Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

Don't forget to adjust speed potions :)

  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    this is a completely and totaly unwanted request by almost all of the population in eso.
    please stop making threads requesting nerfs.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    code65536 wrote: »
    Only poisons have diminishing duration if you stack effects. That has never been a feature of potions. I have no idea why you would even bring that up--ignorance of game mechanics?

    Check yo'self before you wreck yo'self mate - there are some potion effects that scale and some that do not. But that's not even the point - the POINT is that you can get 100% uptime on Maj Exp combined with 3 additional very strong ancillary effects, namely stamina restore, Major Endu, and Immovability.


    PickleRick wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Major exp isn't really the strongest buff at all, but I agree it shouldn't have a 100% uptime. Should be more like 60-70% uptime instead. The major exp skills should also be buffed (Major exp duration) so people actually slot and use them instead of running speed pots.

    It’s not even top 3 strongest.

    It's #1 for those that know how to use it. Not getting hit in the first place is the greatest advantage you can have.
  • Maryal
    Maryal
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    PickleRick wrote: »
    @Solariken wait, I think you’re saying that the cost for Hasty retreat is running a bow. But if you run bow just to get Hasty Retreat passive then we’ve gone over into the land of terrible build decisions. You run bow so you can engage from range, proc glyphs from range, or get the masters bow bonus(or snipe spam or some crazy bow build like @DDuke runs). Hasty retreat is just something you get for free when capitalizing on the things bow offers

    I equip a bow when farming nodes specifically for the speed buff you get after a roll dodge. I like that it is a quick, easy, and a short duration speed buff. I don't want to waste potions (speed buff) if all I'm doing is farming and I don't want to use retreating maneuvers when farming because it makes my mouse movements too hypersensitive. A 'terrible build' to one person may be an awesome build to someone else ... it really depends on play style and purpose for the build.
  • PickleRick
    PickleRick
    ✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Only poisons have diminishing duration if you stack effects. That has never been a feature of potions. I have no idea why you would even bring that up--ignorance of game mechanics?

    Check yo'self before you wreck yo'self mate - there are some potion effects that scale and some that do not. But that's not even the point - the POINT is that you can get 100% uptime on Maj Exp combined with 3 additional very strong ancillary effects, namely stamina restore, Major Endu, and Immovability.


    PickleRick wrote: »
    Rikumaru wrote: »
    Major exp isn't really the strongest buff at all, but I agree it shouldn't have a 100% uptime. Should be more like 60-70% uptime instead. The major exp skills should also be buffed (Major exp duration) so people actually slot and use them instead of running speed pots.

    It’s not even top 3 strongest.

    It's #1 for those that know how to use it. Not getting hit in the first place is the greatest advantage you can have.

    It’s soft countered by itself and gap closers.

    I’ll help you bud, top 6 strongest buffs are major berserk, immovable, snare immunity, ward, resolve, and sorcery/brutality.

    I see you want to speak up here again with no real facts and still ignore the opportunity cost of potions.
    Edited by PickleRick on September 22, 2018 2:00AM
    Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.
  • Zacuel
    Zacuel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Posts like these are funny because it's like watching a ball get passed back and forth that says "No I'm the smart one."
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Nah, I don't think it needs a nerf. I just think speed needs to be less potent and stationary more so. ATM speedy has no real downsides for a lot of classes, keep damage, build less defense, survive more in combat and can run away from it too, hells yeah my dude.
    Meanwhile if you want to hold down, you have to build so much defense you become a potato and can't escape at all, so eventually die.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • PickleRick
    PickleRick
    ✭✭✭
    Maryal wrote: »
    PickleRick wrote: »
    @Solariken wait, I think you’re saying that the cost for Hasty retreat is running a bow. But if you run bow just to get Hasty Retreat passive then we’ve gone over into the land of terrible build decisions. You run bow so you can engage from range, proc glyphs from range, or get the masters bow bonus(or snipe spam or some crazy bow build like @DDuke runs). Hasty retreat is just something you get for free when capitalizing on the things bow offers

    I equip a bow when farming nodes specifically for the speed buff you get after a roll dodge. I like that it is a quick, easy, and a short duration speed buff. I don't want to waste potions (speed buff) if all I'm doing is farming and I don't want to use retreating maneuvers when farming because it makes my mouse movements too hypersensitive. A 'terrible build' to one person may be an awesome build to someone else ... it really depends on play style and purpose for the build.

    We’re talking about PvP here, sorry that wasn’t obvious enough to you.

    But since you mention it, rapids is probably better for that since it’s a much longer duration buff
    Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.
  • code65536
    code65536
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    code65536 wrote: »
    Only poisons have diminishing duration if you stack effects. That has never been a feature of potions. I have no idea why you would even bring that up--ignorance of game mechanics?

    Namira's Rot + Blessed Thistle = 47.6 seconds
    Namira's Rot + Blessed Thistle + Scrib Jelly = 52.8 seconds

    It's the same with tri-stat pots, Lady's Smock + Columbine + Mountain Flower or Dragonthorn + Columbine + Bugloss gives 47.6 seconds Maj Fortitude whereas Mountain Flower + Columbine + Bugloss gives 52.8.

    Mentioned times are assuming you have Medicinal Use 3/3. Been that way for as long as I've been brewing potions (around a year or so).

    Um. That's not a diminishment. If a certain effect appears in all three reagents, it gets a slight duration buff in poisons. The OP is making the wild claim that adding other effects to the potion doesn't shorten the duration of the expedition buff. Well, of course it doesn't because that's only a feature of poisons and has never, ever been a feature of potions.
    Solariken wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Only poisons have diminishing duration if you stack effects. That has never been a feature of potions. I have no idea why you would even bring that up--ignorance of game mechanics?

    Check yo'self before you wreck yo'self mate - there are some potion effects that scale and some that do not. But that's not even the point - the POINT is that you can get 100% uptime on Maj Exp combined with 3 additional very strong ancillary effects, namely stamina restore, Major Endu, and Immovability.

    LOL. You are the one who said, "Even with 3 potion effects, the uptime on Major Expedition is 100%." The number of potion effects has never affected duration of any effect. That is, again, only a feature of poisons. That has never been the case for potions, for any effect in potions. Period. Show me one single potion effect that gets diminished when the potion has three effects. I'll wait...

    The fact that you would complain that expedition maintains it duration despite additional potion effects indicates a faulty understanding of how potions work--and have always worked.

    Your problem is that you don't like how Swift plus Expedition makes people insanely fast. Nobody ever complained about Expedition before Swift existed. So maybe instead of this ridiculously hamfisted attempt to nerf Expedition, you should instead look at real solutions, like lowering the speed cap for players who are in combat.
    Edited by code65536 on September 22, 2018 12:44PM
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

    Dungeons and Trials:
    Personal best scores:
    Dungeon trifectas:
    Media: YouTubeTwitch
  • Jjitsuboy98
    Jjitsuboy98
    ✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    I just wanted to toss up another reminder that the Major Expedition uptime from speed potions needs some attention.

    Even with 3 potion effects, the uptime on Major Expedition is 100%. Full uptime is fine if only one potion effect, but it overperforms significantly when combined.

    The biggest issue with speed pots is that it gives the most powerful buff in PvP with full uptime and zero explicit cost. This eliminates the primary drawback that some builds are supposed to have - namely super high weapon damage heavy armor snare-immune builds.

    It also marginalizes the active skills that grant this powerful buff but which cost actual resources to maintain.

    I would advocate for ~50% uptime after Medicinal Use passive, but it doesn't even have to be that drastic if you have good reasons why it should be longer.

    Just uninstall your game. First I pay lots of gold for these potions to not be a effin statue in this Swifty meta. Major expedition is fine.
  • Daedralex
    Daedralex
    Soul Shriven
    I think it needs adjusted too.
    Edited by Daedralex on September 22, 2018 1:28PM
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    code65536 wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Only poisons have diminishing duration if you stack effects. That has never been a feature of potions. I have no idea why you would even bring that up--ignorance of game mechanics?

    Namira's Rot + Blessed Thistle = 47.6 seconds
    Namira's Rot + Blessed Thistle + Scrib Jelly = 52.8 seconds

    It's the same with tri-stat pots, Lady's Smock + Columbine + Mountain Flower or Dragonthorn + Columbine + Bugloss gives 47.6 seconds Maj Fortitude whereas Mountain Flower + Columbine + Bugloss gives 52.8.

    Mentioned times are assuming you have Medicinal Use 3/3. Been that way for as long as I've been brewing potions (around a year or so).

    Um. That's not a diminishment. If a certain effect appears in all three reagents, it gets a slight duration buff in poisons. The OP is making the wild claim that adding other effects to the potion doesn't shorten the duration of the expedition buff. Well, of course it doesn't because that's only a feature of poisons and has never, ever been a feature of potions.
    Solariken wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Only poisons have diminishing duration if you stack effects. That has never been a feature of potions. I have no idea why you would even bring that up--ignorance of game mechanics?

    Check yo'self before you wreck yo'self mate - there are some potion effects that scale and some that do not. But that's not even the point - the POINT is that you can get 100% uptime on Maj Exp combined with 3 additional very strong ancillary effects, namely stamina restore, Major Endu, and Immovability.

    LOL. You are the one who said, "Even with 3 potion effects, the uptime on Major Expedition is 100%." The number of potion effects has never affected duration of any effect. That is, again, only a feature of poisons. That has never been the case for potions, for any effect in potions. Period. Show me one single potion effect that gets diminished when the potion has three effects. I'll wait...

    The fact that you would complain that expedition maintains it duration despite additional potion effects indicates a faulty understanding of how potions work--and have always worked.

    Your problem is that you don't like how Swift plus Expedition makes people insanely fast. Nobody ever complained about Expedition before Swift existed. So maybe instead of this ridiculously hamfisted attempt to nerf Expedition, you should instead look at real solutions, like lowering the speed cap for players who are in combat.

    I never said they diminish - quit trying to derail this discussion. I was reinforcing the argument I was making about how strong certain combinations of effects are.

    I like speed. I run speed builds. I don't think the speed cap needs changed.

    What I don't like is unbalanced tools that have such a big impact on combat without costing resources, without costing a GCD, and without a duration limit.. This needs addressed.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree there is no drawback. I have multiple potions slotted precisely because a speed pot does not always have what I want or need in a given situation.
  • code65536
    code65536
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    What I don't like is unbalanced tools that have such a big impact on combat without costing resources, without costing a GCD, and without a duration limit.. This needs addressed.

    So you don't like potions in general, then. You can get 100% uptime on Major Brutality "without costing resources, without costing a GCD, and without a duration limit." And 20% extra stam regen. And 10% weapon critical. All of those, you can get with 100% uptime. No GCD. No "cost". Are those unbalanced too? At least nobody can claim that they were killed by Expedition. :trollface:

    And stop being obtuse and claiming that potions have no cost. They do have a cost--an opportunity cost. What effect am I going to give up for the Expedition?

    Solariken wrote: »
    I like speed. I run speed builds. I don't think the speed cap needs changed.

    You're not making any sense. If you don't think that someone running around so fast that they are virtually untargetable isn't a problem, then why is Expedition a problem? Or, more specifically, why is Expedition a bigger problem than 20% weapon damage, 20% stam recovery, and/or 10% crit chance? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Your premise is that speed is a very powerful tool and that's why uptime on speed needs nerfing. And, yes, when you combine Expedition with Swift, it is a bit ludicrous. But making duration harder to obtain doesn't fix the problem. The core problem is that it's possible to stack so much combat speed that you can't target someone effectively. So either it's a problem, in which case the real solution is a stricter in-combat speed cap. Or it isn't a problem, and your case for nerfing potion duration has no leg to stand on.
    Edited by code65536 on September 22, 2018 3:02PM
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

    Dungeons and Trials:
    Personal best scores:
    Dungeon trifectas:
    Media: YouTubeTwitch
  • PickleRick
    PickleRick
    ✭✭✭
    I disagree there is no drawback. I have multiple potions slotted precisely because a speed pot does not always have what I want or need in a given situation.

    /thread

    The god has spoken
    Edited by PickleRick on September 22, 2018 2:57PM
    Come on, flip the pickle, Morty, you're not gonna regret it. The payoff is huge. I turned myself into a pickle, Morty! Boom! Big reveal! I'm a pickle! What do you think about that? I turned myself into a pickle! W-w-what are you just staring at me for, bro, I turned myself into a pickle, Morty.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    PickleRick wrote: »
    I disagree there is no drawback. I have multiple potions slotted precisely because a speed pot does not always have what I want or need in a given situation.

    /thread

    The god has spoken

    I love me some @Joy_Division wisdom drops as much as anyone - but for whatever reason he didn't respond to the issue of uptime which is what the entire OP premise is.
    code65536 wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    I like speed. I run speed builds. I don't think the speed cap needs changed.

    You're not making any sense. If you don't think that someone running around so fast that they are virtually untargetable isn't a problem, then why is Expedition a problem?

    The issue with this particular buff is uptime, like I've already said a hundred times. It's the same reason Vitality and Detection we're nerfed - unless you're going to campaign for 100% uptime on those too?
    Edited by Solariken on September 22, 2018 3:14PM
  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    code65536 wrote: »
    The core problem is that it's possible to stack so much combat speed that you can't target someone effectively. So either it's a problem, in which case the real solution is a stricter in-combat speed cap. Or it isn't a problem, and your case for nerfing potion duration has no leg to stand on.

    I think the only issue is with this games targeting system and lag. But as a bandaid fix, lowering the speed cap OR nerfing swift would certainly work.
  • code65536
    code65536
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    The issue with this particular buff is uptime, like I've already said a hundred times. It's the same reason Vitality and Detection we're nerfed - unless you're going to campaign for 100% uptime on those too?

    But what sets Vitality and Detection apart from other buffs where you are not campaigning for non-100% uptime?

    Nobody complained about speed until Swift was a thing. And the problem is clearly the stacking of Swift with Expedition in a way that breaks intended mechanics--i.e., people becoming nearly untargetable. You're asking for a duration nerf that does what? So we get 50% uptime on breaking mechanics instead of 100% uptime? And there is a discrepancy in the ease of access of Expedition. Wardens will not feel much of a potion duration nerf, for example.

    Your whole problem with potions is that you get high uptime (you also get high uptime with most other potion buffs), no GCD (same with all other potion buffs), "no cost" (patently false because you're sacrificing another potion effect), and that you can stack that with two other potion effects (yes, we know how potions work). While completely missing the actual problem. Lower the speed cap so that it's consistent with how targeting in the game works. Fixes the problem in a consistent, fair way with no loopholes or edge cases. Yet you seem hell-bent on pursuing the worst possible non-solution.
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

    Dungeons and Trials:
    Personal best scores:
    Dungeon trifectas:
    Media: YouTubeTwitch
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Solariken wrote: »
    PickleRick wrote: »
    I disagree there is no drawback. I have multiple potions slotted precisely because a speed pot does not always have what I want or need in a given situation.

    /thread

    The god has spoken

    I love me some @Joy_Division wisdom drops as much as anyone - but for whatever reason he didn't respond to the issue of uptime which is what the entire OP premise is.
    code65536 wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    I like speed. I run speed builds. I don't think the speed cap needs changed.

    You're not making any sense. If you don't think that someone running around so fast that they are virtually untargetable isn't a problem, then why is Expedition a problem?

    The issue with this particular buff is uptime, like I've already said a hundred times. It's the same reason Vitality and Detection we're nerfed - unless you're going to campaign for 100% uptime on those too?

    Zos doesn;'t have a 50% uptime for potion buffs, it's either 40 or 15 seconds. In my estimation, Immovability, Stealth detection, and Major Vitality are all superior buffs than major expedition and reducing the uptime to 15 seconds or so would mean to over-nerf the trait. I would not put major expedition in that class.
    Edited by Joy_Division on September 22, 2018 5:10PM
Sign In or Register to comment.