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Healer Expectations in Dungeons

  • Illurian
    Illurian
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    There is a 4 month gap from the original poster's thread and the soul shard used to resurrect it.

    This is true. However, the information within is still relevant as nothing has changed in this regard.
    Kiss the chaos.
  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Asardes wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I use werewolf on my front bar for stamina regen, and barrier on my backbar for magicka regen. I only ult with barrier however, I never actually use werewolf. And like I said, warhorn is something you want to have up in rotation pretty much constantly, I'd just make someone else use it because my build supports barrier specifically. Even in the case where we only have one warhorn then, it's basically just giving up a little offense for a bit of defense. It still comes in quite useful in any "oh s***" moment in any activity.

    Why would you need high stamina recovery on a healer? And 10% isn't much if you work with base recovery. It's something like ~60 extra recovery which isn't worth anything really, and you use that stamina only for blocking, and when blocking recovery is canceled anyway. That's why I always put quite a few points in Shadow Ward, Thumbling and Warlord on my magicka characters too, since they have to block, roll dodge and break free on a ~10K stamina pool. On the other hand a high base recovery magicka build, for example using set bonuses that buff that stat, jewelry glyphs and Atronach mundus, the % recovery becomes much stronger.

    I'm a tank, not a healer.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    Marginis wrote: »
    Asardes wrote: »
    Marginis wrote: »
    I use werewolf on my front bar for stamina regen, and barrier on my backbar for magicka regen. I only ult with barrier however, I never actually use werewolf. And like I said, warhorn is something you want to have up in rotation pretty much constantly, I'd just make someone else use it because my build supports barrier specifically. Even in the case where we only have one warhorn then, it's basically just giving up a little offense for a bit of defense. It still comes in quite useful in any "oh s***" moment in any activity.

    Why would you need high stamina recovery on a healer? And 10% isn't much if you work with base recovery. It's something like ~60 extra recovery which isn't worth anything really, and you use that stamina only for blocking, and when blocking recovery is canceled anyway. That's why I always put quite a few points in Shadow Ward, Thumbling and Warlord on my magicka characters too, since they have to block, roll dodge and break free on a ~10K stamina pool. On the other hand a high base recovery magicka build, for example using set bonuses that buff that stat, jewelry glyphs and Atronach mundus, the % recovery becomes much stronger.

    I'm a tank, not a healer.

    And that's even more to the point, since blocking stops recovery, so you'll benefit very little from that passive. Heavy attacks recover a lot if you weave them properly, with the HA passives and 50+ CP in Tenacity. All my tanks have < 1K recovery and I can sustain just fine choosing the attack windows wisely.
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  • RavenSworn
    RavenSworn
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    essi2 wrote: »
    TL,DR:

    Everyone has different expectations and there is no right way aslong as you keep everyone alive and support in some way.



    Best thing to do as Healer(or Tank for that matter) is to find a good flexible group of friends or a guild that hasn't been brainwashed by the rest of their peers into thinking there is a correct answer to everything, then find out what abilities and gear work best with your playstyle and the needs of your group.

    What class you are also matters alot to how you play as a healer.

    This.

    It all depends on the group setup, regardless of which content they are in.
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  • Marginis
    Marginis
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    Asardes wrote: »
    And that's even more to the point, since blocking stops recovery, so you'll benefit very little from that passive. Heavy attacks recover a lot if you weave them properly, with the HA passives and 50+ CP in Tenacity. All my tanks have < 1K recovery and I can sustain just fine choosing the attack windows wisely.

    Blocking with a frost staff uses magicka.
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Marginis wrote: »
    Asardes wrote: »
    And that's even more to the point, since blocking stops recovery, so you'll benefit very little from that passive. Heavy attacks recover a lot if you weave them properly, with the HA passives and 50+ CP in Tenacity. All my tanks have < 1K recovery and I can sustain just fine choosing the attack windows wisely.

    Blocking with a frost staff uses magicka.

    Random interjection... but desert rose my make a good frost tank set.
    Famous Healer, Loving Guild Master, Support Theory Crater
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  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)

    Warhorn is trash if your dps dont know a rotation beyond light attack arrow spamming and dropping blood alter on CD.

    if I see blood altar drop I know they have no idea what they're doing...
  • QuebraRegra
    QuebraRegra
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    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    better be 100% for purple arms! :)
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    Has healing springs and decent regen? Good to heal.
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  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)

    Warhorn is trash if your dps dont know a rotation beyond light attack arrow spamming and dropping blood alter on CD.

    if I see blood altar drop I know they have no idea what they're doing...

    Exactly my point. Warhorn has its uses. Providing a boost to pathetic dps party members is not one of them.
    Edited by exeeter702 on February 3, 2018 8:14PM
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)

    Warhorn is trash if your dps dont know a rotation beyond light attack arrow spamming and dropping blood alter on CD.

    if I see blood altar drop I know they have no idea what they're doing...

    Exactly my point. Warhorn has its uses. Providing a boost to pathetic dps party members is not one of them.
    Yeah I jokingly say: y'all need to earn Warhorn. If you don't? You get barrier.
    You know you don't have to be here right?
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)

    Warhorn is trash if your dps dont know a rotation beyond light attack arrow spamming and dropping blood alter on CD.

    if I see blood altar drop I know they have no idea what they're doing...

    Many self sustaining tanks drop blood altar as a free self heal over time (I do not). It's becoming quite common actually. So be sure to note who dropped it, it may not have even been the healer.
    You know you don't have to be here right?
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Mureel wrote: »
    exeeter702 wrote: »
    IMHO, you aint a proper healer if you don't horn for yer group. (best to be set up for fast ultimate regen.. ie. SOUL HARVEST, etc.)

    I'm not convinced that Warhorn helps much in most dungeon PUG groups.
    DoctorESO wrote: »
    Of course, the most important thing you can do is keep your group's health bars above Zero..

    I'd go so far as to say healers need to keep the group's health bars well above zero. When DPS health drops too low, they feel the need to interrupt their rotation and shield up.

    If you're running SPC you try to keep health at 100% anyway. More precisely, you try to return it there quickly.

    R U kidding me? some of these PUGs have NO health at all, and WARHORN is the ONLY thing that keeps them alive in a boss fight.,, that and gives their pitiful DPS a boost. ;)

    Warhorn is trash if your dps dont know a rotation beyond light attack arrow spamming and dropping blood alter on CD.

    if I see blood altar drop I know they have no idea what they're doing...

    Many self sustaining tanks drop blood altar as a free self heal over time (I do not). It's becoming quite common actually. So be sure to note who dropped it, it may not have even been the healer.

    pretty sure this thread(last post before your was feb 2018) is before they buffed blood atlar, it only had a 8 meter range and that made it much worse. it has a 28 meter range now and doesnt pull aggo.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 6, 2018 3:47PM
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Blood atlar been through so many changes now. I think not to long ago saw a thread of Healer's and tanks fighting over who gets to use it.
    Famous Healer, Loving Guild Master, Support Theory Crater
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  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
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    I don't expect Combat Prayer, Shards/Orbs, E-Drain, Warhorn
    I don't expect Major Courage or any support sets
    I don't expect ~20k DPS
    I don't expect them to do all the rezzing in the group in the case of a player death.

    I expect my healer to heal and keep the team alive to the best of their ability. If you spam BoL and are OOM or if you become so focused on DPS that you allow teammates to die to unavoidable things, you have FAILED as far as I'm concerned.
    Argonian forever
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    I used Blood altar :'( although I rarely have time to cast it twice, too much going on.... and not healing springs my class heal is so much better than healing springs... I use mutagen and combat prayer.

    So when i run vet dungeons with cp 750s everything dies before we need to use two warhorns (my tanks and mine) and I don't really have to heal very often... just buff... all the dps and the tanks all have self heals and shields and roll dodge and block mechanics.

    With lower cp players my tank often takes a punch and I have to press my big heal and sometimes I actually see mechanics. The tank might have to slot a defensive ultimate so my warhorn is more useful there (even with less dps).

    Its really hard to heal for PUGs not just because of occasional dumb dumbs but because you don't know what your group is going to need in terms of heals and buffs and expectations.
    Edited by Narvuntien on July 7, 2018 10:05AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    @Narvuntien what class heal do you think is better then healing springs?
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    @Narvuntien what class heal do you think is better then healing springs?

    Twilight matriarch.....but don't worry I am probably wrong.

    I literally don't have enough space on my bar to use combat prayer, mutagen, healing springs, twilight matriarch, Empowered Ward and Bound Aegis/Inner light... or even shield ally (which I want to use to maximise bastion cp)

    I just realised combat prayer and aegis has the same buff when I was looking it up (although Aegis gives more mag than inner light). Ward and Aegis/light need to be on the same bar.

    I am literally switching between all the resto staff skills...trying to work out which one I need more, what I don't need is another heal because Twilight matriarch heal is such a large heal that is sets everyone to full.

    Purge, Altar, orbs and exchange are on my overload bar... and I am all lightning on my back bar.

    Note: this is a vet dungeon healer not for trials.... and I don't have a masters resto.
    Edited by Narvuntien on July 7, 2018 10:59AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    @Narvuntien twilight is used for different reasons then springs, what you are saying is like saying wall of elements is worse then force pulse, they are different and one is not "better" then the other and should not be compared. @Tasear you have a sorc healer to mentor here
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 7, 2018 11:29AM
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    @Narvuntien what class heal do you think is better then healing springs?

    Twilight matriarch.....but don't worry I am probably wrong.

    I literally don't have enough space on my bar to use combat prayer, mutagen, healing springs, twilight matriarch, Empowered Ward and Bound Aegis/Inner light... or even shield ally (which I want to use to maximise bastion cp)

    I just realised combat prayer and aegis has the same buff when I was looking it up (although Aegis gives more mag than inner light). Ward and Aegis/light need to be on the same bar.

    I am literally switching between all the resto staff skills...trying to work out which one I need more, what I don't need is another heal because Twilight matriarch heal is such a large heal that is sets everyone to full.

    Purge, Altar, orbs and exchange are on my overload bar... and I am all lightning on my back bar.

    Note: this is a vet dungeon healer not for trials.... and I don't have a masters resto.

    Twlight is a burst heal while healing springs is a heal over time. You want to have heals over time down and burst if they drop to low. Of course there's different ways to heal, but you will find this easiest.

    Also just take note some skills you can live without most fights. For healing you have be adaptivable. Which is fun because Sorcerers can have almost everything. You can run, stun, negate even chain now.
    Find what you like for most situations then adapt from there.

    Also here's a guide

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healers-collection-dragon-bones-updated-new-build-added#latest
    Famous Healer, Loving Guild Master, Support Theory Crater
    Former Class Representative, & Former Community Ambassador
    Grand Prize Winner to Deardic Dress up Contest
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    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/how-to-play-sorcerer-healer/

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    Trial History: Magic Society Core Healer, Rolling Cliff Hangers Core Healer, Kongpanions Core Healer, Moonlight Core Healer
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Tasear wrote: »

    Twlight is a burst heal while healing springs is a heal over time. You want to have heals over time down and burst if they drop to low. Of course there's different ways to heal, but you will find this easiest.

    Also just take note some skills you can live without most fights. For healing you have be adaptivable. Which is fun because Sorcerers can have almost everything. You can run, stun, negate even chain now.
    Find what you like for most situations then adapt from there.

    Also here's a guide

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healers-collection-dragon-bones-updated-new-build-added#latest

    I have it booked marked I went to see what you had. I did use it as a starting point but I am sort of fumbling about and seeing what I like and what feels best.

    Not using Aegis or Inner light on that front bar?
    Err I guess I have the sort of makeshift gear set up of Necropotence (+ SPC) which makes the % magicka boost way stronger for me. (I can just buy necropotence and don't have to farm a trials like all the healer gear)

    I didn't even realise it was a heal over time....I think I got combat payer and springs heals confused.

    I swear I have too many heals though, either things don't do enough damage to overwhelm players self heals or its burst damage that matriarch solves (or 1 shots and kills one or more of us)

    As I said I ran vet pledges and I barely needed to heal because everything just died so fast. I ran a vet pledge with a PUG cp 45 tank today it was a bit harder than usual, they took a lot more damage than a higher cp tank would but press matriarch back to full hp.
    Edited by Narvuntien on July 7, 2018 12:25PM
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Narvuntien wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »

    Twlight is a burst heal while healing springs is a heal over time. You want to have heals over time down and burst if they drop to low. Of course there's different ways to heal, but you will find this easiest.

    Also just take note some skills you can live without most fights. For healing you have be adaptivable. Which is fun because Sorcerers can have almost everything. You can run, stun, negate even chain now.
    Find what you like for most situations then adapt from there.

    Also here's a guide

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healers-collection-dragon-bones-updated-new-build-added#latest

    I have it booked marked I went to see what you had. I did use it as a starting point but I am sort of fumbling about and seeing what I like and what feels best.

    Not using Aegis or Inner light on that front bar?
    Err I guess I have the sort of makeshift gear set up of Necropotence (+ SPC) which makes the % magicka boost way stronger for me. (I can just buy necropotence and don't have to farm a trials like all the healer gear)

    I didn't even realise it was a heal over time....I think I got combat payer and springs heals confused.

    I swear I have too many heals though, either things don't do enough damage to overwhelm players self heals or its burst damage that matriarch solves (or 1 shots and kills one or more of us)

    As I said I ran vet pledges and I barely needed to heal because everything just died so fast. I ran a vet pledge with a PUG cp 45 tank today it was a bit harder than usual, they took a lot more damage than a higher cp tank would but press matriarch back to full hp.

    It's a noted concern about incoming damage for self heals and off healer Sorcs are taking care of rest usually. Still there are some places that really call for healer.

    Haven't used bound ageis yet simply because haven't had need. I made different trade offs for utitly. But yeah Sorcs are so much fun. There's so many ways you could support allies.
    Famous Healer, Loving Guild Master, Support Theory Crater
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