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Sorc - Frags becoming a Class Spammable, Blast becoming the old CFrags Proc?

Avran_Sylt
Avran_Sylt
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So, apparently Crystal Shards and it's morphs aren't really used by sorcs in rotations. News to me as I don't play that class. Turns out that it also doesn't have a class instant spammable. Like. Every. Other. Class. And usually uses the Destro Staff Spammable.

Not sure if this will appease anyone, but this is my suggestion (unfortunately only benefiting MagSorc ATM):

Take that % proc from the Current Frags. Discard it.

Crystal Shards Slap this effect onto the base skill:
-With this ability slotted, any excess magicka used casting abilities (includes itself) is siphoned away, and after casting 3 Magicka abilities, your next Crystal Shards cast will be empowered.
-While Empowered, this ability becomes Instant-Cast. (Inherited by all morphs)

Change CFrags to become Instant Cast, with reduced damage on the standard cast (in-line with other spammables) but with greater Empowered Damage (current CFrags damage)
-By flinging smaller crystals you deal less damage, but can cast much faster. Your Empowered cast also deals more damage.
(Likely needing a new crystal model and/or faster projectile speed)

Remove the base stun from CBlast, keep the AoE.
-You form more crystals while casting, and agitate them, causing them to move slower, but also to explode upon impact, dealing damage to nearby foes. The Empowered Cast Stuns the Target.
(It keeps the current projectile speed, but has an instant cast animation).
Edited by Avran_Sylt on July 31, 2018 8:27PM

Sorc - Frags becoming a Class Spammable, Blast becoming the old CFrags Proc? 47 votes

I don't like it
46%
GloryReloader84Dymencesix2fallAlexTheLionJjitsuboy98Toc de MalsviNateS4JinMorired_emuLiquidPonyLarry78NelothNoszetfrankwchenzoBleuZephyrMyGTXHixtoryJXNwarriorGalarthor 22 votes
I like it
27%
falcasternub18_ESOTannus15MinalanFranieckAedarylsentientomegaOxaliasMicah_Bayercoop500ruikkarikunPhoenixGreyJobooAGSSercisil 13 votes
Other
25%
idkSilverWFApheriustemplesusAnti_VirusTremorsMorgul667KyuremBlackNyassaVgepe87IAVITNIezio45 12 votes
  • Tremors
    Tremors
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    Other
    Honestly would just rather they buff the damage/% slightly and make it free cast.
    From XBOX to PC/NA - the grind is real
  • bardx86
    bardx86
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    Increase the damage. Make it travel faster.
    Elured Fury PC_NA
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    I don't like it
    To me, the Crystal Frags proc is one of the defining features of the sorc. I don't think that part should be changed.

    Increase its damage, make it free to cast on proc. It draws obvious comparisons to the magblade's Spectral Bow ... which is free to cast, does significantly more damage, and is procced from a skill that aids with sustain (and PvE sorcs have no sustain tools). Maybe it's worth exploring adding a status effect on impact, like Concussion or Off-Balance.

    The main problem I have with making it a "spammable" (aside from what I stated above) is that it is one-sided. Stamsorcs still wouldn't have a class spammable.
    Edited by LiquidPony on July 31, 2018 8:50PM
  • Tremors
    Tremors
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    Other
    bardx86 wrote: »
    Increase the damage. Make it travel faster.

    Please god yes, get rid of that proc channel.
    From XBOX to PC/NA - the grind is real
  • Tremors
    Tremors
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    Other
    LiquidPony wrote: »
    To me, the Crystal Frags proc is one of the defining features of the sorc. I don't think that part should be changed.

    Increase its damage, make it free to cast on proc. It draws obvious comparisons to the magblade's Spectral Bow ... which is free to cast, does significantly more damage, and is procced from a skill that aids with sustain (and PvE sorcs have no sustain tools). Maybe it's worth exploring adding a status effect on impact, like Concussion or Off-Balance.

    The main problem I have with making it a "spammable" (aside from what I stated above) is that it is one-sided. Stamsorcs still wouldn't have a class spammable.

    Adding the off balance would be cool and then build in a magicka restore component to their kit when the target is concussed or off balance.
    From XBOX to PC/NA - the grind is real
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    @LiquidPony

    Eh, does it really have to be the same skill though?

    Why not remove the Active Block Cost reduction from Bound Armor, replace it with the Passive Minor Resolve/Ward while slotted. Push the Active Block Cost reduction onto Bound Aegis, and make Bound Armaments have the sorc swing with a summoned Dremora sword as an instant cast ability?
  • nemvar
    nemvar
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    Frags is a mere husk of its former self. Revert it or take it out of its misery.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    I like it
    that would at least provide reasons to use one over the other.
    There is one issue however :

    Blood Magic - IWhen you hit an enemy with a Dark Magic ability, you heal for 10% of your Max Health. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.

    this passive basically means you can't have a spammable in the dark magic line. You just get too much healing for free. It's 1700 health every cast for most dps. Between this and surge sorcs would have an insane amount of self heals while putting out a lot of damage.

    Honestly I'd prefer to get a lightning damage based spammable.

    change endless fury to do significantly more damage on the initial hit, remove the execute and slightly reduce the cost. I'd probably add something else to differentiate it from other spammables. minor breach? extra damage on crit? keep the explosion damage to nearby enemies? doesn't really matter.

    Leave mages wrath alone so that sorcs can choose between the spammable or the execute.
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    @Tannus15

    Out of curiosity, are there any sorc builds out there that currently use that passive to good effect?
  • SilverWF
    SilverWF
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    Other
    Increase damage and make it insta cast and increase projectile speed and add knockback effect
    I am Russian!
    PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 780+, Lich'Er (mag Sorc, Altmer), Licherr (stam NB, Cat), Alt F'Four (mag NB, Sax), Licher'Tank (stam DK, Viking), Licher'Heal (mag Templar, Lizard), Mehden (stam Mehden, Cannibal), Licher (crafter).
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  • Emma_Overload
    Emma_Overload
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    Why can't they make Frags strong enough to actually KILL someone? Why are Sorcs forced to wait for Meteor combo before we can kill anything? Why do NBs get to kill people with 20K Assassin's Will which hits harder than any ultimate Sorcs can use?

    ZOS, FIX FRAGS!

    Edited by Emma_Overload on August 1, 2018 12:04AM
    #CAREBEARMASTERRACE
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    I don't like it
    Avran_Sylt wrote: »
    @LiquidPony

    Eh, does it really have to be the same skill though?

    Why not remove the Active Block Cost reduction from Bound Armor, replace it with the Passive Minor Resolve/Ward while slotted. Push the Active Block Cost reduction onto Bound Aegis, and make Bound Armaments have the sorc swing with a summoned Dremora sword as an instant cast ability?

    I'm not really sure I agree with the premise that sorcs need a class spammable in the first place. StamDKs don't have a class spammable, either.

    We've got Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Shrouded Daggers, Rapid Strikes, Crushing/Elemental Weapon, Wrecking Bro, etc.

    But anyway, Bound Armaments provides +5% max stamina and +11% light attack damage while slotted. I wouldn't want to give those perks up for a spammable and there's no easy way to convert that into an active skill (i.e., +5% max stamina from an active skill would be cumbersome).

    But I don't know ... I understand where you're coming from but, at least for me, the sound of a Crystal Frag proccing and firing it is quintessential magsorc for me. Frags is what I think of when I think of a sorc. So if it were me, I'd keep the Crystal Frags morph as is except give it a modest damage increase (10% maybe?) and make it a free cast on proc. Then I'd trash the other morph and make it something similar to Flames of Oblivion, so that Stamsorcs could use it and have a way to proc Minor Prophecy and bring something useful to a group.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    I like it
    Why can't they make Frags strong enough to actually KILL someone? Why are Sorcs forced to wait for Meteor combo before we can kill anything? Why do NBs' get to kill people with 20K Assassin's Will which hits harder than any ultimate Sorcs can use?

    ZOS, FIX FRAGS!

    GAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    omg.

    A SORC claiming they never get to kill anything. Now I really have seen it all. If you're not getting kills as a Sorc then you're not casting mages wrath enough. That skill is ridiculously strong in PvP.
    Avran_Sylt wrote: »
    @Tannus15

    Out of curiosity, are there any sorc builds out there that currently use that passive to good effect?

    Not that i'm aware of. Like, you'd have to do a crystal blast build. as a spammable. which would be terrible. Blast is too expensive and doesn't hit hard enough to work.

    I think.

    I've never tried it cause it seems like a terrible idea. I guess I'll find out tonight.
  • paulychan
    paulychan
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    By the time I picked up this game, CF was already nerfed. I had it in my rotation but felt it actually lowered my dps. Sord spammable is crushing grasp, or whatever the one that interrupts spell casters is called (Destro skill). Otherwise, the spammable is the mages fury or whatever. It’s useless.
    My pet build has great dps and a simple rotation without CF.
    Meanwhile my magblade just laughs
    Edited by paulychan on August 1, 2018 1:01AM
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    @LiquidPony

    Eh, to each their own. Personally I enjoy being able to choose a variety of damage applications for a spammable. (NB has Direct Melee (SA) + Flurry (Channel) + Cast-time (Wrecking) + LA Empower (CW))).

    Only thing that Sorc Stam lacks is Direct Melee spammable. (DK is another issue for another time).

    Regarding Bound Armaments as a Spammable.
    Oh, you wouldn't be giving up those perks. They'd still be part of the ability, and passive to boot. It'd just be that the ability is also a spammable contender in the active sense. (Likely having lower base damage compared to other spammables given the bonuses that it provides).

    Such that you could slot it as a spammble, (replacing your current spammable with something like Blade Cloak, but losing out on the likely higher damage spammable), or slot it as a passive buff that nudges up your desired spammable. (hopefully evening out)

    For most Stam-Sorc builds I see it currently double-barred using Crushing Weapon. Assuming as a spammable it evens out with Crushing Weapon it could replace it and add in a utility ability, or another DoT. (Or simply because it's an instance of Melee damage whereas Crushing weapon is not)

    Or, you could instead keep it barred and gain increased damage from the passives alongside a more damaging spammable.

    It shouldn't cause a meta shift, but just add in a new option for players to use.

    But eh. I'm just shooting in the dark.

    In regards to Mag Sorc, They don't have a Direct Ranged spammable (outisde of using a Masters staff, once again, available to all classes, and uses item slots). Like how MagNB does with Funnel Health. Which just seems silly to me as sorcs are supposed to be wizards, and the assumption would be that they have a Staple ranged skill. Lightning bolt, etc. (I just like the idea of chucking crystal shards at an enemy)
    Edited by Avran_Sylt on August 1, 2018 1:11AM
  • templesus
    templesus
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    Other
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.
    PS4 NA

    Orc Stamplar | Breton Magplar

    1vX/Small Scale PvPer, Dueler, & Endgame PvEer
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    I like it
    templesus wrote: »
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.

    Can we stop the "you can't have nice things cause i don't have nice things" ... thing?

    It's ok to fix the mag sorc before the stam sorc or vice versa.
  • idk
    idk
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    Other
    It really is not that simple.
    Really, idk
  • templesus
    templesus
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    Other
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.

    Can we stop the "you can't have nice things cause i don't have nice things" ... thing?

    It's ok to fix the mag sorc before the stam sorc or vice versa.

    MagSorc is already the top performing magicka PvP class and 2nd best magicka PvE class, why would we buff a class already at the top?

    My point was to refute the claim that MagSorc was the only class without a class based spammable. It is a common misconception that such is the case, and misconceptions lead to false ideaology that certain classes need buffed. By correcting the misconception I can stop people from believing in the false ideaology.

    Amazing what a single semester of Psychology in college teaches you.
    PS4 NA

    Orc Stamplar | Breton Magplar

    1vX/Small Scale PvPer, Dueler, & Endgame PvEer
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    @templesus

    read my responses to @LiquidPony. Seems that reading comprehension wasn't taught alongside that psychology course.
  • Amdar_Godkiller
    Amdar_Godkiller
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    There are broken classes that need fixing. Mag Sorc is as far from this as they can possibly be.

  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    The problem with changing frags to a spammable is that this would need a hefty damage reduction, and you’d have to compensate for that elsewhere. The current toolkit isn’t really suited for damage increases in other abilities though.

    A class overhaul would be the best thing to do.
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    @Feanor

    I mention that is the suggestion. Nerf the Base Damage of Frags Instant Cast, keep the Empowered the same damage as it is currently.

    It shouldn't change anything about current meta playstyles apart from adding in a viable morph choice and giving MagSorcs a Class Spammable. (Making the ability less RNG focused as well) (And if you notice: will function almost exactly like NB's Merciless resolve except it needs one fewer stack and revolve around Ability Casts instead of Light Attacks)

    (Dark Magic Passives might need to be tweaked though)
    Edited by Avran_Sylt on August 1, 2018 7:45AM
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    I like it
    templesus wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.

    Can we stop the "you can't have nice things cause i don't have nice things" ... thing?

    It's ok to fix the mag sorc before the stam sorc or vice versa.

    MagSorc is already the top performing magicka PvP class and 2nd best magicka PvE class, why would we buff a class already at the top?

    My point was to refute the claim that MagSorc was the only class without a class based spammable. It is a common misconception that such is the case, and misconceptions lead to false ideaology that certain classes need buffed. By correcting the misconception I can stop people from believing in the false ideaology.

    Amazing what a single semester of Psychology in college teaches you.

    Because it's the only magicka class which lacks a class spammable?

    This is something that can be addressed.
    This is a thing which exists regardless of all other issues.
    This is a thing which could be addressed before or after looking at other build or class issues as it is unrelated to them.
  • Amdar_Godkiller
    Amdar_Godkiller
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.

    Can we stop the "you can't have nice things cause i don't have nice things" ... thing?

    It's ok to fix the mag sorc before the stam sorc or vice versa.

    MagSorc is already the top performing magicka PvP class and 2nd best magicka PvE class, why would we buff a class already at the top?

    My point was to refute the claim that MagSorc was the only class without a class based spammable. It is a common misconception that such is the case, and misconceptions lead to false ideaology that certain classes need buffed. By correcting the misconception I can stop people from believing in the false ideaology.

    Amazing what a single semester of Psychology in college teaches you.

    Because it's the only magicka class which lacks a class spammable?

    This is something that can be addressed.
    This is a thing which exists regardless of all other issues.
    This is a thing which could be addressed before or after looking at other build or class issues as it is unrelated to them.

    Overload is your spammable or just use Destro staff's or the new psijic skill. That's plenty of good options. No class needs a spammable.

    Stam DK and Stam Sorc are the only classes without a spammable.
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    I like it
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.

    Can we stop the "you can't have nice things cause i don't have nice things" ... thing?

    It's ok to fix the mag sorc before the stam sorc or vice versa.

    MagSorc is already the top performing magicka PvP class and 2nd best magicka PvE class, why would we buff a class already at the top?

    My point was to refute the claim that MagSorc was the only class without a class based spammable. It is a common misconception that such is the case, and misconceptions lead to false ideaology that certain classes need buffed. By correcting the misconception I can stop people from believing in the false ideaology.

    Amazing what a single semester of Psychology in college teaches you.

    Because it's the only magicka class which lacks a class spammable?

    This is something that can be addressed.
    This is a thing which exists regardless of all other issues.
    This is a thing which could be addressed before or after looking at other build or class issues as it is unrelated to them.

    Overload is your spammable or just use Destro staff's or the new psijic skill. That's plenty of good options. No class needs a spammable.

    Stam DK and Stam Sorc are the only classes without a spammable.

    overload is an ult, not a spammable.

    as for stam dk and stam sorc, just use weapon skills or the new psijic skill. That's plenty of good options. No class needs a spammable.
  • Avran_Sylt
    Avran_Sylt
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    @Tannus15 @Amdar_Godkiller

    Ya know this suggestion is specifically to add a spammable to Mag Sorc while bringing back old functionality with reduced damage, right?

    StamDK and Stam Sorc would be next on my chopping block if I had the choice.

    StamSorc Spammable:
    I'm tryin' to think of a Sorc Stam Spammable. One method was to have Bound Armaments function as one.

    Still keepin' all the passive +5% Max Stam and +11% Light Attack passives for slotting it, but the Active being the player swinging a Bound Sword at the enemy dealing Physical Damage. (Summoning a sword in the midst of the animation of swinging, all spell-slinger like)

    (This would mean that the Base Damage of this Spammable would need to be a tad lower than other Spammables to offset the Max Stam and Light Attack Damage Bonuses. I need to get some Good StamSorc parses using the current Meta Setups to give a good estimate on the actual Base Damage though).

    My End-Game suggestion would be this:

    -Place Bound Armor in the first skill to unlock in the Daedric Summoning Skilline.
    -Remove the Active Effect from Bound Armor, And replace it with passive Minor Resolve/Ward
    -Place the old Active Effect of Bound Armor onto Bound Aegis
    -Turn Bound Armaments Active into the Sorc Stam Instant Spammable.

    It shouldn't be a total upgrade apart from the passives it provides, allowing players to actually keep it slotted as a passive effect and slotting other Spammables if they so desire for different Damage Application routes.
  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    nemvar wrote: »
    Frags is a mere husk of its former self. Revert it or take it out of its misery.

    This.

    Rather than meddling with Cage and back tracking - could have just left it as it was.

    I'm up for a Frag empower via Bound Aegis tho, rather (or in addition to) the block cost reduction no one's using in PVP
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus - VR16 (810CP) Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-02-18 - 16-02-18 & Sheogorath 02-05-19 - 07-05-19
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  • Amdar_Godkiller
    Amdar_Godkiller
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    Tannus15 wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Tannus15 wrote: »
    templesus wrote: »
    Sure do this.

    As soon as StamSorc and StamDk also get spammables.

    People kill me thinking MagSorc is the only one without a class spammable. You. Are. So. Wrong.

    Can we stop the "you can't have nice things cause i don't have nice things" ... thing?

    It's ok to fix the mag sorc before the stam sorc or vice versa.

    MagSorc is already the top performing magicka PvP class and 2nd best magicka PvE class, why would we buff a class already at the top?

    My point was to refute the claim that MagSorc was the only class without a class based spammable. It is a common misconception that such is the case, and misconceptions lead to false ideaology that certain classes need buffed. By correcting the misconception I can stop people from believing in the false ideaology.

    Amazing what a single semester of Psychology in college teaches you.

    Because it's the only magicka class which lacks a class spammable?

    This is something that can be addressed.
    This is a thing which exists regardless of all other issues.
    This is a thing which could be addressed before or after looking at other build or class issues as it is unrelated to them.

    Overload is your spammable or just use Destro staff's or the new psijic skill. That's plenty of good options. No class needs a spammable.

    Stam DK and Stam Sorc are the only classes without a spammable.

    overload is an ult, not a spammable.

    as for stam dk and stam sorc, just use weapon skills or the new psijic skill. That's plenty of good options. No class needs a spammable.

    I agree. No class needs a spammable.
  • gepe87
    gepe87
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    Other
    Blast changed to a instant with low damage and minor vitality or other minor buff (similar to swallow soul).

    Fragments stay the same, just add stun when proc hits and reduce rune cage stun duration.

    Gepe, AD MagSorc | Gepe Telvayn, Pact MagSorc
    Solo PvPer | Warlord | The Flawless Conqueror | Voice of Reason and other PVE titles
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