Kilandros wrote: »

14 days until CU beta

Yeah we'll see how that goes

I have been half watching CU dev for 3 years now... they are still a LONG way from a real product.

Xsorus wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Arobain wrote: »

name another mmo with bigger pvp battles besides WoW

Guild Wars 2.

And it runs smoothly in the game engine.

Even earlier on it was Dark Age of Camelot and Shadowbane that had huge siege battles.

Define smoothly; cause early on in gw2 they cut down the view distance of zergs and caused zergs to appear suddenly 2 feet in front of you. When they removed that you pretty much only left with using just your basic attack in large fights because nothing else would register. Like I couldn’t even pvp on my ranger during those fights because I was condition based and relied on cooldown abilities that didn’t work in any zerg fight.

Smooth: Antonym - ESO Playing Experience

I played a little bit earlier this year, including WvWvW and it ran just fine. Certainly a darn sight better of an experience than the overall experience in ESO.

If I'd had a guild or folks I knew, I might have stuck around.

Here's the thing to remember, the ESO performance experience is so bloody awful that many games that have mediocre performance are vastly superior in that regard.

frozywozy wrote: »

You forgot the worst bug, staying in combat more than 3/4 of the way walking from one keep to another.

It is soooo much fun to walk/run from Chal to BRK to defend though.

I didn't get out of combat from that until after BRK ticked. While I did make it in time to help defend, it was slow obviously for me to get there.

Ishammael wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

14 days until CU beta

Yeah we'll see how that goes

I have been half watching CU dev for 3 years now... they are still a LONG way from a real product.

Crowfall might be worth keeping tabs on too. They're advertising it as a purely PVP MMO with minor PVE aspects to it. From what I can see, the engine & art style could definitely support those huge battles we were promised in ESO long ago.

@Preyfar you're right on point too, the effort does indeed seem minimal. I don't think they have the manpower to do anything drastic in PVP, or they figured they can't and that's why they don't? Who knows...

Apropos CU. MJ needs a dozen of hardcore testers for the last Weeks before Beta1 release. Check your Emails (Spam-Folder) for more Infos.

Gprime31 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Gprime31 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

ZOS doesnt care.

Did they ever?

Yes, 4 years ago when they marketed the game as "MASSIVE PVP FIGHTS" "3 ALLIANCE WAR" "MEGA(lol)SERVERS"

They seriously dont understand that they have the best PVP system, and theyre just killing it slowly.

Ah... the 1.6 days...

DON'T START.

It's gone. Let it go...

Mickydanz wrote: »

We will stay in ESO until something better comes along - trust me we are all looking. We had entire guilds leave for a game like bless online, just hoping for a gem to tide them over. 250k people watched that launch on twitch, the mmo-pvp community want a fresh new game, however so many would stay and build a community in eso if the bugs just got fixed.

This is so true, especially on console. We keep trying other games because we all know ESO is broken and Zos has refused to completely fix it. I played wow for years and each time it broke, Blizzard took it offline immediately and fixed it. They also had game masters who were accessible. Every time something is broken in ESO, it takes months for Zos to fix it. Why? What is the core issue?

Karivaa wrote: »

Mickydanz wrote: »

We will stay in ESO until something better comes along - trust me we are all looking. We had entire guilds leave for a game like bless online, just hoping for a gem to tide them over. 250k people watched that launch on twitch, the mmo-pvp community want a fresh new game, however so many would stay and build a community in eso if the bugs just got fixed.

This is so true, especially on console. We keep trying other games because we all know ESO is broken and Zos has refused to completely fix it. I played wow for years and each time it broke, Blizzard took it offline immediately and fixed it. They also had game masters who were accessible. Every time something is broken in ESO, it takes months for Zos to fix it. Why? What is the core issue?

Seems to me like most of their dev staff is nowadays (and for some time now) purely dedicated for PVE, Crownstore stuff, dungeons & trials and maybe some minor performance/bug/balance optimizations.

You know, things that they can actually (for the most part) pull off on a schedule, without making everything explode. Literally.

I mean it's clear to see based on what's going on.

Also, based on what I've seen over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if Brian was the only guy left there to actually work on PVP.

It's been so long without any PVP changes, @ZOS_BrianWheeler my man what the hell are you doing, what are they making you work on?

Can you please tell those incompetent suits there that one of the best PVP games out there with so much potential is absolutely going down the drain.

In an ideal world, this game should have been 50-50 between PVE & PVP, where you'd have dozens and dozens of PVP campaigns with thousands and thousands of players on each.

Now don't tell me none of those guys wouldn't make ZO$ any cash, they absolutely would. But no one bothered to setup this infrastructure, so I'm starting to think that it's not really possible to do it.

In other words, I have a feeling it's not about computing power or man-hours, I think it just won't float. But that's just my observation, could be wrong...

maboleth wrote: »

I see it like this - they marketed the game as the ultimate PVP alliance fights, but soon also made and fixed incredible PVE stuff. After overcoming the bad reputation of the early days and "ES doesn't need multiplayer" mindset, many players returned and even more ES players joined ESO for the first time.

So in a nutshell, there's far, far more PVE players and questers than PVPers.

Preyfar wrote: »

Look at how towns were redesigned to allow for capture. The capture points were dropped in without love and care. In Bruma you've got guards standing around in a town that's supposed to have been overrun by daedra, and the townspeople are trying to fight for their lives, and... they just stand there.

Sure, these are PVE mechanics in a PVP zone, sure, but there was minimal development effort put into them. The mechanics work, sure, but they weren't integrated into the game with care to the rest of the game (especially story/quest-based).

If they don't care about doing the effort to make towns work while will they care about the rest of PVP.

Palidon wrote: »

ESO after 4 years is just old news. It is the same crap over and over again. It is most apparent they could care less about the Cyrodiil problems.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

Mickydanz wrote: »

We will stay in ESO until something better comes along - trust me we are all looking. We had entire guilds leave for a game like bless online, just hoping for a gem to tide them over. 250k people watched that launch on twitch, the mmo-pvp community want a fresh new game, however so many would stay and build a community in eso if the bugs just got fixed.

This is so true, especially on console. We keep trying other games because we all know ESO is broken and Zos has refused to completely fix it. I played wow for years and each time it broke, Blizzard took it offline immediately and fixed it. They also had game masters who were accessible. Every time something is broken in ESO, it takes months for Zos to fix it. Why? What is the core issue?

Seems to me like most of their dev staff is nowadays (and for some time now) purely dedicated for PVE, Crownstore stuff, dungeons & trials and maybe some minor performance/bug/balance optimizations.

You know, things that they can actually (for the most part) pull off on a schedule, without making everything explode. Literally.

I mean it's clear to see based on what's going on.

Also, based on what I've seen over the years, I wouldn't be surprised if Brian was the only guy left there to actually work on PVP.

It's been so long without any PVP changes, @ZOS_BrianWheeler my man what the hell are you doing, what are they making you work on?

Can you please tell those incompetent suits there that one of the best PVP games out there with so much potential is absolutely going down the drain.

In an ideal world, this game should have been 50-50 between PVE & PVP, where you'd have dozens and dozens of PVP campaigns with thousands and thousands of players on each.

Now don't tell me none of those guys wouldn't make ZO$ any cash, they absolutely would. But no one bothered to setup this infrastructure, so I'm starting to think that it's not really possible to do it.

In other words, I have a feeling it's not about computing power or man-hours, I think it just won't float. But that's just my observation, could be wrong...

They did make changes to AvA this spring/summer, and Wheeler was on the forums and on stream talking about them. They worked on back-end stuff to increase performance in Cyrodiil, changed the scoring system values (points for objectives), NPC strength etc. But they aren't huge overhauls, because any really major change to how AvA works is going to 1) annoy a bunch of players, 2) create a new set of problems with game performance and balance, 3) require a ton of dedicated hours implement (assuming some changes would be possible without severely upsetting the code they have to work with and around), 4) fail to get a response to justify the effort.

And people often ignore Battlegrounds -- bug fixes, design changes, new mode and maps -- but that's PvP too and takes the time and focus of the PvP team. Look at the number of things added to/revised/fixed for BGs over the last couple of years -- there's your PvP updates and PvP team time spent.

They tried to have lots of campaigns and players for AvA, but even at launch it wasn't the level of success they anticipated. They didn't just have a couple extra unneeded campaigns as proper planning would dictate, they had several. The number of campaigns shrank for years to get where it is now, with temporary campaigns added for seasonal events. AvA, even at it's highest levels of participation and game performance, has always never been wildly popular.

People who like (or once liked) AvA in ESO like to say it's so great and it's a shame that the game had so many flaws at launch, or that the servers/code can't handle big battles better, or that this/that patch changed combat/progression/gear grind in a way that turned PvPers off, or that a few crucial thing haven't been added to "finish" Cyrodiil, or... or... yet ESO AvA has always been a "it would be the best *if* only" situation. The if-only-ism ignores the fact that even during whichever golden era people yearn for from the last four years (pick a patch number), AvA has never done as well as players had hoped or as well as they though it could. Some gave up, some still hope for the magic patch that will bring in the one true fix. However...

>>>>>> Cyrodiil and AvA are, in broad strokes, complete. <<<<<<<

Some tweaking and adding a few things here and there (like when they put in capturable towns or took doors off of resource towers), maybe, but overall the focus is optimization for AvA, not innovation. And while there has been some progress on that goal, a 40-100+ player battle is *always* going to be laggy for a large number of players, a busy campaign will always have a high ping for lots of players, some set or ability is *always* going to be broke, you will *always* siege the same keeps and outposts, etc.

Don't get me wrong, there's still some fun things they could do:

• make the IC zone base game: spread people out by putting some in that map, tie the districts to AvA (holding = points per each & a unique buffer per district) and connect them to the larger war somehow similar to how gate keeps are connected to scroll temple gates
• add "flags/events" that pop up in various (dead) places on the map that tie into the logic of the war to get people to spread out and offer new things to do
• expand/revise AvA skill lines
• give more rewards for leveling AvA ranks

But they will still have performance issues go to the heart of the problems for Cyro. Adding more events, NPCs, connections between different activities, and more players are limited by what the code/servers can handle, so again, keep your expectations reasonable. ESO AvA isn't going to get leaps and bounds better than it is now, just maybe a little less laggy.

The other night me and two other people had a fun glitch where we couldn't move, but we could see everyone else still fighting. After reloading ui we were able to break out of it, but hey. Everything is working as intended.

usmcjdking wrote: »

The PVE/PVP unified approach has massively failed. In practice, not in theory. I still believe the approach is sound and works, but the work put behind balancing both equally is simply not there. The backlog of balance issues with PVP will require an entire dedicated patch; not some incremental "we changed sloads' but reviewing the degradation of PVP over the past 3 years and attempting to alleviate or outright remove some of the more blatantly imbalanced aspects that have occurred since then.

Cyro and PVP in general is too complicated from a design perspective. I mean I commend the team for at least trying to apply copious amounts of gauze to a gunshot wound but it's not going to stop the internal bleeding. It might be salvageable still, but Wheeler & CO need to try to stop any future gunshots instead of reacting to them.

One of the biggest issues with ESO is that any changes done to PVE has an affect on PVP and vice versa... they can't balance one with out it ruining the other. Well they could but they always tackle the problem the wrong way. For instance.. if Trial mobs are to strong and take to long to die they buff DPS of players instead of adjusting the NPC mobs. This then carries over to PVP because now players are hitting way to hard. Players then start doing to much damage in PVP so they nerf damage and now players struggle again in PVE.

They need to find a way to separate PVE and PVP so they can freely adjust one side of the house and not burn down the other.

That and they really need to steal some quality devs to help fix the mess that is ESO now!