Avran_Sylt wrote: »@gepe87
The spammable doesn't need HP restore, you'd get that from the Blood Magic Passive.
I'm gonna argue that Shards gives the impression of smaller, and Blast larger. Shards becomes the Instant at base.
@Amdar_Godkiller @Tannus15
You say that no class needs a spammable, but then go right around and contradict yourselves...
"Overload is your Spammable"
"Use the Psijic One"
So, are spammables necessary? Does it not make sense for a class to have at least one it it's toolkit?
The *** point isn't to have it be the only choice of spammable, but to have a spammable unique in function to that class. To fit Thematically, if not applying a unique twist.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »@gepe87
The spammable doesn't need HP restore, you'd get that from the Blood Magic Passive.
I'm gonna argue that Shards gives the impression of smaller, and Blast larger. Shards becomes the Instant at base.
@Amdar_Godkiller @Tannus15
You say that no class needs a spammable, but then go right around and contradict yourselves...
"Overload is your Spammable"
"Use the Psijic One"
So, are spammables necessary? Does it not make sense for a class to have at least one it it's toolkit?
The *** point isn't to have it be the only choice of spammable, but to have a spammable unique in function to that class. To fit Thematically, if not applying a unique twist.
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »@gepe87
The spammable doesn't need HP restore, you'd get that from the Blood Magic Passive.
I'm gonna argue that Shards gives the impression of smaller, and Blast larger. Shards becomes the Instant at base.
@Amdar_Godkiller @Tannus15
You say that no class needs a spammable, but then go right around and contradict yourselves...
"Overload is your Spammable"
"Use the Psijic One"
So, are spammables necessary? Does it not make sense for a class to have at least one it it's toolkit?
The *** point isn't to have it be the only choice of spammable, but to have a spammable unique in function to that class. To fit Thematically, if not applying a unique twist.
Spammables aren't a necessary part of any classes unique toolkit anymore than hard ccs (warden), executes (dragonknights), gap closers (warden), or stamina heals (all non-wardens) are because these things exist in other skill lines.
Sorc has too many good things currently. A better-than-the-generic-destro-spammable option would be ludicrous.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Amdar_Godkiller
The thing is Sorcs aren't restricted from using an easily attained spammable...
Standard Overworld interactions use a spammable just like every other class in the game, like elemental weapon or Force Pulse.
They simply lack one to call their own, and have to use less while other classes have more. (NB specifically).
They lack one that fits THEMATICALLY with the rest of their kit, or one that signifies: Hey, I'm a Sorc.
It quite literally works to make the class feel less unique, because of how much it shares with other classes in that regard.
Frags is a mere husk of its former self. Revert it or take it out of its misery.
This.
Rather than meddling with Cage and back tracking - could have just left it as it was.
I'm up for a Frag empower via Bound Aegis tho, rather (or in addition to) the block cost reduction no one's using in PVP
Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Avran_Sylt wrote: »@Amdar_Godkiller
The thing is Sorcs aren't restricted from using an easily attained spammable...
Standard Overworld interactions use a spammable just like every other class in the game, like elemental weapon or Force Pulse.
They simply lack one to call their own, and have to use less while other classes have more. (NB specifically).
They lack one that fits THEMATICALLY with the rest of their kit, or one that signifies: Hey, I'm a Sorc.
It quite literally works to make the class feel less unique, because of how much it shares with other classes in that regard.
Then we should give those other classes a spammable so that in lacking one, Sorcs will feel more unique. They don't need anything more in their toolkit.
Sorcs having a class spammable is counter intuitive to the classes intended gameplay. It doesn't need one, at least not one like the other classes. Sorc burst is currently not where it needs to be and what most fail to realize is that the damage on Rune Cage was more beneficial to the class than the actual CC. The biggest issue is that zerglings now use the skill too and it is very strong in a zerg context. 1v1/1vx perspective, the CC is irrelevant, but that extra 8k tooltip damage is what kills most players.
Giving the burst class a class spammable would severely overpower the class. What the class needs is a way to either increase their burst or deal passive damage. Ideally the second route is the way to go as it maintains a moderate level of TTK, so giving the class a DoT as a "class spammable" is the best way to go. Not a strong one, but maybe one along the strength of Noxious Breath and applies Minor Breach.
that would at least provide reasons to use one over the other.
There is one issue however :
Blood Magic - IWhen you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability, you heal for 10% of your Max Health. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
this passive basically means you can't have a spammable in the dark magic line. You just get too much healing for free. It's 1700 health every cast for most dps. Between this and surge sorcs would have an insane amount of self heals while putting out a lot of damage.
Honestly I'd prefer to get a lightning damage based spammable.
change endless fury to do significantly more damage on the initial hit, remove the execute and slightly reduce the cost. I'd probably add something else to differentiate it from other spammables. minor breach? extra damage on crit? keep the explosion damage to nearby enemies? doesn't really matter.
Leave mages wrath alone so that sorcs can choose between the spammable or the execute.
that would at least provide reasons to use one over the other.
There is one issue however :
Blood Magic - IWhen you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability, you heal for 10% of your Max Health. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
this passive basically means you can't have a spammable in the dark magic line. You just get too much healing for free. It's 1700 health every cast for most dps. Between this and surge sorcs would have an insane amount of self heals while putting out a lot of damage.
Honestly I'd prefer to get a lightning damage based spammable.
change endless fury to do significantly more damage on the initial hit, remove the execute and slightly reduce the cost. I'd probably add something else to differentiate it from other spammables. minor breach? extra damage on crit? keep the explosion damage to nearby enemies? doesn't really matter.
Leave mages wrath alone so that sorcs can choose between the spammable or the execute.
Wait, don't Warden's have this with cutting dive (healing from spamable)
Avran_Sylt wrote: »
Avran_Sylt wrote: »So, apparently Crystal Shards and it's morphs aren't really used by sorcs in rotations. News to me as I don't play that class. Turns out that it also doesn't have a class instant spammable. Like. Every. Other. Class. And usually uses the Destro Staff Spammable.
Not sure if this will appease anyone, but this is my suggestion (unfortunately only benefiting MagSorc ATM):
Take that % proc from the Current Frags. Discard it.
Crystal Shards Slap this effect onto the base skill:
-With this ability slotted, any excess magicka used casting abilities (includes itself) is siphoned away, and after casting 3 Magicka abilities, your next Crystal Shards cast will be empowered.
-While Empowered, this ability becomes Instant-Cast. (Inherited by all morphs)
Change CFrags to become Instant Cast, with reduced damage on the standard cast (in-line with other spammables) but with greater Empowered Damage (current CFrags damage)
-By flinging smaller crystals you deal less damage, but can cast much faster. Your Empowered cast also deals more damage.
(Likely needing a new crystal model and/or faster projectile speed)
Remove the base stun from CBlast, keep the AoE.
-You form more crystals while casting, and agitate them, causing them to move slower, but also to explode upon impact, dealing damage to nearby foes. The Empowered Cast Stuns the Target.
(It keeps the current projectile speed, but has an instant cast animation).
Sorcs having a class spammable is counter intuitive to the classes intended gameplay. It doesn't need one, at least not one like the other classes. Sorc burst is currently not where it needs to be and what most fail to realize is that the damage on Rune Cage was more beneficial to the class than the actual CC. The biggest issue is that zerglings now use the skill too and it is very strong in a zerg context. 1v1/1vx perspective, the CC is irrelevant, but that extra 8k tooltip damage is what kills most players.
Giving the burst class a class spammable would severely overpower the class. What the class needs is a way to either increase their burst or deal passive damage. Ideally the second route is the way to go as it maintains a moderate level of TTK, so giving the class a DoT as a "class spammable" is the best way to go. Not a strong one, but maybe one along the strength of Noxious Breath and applies Minor Breach.
This extra 8K damage tooltip will be nerfed to 8K damage tooltip if the CC end naturally ( it mean you take 0 damage if you break free within 5 sec, if you don't it's a L2P issue ).
I don't know about a sorc spammable, I feel it would make the class boring, "liquid..wall ...fragfragfragfragfrag..." + they never rework a skill 2 times, it mean we will be stuck with a boring skill.
I would prefer them to make the skill polyvalent = it would work differently depending on how you use it, if you hard cast a frag then use a frag proc, if you use a frag proc then hard cast a frag ... If you use other skills before using the frag proc ... if you don't use the frag proc ... see the comment #41
What you mean by " a dot as a class spammable " ? something like liquid lightning ? Maybe they could rework encase and make it a dot or something cool
Encase: Call daedric shard from the earth under one enemy, they follow the target and deal X damage ( less than liquid ofc ) over 8/12 seconds.
Restraining Prison: You can apply this dot to 2 target at the same times, if you use your instant crystal ( crystal proc) it will create 2 crystal ( one in each hand ) and bombard both enemy at the same times. ( pfiou, took me 15 minute to write that, very hard to explain )
Sorcs having a class spammable is counter intuitive to the classes intended gameplay. It doesn't need one, at least not one like the other classes. Sorc burst is currently not where it needs to be and what most fail to realize is that the damage on Rune Cage was more beneficial to the class than the actual CC. The biggest issue is that zerglings now use the skill too and it is very strong in a zerg context. 1v1/1vx perspective, the CC is irrelevant, but that extra 8k tooltip damage is what kills most players.
Giving the burst class a class spammable would severely overpower the class. What the class needs is a way to either increase their burst or deal passive damage. Ideally the second route is the way to go as it maintains a moderate level of TTK, so giving the class a DoT as a "class spammable" is the best way to go. Not a strong one, but maybe one along the strength of Noxious Breath and applies Minor Breach.
This extra 8K damage tooltip will be nerfed to 8K damage tooltip if the CC end naturally ( it mean you take 0 damage if you break free within 5 sec, if you don't it's a L2P issue ).
I don't know about a sorc spammable, I feel it would make the class boring, "liquid..wall ...fragfragfragfragfrag..." + they never rework a skill 2 times, it mean we will be stuck with a boring skill.
I would prefer them to make the skill polyvalent = it would work differently depending on how you use it, if you hard cast a frag then use a frag proc, if you use a frag proc then hard cast a frag ... If you use other skills before using the frag proc ... if you don't use the frag proc ... see the comment #41
What you mean by " a dot as a class spammable " ? something like liquid lightning ? Maybe they could rework encase and make it a dot or something cool
Encase: Call daedric shard from the earth under one enemy, they follow the target and deal X damage ( less than liquid ofc ) over 8/12 seconds.
Restraining Prison: You can apply this dot to 2 target at the same times, if you use your instant crystal ( crystal proc) it will create 2 crystal ( one in each hand ) and bombard both enemy at the same times. ( pfiou, took me 15 minute to write that, very hard to explain )
Not liquid lightning but more like venomous claw (sDK) but obviously less damage.
What you're suggesting is too complex for ESO. No other skill works like that. At most you could make C-Frag behave differently based on the weapon equipped (Melee/Destro/Resto) Melee would stun, destro would deal more damage, resto would provide a larger heal etc.
Encase is meant to be a defensive skill. Shouldn't become offensive. That role is already taken by Mines. Daedric Tomb should be changed to drop mines periodically to emulate Eternal Hunt. That alone would actually be equivalent to a class spammable. The damage is very significant. The problem with Minefields is it is too situational and very strong in a 1v1 setting (so it can't be buffed). It also does not fit into the sorc "mobile" defence.
yeah i believe this would be too complex. But sorc being too easy to take in hand is one of the reason people think it should not be " that strong ". Making it more complex would reward skillful gameplay.
I like the melee/destro/resto idea, maybe it could also be based on the range ? If you cast it melee it deal the current ammount of damage and deals up to X% more damage agaisnt enemies at longer range. ( or the contrary, increase the frag damage if you are melee and keep the current damage if you are at 41 meters.