I don't really understand the idea that every class should be equal DPS, equal Tankiness and equal Healing, they shouldn't be the same numberwise, there should be plus sides and down sides that show real class identity.

The game started out as DK = Tank, Templar = Healer, Nightblade = Burst DPS and Sorcerer = Sustained DPS. I don't play a nightblade, but I'm fine with them being "TOP" dps as long as the other classes bring something to the table or are just a little behind. Making every class perform the same seems like a bad idea.

Obviously you can dig deeper than my simple explanation of the classes and maybe it's not accurate. To be fair I love that classes can be any role, but why should a templar have the same DPS as a nightblade doesn't make sense to me. Guess the game has changed a lot. I'm talking within 2-3k dps end game. I guess it's much more substantial then that though. I'll stick with Stamina Sorcerer's play style no matter if it's best or worst dps. I just want more options or more group support, instead of feeling like a selfish, 1 trick pony.

Nightblades both Stam and magicka are highest damage dealers in game by large margin right now. I’m shelfing my main (non pet mag sorc) he hits 43k self buffed rest of Summerset for my magblade.

Hard to justify playing the terrible sustain game of magsorc for less DPS when you can just go magblade deal more damage, have way better sustain, and self/group heals while damaging.

Gprime31 wrote: »

FearAndPatching wrote: »

Nightblades both Stam and magicka are highest damage dealers in game by large margin right now. I’m shelfing my main (non pet mag sorc) he hits 43k self buffed rest of Summerset for my magblade.

Hard to justify playing the terrible sustain game of magsorc for less DPS when you can just go magblade deal more damage, have way better sustain, and self/group heals while damaging.

Mag sorc does 49-51k with great sustain, maybe you should do some research

If you arent aware that magnb outperform sorcs by around 4-5k then you don't really play endgame...

Yeah Mag Sorcs are the second best Mag DPS, but people don’t seem to get how big the DPS gap really is between Mag NB and Mag Sorc.

Chibs wrote: »

Yeah Mag Sorcs are the second best Mag DPS, but people don’t seem to get how big the DPS gap really is between Mag NB and Mag Sorc.

I’ve been playing since launch and have never saw the gap between top tier DPS classes be larger. Compare on a 6 mil health dummy and the differences become even more obvious in nightblades favor.

Gprime31 wrote: »

FearAndPatching wrote: »

Nightblades both Stam and magicka are highest damage dealers in game by large margin right now. I’m shelfing my main (non pet mag sorc) he hits 43k self buffed rest of Summerset for my magblade.

Hard to justify playing the terrible sustain game of magsorc for less DPS when you can just go magblade deal more damage, have way better sustain, and self/group heals while damaging.

Mag sorc does 49-51k with great sustain, maybe you should do some research

Sustainable 49-51k on non-pet sorc? You mind sharing some proof?

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

FearAndPatching wrote: »

Nightblades both Stam and magicka are highest damage dealers in game by large margin right now. I’m shelfing my main (non pet mag sorc) he hits 43k self buffed rest of Summerset for my magblade.

Hard to justify playing the terrible sustain game of magsorc for less DPS when you can just go magblade deal more damage, have way better sustain, and self/group heals while damaging.

Mag sorc does 49-51k with great sustain, maybe you should do some research

Stop right there. NBs do more than that.

I don't know guys. The numbers in this thread don't really look right to me. Non-pet sorc with sustainable 51k? mNBs doing 4-5k more than that? Is this still about raid setup, no cheese, self-buffed DPS on 6mil dummy?

@Gprime31 still waiting for a link to the 51k magsorc video. Can't wait to do that much DPS on my sorc.

Vahrokh wrote: »

nnargun wrote: »

@Gprime31 still waiting for a link to the 51k magsorc video. Can't wait to do that much DPS on my sorc.

I want to see 51k magsorc on 6 (six) M dummy.

Sustainable he said. I thought that implied 6mil.

For the start I wouldn't mind seeing a 51k video on 3mil though.

Sparr0w wrote: »

Off heals vs Shield/Pets

Higher DPS vs Easier rotation

Countless times I've witnessed a pet take agro long enough for the tank be revived. Countless times I've witnessed a sorc live when all others died to a mechanic.

Granted TOP mNB's will pull 3-4k more DPS than TOP mSorc's but each have their own advantages to bringing along.

NB has a shield. Not quite as big but with magica return instead. Imo the heals (self AND group) outweigh the bigger shields. Movement speed is another plus for NB. Sustain is sooo much better on NB. The only points I can see for magsorc are bigger shields and easier rotation, whereby the non-pet rotation is not that much easier than the NB rotation.
Petsorc is different. I'd rate it higher than NB for solo play and for beginners but who takes their zoo to serious trials?

Look, a sorc who is designed to be useful in trials, will run abilities that bring their dps down but help the team since MagBlades are designed to hit harder single target.

I run non pet, with Atro ulti to give synergy damage buff, frags to give sorc passive, and crushing shock to be the hero. I am sitting at 41k. If a sorc plays completely selfish for dps, they can do around 46-51k without a doubt on a 3 mil with Lover mundus, probably closer to 43-46k on 6 mil.

A sorc should not ever be able to do as much single target dps as a nightblade… sorcs are designed to melt mobs and be great around single target, a nightblade is designed to be pure single target with some mob melting capabilities.

In my opinion sorc is more fun to play, a magblades rotation is unforgiving. You mess it up a little bit and you lose 2k dps almost immediately lol. I made my magblade into a bomber for fun after losing myself in trying to get 48k dps, highest I got was 47k and it wasn't fun for me anymore.

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Look, a sorc who is designed to be useful in trials, will run abilities that bring their dps down but help the team since MagBlades are designed to hit harder single target.

I run non pet, with Atro ulti to give synergy damage buff, frags to give sorc passive, and crushing shock to be the hero. I am sitting at 41k. If a sorc plays completely selfish for dps, they can do around 46-51k without a doubt on a 3 mil with Lover mundus, probably closer to 43-46k on 6 mil.

A sorc should not ever be able to do as much single target dps as a nightblade… sorcs are designed to melt mobs and be great around single target, a nightblade is designed to be pure single target with some mob melting capabilities.

In my opinion sorc is more fun to play, a magblades rotation is unforgiving. You mess it up a little bit and you lose 2k dps almost immediately lol. I made my magblade into a bomber for fun after losing myself in trying to get 48k dps, highest I got was 47k and it wasn't fun for me anymore.

Look, if sorc is designed to be useful in trials, how come raids are full of magblades?

You try to use sorcs aoe-dps as justification why magblades should pull higher/highest single-target-dps, but you just forget to mention that its pet-sorc with volatile familiar who got that aoe-deeps, non-pet sorcs not so much. But, pets just doesn`t work that well in trials.. Pet-sorcs awesome aoe-dps in trashpulls is small comfort if that spec is useless in boss-fights. Your non-pet sorc won`t pull much or at all more aoe-deeps than magblade, and while atronach is good for st-dps you use or should use destro-ulti against mobs and magblades use that as well.

Take a look at aoe-skills everybody use: both sorc and magblade use wall of elements, then, sorcs got liquid lightning and magblade got path, twisting path if you go for highest deeps. While liquid lightning deal awesome dmg, its radius is very tiny and mobs would have to be extremely nicely packed to small area for it to deal good aoe-dps, while magblades twisting path does good dmg in much larger area. I do not see how aoe-dps could justify difference in st-dps when compared to nbs.

Then you say magblade rotatoin is unforgiving, true to some extent. But these days it`s far easier and forgiving than what it used to be, say, half year ago. Mistakes drop everyones dps while improving your own gameplay increases it, with nb though, playing more skillfully increases your dps more than it would do with other classes. Can you see a problem with that? Also, don`t forget that part of sorcs dps is behind rng, talking about frag procs ofc. Sorc can play well and execute his rotations perfectly, but if one lacks luck with frag-procs dps is lower than it could be. So, lower dps without you screwing up anything, sounds unfair, doesn`t it?

Finally, I do understand that perfect balance does not exist. There will always be one class/spec that does more or less better than others, that`s not the problem. I don`t mind nightblades pulling highest dps, but what I do mind is the margin to other classes. Right now problem isn`t magblades pulling highest dps, problem is how much ahead of others they are. And that covers not only dps but also sustain, survivability, mobility and utility. All other classes are lacking something in pve, but nightblades are lacking weaknesses.

Iki wrote: »

BeefyMrTips wrote: »

Look, a sorc who is designed to be useful in trials, will run abilities that bring their dps down but help the team since MagBlades are designed to hit harder single target.

I run non pet, with Atro ulti to give synergy damage buff, frags to give sorc passive, and crushing shock to be the hero. I am sitting at 41k. If a sorc plays completely selfish for dps, they can do around 46-51k without a doubt on a 3 mil with Lover mundus, probably closer to 43-46k on 6 mil.

A sorc should not ever be able to do as much single target dps as a nightblade… sorcs are designed to melt mobs and be great around single target, a nightblade is designed to be pure single target with some mob melting capabilities.

In my opinion sorc is more fun to play, a magblades rotation is unforgiving. You mess it up a little bit and you lose 2k dps almost immediately lol. I made my magblade into a bomber for fun after losing myself in trying to get 48k dps, highest I got was 47k and it wasn't fun for me anymore.

Look, if sorc is designed to be useful in trials, how come raids are full of magblades?

You try to use sorcs aoe-dps as justification why magblades should pull higher/highest single-target-dps, but you just forget to mention that its pet-sorc with volatile familiar who got that aoe-deeps, non-pet sorcs not so much. But, pets just doesn`t work that well in trials.. Pet-sorcs awesome aoe-dps in trashpulls is small comfort if that spec is useless in boss-fights. Your non-pet sorc won`t pull much or at all more aoe-deeps than magblade, and while atronach is good for st-dps you use or should use destro-ulti against mobs and magblades use that as well.

Take a look at aoe-skills everybody use: both sorc and magblade use wall of elements, then, sorcs got liquid lightning and magblade got path, twisting path if you go for highest deeps. While liquid lightning deal awesome dmg, its radius is very tiny and mobs would have to be extremely nicely packed to small area for it to deal good aoe-dps, while magblades twisting path does good dmg in much larger area. I do not see how aoe-dps could justify difference in st-dps when compared to nbs.

Then you say magblade rotatoin is unforgiving, true to some extent. But these days it`s far easier and forgiving than what it used to be, say, half year ago. Mistakes drop everyones dps while improving your own gameplay increases it, with nb though, playing more skillfully increases your dps more than it would do with other classes. Can you see a problem with that? Also, don`t forget that part of sorcs dps is behind rng, talking about frag procs ofc. Sorc can play well and execute his rotations perfectly, but if one lacks luck with frag-procs dps is lower than it could be. So, lower dps without you screwing up anything, sounds unfair, doesn`t it?

Finally, I do understand that perfect balance does not exist. There will always be one class/spec that does more or less better than others, that`s not the problem. I don`t mind nightblades pulling highest dps, but what I do mind is the margin to other classes. Right now problem isn`t magblades pulling highest dps, problem is how much ahead of others they are. And that covers not only dps but also sustain, survivability, mobility and utility. All other classes are lacking something in pve, but nightblades are lacking weaknesses.

Raids are full of mag blades because they pull higher dps. Example 3 mag blades and 1 sorc vs 4 sorcs in trial. Mag blade going to hit boss usually 5-6k more dps for each magblade vs sorc. Then take 3 mag blades that around 15k dps more than if they were full of sorcs. In one minute they do 900k more dps. Boss fights can take up to 15-20 min in some vet trials where DPS is crucial. In 20 min that is a potential 18,000,000 more dps than 4 sorcs as an example.

As far as the gap between nightblades and other classes when it comes to dps, a sorc has far superior aoe, its not even close, twisting path is garbage compared to liquid and they only have a 6 second shield which kind of makes them like glass cannons where their survival weighs heavily on tanks and healers.

Some classes are way better than others in pvp for different reasons and sorc has a clear advantage in maelstrom arena. Nightblades have a lot of weaknesses, but in end game trial content they shine, and there is nothing wrong with that. I play a sorc and love sorc more than nightblades but you cant go through this game expecting things to always be to your advantage.

Finally, those that play magblade mostly play it now specifically for end game trial content, they took the time developing a new character in order to participate.

It sounds to me like you are stuck always trying to follow the BiS mold and are frustrated that this time, the mold doesn't agree with your wants. Id advise you of the following: The BiS is always changing and there are many ways to achieve high DPS that I believe haven't been discovered yet with combinations not tried before. I spend a lot of time in development of theorized possibilities to obtain higher dps and know this to be true. Nothing is BiS until someone discovers it. Right now, someone discovered it with nightblades, maybe tomorrow someone will discover it with sorcs, so on and so forth.

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

FearAndPatching wrote: »

Nightblades both Stam and magicka are highest damage dealers in game by large margin right now. I’m shelfing my main (non pet mag sorc) he hits 43k self buffed rest of Summerset for my magblade.

Hard to justify playing the terrible sustain game of magsorc for less DPS when you can just go magblade deal more damage, have way better sustain, and self/group heals while damaging.

Mag sorc does 49-51k with great sustain, maybe you should do some research

lol . No way you can cross 45K in magic sorc without someone .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVb74ggycq8

No?

terrasight wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

FearAndPatching wrote: »

Nightblades both Stam and magicka are highest damage dealers in game by large margin right now. I’m shelfing my main (non pet mag sorc) he hits 43k self buffed rest of Summerset for my magblade.

Hard to justify playing the terrible sustain game of magsorc for less DPS when you can just go magblade deal more damage, have way better sustain, and self/group heals while damaging.

Mag sorc does 49-51k with great sustain, maybe you should do some research

lol . No way you can cross 45K in magic sorc without someone .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVb74ggycq8

No?

Noone gives a care about 3 mill cheesed parses.