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The state of Warden PvE healer (analysis and suggestions)

FakeFox
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I have now played Warden Healer rather actively since Morrowind PTS and quickly came to the conclusion that it is not exactly competitive in a large portion of PvE. Having done pretty much all PvE content with it I have experienced what Warden can excel at and how much fun it can be, however I have also experienced how underwhelming the performance can be especially in classic trial healing. With Summerset on the horizon, bringing quite a few changes to healing, I figured it would be a perfect time to express my opinion.

Please be aware that this is the perspective of a endgame PvE player and I am talking mainly about the performance in progress and leaderboard runs here. I'm fully aware that a Warden can heal 90% of the game just fine.

Before I start with my analysis and suggestions I need to say that I don't want Warden to become Templar 2.0. Templar is the top dog of PvE healing and just turning the Warden into a Templar would be a easy solution, however it would be a lazy one as well. I enjoy playing Warden and for sure don't want it too lose it's individuality, however I will still need to make a few comparisons to Templar in order to showcase the issues.

I will first go over the general issues and later go into more detail on certain skills, passives and mechanics. My first problem with the Warden is that many skills feel clunky with long animations that don't cancel well, unreliable targeting and suboptimal mechanics. Secondly many of the wardens passives are very nice on paper however perform rather poorly in raids due to weird synergies with skills and weak scaling. And lastly the Warden has his functionalities split up over many skills with often high cost or short duration, making them not worth taking but therefore losing out on stats or indeed taking those skills but wasting a lot of GCDs (global cooldowns) on just managing selfbuffs.

The two main reasons for a class choice in PvE are it’s convenience and power. Currently the Warden loses out in both points. It is generally harder to play and less reliable then other classes, but also offers less in terms of group utility. In comparison the Templar offers similar healing with more reliable and streamlined mechanics, leading to easier and more reliable gameplay, more effective rotations and ultimately more power for the group with stronger buffs and higher uptimes.

Now to the more detailed part...

Green Balance:

1. Fungal Growth (Enchanted Growth)
A high healing and high cost skill that gives additional buffs, nothing wrong with that in theory, however there are problems.
First of all the buffs (Minor Intellect/Endurance) are nice to have but a lot of builds don’t need them or have other sources. Secondly the skill requires certain positioning to hit. Because it is a very narrow cone you often would need to stand very far back to effectively hit your group, making it simply inconvenient to hit or even unusable in many fights. This creates the issue that you need to use a very inconvenient skill in order to apply a not so great buff in a unreliable way, which ends up being not worth it in my opinion.

Suggestion: Make the cone wider at the base, so that it becomes more reliable to hit and does require less additional effort. This would turn it into a effective group heal in many situations, making it worth taking and therefor turning the additional buffs into a actual strength of the Warden healer.

2. Healing Seed (Budding Seed)
Corrupting Pollen is clearly a PvP morph, so I won't comment on that.
Budding Seed is a amazing skill if not for one huge problem. The heal is pretty strong, it is insanely cheap and gives a additional synergy. However it requires two casts and therefor two GCDs to be used. This pretty much breaks the skill as it becomes too weak to heal the situations where you would want a strong AOE heal (Mage execute, Assembly General execute, etc.) The synergy is simply not enough to make up for it, as you can't rely on DDs taking synergies for their healing even with the improved synergy system. It is nice for alkosh uptimes and a few special situations but that's it. In its current form it is simply too specific to be worth a slot in most fights.

Suggestion: Remove the option to make it go off early and replace by making it go off instantly every time you place a new Budding Seed. This would effectively remove one GCD and make it therefore tick every second and be viable in the before mentioned situations. In order for this to be not over performing make it cost a bit more and have the heal become stronger the longer it is placed, rewarding prospective play without making it useless in high damage phases.

3. Living Vines (Leeching Vines & Living Trellis)
Again a great skill if not for one problem. The targeting is absolutely unreliable, hitting the target you actually want (usually the tank) seems more down to luck then anything. Because it can also be your source of minor livesteal (Leeching Vines) this is highly problematic.

Suggestion: It's a rather simple one in theory, however I'm not sure how easy it is to implement. Make the targeting reliable.

4. Lotus Flower (Lotus Blossom)
I actually don't want this skill to change, however I still want to comment on it so that nobody can say I forgot about it. I deem this skill absolutely ill suited for a healer.

5. Nature’s Grasp (Bursting Vines & Nature’s Embrace)
Another skill I don’t have a problem with. I really love this skill in PvP, it’s just not suited for PvE healing.

6. Secluded Growth (Enchanted Forest & Healing Thicket)
Ults are not viable in PvE if they don’t buff, so this is not really a choice. But generally nothing wrong with this ultimate, it’s very good at what it does.

Suggestion: Should Secluded Growth be nerfed again for PvP reasons, please nerf the healing, not the cost. The fact that it can be the cheapest ultimate in the game is what makes it interesting and viable for some niche applications, like Master Architect builds.

7. Passives
To follow the theme Green Balance passives are very nice on paper as well if not for a few little problems.
- Accelerated Growth is a rather reliable source of major mending
- Nature’s Gift is a strong sustain passive, making Warden very interesting for roles that require high stamina sustain. (vAS Kiter for example)
- Emerald Moss gives more healing done, it’s nothing too crazy but why not.
- Maturation gives minor toughness, which isn’t too great and the fact that it doesn’t stack with Warhorn makes it kind of useless in raids.

The first problem is that all those passives only work with green balance skills and as many of them are problematic as pointed out above this weakens those passives a lot. However making the skills more useful would fix this problem.
Secondly Accelerated Growth and Emerald Moss scale with base values, making them very strong to begin with but scale up rather poorly on a proper healer build. This does not mean that they are bad or that Warden is easily outscaled, but that those passives give a healer far less power in a actual fight then you might think. So even though Wardens heals can look far superior in theory this barely changes anything for the class.

Suggestion: Make Emerald Moss scale up higher based upon all Warden skills, so it simply becomes a bit stronger while still keeping the original idea and opening up the bar setups for more creative placement of skills. This is however a very small issue as for the irrelevance of healing done.
Completely rework Maturation to give some Warden exclusive buff, as this is a thing this class seriously lacks. I think this buff could be something actually pretty strong, in order to make a Warden desirable for it’s group. Maybe keep the effect and turn it into a non named buff or change it completely into some other defensive or even damage buff.

Animal Companions:

Dive, Scorch and Swarm are not really relevant for healing except for maybe procing passives or increasing your own DPS, so I won’t comment on them.

1. Betty Netch (Blue Betty)
The Skill in itself is meh, the regen isn’t too much, the cleanse is unreliable and major sorcery on a healer is okay, but not really relevant. However the skill costs nothing and gives 12% more regen for just being slotted via the passives. So I would consider it worth taking and don’t have any issue with it’s functionality. The animation however is atrocious, it’s long and clunky.

Blue Betty equals a magicka regen of ~300, while for comparison Channeled Focus equals a magicka regen of ~440 (including it’s cost). Both don’t scale with percent multipliers as they don’t count as actual regen.

Suggestion: Make the animation a lot shorter and more reliable to cancel.

2. Falcon’s Swiftness (Deceptive Predator & Bird of Prey)
A speed buff that doesn’t fall off when casting can be more useful than you might think. Not really that relevant for PvE healing, but I still wanted to mention it as it can be quite nice in certain fights and for sure makes Warden a bit unique.

3. Feral Guardian (Eternal Guardian & Wild Guardian)
You can slot it for the passives, but since Flourish doesn’t stack this isn’t really viable.
I mention this because it could increase the flexibility in barsetups with some of the changes I suggest.

4. Passives
- Bond with Nature doesn’t do anything for a healer.
- Savage Beast can be interesting as ultigen is rather important. If you can fit a skill to proc it it’s nice.
- Flourish is very strong as fitting Betty Netch (or any other Animal Companion skill) on the frontbar is usually no problem.
- Advanced Species again doesn’t do anything.
- Apart from two of the passives pretty useful. As this is not a healer tree I can totally live with not everything being useful.

Suggestion: Changing Advanced Species to affect healing could be interesting, I’m however not sure on that one.

Winter’s Embrace:

I will skip over Impaling Shards, Arctic Wind and Frozen Gate as they are not relevant enough.

1. Frost Cloak (Expansive Frost Cloak & Ice Fortress)
I think this skill is heavily overrated. Major resistance buffs are nice, don’t get me wrong but they are not as strong as is often implied. A lot of builds also already have them and can’t exactly drop them either. Apart from that the skill is majorly flawed. It goes to only six people with no practical way to assure it hits the correct six or even yourself (this seems to get fixed with Summerset).

Suggestion: Frost Cloak should go to twelve people, at least in PvE. There would really be no issue with it and it would make having a Warden in group actually worth thinking about.

2. Crystallized Shield (Shimmering Shield)
Highly Situational but also very strong. Nothing to complain about here.

3. Sleet Storm (Northern Storm)
It can be a better Nova/Veil or a worse Nova/Veil, however Nova/Veil is barely used and so is this skill. The passive Magicka is neat though. Again nothing I would change here.

Note: Sleet Storm gives Major Protection, which is the same as Veil (NB) and not Major Maim like Nova (Templar). So you can actually stack Sleet Storm and Nova.

4. Passives:
- Glacial Presence can be interesting for applying minor maim, but this is usually not done by a healer.
- Frozen Armor does basically nothing, as it requires Winters Embrace abilities to be slotted.
- Icy Aura is a really great passive. Snares are everywhere and mobility is important for a healer.
- Piercing Cold just increases the damage done and not actually the spell damage. So it’s rather useless.

The Winter's Embrace passives do very little for a healer. It is basically the same problem as with the other Skilltrees. The passives are too specific to really be useful.

Suggestion:
I think changing Frozen Armor to a higher but fixed value that only requires one Skill to be slotted would make this passive actually worth it.

Conclusion:
I think with my suggested changes the Warden would become far more convenient to play, while also becoming strong enough in what it can give to a group to be worth thinking about.

I’m aware that I can’t know everything and might have suggested changes that negatively affect other parts of the game. This post is meant to start a discussion that will hopefully be beneficial to the Warden, so feel free to question my thoughts and give your own suggestions.
EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    First let me say in raw healing numbers wardens are number 1. What makes you think Templars are top dogs as you so put in healing? I mean this where true discussion starts.

    Healing Seed (Budding Seed) interesting skill. I was clearly designed as aid in using wardens without bol. Also seems to take bad habit healing springs spammers and ritual that use it as burst into an actual skill. Works effectiness in battlegrounds. Its nice to use on tanks for synergy or to far away.

    Some things are designed for pvp. Wardens make overwhelling Kings there. They still are powerful pve healers.


    Fungal Growth is interesting skill gives back regain Morrowind stole from us. It's got a nice range but really need position it well. Wardens are all about positioning and timing. This skill is great comb with combat pray.

    Living Vines (Leeching Vines & Living Trellis) targeting system and Nature’s Grasp (Bursting Vines & Nature’s Embrace) are interesting in pvp and odd in pvp. Need to actually target the Ally but Vines will only work if you aren't at full health. So yes room for better use experience here


    *Blue Betty was bugged a few months but now to my knowledge works fine. In fact come on now it gives you spell damage and thus more healing

    * Frost cloak is like another weakening glyph I don't see the issue. It also gives you resistances. This definitely asset in hm trials and in keeping people alive.

    * One of the passives increases health of allies by 10% in green balance. There's a few for resource management. There's major mending and ultimate gen too.

  • FakeFox
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    Tasear wrote: »
    First let me say in raw healing numbers wardens are number 1. What makes you think Templars are top dogs as you so put in healing? I mean this where true discussion starts.

    I agree, Warden has the most healing power, but that doesn't matter for most of raiding, as you overheal anyways. Templars are the number one, as you can see reflected in the leaderboards, for the reasons I have mentioned.


    Edited by FakeFox on April 28, 2018 10:23AM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    FakeFox wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    First let me say in raw healing numbers wardens are number 1. What makes you think Templars are top dogs as you so put in healing? I mean this where true discussion starts.

    I agree, Warden has the most healing power, but that doesn't matter for most of raiding, as you overheal anyways. Templars are the number one, as you can see reflected in the leaderboards, for the reasons I have mentioned.


    Is that your ownly reason? If so it's sad.
  • Princess_Ciri
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    Unfortunately ZOS' idea of balancing healing classes appears to be nerfing BoL repeatedly, as if this somehow will make things better. Zzzz.

    Maybe other people will disagree with me here but I think the best way to make Wardens equally viable as healers is to make the enchanted growth skill work the same as BoL, (including all of the sad nerfs ZOS has done to it) and take away the other buffs it gives. Then you get a reliable burst heal that does not require ridiculously difficult aiming, but you still have all of the other unique Warden abilities.

    I don't really enjoy healing on a Warden though, I think they are better as DDs. But I also think that the majority of end game healers have learned to heal on a Templar, are more comfortable playing as one, and so to make the change to Warden is much more unlikely.

    Lastly, raw healing numbers are literally useless to use in an argument about healing because you can heal end game content in ESO without even needing all champion points into blessed, or without needing to be an argonian. So if healing done actually mattered maybe that argument would have merit but healers use setups to boost dps, healing % done is pretty low on the priority list in almost every single trial and pve situation.

    GM and raid leader of Hot Girls Play DPS, the cutest guild EU
  • Aurielle
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    Unfortunately ZOS' idea of balancing healing classes appears to be nerfing BoL repeatedly, as if this somehow will make things better. Zzzz.

    Maybe other people will disagree with me here but I think the best way to make Wardens equally viable as healers is to make the enchanted growth skill work the same as BoL, (including all of the sad nerfs ZOS has done to it) and take away the other buffs it gives. Then you get a reliable burst heal that does not require ridiculously difficult aiming, but you still have all of the other unique Warden abilities.

    I don't really enjoy healing on a Warden though, I think they are better as DDs. But I also think that the majority of end game healers have learned to heal on a Templar, are more comfortable playing as one, and so to make the change to Warden is much more unlikely.

    Lastly, raw healing numbers are literally useless to use in an argument about healing because you can heal end game content in ESO without even needing all champion points into blessed, or without needing to be an argonian. So if healing done actually mattered maybe that argument would have merit but healers use setups to boost dps, healing % done is pretty low on the priority list in almost every single trial and pve situation.

    They already ARE equally viable, IMO, if said Warden healer knows what she or he is doing... BoL is overrated. Healing Ward is a more than sufficient smart burst heal, and it really isn’t that difficult to position your spores. You already have to position yourself well for Combat Prayer, so hitting people with the spores cone is not an issue.

    I used to main heal on a Templar when I played on PC. I’ve been main healing on my Warden since Morrowind and honestly don’t miss BoL. I only miss it on occasions when I’m dealing with idiot damage dealers who stand in stupid and run around like chickens with their heads cut off. I tend not to stick around in said groups/raids, because said damage dealers usually only manage 10k DPS a piece (if that), so it’s a moot point anyway.
  • FakeFox
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    Tasear wrote: »
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    First let me say in raw healing numbers wardens are number 1. What makes you think Templars are top dogs as you so put in healing? I mean this where true discussion starts.

    I agree, Warden has the most healing power, but that doesn't matter for most of raiding, as you overheal anyways. Templars are the number one, as you can see reflected in the leaderboards, for the reasons I have mentioned.


    Is that your ownly reason? If so it's sad.

    What do you mean? I have given multiple reasons. But let me explain it in a bit more detail. In my opinion and that of basically every healer I know Templars are very easy to play, due to being generally well rounded in terms of power, sustain and survivability and having very straight forward and reliable skills. Further more the Templar can get everything he needs out of very few skills. Your whole sustain and survivability is basically covered be a single and long lasting skill (Restoring Focus), leaving more time for buffing and supporting. The Templar has also very good offensive buff capabilities with minor resistance debuffs, minor sorcery and not the best but at least solid ultimate management. With Cleansing Ritual the you have additional healing tick, pushing up SPC uptimes. Shard in comparison to Orbs allows the tank more precise synergy timing, making it easier to keep high Alkosh uptimes. And lastly the Templar has the most effective rezz in the game.
    In conclusion this leads to a very well rounded class with basically no weakness that gives a high amount of group utility and is insanely time efficient in it's rotation.
    Edited by FakeFox on April 28, 2018 1:02PM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    i agree with a lot of what you have said here and have written a little about the subject here, the thread was about tanking but i think i put a lot about helaer role too.
    lets go over the healing line with an eye for tank or healer use.


    Fungal Growth and morphs are too expensive and heal too little to use on a tank, even on my healer i only use this skill for the 10% minor buffs, once every 20 seconds.

    Budding Seeds is bad on a tank because it takes 2 casts to use and it only lasts for 6 seconds, this is also why i don't use that skill on my warden healer. maybe if Budding Seeds lasted for 12 seconds, with the option to get the burst any time in that 12 seconds, otherwise it is useless on a healer too, takes too much to keep up. this skill is basically the healing ritual (the clap heal from temps line) that you can place the ground, and in my opinion it is just as bad. the only thing good about it is the synergy.

    Leeching Vines is the only skill from this line that i use on my tank, to provide resources from the passive and puts minor lifesteal on the boss most of the time, might actually try using blood altar here, because blood altar also provides a synergy for the group and puts minor lifesteal on everything in 28 meter range. for 33 or 47 seconds. that is a huge amount of time.

    Lotus Flower and morphs are crap heals too, once a second IF you are light weaving, which on a tank or heal you can't really do, no guarantee that the tank will get the heal, the only reason i run this on my stamden is because i am too cheap to use good pots for major savagery. inner light is 100% better if you are using this skill for the major prophecy, ie Lotus Blossom, because it gives you 7% max mag, like 3 -4k my healer and 2% regen for having it on my bar. passively. much better then having to reapply the buff every 20 seconds.

    Nature's Grasp and morphs are useless for a healer because you have to aim them and they only heal one or 2 targets, one of those being you , lol, 100% useless on a tank.

    Secluded Grove and morphs are a noob trap, you really ought never to need that much healing from a ulti, you need to be using warhorn.


    in conclusion, maybe one skill from this line is useful to me as a tank, the rest fall short. even on my full time healer, i only use one of them and that is not even for the heal itself, it is for the buff it provides my team. i have healed and tanked all the four man dungoens in the game on my warden as a tank and healer and beat them as a dps on my bow/bow stamden, you are greatly exaggerating the usefulness of the skill in this line.


    i have since actually started to use bursting vines as my burst heal, it is a lot of fun but ward ally would be my burst heal if i was running anything serious. i have also started to use lotus blossom on my warden, to have the major prophesy buff on both bars, as i do not run pots that give it to me, lost about 2.7k mag in the process.


    my warden healers front bar went from

    inner light, ward ally, netch, springs, combat prayer, northern storm

    to

    lotus blossom, bursting vines, mutagen, springs, combat prayer, northern storm

    so that is something.

    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on April 28, 2018 1:35PM
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