Maintenance for the week of May 25:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 25
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 25
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
Is Zaans being Allowed in Trials guilds now?!
BeefyMrTips
✭✭✭✭
Have noticed some people using Zaans in trials parses, and have been getting some different reactions. I always understood it to be impractical for trials and considered it cheesing. Whats the word?! Cause if I can start slotting it I get to jump up significantly from my 40k Mag Sorc.
Mr. was my Father's name, just the tips is fine.
0
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have never heard of a trial guild banning a set or telling players what they needed to wear. The stronger the trial guild is the more likely players are already doing and wearing what does well legitimately. Zaans would be legitimate.7 -
Tetrafy✭✭✭✭Perhaps if guilds spent more.time creating a good atmosphere vs enforcing rules to feel special perhaps even the competitive community across many games would consider joining one. I can understand perhaps disallowing lower dps but calling people out on stuff being used in game, yikes.9 -
XGCAlbatr0ss✭✭✭I run zaans in my trials guild depending on the fight. Zaans is a lot more viable than many think on a ranged character, especially a mNB. Its not great for every fight but there are some where it shines very well.1
-
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In close stationary fights, Craglorn, HOF, and MAW, you are stacked on the boss for most of the fights and Zaan deals a ton of damage. As a mag character, the only fight it isn't good in is the Mage in AA. And for Stam characters, it outputs good single target DPS in every fight. I run it on my mag sorc and at times on my stamblade.
Now for Cloudrest and AS, Zaan isn't going to perform that well because the bosses move or the mechanics force you to move.4 -
mesmerizedish✭✭✭✭✭If it gets the job done,who cares?
My understanding of the question is that it relates specifically to whether guilds consider numbers on target dummies achieved with Zaan's "valid," because Zaan's inflates dummy numbers to an even greater degree than the nature of the dummy relative to actual trial scenarios. If you're doing 40k in an actual trial, with a few exceptions, I don't think your raid lead is going to care how you do it. But doing 40k on a dummy is less indicative of performance, and Zaan's makes it an even worse indicator.3 -
BeefyMrTips✭✭✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »Why don't you ask your trial guild what their policy on it is?
That's the thing, I have and am getting mixed reaction from them and other guilds I have people in, wondering if there is a change in the wind
Also, I am not hating on Zaans, I just want to know if I can start hitting that big dps with it on lolMr. was my Father's name, just the tips is fine.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BeefyMrTips wrote: »Have noticed some people using Zaans in trials parses, and have been getting some different reactions. I always understood it to be impractical for trials and considered it cheesing. Whats the word?! Cause if I can start slotting it I get to jump up significantly from my 40k Mag Sorc.
What does cheese have to do with anything? Impractical maybe, but I have never heard of any decent guild banning a set in PVE content because they thought it was cheese. Zaan is the best magic DPS monster sit IF you are able to stay in melee range. If you can't, it's not. Also, curious what you are running now, because i am not sure that you know what the word Significant means. Haha2 -
BeefyMrTips✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BeefyMrTips wrote: »Have noticed some people using Zaans in trials parses, and have been getting some different reactions. I always understood it to be impractical for trials and considered it cheesing. Whats the word?! Cause if I can start slotting it I get to jump up significantly from my 40k Mag Sorc.
What does cheese have to do with anything? Impractical maybe, but I have never heard of any decent guild banning a set in PVE content because they thought it was cheese. Zaan is the best magic DPS monster sit IF you are able to stay in melee range. If you can't, it's not. Also, curious what you are running now, because i am not sure that you know what the word Significant means. Haha
Ive only stated what Ive heard about Zaans, I am currently hitting 40k on my mag sorc and expect a significant increase using a monster set that deals quite a bit more damage than ilambris from my own dps testing. Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just saying I have ran with some sweaty people who wouldn't take the parseMr. was my Father's name, just the tips is fine.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »If it gets the job done,who cares?
My understanding of the question is that it relates specifically to whether guilds consider numbers on target dummies achieved with Zaan's "valid," because Zaan's inflates dummy numbers to an even greater degree than the nature of the dummy relative to actual trial scenarios. If you're doing 40k in an actual trial, with a few exceptions, I don't think your raid lead is going to care how you do it. But doing 40k on a dummy is less indicative of performance, and Zaan's makes it an even worse indicator.
If they are doing 40k on dummy and the same or less in an actual trial then it is an issue. If they are pulling g55-60k in the trial then why would there be an issue?
That is what the trial leads would be interested in.
Of course this set will not perform well when worn by ranged dps well and some fights would cause it's performance to drop due to mechanics requirement movement. The newer trials do not favor stack and burn. But dps probably has enough sense to realize that and not wear it.0 -
mesmerizedish✭✭✭✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »If it gets the job done,who cares?
My understanding of the question is that it relates specifically to whether guilds consider numbers on target dummies achieved with Zaan's "valid," because Zaan's inflates dummy numbers to an even greater degree than the nature of the dummy relative to actual trial scenarios. If you're doing 40k in an actual trial, with a few exceptions, I don't think your raid lead is going to care how you do it. But doing 40k on a dummy is less indicative of performance, and Zaan's makes it an even worse indicator.
If they are doing 40k on dummy and the same or less in an actual trial then it is an issue. If they are pulling g55-60k in the trial then why would there be an issue?
That is what the trial leads would be interested in.
Of course this set will not perform well when worn by ranged dps well and some fights would cause it's performance to drop due to mechanics requirement movement. The newer trials do not favor stack and burn. But dps probably has enough sense to realize that and not wear it.
You're vastly overestimating many DPS players' ability to reason.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »mesmerizedish wrote: »If it gets the job done,who cares?
My understanding of the question is that it relates specifically to whether guilds consider numbers on target dummies achieved with Zaan's "valid," because Zaan's inflates dummy numbers to an even greater degree than the nature of the dummy relative to actual trial scenarios. If you're doing 40k in an actual trial, with a few exceptions, I don't think your raid lead is going to care how you do it. But doing 40k on a dummy is less indicative of performance, and Zaan's makes it an even worse indicator.
If they are doing 40k on dummy and the same or less in an actual trial then it is an issue. If they are pulling g55-60k in the trial then why would there be an issue?
That is what the trial leads would be interested in.
Of course this set will not perform well when worn by ranged dps well and some fights would cause it's performance to drop due to mechanics requirement movement. The newer trials do not favor stack and burn. But dps probably has enough sense to realize that and not wear it.
You're vastly overestimating many DPS players' ability to reason.
LOL, if they are able to pull 55-60k in a trial they have already demonstrated they ability to reason. Especially in a trail that does not reside in Craglorn.0 -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wait what? Trials guilds ban sets lol ....
Only dueling guilds ban sets...
Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
Princess Asgari | Sorc
Asgari | NB
-Asgari | Stamplar
Ariana Kishi | DK | True Liberator of Haderus
Banner Down!
No Mercy
Youtube: Asgari1 -
mesmerizedish✭✭✭✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »mesmerizedish wrote: »If it gets the job done,who cares?
My understanding of the question is that it relates specifically to whether guilds consider numbers on target dummies achieved with Zaan's "valid," because Zaan's inflates dummy numbers to an even greater degree than the nature of the dummy relative to actual trial scenarios. If you're doing 40k in an actual trial, with a few exceptions, I don't think your raid lead is going to care how you do it. But doing 40k on a dummy is less indicative of performance, and Zaan's makes it an even worse indicator.
If they are doing 40k on dummy and the same or less in an actual trial then it is an issue. If they are pulling g55-60k in the trial then why would there be an issue?
That is what the trial leads would be interested in.
Of course this set will not perform well when worn by ranged dps well and some fights would cause it's performance to drop due to mechanics requirement movement. The newer trials do not favor stack and burn. But dps probably has enough sense to realize that and not wear it.
You're vastly overestimating many DPS players' ability to reason.
LOL, if they are able to pull 55-60k in a trial they have already demonstrated they ability to reason. Especially in a trail that does not reside in Craglorn.
Nobody but you is talking about people who do 55-60k.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BeefyMrTips wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »BeefyMrTips wrote: »Have noticed some people using Zaans in trials parses, and have been getting some different reactions. I always understood it to be impractical for trials and considered it cheesing. Whats the word?! Cause if I can start slotting it I get to jump up significantly from my 40k Mag Sorc.
What does cheese have to do with anything? Impractical maybe, but I have never heard of any decent guild banning a set in PVE content because they thought it was cheese. Zaan is the best magic DPS monster sit IF you are able to stay in melee range. If you can't, it's not. Also, curious what you are running now, because i am not sure that you know what the word Significant means. Haha
Ive only stated what Ive heard about Zaans, I am currently hitting 40k on my mag sorc and expect a significant increase using a monster set that deals quite a bit more damage than ilambris from my own dps testing. Again, not trying to ruffle any feathers, just saying I have ran with some sweaty people who wouldn't take the parse
I guess that is a different story. People might establish all kinds of rules for dummy testing in terms of raid requirements, because they want parses they can compare to one another. The also want parses that they believe actually reflect what you can do on a sustained basis in a trial. Cheesing a parse is definitely a thing to some degree, but It would be silly to outlaw any set in a raid unless it actively hurt other group members in some way. The difference between Zaan an Ilambris is like 1-2k a most. It should also be noted that Zaan is Single Target and melee, where ilambirs i AOE and ranged. There are a lot of raid scenarios where ilambris is the better option on a mSorc. Zaan (kinda like Siroria) can make you play risky as well. You see that fire beam go off (or that fire ring you are trying to stand in), and then a mechanic happens and you die for your parse. Not saying everyone does that, but these sets do have a bit of a learning curve.0 -
BeefyMrTips✭✭✭✭I guess this answers my question, I appreciate the feedback, I am actually a fan of Zaans. Guess Ill start rocking itMr. was my Father's name, just the tips is fine.0
-
themaddaedra✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a nice single target set, but you can only use it in melee spot. Have nothing to do with being cheese. There are a lot of bosses where you can play melee and Zaan is pretty useful for single target dps in there. But if you aim for aoe damage then Ilambris/Valkyn/Grothdarr(for melee) are better choices.PC|EU0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mesmerizedish wrote: »mesmerizedish wrote: »mesmerizedish wrote: »If it gets the job done,who cares?
My understanding of the question is that it relates specifically to whether guilds consider numbers on target dummies achieved with Zaan's "valid," because Zaan's inflates dummy numbers to an even greater degree than the nature of the dummy relative to actual trial scenarios. If you're doing 40k in an actual trial, with a few exceptions, I don't think your raid lead is going to care how you do it. But doing 40k on a dummy is less indicative of performance, and Zaan's makes it an even worse indicator.
If they are doing 40k on dummy and the same or less in an actual trial then it is an issue. If they are pulling g55-60k in the trial then why would there be an issue?
That is what the trial leads would be interested in.
Of course this set will not perform well when worn by ranged dps well and some fights would cause it's performance to drop due to mechanics requirement movement. The newer trials do not favor stack and burn. But dps probably has enough sense to realize that and not wear it.
You're vastly overestimating many DPS players' ability to reason.
LOL, if they are able to pull 55-60k in a trial they have already demonstrated they ability to reason. Especially in a trail that does not reside in Craglorn.
Nobody but you is talking about people who do 55-60k.
It was the post you replied to so might want to read what you replied to again. Then again I think your reply was that I overestimated players abilities to reason.
Also, it is really irrelevant. Whatever the guild/raid team requires the players should be able to more in trials and that is on topic for this thread.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can use Zaan in nearly every trial fight. The 10m range is actually not bad, and you don’t have to be as close as melee range (typically 5m). For example, if you are careful with positioning in vAA you can hit the Mage with Zaan while still being far enough from melee group to cause chain lightning.
If there is a lot of movement then you might lose a few Zaan ticks here and there, but in my experience it still beats Ilambris for single target. I’m not sure why people are grouping “new trials” as bad for Zaan, since vCR is a great place to use it (everyone should be stacking, and ZMaja stays still long enough for a full Zaan beam).
The only place I don’t really like Zaan is vAS, where I would recommend Slimecraw on Sorc. This is assuming your healer is not going to be able to keep combat prayer on the entire group (likely, especially in HM). Ironically you would probably be accused of even more cheese using Slimecraw on a dummy parse, even though it has practical applications in trials and performs about the same as Zaan on a dummy.1 -
Sparr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭I main stam characters but tend to bring mag characters to trials, so instinctively play melee range (or within 10m) so always use zaans *shrug*
If I got forced to wear a different monster set I'd still play as risky, just pull a lower DPS on boss. That or repeatedly jump off the edge to kill the vitality bonus.@Sparr0w so I get the notification
Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+DD: All Mag + StamPC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
Tank: NB | DK | Warden
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GHDD: All Mag + Stam
Heal: Templar | Sorc
Tank: DK | NB
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS0 -
BigBadVolk✭✭✭✭✭No you're gonna get kicked and reported ZoS for using this monster set!"The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
I'm 120 years old2 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭I main stam characters but tend to bring mag characters to trials, so instinctively play melee range (or within 10m) so always use zaans *shrug*
If I got forced to wear a different monster set I'd still play as risky, just pull a lower DPS on boss. That or repeatedly jump off the edge to kill the vitality bonus.
People talk about melee range as risky...but I disagree. Once you know the fights and know when not to be there, its not any riskier than ranged...you just have to be on top of things more than ranged. Melee is all about increased situational awareness.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I main stam characters but tend to bring mag characters to trials, so instinctively play melee range (or within 10m) so always use zaans *shrug*
If I got forced to wear a different monster set I'd still play as risky, just pull a lower DPS on boss. That or repeatedly jump off the edge to kill the vitality bonus.
People talk about melee range as risky...but I disagree. Once you know the fights and know when not to be there, its not any riskier than ranged...you just have to be on top of things more than ranged. Melee is all about increased situational awareness.
You are literally defining “risky”. Of course it is perfectly doable, but you need to know the fights be on your game because mistakes often equal deaths in melee.0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭BeefyMrTips wrote: »Have noticed some people using Zaans in trials parses, and have been getting some different reactions. I always understood it to be impractical for trials and considered it cheesing. Whats the word?! Cause if I can start slotting it I get to jump up significantly from my 40k Mag Sorc.
zaans is a legit set to be used in dps you cant count it out due to personal feelings bruh0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I dont know what guilds y'all play in but I have been in very few trials guilds where there were not restrictions on what you could use for a parse for guildnotes/rank. Some dont allow lover, some don't allow pen sets on stam, some don't allow zaans. Some want you to parse with self-ele some don't. In my opinion, parsing with Zaans is impractical because many of the new trials do not allow you to use it effectively as a ranged magicka dps.
That being said, I use it to parse for every guild that allows me to. However I will always swap it for Skoria etc. when actually in the trial. I like the extra health and it works in every fight.0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Apache_Kid wrote: »I dont know what guilds y'all play in but I have been in very few trials guilds where there were not restrictions on what you could use for a parse for guildnotes/rank. Some dont allow lover, some don't allow pen sets on stam, some don't allow zaans. Some want you to parse with self-ele some don't. In my opinion, parsing with Zaans is impractical because many of the new trials do not allow you to use it effectively as a ranged magicka dps.
That being said, I use it to parse for every guild that allows me to. However I will always swap it for Skoria etc. when actually in the trial. I like the extra health and it works in every fight.
a guild cant make you not use something to parse with(especially since they nerf penetration so we cant hit the cap easily anymore) any guild that does that doesnt need to exist cause they have no clue wtf their talking about in progression gaming.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »I dont know what guilds y'all play in but I have been in very few trials guilds where there were not restrictions on what you could use for a parse for guildnotes/rank. Some dont allow lover, some don't allow pen sets on stam, some don't allow zaans. Some want you to parse with self-ele some don't. In my opinion, parsing with Zaans is impractical because many of the new trials do not allow you to use it effectively as a ranged magicka dps.
That being said, I use it to parse for every guild that allows me to. However I will always swap it for Skoria etc. when actually in the trial. I like the extra health and it works in every fight.
a guild cant make you not use something to parse with(especially since they nerf penetration so we cant hit the cap easily anymore) any guild that does that doesnt need to exist cause they have no clue wtf their talking about in progression gaming.
I completely agree. That doesn't mean that they don't exist and are out there.
The number of actual good trials guilds on Xbox NA are few in number. Many of them are not so great and have dumb views on pen etc. However many players who cannont get into the top guilds are pidgeon-holed into one of these other guilds.
It's easy to say just find another guild but it isn't always easy to find a good one. I agree they are wrong but to say that there aren't guilds out there like that (as many in the thread said) is just incorrect and I wanted to point that out.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have never heard of a trial guild banning a set or telling players what they needed to wear. The stronger the trial guild is the more likely players are already doing and wearing what does well legitimately. Zaans would be legitimate.
It depends on the trial group, but I have run across a few with... let's call them, "idiosyncratic requirements." Back before Summerset dropped, it was fairly common to see a requirement that someone in a trial was running NMG, and someone was running Sunder. For healers, it's not uncommon to see groups stipulate that between the two, SPC (or Olorime), Mending, and Worm need to be present. Though it's usually up to the healers to decide who runs what. Of course, some Trial runners will insist that the tanks run specific sets; Alkosh + Torug's, for instance.
It's rarer, but some trial runners will be far more "control oriented," and demand very specific sets. I've seen one example where they required Green Pact for their off-tank. Trial runners expecting specific combinations of monster helms may seem a bit strange, but it's not that out there, overall, when the requirements are reasonable and make sense. Sometimes, they don't.0