so many 1-shot mechanics.
With this in mind, what exactly is the "problem" with shields? PvP already leans towards stam players, and shields are necessary in PvE thanks to the prevalence of 1-shot mechanics.
Because the current state of shields allows you to solo almost all of the 4 man content in the game.
LadyNalcarya wrote: »Insane offense and insane defense simultaneously.
That's the problem. You should have to make a choice.
You wanna go glasscanon and hit ultra hard ? Then you shouldn't have that insane defense.
As a sorc you have to wear sustain sets and their damage is actually pretty low. Even the most dedicated sorc haters on these forums cant bring a video proving the "insane damage". People lie like there's no tomorrow, post low mmr matches full of "recruits" and low cps guys claiming its a super competitive high mmr bg. People post a video of a player killing low cp newbies (including magsorcs) and still claim that sorc is op. Come on, it's pretty obvious at this point.
Pve-wise this glass cannon pulls less dps than magdens and has huge sustain issues. Much op, such wow.
One thing I don't understand, tho...
Why is the shield nerf = sorc nerf ?
Because in PvP triple-shield-stacking sorcs are impossible to defeat. Everyone in PvP runs a sorc because of this, except for the handful of stam builds who are allergic to shields.
Because in PvE healers are waiting tables or begging in the streets. Everyone runs only sorcs in dungeons and trials, because insta-shields is godmode, meaning sorcs take absolutely no damage whatsoever while tanking bosses and healing the group.
Thus Nerf Sorc.
This is a lame excuse by someone who has a hard time beating sorcs. Show me a "shield stacking" sorc with enough sustain and power that's "impossible to kill".
Ah let's see in no particular order.
Reddington James
Gundysorc
Beautiful chocolate man
True legend
Perfectly perched pelican
Methuselah
King Richard when he used to play
Sypherpk when he used to play
I'm sure I can think of a dozen more if I really tried. No doubt these are all very good players but with shield mechanics currently the way they are they are impossible to kill. They never run out of stamina and never let their shield down and hit like a truck. These pros have perfected their builds and have exploited shield mechanics forever. It's time shields got a Nerf. I don't agree with 1 sec cast time but when Sorcs are stacking 50-80k shields and hitting like a damn truck there is a problem. When the general mass players have adopted their builds even the average player feels like a god to fight against.
80k shields. Seems legit. Anyone wanna go for 100k?
Sarcasm noted. You can hit 80k or come pretty damn close to it wearing imperial physique set in IC. Try fighting a maxed out sorc wearing ip during the IC event. It's ***.
Idk if cast time is the best nerf for shields, will have to wait until its out. However, no one can honestly say that shields were fine as is. When you can burst a magsorc down to execute range but multiple people cant execute him because he stacks shields, is not how it should work in pvp. I am a little worried for how my magsorc will perform in pve tho, but im sure ill adjust just fine.
One thing I don't understand, tho...
Why is the shield nerf = sorc nerf ?
That's what what annoys me a lot in this shield nerf case. People hate Mag Sorc playstyle so much that they are not even thinking for a second that there are other classes who will suffer SIGNIFICANTLY from this shield cast time nerf.
It went even worse when healing ward lost the heal which did help me to get out of the execute range in PvP.
Now I have to seriously consider how I solve my healing issue in PvP - as a solo player - if I want to keep playing with my mag NB.
Every time when there's a thread about shield cast time issue, thread gets filled with posts were people are trying to use mag Sorc playstyle as an example why this shield nerf is justified. It's so frustrating to see how blinded people are.
But hey, something positive: it seems like soon we have a chance to get that marvelous Psijic Villa, where we can use the yard for building new graveyard for our light armor shield user characters.
One thing I don't understand, tho...
Why is the shield nerf = sorc nerf ?
That's what what annoys me a lot in this shield nerf case. People hate Mag Sorc playstyle so much that they are not even thinking for a second that there are other classes who will suffer SIGNIFICANTLY from this shield cast time nerf.
It went even worse when healing ward lost the heal which did help me to get out of the execute range in PvP.
Now I have to seriously consider how I solve my healing issue in PvP - as a solo player - if I want to keep playing with my mag NB.
Every time when there's a thread about shield cast time issue, thread gets filled with posts were people are trying to use mag Sorc playstyle as an example why this shield nerf is justified. It's so frustrating to see how blinded people are.
But hey, something positive: it seems like soon we have a chance to get that marvelous Psijic Villa, where we can use the yard for building new graveyard for our light armor shield user characters.
It's a Sorc nerf because the sorc class is affected twice as much
Cos sorcs cast harden ward, ward ally or what ever on the restro staff and harness magic ...
This gives them three shields and three utility aids to health regen damage mitigation and resource regen
Instead of simply making it so casting one shield over another cancels out the last one, or making it so all shields go on a cool down once one is cast preventing stacking they went a bit mental and added a cast time ... This allows sorcs to still have the buffs ... But now I stead of it being an "oh *** panic" and letting them still have an edge they're now forced to buff up prior to an engagement and if they don't get the kill they need to back up for a sheild buff ... This gives the opponent a window to get in at them ...
I understand ZoS thinking ... But they're blinded to the sorc problem and not the knock it will have to other sheild users who don't stack for pve
You know the cost for stacking 3 shields is like 10k magicka, right? And they only last 6 seconds, require 3 sec of gcd to cast in which you won't be able to attack, and also get burned through very quickly in no-cp. You can't continuously spam 3 shields while attacking, or even when just trying to defend. With battle spirit your magicka is like 36k, so you'll run out pretty quickly if you just spam.
https://youtu.be/Y_bWwrZcd_A
You want me to keep going ?
Even with animation canceling, its 3 global cooldowns. No getting around it.
I can kill shield users fine in PvP, and my own shields get taken off quite easily, so I'm really not sure how they're OP in PvP, at least in non-CP. BGs are basically StamGrounds at the moment, and with spammable gap closers, swift, speed pots, etc, the range vs melee thing isn't really relevant. Without range or the ability to stun break and roll dodge continuously, shields are important for light armor mag builds to survive.
In PvE, shields only help you live through stuff that would kill you regardless, so nerfing them isn't going to help healers be more effective, unless constantly ressing makes healers "feel more useful." If ZOS wants to buff healers, they should give them better group utility and not make so many 1-shot mechanics.
With this in mind, what exactly is the "problem" with shields? PvP already leans towards stam players, and shields are necessary in PvE thanks to the prevalence of 1-shot mechanics.
Because the current state of shields allows you to solo almost all of the 4 man content in the game.
Cos sorcs cast harden ward, ward ally or what ever on the restro staff and harness magic ...
This gives them three shields and three utility aids to health regen damage mitigation and resource regen
Instead of simply making it so casting one shield over another cancels out the last one, or making it so all shields go on a cool down once one is cast preventing stacking they went a bit mental and added a cast time ... This allows sorcs to still have the buffs ... But now I stead of it being an "oh *** panic" and letting them still have an edge they're now forced to buff up prior to an engagement and if they don't get the kill they need to back up for a sheild buff ... This gives the opponent a window to get in at them ...
I understand ZoS thinking ... But they're blinded to the sorc problem and not the knock it will have to other sheild users who don't stack for pve
You know the cost for stacking 3 shields is like 10k magicka, right? And they only last 6 seconds, require 3 sec of gcd to cast in which you won't be able to attack, and also get burned through very quickly in no-cp. You can't continuously spam 3 shields while attacking, or even when just trying to defend. With battle spirit your magicka is like 36k, so you'll run out pretty quickly if you just spam.
https://youtu.be/Y_bWwrZcd_A
You want me to keep going ?
Even with animation canceling, its 3 global cooldowns. No getting around it.
The problem is clearly as I said earlier ..sheild stacking ...
Solution should not be to add a cast time ..
But when you cast one shield ... You can't cast another till the first has expired
So they can't be stacked
Cos sorcs cast harden ward, ward ally or what ever on the restro staff and harness magic ...
This gives them three shields and three utility aids to health regen damage mitigation and resource regen
Instead of simply making it so casting one shield over another cancels out the last one, or making it so all shields go on a cool down once one is cast preventing stacking they went a bit mental and added a cast time ... This allows sorcs to still have the buffs ... But now I stead of it being an "oh *** panic" and letting them still have an edge they're now forced to buff up prior to an engagement and if they don't get the kill they need to back up for a sheild buff ... This gives the opponent a window to get in at them ...
I understand ZoS thinking ... But they're blinded to the sorc problem and not the knock it will have to other sheild users who don't stack for pve
You know the cost for stacking 3 shields is like 10k magicka, right? And they only last 6 seconds, require 3 sec of gcd to cast in which you won't be able to attack, and also get burned through very quickly in no-cp. You can't continuously spam 3 shields while attacking, or even when just trying to defend. With battle spirit your magicka is like 36k, so you'll run out pretty quickly if you just spam.
https://youtu.be/Y_bWwrZcd_A
You want me to keep going ?
Even with animation canceling, its 3 global cooldowns. No getting around it.
The problem is clearly as I said earlier ..sheild stacking ...
Solution should not be to add a cast time ..
But when you cast one shield ... You can't cast another till the first has expired
So they can't be stacked
Because in PvP triple-shield-stacking sorcs are impossible to defeat. Everyone in PvP runs a sorc because of this, except for the handful of stam builds who are allergic to shields.
Because in PvE healers are waiting tables or begging in the streets. Everyone runs only sorcs in dungeons and trials, because insta-shields is godmode, meaning sorcs take absolutely no damage whatsoever while tanking bosses and healing the group.
Thus Nerf Sorc.
This is a lame excuse by someone who has a hard time beating sorcs. Show me a "shield stacking" sorc with enough sustain and power that's "impossible to kill".
Ah let's see in no particular order.
Reddington James
Gundysorc
Beautiful chocolate man
True legend
Perfectly perched pelican
Methuselah
King Richard when he used to play
Sypherpk when he used to play
I'm sure I can think of a dozen more if I really tried. No doubt these are all very good players but with shield mechanics currently the way they are they are impossible to kill. They never run out of stamina and never let their shield down and hit like a truck. These pros have perfected their builds and have exploited shield mechanics forever. It's time shields got a Nerf. I don't agree with 1 sec cast time but when Sorcs are stacking 50-80k shields and hitting like a damn truck there is a problem. When the general mass players have adopted their builds even the average player feels like a god to fight against.
80k shields. Seems legit. Anyone wanna go for 100k?
Sarcasm noted. You can hit 80k or come pretty damn close to it wearing imperial physique set in IC. Try fighting a maxed out sorc wearing ip during the IC event. It's ***.
Insane offense and insane defense simultaneously.
That's the problem. You should have to make a choice.
You wanna go glasscanon and hit ultra hard ? Then you shouldn't have that insane defense.
Because in PvP triple-shield-stacking sorcs are impossible to defeat. Everyone in PvP runs a sorc because of this, except for the handful of stam builds who are allergic to shields.
Because in PvE healers are waiting tables or begging in the streets. Everyone runs only sorcs in dungeons and trials, because insta-shields is godmode, meaning sorcs take absolutely no damage whatsoever while tanking bosses and healing the group.
Thus Nerf Sorc.
This is a lame excuse by someone who has a hard time beating sorcs. Show me a "shield stacking" sorc with enough sustain and power that's "impossible to kill".
Ah let's see in no particular order.
Reddington James
Gundysorc
Beautiful chocolate man
True legend
Perfectly perched pelican
Methuselah
King Richard when he used to play
Sypherpk when he used to play
I'm sure I can think of a dozen more if I really tried. No doubt these are all very good players but with shield mechanics currently the way they are they are impossible to kill. They never run out of stamina and never let their shield down and hit like a truck. These pros have perfected their builds and have exploited shield mechanics forever. It's time shields got a Nerf. I don't agree with 1 sec cast time but when Sorcs are stacking 50-80k shields and hitting like a damn truck there is a problem. When the general mass players have adopted their builds even the average player feels like a god to fight against.
80k shields. Seems legit. Anyone wanna go for 100k?
Sarcasm noted. You can hit 80k or come pretty damn close to it wearing imperial physique set in IC. Try fighting a maxed out sorc wearing ip during the IC event. It's ***.
You do realize that in IC You have battle spirit that cuts shields in half ? Basicly what You're saying is that You can have higher shields value then max magicka in PvP.
Now lets analyze the highest possible shields scenario where You have Hardened Ward , Dampen Magic and Healing Ward , You have 100% into bastion
First calculations for all the above abilities
Hardened Ward - $1 = 0.389893 Magicka + 8.66e-05 SD + 3.07619
Dampen Magic - $1 = 0.340909 Magicka + 3.23e-05 SD + 2.0439
Healing Ward - $1 = 0.093037 Magicka + 0.977077 SD + 3.01955
So we can pretty much assume Hardened take ~0,39 of max magicka , Dampen ~0,34 max magicka and Healing Ward 0,09 max mag and 0,98 spell damage to create base shield value and later that value gets multiplied by percentage numbers. Lets assume that mighty Imperial physique user will have ~65k mag and 3k spell dmg (pretty farfetched stats) so according to this and fact we'll have 25% in Bastion and 50% battle spirit we'll get shields value : Hardened ~20k , Dampen (with 5 LA pieces which is 30% buff) ~17k , Healing Ward (which gives 300% shield strenght bonus with 1% health and 0% with full health) ~21k for 1% hp and ~5k for full health. So we end up with ~42-58k shields in highest possible scenario which lets be honest will never happen. Even then it's still pretty far from 80k or "pretty damm close". In reality it'll be something more between 35-50k. For the record it's not like other builds in Imperial Physique cannot come close with their tooltips to pretty high numbers.
Lack of knowledge is ignorance if You spread misinformation instead of checking are You right.
Because in PvP triple-shield-stacking sorcs are impossible to defeat. Everyone in PvP runs a sorc because of this, except for the handful of stam builds who are allergic to shields.
Because in PvE healers are waiting tables or begging in the streets. Everyone runs only sorcs in dungeons and trials, because insta-shields is godmode, meaning sorcs take absolutely no damage whatsoever while tanking bosses and healing the group.
Thus Nerf Sorc.
This is a lame excuse by someone who has a hard time beating sorcs. Show me a "shield stacking" sorc with enough sustain and power that's "impossible to kill".
Ah let's see in no particular order.
Reddington James
Gundysorc
Beautiful chocolate man
True legend
Perfectly perched pelican
Methuselah
King Richard when he used to play
Sypherpk when he used to play
I'm sure I can think of a dozen more if I really tried. No doubt these are all very good players but with shield mechanics currently the way they are they are impossible to kill. They never run out of stamina and never let their shield down and hit like a truck. These pros have perfected their builds and have exploited shield mechanics forever. It's time shields got a Nerf. I don't agree with 1 sec cast time but when Sorcs are stacking 50-80k shields and hitting like a damn truck there is a problem. When the general mass players have adopted their builds even the average player feels like a god to fight against.
80k shields. Seems legit. Anyone wanna go for 100k?
Sarcasm noted. You can hit 80k or come pretty damn close to it wearing imperial physique set in IC. Try fighting a maxed out sorc wearing ip during the IC event. It's ***.
You do realize that in IC You have battle spirit that cuts shields in half ? Basicly what You're saying is that You can have higher shields value then max magicka in PvP.
Now lets analyze the highest possible shields scenario where You have Hardened Ward , Dampen Magic and Healing Ward , You have 100% into bastion
First calculations for all the above abilities
Hardened Ward - $1 = 0.389893 Magicka + 8.66e-05 SD + 3.07619
Dampen Magic - $1 = 0.340909 Magicka + 3.23e-05 SD + 2.0439
Healing Ward - $1 = 0.093037 Magicka + 0.977077 SD + 3.01955
So we can pretty much assume Hardened take ~0,39 of max magicka , Dampen ~0,34 max magicka and Healing Ward 0,09 max mag and 0,98 spell damage to create base shield value and later that value gets multiplied by percentage numbers. Lets assume that mighty Imperial physique user will have ~65k mag and 3k spell dmg (pretty farfetched stats) so according to this and fact we'll have 25% in Bastion and 50% battle spirit we'll get shields value : Hardened ~20k , Dampen (with 5 LA pieces which is 30% buff) ~17k , Healing Ward (which gives 300% shield strenght bonus with 1% health and 0% with full health) ~21k for 1% hp and ~5k for full health. So we end up with ~42-58k shields in highest possible scenario which lets be honest will never happen. Even then it's still pretty far from 80k or "pretty damm close". In reality it'll be something more between 35-50k. For the record it's not like other builds in Imperial Physique cannot come close with their tooltips to pretty high numbers.
Lack of knowledge is ignorance if You spread misinformation instead of checking are You right.
Sorry forgot about the battle spirit. no need to be snarky and lecture me on the merits of spreading misinformation. Guess your one of those people who gets their jollies off proving people wrong and pointing out their ignorance. A simple correction would have sufficed. But hey thanks for doing the math and proving shields are op with the fact that shields can range up to 60k.