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Meteor + Rune Cage/Petrify/Aspect of Terror Combination Needs to be Looked At

  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    bardx86 wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    raasdal wrote: »
    First, i assumed this was a serious necro.

    How about making a build that does not get destroyed by litterally the OLDEST universal ultimate burst combo in the game?

    If you cant take a single Meteor to the face, then you need to look at your own build, and how much you rely on Dodge / Block to mitigate damage.

    Making such a build was pretty simple before patch, but after you add 9-10k tooltip dmg to that (i.e. the Summerset Rune Cage changes) it becomes a matter of having to play a tank build to survive the burst.

    In retrospect, the Rune Cage now dealing 9-10k tooltip dmg is the same as if they had added a patch note for NB that said: "Incap now deals 60% more damage" - that's how much extra burst the sorc combo got from Rune Cage change alone (more light attack dmg adds even more to it).


    Such burst wouldn't be a problem if it actually required some skill to land and/or could be countered somehow by classes without access to Shimmering Shield/Wings (to prevent Frag/light attack portion of burst)/Ritual (to get rid of Curse/Wrath) - at the moment it just converts medium armor stamblades/sorcs into free AP.

    I ran this build all day to day Its a 7K tooltip pease lets try and keep this honest. It hits in PVP round 3k and a lot of time 1k, I did get one 5k, almost fainted. It can be an effective combo however its freaking VERY hard to line this all up as 90% of the time you are going to get stunned before you finish a 5 GCD combo. Good players will survive the combo and it happened quite a bit today. I still think sorcs still feel a bit weak. Its either we totally mash the opponent or we are then behind the curve and it gets hard to maintain any defensive posture once focused. Anyone that can survive that burst will kill the sorc in the end.

    Sorcs are good potatomasher. ;)
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • bardx86
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    bardx86 wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    raasdal wrote: »
    First, i assumed this was a serious necro.

    How about making a build that does not get destroyed by litterally the OLDEST universal ultimate burst combo in the game?

    If you cant take a single Meteor to the face, then you need to look at your own build, and how much you rely on Dodge / Block to mitigate damage.

    Making such a build was pretty simple before patch, but after you add 9-10k tooltip dmg to that (i.e. the Summerset Rune Cage changes) it becomes a matter of having to play a tank build to survive the burst.

    In retrospect, the Rune Cage now dealing 9-10k tooltip dmg is the same as if they had added a patch note for NB that said: "Incap now deals 60% more damage" - that's how much extra burst the sorc combo got from Rune Cage change alone (more light attack dmg adds even more to it).


    Such burst wouldn't be a problem if it actually required some skill to land and/or could be countered somehow by classes without access to Shimmering Shield/Wings (to prevent Frag/light attack portion of burst)/Ritual (to get rid of Curse/Wrath) - at the moment it just converts medium armor stamblades/sorcs into free AP.

    I ran this build all day to day Its a 7K tooltip pease lets try and keep this honest. It hits in PVP round 3k and a lot of time 1k, I did get one 5k, almost fainted. It can be an effective combo however its freaking VERY hard to line this all up as 90% of the time you are going to get stunned before you finish a 5 GCD combo. Good players will survive the combo and it happened quite a bit today. I still think sorcs still feel a bit weak. Its either we totally mash the opponent or we are then behind the curve and it gets hard to maintain any defensive posture once focused. Anyone that can survive that burst will kill the sorc in the end.

    Sorcs are good potatomasher. ;)

    and add a bit of salt and cheese we are the best.
  • Derra
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    Tbh - a simple fix for this would be to reduce time for meteor to land aswell as decreasing cost + dmg of the ultimate.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Feanor
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    @Derra

    I’d rather have a good class damage ultimate. I have used Meteor since forever and without the possibility to make it hit with a stun it’s an absolutely worthless Ult. Due to the most visible telegraph in the game everyone blocks and rolls this immediately, and you just wasted 200 Ultimate on negligible damage. Reducing the time to land won’t make that better because the telegraph makes it so easy to block.

    On the topic: While a lot of Sorcs have said in the PTS phase that the new Rune Cage is absurd, there had to be something done about the nature of Sorc burst - highly telegraphed, with huge delay, and therefore easily shrugged off. Rune Cage changes that. It’s not the solution I‘d have liked (which would have been a class overhaul), but RC is at least an effective tool in the kit for once.
    Edited by Feanor on May 28, 2018 7:00AM
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Arkangeloski
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    This is the most absurd combination in the game. The ONLY counter to the Meteor + [unblockable stun skill] combination is immovable. Why in the world would you add unblockable skills to this game, ZOS?

    You went ahead and gave the absolute best burst timing ultimate in the game (meteor) skills that guarantee it will hit for max damage unless immovable is active. This combination was annoying at first, but now it's running rampant in Xbox NA and any time immovable isn't active, you are susceptible to full damage from meteor.

    Cc break rune p cc immunity dodgeroll out of meteor since u won't get knocked down, heal heal heal lol

    If you can CC break and Dodge roll prior to the comet landing, they timed it wrong

    And if you don't die right then with the curse and wrath, they just played the whole darn thing wrong

    I guess they were just bad lol ;)
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Feanor wrote: »
    @Derra

    I’d rather have a good class damage ultimate. I have used Meteor since forever and without the possibility to make it hit with a stun it’s an absolutely worthless Ult. Due to the most visible telegraph in the game everyone blocks and rolls this immediately, and you just wasted 200 Ultimate on negligible damage. Reducing the time to land won’t make that better because the telegraph makes it so easy to block.

    On the topic: While a lot of Sorcs have said in the PTS phase that the new Rune Cage is absurd, there had to be something done about the nature of Sorc burst - highly telegraphed, with huge delay, and therefore easily shrugged off. Rune Cage changes that. It’s not the solution I‘d have liked (which would have been a class overhaul), but RC is at least an effective tool in the kit for once.

    to be honest - i don´t see issue with cage in anything but 1v1 or Xv1 encounters. Games not getting balanced for that scenario.

    If you let a sorc cast a full rotation in a multiple player scenario without ccing or line of sighting you just got unlucky - same can be said about unlucky ganks.
    I´d even go as far as saying cage is still subpar to reach for most players in any situation not involving a single player on one side.

    Not even going into the medium armor being subpar debate.
    Edited by Derra on May 28, 2018 7:15AM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • technohic
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    Derra wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    @Derra

    I’d rather have a good class damage ultimate. I have used Meteor since forever and without the possibility to make it hit with a stun it’s an absolutely worthless Ult. Due to the most visible telegraph in the game everyone blocks and rolls this immediately, and you just wasted 200 Ultimate on negligible damage. Reducing the time to land won’t make that better because the telegraph makes it so easy to block.

    On the topic: While a lot of Sorcs have said in the PTS phase that the new Rune Cage is absurd, there had to be something done about the nature of Sorc burst - highly telegraphed, with huge delay, and therefore easily shrugged off. Rune Cage changes that. It’s not the solution I‘d have liked (which would have been a class overhaul), but RC is at least an effective tool in the kit for once.

    to be honest - i don´t see issue with cage in anything but 1v1 or Xv1 encounters. Games not getting balanced for that scenario.

    If you let a sorc cast a full rotation in a multiple player scenario without ccing or line of sighting you just got unlucky - same can be said about unlucky ganks.
    I´d even go as far as saying cage is still subpar to reach for most players in any situation not involving a single player on one side.

    Not even going into the medium armor being subpar debate.

    Only time it’s not Xv1 or 1v1 is a 1vX when you think about it. If you are fighting group cs group; how often do you really get targeted by just 1 player, or do you target 1 player without someone from your side joining in? Only time that happens is if I’m wandering around by myself or some enemy is walking by themselves to where we’d be considered 1vXing which is still XV1 depending on side perspective.

    So which situation do you really not find it a problem?
  • Derra
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    technohic wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    @Derra

    I’d rather have a good class damage ultimate. I have used Meteor since forever and without the possibility to make it hit with a stun it’s an absolutely worthless Ult. Due to the most visible telegraph in the game everyone blocks and rolls this immediately, and you just wasted 200 Ultimate on negligible damage. Reducing the time to land won’t make that better because the telegraph makes it so easy to block.

    On the topic: While a lot of Sorcs have said in the PTS phase that the new Rune Cage is absurd, there had to be something done about the nature of Sorc burst - highly telegraphed, with huge delay, and therefore easily shrugged off. Rune Cage changes that. It’s not the solution I‘d have liked (which would have been a class overhaul), but RC is at least an effective tool in the kit for once.

    to be honest - i don´t see issue with cage in anything but 1v1 or Xv1 encounters. Games not getting balanced for that scenario.

    If you let a sorc cast a full rotation in a multiple player scenario without ccing or line of sighting you just got unlucky - same can be said about unlucky ganks.
    I´d even go as far as saying cage is still subpar to reach for most players in any situation not involving a single player on one side.

    Not even going into the medium armor being subpar debate.

    Only time it’s not Xv1 or 1v1 is a 1vX when you think about it. If you are fighting group cs group; how often do you really get targeted by just 1 player, or do you target 1 player without someone from your side joining in? Only time that happens is if I’m wandering around by myself or some enemy is walking by themselves to where we’d be considered 1vXing which is still XV1 depending on side perspective.

    So which situation do you really not find it a problem?

    I don´t find it to be a problem in any situation you´re not outnumbered and total number of players is > 1.

    I used Xv1 because it highlights that it´s only an issue for the 1 player not for the X. I don´t find it too bad in grp v grp - petrify existed for a long time in that scenario.
    Edited by Derra on May 28, 2018 1:48PM
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Olupajmibanan
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    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Lol i have been obliterating people with this prior to the buff, i can't wait. Curse, meteor, cage, wrath is easily the most broken skill combo in the game. It doesn't only effect bad players. It kills everyone equally in the right hands.

    If the sorc does this combo to you at full health they don't respect you and think you're a noob. Good builds don't get zero'd from full hp, but good sorcs don't attempt it at 100% against good players either, they shoot for about 18k hp where it's almost a guarantee kill vs any one.
    So like Sorcs can do what every NB and DK does in duels

    Meh, nothing new to me. Good players have used such combos for years

    So we're at a point where players who refuse to play meta tank builds (or mag build with shield stack) to avoid instagibs are considered bad players with bad builds?

    Perhaps you can see why people would object to the current "balance" then.


    I'm fine with high dmg builds carrying a higher risk & requiring much more effort when it comes to staying alive, but the new Rune Cage is taking it too far and doesn't just make it difficult, but impossible (even with 7 impen 25k health & min-max'd defensive CPs).

    I'm saying if you get 100 to 0 by this combo you're not running a sustainable build based on combat using resistance and high impen, and are likely in a build based on permablocking, pure dmg, or built for zerging. I'm also saying that this combo is op.

    Talking cp campaigns, i don't play my sorc in bgs.

    But that's the thing, I can be in 7 impen 7 tri-stat glyphs and still get one shot by the combo from a sorc that isn't even max dmg build. This is from PTS:
    https://youtu.be/NhH3-fOLMeU

    Only way to get tankier on medium armor would be using Protective Jewelry and/or tank sets like Impregnable (though on the 2nd clip my stamblade friend is wearing Impreg) or Brass - but now we're starting to talk about the very kind of low damage tank build that isn't really appealing to play for many people.

    You're thinking wrong direction.

    Against builds that can 100-0 you, you use an immovable pot and 100-0 them.

    You do not try to out defense them, it's not gonna work unless you are like permablocker rock type thing.

    Also why duels are absolutely sh for balance. In a BGs you gotta be able to kill like 4 more peeps, not just 1 via an expensive ult and a hard CC, meaning even if he 100-0s a player, he can't really survive the others.

    Oh and mNB with Merc or a mDK with petrify and Leap/meteor have been doing this for far longer than mSorc

    Completely agree with this. Duels are nowhere near something that we could call a worthy reference. BGs are another story. You can find an easy victim for the expensive but devastating single target combo, but it will have little impact on overal BG progress. Secondly, CC immunity is global and it is hard to find a target in BGs that isn't already CC immune from some other source. So in most cases you can't even use the combo to take down crucial targets in time. Not even saying that in most cases I can't even store up enough ultimate becauae I am constantly forced to pop my resto ult.

    A good combo to have fun moments with, but does very little in terms of overal BG progress. Negate is far far more impactful in BGs.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on May 28, 2018 2:44PM
  • Lord-Otto
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    Derra wrote: »
    Feanor wrote: »
    @Derra

    I’d rather have a good class damage ultimate. I have used Meteor since forever and without the possibility to make it hit with a stun it’s an absolutely worthless Ult. Due to the most visible telegraph in the game everyone blocks and rolls this immediately, and you just wasted 200 Ultimate on negligible damage. Reducing the time to land won’t make that better because the telegraph makes it so easy to block.

    On the topic: While a lot of Sorcs have said in the PTS phase that the new Rune Cage is absurd, there had to be something done about the nature of Sorc burst - highly telegraphed, with huge delay, and therefore easily shrugged off. Rune Cage changes that. It’s not the solution I‘d have liked (which would have been a class overhaul), but RC is at least an effective tool in the kit for once.

    I´d even go as far as saying cage is still subpar to reach for most players in any situation not involving a single player on one side.
    Why?
    (o_o)

  • Minalan
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    Derra wrote: »
    Tbh - a simple fix for this would be to reduce time for meteor to land aswell as decreasing cost + dmg of the ultimate.

    Yes to the reduced landing time, I’m not feeling the reduced cost and damage though.

    I mean, you don’t see dawnbreaker with this kind of Telegraph, I don’t see why meteor should.
  • DDuke
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    Minalan wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

    Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

    Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
    Rune cage is the new excuse this time

    Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

    It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

    Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

    This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

    The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

    Balance is a relative thing mate

    Burst has gone up for all builds, even previous sorc builds like all the Flame Reach or Scamp stun related combos etc.


    The only thing that has scaled up disproportionately is the Rune Cage combo, as the skill not only got higher tooltip from other changes in the patch (staves counting as 2 set pieces etc) but also got it's damage actually "unlocked" as it previously wouldn't deal any damage when CC broken (as in, 99,99% of time)

    It's kinda like as if stamblades' fear suddenly got 9-10k tooltip - trust me, you'd be complaining (and so would I).

    I’d prefer the rune cage damage get out back on crystal frags personally. To me it doesn’t matter *where* it is, so long as the damage is done. At least with rune cage, if you’re CC immune you aren’t getting hit by it.

    The only issue with rune cage is the long range on it. Fear and fossil are almost point blank range. The counterplay is to kite a bit out of that kill zone. With rune cage you can’t escape it.

    You're right, without the range it wouldn't nearly as big of a problem. That said, it still has twice the tooltip damage of Fossilize as well.


    This is starting to be a frequent occurrence in this patch:
    https://youtu.be/iEzSDS5yWqI


    ...can we have Dragon Bones patch back pls?
  • Xvorg
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

    Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

    Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
    Rune cage is the new excuse this time

    Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

    It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

    Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

    This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

    The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

    Balance is a relative thing mate

    Burst has gone up for all builds, even previous sorc builds like all the Flame Reach or Scamp stun related combos etc.


    The only thing that has scaled up disproportionately is the Rune Cage combo, as the skill not only got higher tooltip from other changes in the patch (staves counting as 2 set pieces etc) but also got it's damage actually "unlocked" as it previously wouldn't deal any damage when CC broken (as in, 99,99% of time)

    It's kinda like as if stamblades' fear suddenly got 9-10k tooltip - trust me, you'd be complaining (and so would I).

    I’d prefer the rune cage damage get out back on crystal frags personally. To me it doesn’t matter *where* it is, so long as the damage is done. At least with rune cage, if you’re CC immune you aren’t getting hit by it.

    The only issue with rune cage is the long range on it. Fear and fossil are almost point blank range. The counterplay is to kite a bit out of that kill zone. With rune cage you can’t escape it.

    You're right, without the range it wouldn't nearly as big of a problem. That said, it still has twice the tooltip damage of Fossilize as well.


    This is starting to be a frequent occurrence in this patch:
    https://youtu.be/iEzSDS5yWqI


    ...can we have Dragon Bones patch back pls?

    But, but... sorcs have no space in their bars for cage...

    TBH I take old frags stun any day instead of cage. At least you were able to reflect the frag proc
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

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  • DDuke
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    Not sure how this is an issue. Stam blade and stam warden put out much more burst than before

    Does counterplay really matter when dawn breaker/ incap is your main spammable ?

    Yet it's always sorc which gets the nerf hammer.
    Rune cage is the new excuse this time

    Rune cage front damage design is stupid, adding damage on a 100% chance of stun on class with a full delayed burst is bad design.

    It would be far more interessting to make rune cage a dot (double the tooltip), it would help sorc in their main weakness : having good pressure between bursts.

    Yeah I agree it is bad design wise. The amount of burst damage from stam has gone up this patch so why should only sorc have a handicap.

    This game has far more problems which need to fixed first before we nerf rune cage. Ideally i would just want the stun on frag back but that's not happening is it?

    The general idea of balance seems to be if some *** is overperforming just nerf it because no one gives a damn about how it affects other skills/ classes right?

    Balance is a relative thing mate

    Burst has gone up for all builds, even previous sorc builds like all the Flame Reach or Scamp stun related combos etc.


    The only thing that has scaled up disproportionately is the Rune Cage combo, as the skill not only got higher tooltip from other changes in the patch (staves counting as 2 set pieces etc) but also got it's damage actually "unlocked" as it previously wouldn't deal any damage when CC broken (as in, 99,99% of time)

    It's kinda like as if stamblades' fear suddenly got 9-10k tooltip - trust me, you'd be complaining (and so would I).

    I’d prefer the rune cage damage get out back on crystal frags personally. To me it doesn’t matter *where* it is, so long as the damage is done. At least with rune cage, if you’re CC immune you aren’t getting hit by it.

    The only issue with rune cage is the long range on it. Fear and fossil are almost point blank range. The counterplay is to kite a bit out of that kill zone. With rune cage you can’t escape it.

    You're right, without the range it wouldn't nearly as big of a problem. That said, it still has twice the tooltip damage of Fossilize as well.


    This is starting to be a frequent occurrence in this patch:
    https://youtu.be/iEzSDS5yWqI


    ...can we have Dragon Bones patch back pls?

    But, but... sorcs have no space in their bars for cage...

    TBH I take old frags stun any day instead of cage. At least you were able to reflect the frag proc

    Reflect, dodge, cloak... it had plenty of counterplays.

    In that clip above you can see me cloaking right after a kill - well, unfortunately a sorc had managed to press his cage before which goes straight through my cloak & I'm dead as I break it (where as before patch I could've CC broken+dodge rolled into cloak).
  • Jsmalls
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    Lol i have been obliterating people with this prior to the buff, i can't wait. Curse, meteor, cage, wrath is easily the most broken skill combo in the game. It doesn't only effect bad players. It kills everyone equally in the right hands.

    If the sorc does this combo to you at full health they don't respect you and think you're a noob. Good builds don't get zero'd from full hp, but good sorcs don't attempt it at 100% against good players either, they shoot for about 18k hp where it's almost a guarantee kill vs any one.

    @Brutusmax1mus

    You realize that the first 3 abilities in that combo don't cause initial damage right? And that your opponent would have to sit at 18k health for 3 GCDs for this to even have a chance at working? With the meta health for most players being 25k they would have to be sitting below 70% health for 3 GCDs without healing, CCing you, or pressuring you into breaking your combo. While I agree that potatoes will let you do this to them, any player with half a brain will not. It's strong on live if and only if you combo curse, meteor, rune cage, frag, and hope to get the execute off on them. But that's 5 GCD, and the stars all aligning, mostly everything critting, and the player deciding not to heal.

    This is a hard to pull off, but good combo on live (console), but will be probably over tuned with summerset between the light attack buffs and rune cage buff.
  • Waffennacht
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    Jsmalls wrote: »
    Lol i have been obliterating people with this prior to the buff, i can't wait. Curse, meteor, cage, wrath is easily the most broken skill combo in the game. It doesn't only effect bad players. It kills everyone equally in the right hands.

    If the sorc does this combo to you at full health they don't respect you and think you're a noob. Good builds don't get zero'd from full hp, but good sorcs don't attempt it at 100% against good players either, they shoot for about 18k hp where it's almost a guarantee kill vs any one.

    @Brutusmax1mus

    You realize that the first 3 abilities in that combo don't cause initial damage right? And that your opponent would have to sit at 18k health for 3 GCDs for this to even have a chance at working? With the meta health for most players being 25k they would have to be sitting below 70% health for 3 GCDs without healing, CCing you, or pressuring you into breaking your combo. While I agree that potatoes will let you do this to them, any player with half a brain will not. It's strong on live if and only if you combo curse, meteor, rune cage, frag, and hope to get the execute off on them. But that's 5 GCD, and the stars all aligning, mostly everything critting, and the player deciding not to heal.

    This is a hard to pull off, but good combo on live (console), but will be probably over tuned with summerset between the light attack buffs and rune cage buff.

    He didn't mention, but it's implied, is the caluurion 8k hit and the sload dot :trollface:
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Derra
    Derra
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    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    But Sorc combo is clearly the most unacceptable one here! >:)
    Edited by IZZEFlameLash on May 29, 2018 7:20AM
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    DDude, the sorc combo requires precise timing and long preparation. Frontloaded burst is much easier to use. Do I hear "Incap"? Anyone?

    But more importantly, the sorc burst preparation gives the non-sorc pleeenty of opportunities to sabotage the burst. If you hinder just one of the skills, the sorc has the burst ruined and dealt little damage and no significant pressure. What this means, is that the COUNTERPLAY to sorc takes more skill.

    When one complains about "easy sorc burst" I only hear whining from a player not skilled enough to prevent that burst. You can't just run, you gotta know when to get the momentum.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    You're simply wrong. With the damage out there now, no sorc can complete their full damage rotation against a competent opponent. They ALWAYS have to break it off due to either having to re-shield or die before they get up to the 'time to cage' part. Or having to break CC, messing up the combo - causing a re-start... and unlike the NB cancelling his combo, the sorc is out there , in the open for all to see and target.
    It is only deadly vs potatoes or of you manage to hide behind someone else and so not get targeted yourself - and that someone else doesn't also screw it up by cc-ing them which means you can't cage when it's time.

    Honestly, you are waaay over-exaggerating the strength of this. Honestly, it was stronger last patch before the damage ramped up. At least them, it was possible to survive long enough to cast the full rotation.
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
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    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    DDude, the sorc combo requires precise timing and long preparation. Frontloaded burst is much easier to use. Do I hear "Incap"? Anyone?

    But more importantly, the sorc burst preparation gives the non-sorc pleeenty of opportunities to sabotage the burst. If you hinder just one of the skills, the sorc has the burst ruined and dealt little damage and no significant pressure. What this means, is that the COUNTERPLAY to sorc takes more skill.

    When one complains about "easy sorc burst" I only hear whining from a player not skilled enough to prevent that burst. You can't just run, you gotta know when to get the momentum.

    Did you watch the video I posted above? I'm visible for 2 seconds (the time that sorc has to "prepare" burst) and I'm dead to the first Rune Cage because I play a medium armor build and not a tank build.

    There's no time for me to "sabotage" the burst, in fact I don't even see the sorc from my camera angle before I'm dead and there's nothing I can do to prevent that burst (you can see me cloaking in the video, getting hit by Rune Cage through cloak & then dying as I break free).

    ...and this is just one clip, I've dozens of similar ones from just a few hours of playing yesterday.
    Biro123 wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    You're simply wrong. With the damage out there now, no sorc can complete their full damage rotation against a competent opponent. They ALWAYS have to break it off due to either having to re-shield or die before they get up to the 'time to cage' part. Or having to break CC, messing up the combo - causing a re-start... and unlike the NB cancelling his combo, the sorc is out there , in the open for all to see and target.
    It is only deadly vs potatoes or of you manage to hide behind someone else and so not get targeted yourself - and that someone else doesn't also screw it up by cc-ing them which means you can't cage when it's time.

    Honestly, you are waaay over-exaggerating the strength of this. Honestly, it was stronger last patch before the damage ramped up. At least them, it was possible to survive long enough to cast the full rotation.

    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.
    Edited by DDuke on May 29, 2018 11:27AM
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    DDuke wrote: »
    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.

    False, that's how medium armor without fortified brass looks.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.

    False, that's how medium armor without fortified brass looks.

    Yeah, I could also post a video of how I fail to kill that lvl 35 in the beginning and then get zerged down by the 20 people around me because I wore a zero dmg tank set like Fortified Brass.


    Not interested in playing a meta tank build (or dodge rolling around a bloody tree with 3k stam regen spamming Incaps & Relentless), and if I was I'd just go heavy armor and loose less stats to gain that mitigation.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    DDude, the sorc combo requires precise timing and long preparation. Frontloaded burst is much easier to use. Do I hear "Incap"? Anyone?

    But more importantly, the sorc burst preparation gives the non-sorc pleeenty of opportunities to sabotage the burst. If you hinder just one of the skills, the sorc has the burst ruined and dealt little damage and no significant pressure. What this means, is that the COUNTERPLAY to sorc takes more skill.

    When one complains about "easy sorc burst" I only hear whining from a player not skilled enough to prevent that burst. You can't just run, you gotta know when to get the momentum.

    Did you watch the video I posted above? I'm visible for 2 seconds (the time that sorc has to "prepare" burst) and I'm dead to the first Rune Cage because I play a medium armor build and not a tank build.

    There's no time for me to "sabotage" the burst, in fact I don't even see the sorc from my camera angle before I'm dead and there's nothing I can do to prevent that burst (you can see me cloaking in the video, getting hit by Rune Cage through cloak & then dying as I break free).

    ...and this is just one clip, I've dozens of similar ones from just a few hours of playing yesterday.
    Biro123 wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    You're simply wrong. With the damage out there now, no sorc can complete their full damage rotation against a competent opponent. They ALWAYS have to break it off due to either having to re-shield or die before they get up to the 'time to cage' part. Or having to break CC, messing up the combo - causing a re-start... and unlike the NB cancelling his combo, the sorc is out there , in the open for all to see and target.
    It is only deadly vs potatoes or of you manage to hide behind someone else and so not get targeted yourself - and that someone else doesn't also screw it up by cc-ing them which means you can't cage when it's time.

    Honestly, you are waaay over-exaggerating the strength of this. Honestly, it was stronger last patch before the damage ramped up. At least them, it was possible to survive long enough to cast the full rotation.

    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.

    If you're spotted in the middle of 20+ opponents, yeah.. Like I said, if the sorc is free to cast.. But he didn't even have to!!

    Looking in slo-mo, it looks like you died to nothing more than 2 light-attacks/reach/cage/fury. None of those are really big hitters, and most people in cyro can survive that from full health with added meteor/curse/frag (which takes time to set up).

    I'd never start with cage unless trying to cc you to protect someone... to die to it like that - it just looks like a case of running glass-cannon and paying the price.
    I've had to make adjustments to try to handle the damage increase. We just have to accept now that its very easy to get deleted very quickly by any class if running a build that massively prioritises offence.
    Edited by Biro123 on May 29, 2018 11:51AM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
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  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Biro123 wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    DDude, the sorc combo requires precise timing and long preparation. Frontloaded burst is much easier to use. Do I hear "Incap"? Anyone?

    But more importantly, the sorc burst preparation gives the non-sorc pleeenty of opportunities to sabotage the burst. If you hinder just one of the skills, the sorc has the burst ruined and dealt little damage and no significant pressure. What this means, is that the COUNTERPLAY to sorc takes more skill.

    When one complains about "easy sorc burst" I only hear whining from a player not skilled enough to prevent that burst. You can't just run, you gotta know when to get the momentum.

    Did you watch the video I posted above? I'm visible for 2 seconds (the time that sorc has to "prepare" burst) and I'm dead to the first Rune Cage because I play a medium armor build and not a tank build.

    There's no time for me to "sabotage" the burst, in fact I don't even see the sorc from my camera angle before I'm dead and there's nothing I can do to prevent that burst (you can see me cloaking in the video, getting hit by Rune Cage through cloak & then dying as I break free).

    ...and this is just one clip, I've dozens of similar ones from just a few hours of playing yesterday.
    Biro123 wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »

    This is a textbook definition of irony right there.

    I´m glad you put the instakill snipe in the video. I´m laughing tears.

    :joy:

    "Instakill", I actually didn't land my combo properly there (was too close) and the 19k health lvl 35 player lived after the first burst & I had to light attack+bombard again for the kill (luckily he didn't have Rally & couldn't heal up to full after that initial burst). All of that is also avoidable/outshieldable/blockable and you see me cancel many snipes before that kill because targets were badly positioned or had too much health (or dmg shield up).

    See, unlike the sorc burst mine actually takes some skill to land and has counterplay - where as any random sorc can get a kill on a medium armor build now thanks to Rune Cage, while also having access to 30k+ shield stacks that prevent the same from happening to them.

    That's textbook definition of bad balance.

    You're simply wrong. With the damage out there now, no sorc can complete their full damage rotation against a competent opponent. They ALWAYS have to break it off due to either having to re-shield or die before they get up to the 'time to cage' part. Or having to break CC, messing up the combo - causing a re-start... and unlike the NB cancelling his combo, the sorc is out there , in the open for all to see and target.
    It is only deadly vs potatoes or of you manage to hide behind someone else and so not get targeted yourself - and that someone else doesn't also screw it up by cc-ing them which means you can't cage when it's time.

    Honestly, you are waaay over-exaggerating the strength of this. Honestly, it was stronger last patch before the damage ramped up. At least them, it was possible to survive long enough to cast the full rotation.

    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.

    If you're spotted in the middle of 20+ opponents, yeah.. Like I said, if the sorc is free to cast.. But he didn't even have to!!

    Looking in slo-mo, it looks like you died to nothing more than 2 light-attacks/reach/cage/fury. None of those are really big hitters, and most people in cyro can survive that from full health with added meteor/curse/frag (which takes time to set up).

    I'd never start with cage unless trying to cc you to protect someone... to die to it like that - it just looks like a case of running glass-cannon and paying the price.
    I've had to make adjustments to try to handle the damage increase. We just have to accept now that its very easy to get deleted very quickly on any build that massively prioritises offence.

    ...or maybe there's just a lot of people actually running high damage builds from the safety of a zerg?

    This is as tanky as a bow build gets: you rely on being able to one shot people (just like sorcs with their burst) so getting a high health pool isn't an option.

    Still, this used to be survivable in previous patch as you'd just CC break the Cage & dodge roll into cloak with just a little bit of health left.

    Now I CC break the Cage & I'm dead, just as I thought after testing Cage on PTS.


    Where previously I had a high risk playstyle that left no margin for error but was very rewarding, I can now get deleted without even making a mistake.
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    Duke, you don't die from just a single Cage. Sorc burst requires four seconds, not counting shielding beforehand. You lost the upper hand in advance, and this is when you rightfully die.
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.

    False, that's how medium armor without fortified brass looks.

    Yeah, I could also post a video of how I fail to kill that lvl 35 in the beginning and then get zerged down by the 20 people around me because I wore a zero dmg tank set like Fortified Brass.


    Not interested in playing a meta tank build (or dodge rolling around a bloody tree with 3k stam regen spamming Incaps & Relentless), and if I was I'd just go heavy armor and loose less stats to gain that mitigation.

    Not even arguing on why people wear medium + fortified.

    The point is you claim medium is quishy as hell, but most people run with mitigation set and still in medium.

    When you complain, be presise.

    If course u will not wear fortified on a gank build.
    Edited by Aedaryl on May 29, 2018 11:59AM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Duke, you don't die from just a single Cage. Sorc burst requires four seconds, not counting shielding beforehand. You lost the upper hand in advance, and this is when you rightfully die.

    What "upper hand"? What "four seconds"?

    I'm not some random pug with low unoptimized CPs & 7 divines gear, yet I go from 100>0 within 2 seconds of being visible and the only reason any of that burst lands is because ZOS in their infinite wisdom has decided Rune Cage must not only go through block, dodge & reflect, but also through cloak.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Aedaryl wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Aedaryl wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    I guess you didn't watch the video either. That's how Summerset looks for medium armor builds, take a close look.

    False, that's how medium armor without fortified brass looks.

    Yeah, I could also post a video of how I fail to kill that lvl 35 in the beginning and then get zerged down by the 20 people around me because I wore a zero dmg tank set like Fortified Brass.


    Not interested in playing a meta tank build (or dodge rolling around a bloody tree with 3k stam regen spamming Incaps & Relentless), and if I was I'd just go heavy armor and loose less stats to gain that mitigation.

    Not even arguing on why people wear medium + fortified.

    The point is you claim medium is quishy as hell, but most people run with mitigation set and still in medium.

    When you complain, be presise.

    If course u will not wear fortified on a gank build.

    At this point you should just assume I'll never be playing anything that is meta (which Fortified Brass or Impregnable aren't btw, most ppl still run regen heavy Eternal Hunt/Bone Pirate etc in open world) or a boring tank build that can make mistakes and still live because of broken game mechanics.


    And you can also assume that I will complain about anything that forces people into those boring meta playstyles & suppresses non-meta builds like mine for no reason.
This discussion has been closed.