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Should a pipe smoking emote be added to the game?

nursingninja
nursingninja
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Should a pipe smoking emote be added to the game? 126 votes

Yes
80%
Moloch1514GrekhopajSporvanKlemenziusb16_ESOHrogunthomas1970b16_ESOvrinejimijac0meSheezabeastWolfpawsdtlcCHVINZZDarkhorse1975ArcirisGrimm13greyloxKelcesCorpierTheShadowScout 102 votes
No
19%
NestoridkStreegaDanteYodaForztrGarishEvilKiwiAetherderiussix2fallADarkloreEirikirCadburyRGvolterraBeardimusLeogonDBZVelenaKeldheirMaryalDirkRavenclawAVaelham 24 votes
  • greylox
    greylox
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    Yes
    Absolutely. It's rated mature, loadsa fantasy characters smoke pipes, smoking is cool and you could have smoke ring emotes! No doubt someone will be triggered by virtual smoking though....
    PC EU

    House of the Black Lotus
    *{Smokes-in-the-Shade }* (Mag pet Sorc Argonian, prolific thief, willing participant of the dark arts, gardener of exotic...herbs)
    {Lugdum The Mechanist} (Hybrid Orc Templar, collector of ancient Ayleid smoking pipes)
    {Rantoul} (Dark Elf Magknight, likes an ale between boss fights, has been known to offer daedric princes out in a fist fight)
    {Red, The Wanderer} (Bosmer stam sorc and hunter extraordinaire)
    {Shoots-For-Stars} (Argonian Mag pet Sorc Ice mage Healer)
    *{Jinny the spark }* (Sassy Imperial Stamplar)
    {Crezzi the Drifter} (Magblade khajiit burglar, available for questionable operations)
    {Grif the Despised} (StamKnight Tank Nord, Eastmarch Master Drinker and spinner of tall yarns)
    {Geraldine Stone-Heart} (High Elf MagSorc Ice Tank, Mystic, practitioner of the ancient arts)
    *{Anawinn}* (Stam pet Ward Redguard, Mother to a bear and an unruly Hunger,Librarian, field medic and natures fist)

    {*}Mains
    { CP 900+ }

    Caretaker of Battle Island (Grand Topal), the holiday destination for the discerning warrior
    Residing in Stay-Moist Mansion-Shadowfen - The Smoking Den (as of 6th feb 2017)

  • Saeralyhn
    Saeralyhn
    Yes
    I personally wouldn't use it, but if people enjoy it, why not let them?
    #ToggleTheFlaps
  • DBZVelena
    DBZVelena
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    No
    We do not condone the promotion of the use of smoking paraphernalia.
    What are Natch Potes? Can you eat those?
    I believe in Genie-Gina.
  • Pwoo
    Pwoo
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    Yes
    There's already a Skooma bubbler in the game, no harm in adding an emote as well... for RP purposes obviously.
    PC EU - @Pwooo in game - chronic crafting writ doer
  • Prabooo
    Prabooo
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    Yes
    yes please
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    No
    While I would love to see this, it is one of those things that would bring negative attention to the game, mostly from non gamers who do not appreciate RP nuances. It would be seen as an encouragment to smoking by the various nanny groups that "know whats best for us and will rise up to save us from ourselves"


    Bonus if you know what Rush song the quoted phrase comes from
    Edited by Nestor on August 13, 2018 4:06PM
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Yes
    I dont smoke and I dislike smoking, but I dont see why not. Let it happen.
  • RaddlemanNumber7
    RaddlemanNumber7
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    Yes
    Maybe as part of a wiseacre personality.
    PC EU
  • Hippie4927
    Hippie4927
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    Yes
    Nestor wrote: »
    While I would love to see this, it is one of those things that would bring negative attention to the game, mostly from non gamers who do not appreciate RP nuances. It would be seen as an encouragment to smoking by the various nanny groups that "know whats best for us and will rise up to save us from ourselves"


    Bonus if you know what Rush song the quoted phrase comes from

    "Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
    Confident their ways are best"
    PC/NA/EP ✌️
  • Wildberryjack
    Wildberryjack
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    Yes
    Please and yes. I would buy this. But it must be along curved pipe, like Gandalf smokes. Thanks!
    The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso
  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    No
    There is no precident for pipe smoking in lore. A skooma bubbler, maybe, but not a pipe. Tobacco is not a thing in the game world.
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    No
    Hippie4927 wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    While I would love to see this, it is one of those things that would bring negative attention to the game, mostly from non gamers who do not appreciate RP nuances. It would be seen as an encouragment to smoking by the various nanny groups that "know whats best for us and will rise up to save us from ourselves"


    Bonus if you know what Rush song the quoted phrase comes from

    "Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
    Confident their ways are best"

    Winner winner
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • Hippie4927
    Hippie4927
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    Yes
    Nestor wrote: »
    Hippie4927 wrote: »
    Nestor wrote: »
    While I would love to see this, it is one of those things that would bring negative attention to the game, mostly from non gamers who do not appreciate RP nuances. It would be seen as an encouragment to smoking by the various nanny groups that "know whats best for us and will rise up to save us from ourselves"


    Bonus if you know what Rush song the quoted phrase comes from

    "Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
    Confident their ways are best"

    Winner winner

    Chicken dinner?
    PC/NA/EP ✌️
  • Kelces
    Kelces
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    Yes
    Nestor wrote: »
    While I would love to see this, it is one of those things that would bring negative attention to the game, mostly from non gamers who do not appreciate RP nuances. It would be seen as an encouragment to smoking by the various nanny groups that "know whats best for us and will rise up to save us from ourselves"


    Bonus if you know what Rush song the quoted phrase comes from

    True, but it is an art form after all and that should never be narrowed through any moral stanards from our reality, because it is a fantasy world. So let's imagine some non-toxic smoking in tamriel, which even can act in beneficial ways for people's health, if the writers want it so...
    Starlock wrote: »
    There is no precident for pipe smoking in lore. A skooma bubbler, maybe, but not a pipe. Tobacco is not a thing in the game world.

    Who said, it has to be called Tobacco? Infinite possibilities here... :wink:
    Edited by Kelces on August 13, 2018 6:18PM
    You reveal yourself best in how you play.

    Kelces - Argonian Templar
    Farel Donvu - Dark Elf Sorcerer
    Navam Llervu - Dark Elf Dragonknight
    Aniseth - Wood Elf Warden
    Therediel - Wood Elf Templar
    Nilonwy - Wood Elf Nightblade
    Jurupari - Argonian Warden
    Kú-Chulainn - Argonian Sorcerer
    PC - EU
    For the Pact!
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    No
    There are a couple of pipes you can get from Legerdemain activites
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

  • idk
    idk
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    No
    Smoking is bad for our characters health.
  • bongtokin420insd16
    bongtokin420insd16
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    Yes
    lol and just what do you think a skooma pipe is for? Smoking skooma of course .....
    Kaz_Wastelander PS4NA
  • RaddlemanNumber7
    RaddlemanNumber7
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    Yes
    Starlock wrote: »
    There is no precident for pipe smoking in lore. A skooma bubbler, maybe, but not a pipe. Tobacco is not a thing in the game world.

    There are pipes placed as furniture items scattered around all over the game. Dozens of them.


    PC EU
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    Yes
    Wouldn't mind a pipe emote or a cigar rolling emote... for that skooma
    Edited by Kalik_Gold on August 16, 2018 11:07PM
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade

    Leveling...
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion

  • Sgtmeg
    Sgtmeg
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    Yes
    Starlock wrote: »
    There is no precident for pipe smoking in lore. A skooma bubbler, maybe, but not a pipe. Tobacco is not a thing in the game world.

    Tobacco is an alchemy ingredient in Oblivion.
  • platonicidealgirlfriend
    Yes
    Nestor wrote: »
    While I would love to see this, it is one of those things that would bring negative attention to the game, mostly from non gamers who do not appreciate RP nuances. It would be seen as an encouragment to smoking by the various nanny groups that "know whats best for us and will rise up to save us from ourselves"


    Bonus if you know what Rush song the quoted phrase comes from

    id be shocked if anyone reported on a 4-year-old mmo adding an obscure emote
    Starlock wrote: »
    There is no precident for pipe smoking in lore. A skooma bubbler, maybe, but not a pipe. Tobacco is not a thing in the game world.

    http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Tobacco

    and let's not forget the wonderful stealables ESO gave us:

    Alchemical Igniter
    This gold-plated device, designed to ignite a smoking pipe, was crafted by the great Telenger, and bears his mark.

    Bosmeri Noble's Omnium-Gatherum
    Combination folding corkscrew, pipe-cleaner, and crystal quizzing glass, with the crest of House Caerllin, in a chamois pouch.

    Bramblebreach Pipe
    A long and heavy pipe, constructed of smooth wood. The skilled craftsmanship sets it apart from others of its kind.

    Meerschaum Sweetgnat Kiseru
    Long-shanked, small-bowled pipe carved from meerschaum, used in Karthdar for smoking small dried bugs like sweetgnats.

    Olive-Wood Pipe
    A lacquered wooden pipe, cut from a Craglorn olive tree.

    This list isn't comprehensive and intentionally leaves out pipes that are explicitly for skooma.
    Edited by platonicidealgirlfriend on August 15, 2018 7:41AM
  • Hrogun
    Hrogun
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    Yes
    Pipe-weed farming has always been one of my favorite activities in Lotro. Considering that Oblivion gives us Tobacco, I would be delighted to see the same thing available in ESO. Take fishing, do the same thing with tobacco.
    PC EU
    Healer
  • Grimm13
    Grimm13
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    Yes
    Not a smoker but I am not against an emote in game. Too many worried folks out there concerned what it might look like, a more realistic world. Besides I have my "Kiss This" emote why others have a smoking one. /kissthis
    https://sparkforautism.org/

    Season of DraggingOn
    It's your choice on how you vote with your $

    PC-NA
  • DanteYoda
    DanteYoda
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    No
    No promoting addictions is not a smart move for companies these days, especially where children play.
    Edited by DanteYoda on August 16, 2018 4:43AM
  • Hippie4927
    Hippie4927
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    Yes
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    No promoting addictions is not a smart move for companies these days, especially where children play.

    There's already skooma and lots of mead and pipes laying on tables and, besides, children aren't supposed to be playing here!
    PC/NA/EP ✌️
  • DanteYoda
    DanteYoda
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    No
    Hippie4927 wrote: »
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    No promoting addictions is not a smart move for companies these days, especially where children play.

    There's already skooma and lots of mead and pipes laying on tables and, besides, children aren't supposed to be playing here!

    Under age Teens still can..
  • ArthurMatheson
    Yes
    DBZVelena wrote: »
    We do not condone the promotion of the use of smoking paraphernalia.

    Well, you have lots of drunkards in Tamriel and even drunk emotes, does that mean ESO condones drinking booze until you pass out? Nope, I haven't heard anyone against it and alchol is very much a poison that can cause severe problems to your body including death but smoking a pipe? JESUS GET THE CROSS!
    It's a double standard
  • ArthurMatheson
    Yes
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    Under age Teens still can..

    The fact underage people are still able to play the game even if they're not supposed to doesn't mean a thing, underage people are not supposed to be playing the game, if they see something they're too young for that's their and their parents' responsibility, not Zenimax's if they ever will decide to implement such thing in the game.
    Edited by ArthurMatheson on August 19, 2018 6:38AM
  • Maryal
    Maryal
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    No
    Smoking is not cool. It's not a flattering look and it makes you smell bad. It reminds me of that saying "stupid is as stupid does". Why not just wear a placard that says 'kick me' instead.
    Edited by Maryal on August 19, 2018 6:42AM
  • ArthurMatheson
    Yes
    idk wrote: »
    Smoking is bad for our characters health.

    I hope you're kidding.. characters are fictional and the ability to use an emote where your character smokes doesn't mean you're forced to use it, in my head my character doesn't drink, dance and doesn't know how to play any instruments outside of the drum, I just don't use those emotes. Bringing unhealthy habits as well in the emotes just add more character options like "he doesn't indulge much in smoking but doesn't refuse when offered", "he collects pipes and loves to show off once in a while", "he's an alchemical herbalist that specializes in smokable medicine" or "he's a low class chain smoker, keeps coffing and wheezing because of that and everyone looks down on him, but he's got the best insight in magic than all of them so they try to stand him at least during expeditions"
    It makes character, even if an unhealthy one, and that only adds to the social interactions that emotes are supposed to be part of, why are you allowed to be a genocidal murderer ingame and can get away with all your crimes trough bribes and corruption but can't use a pipe?
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