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The Markarth DLC and Update 28 base game patch are now available to test on the PTS! Read the full patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts/
Zos you guys really need to start checking people twitch streams..
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Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ITT: You all need a safe space.Twitch Immensely overrated, Mockery. Waste of time and energy. Used Twitch for couple of hours and Account deletition soon followed. Discord&Twitch Modern plague , In particular when you are "forced" to stream or join discord!
Ooooh! Look a new guild member! You must stream and chat on discord! Negative. I do what I love.
Once I was within the random guild, In GAME chat desolate. Why would anyone want to join Discord or Twitch. Dear Ysmir..Pfft
It really isn't that serious. Discord has practical uses, and Twitch is just a form of entertainment. Nothing more.
PS4-NA is really going down the drain in regards to overall negativity. Everything from: Account-sharing, botting, buying accounts, buying gold, buying RP sex, exploiting/cheating, screaming racism and other profanity in area chat and or zone chat, selling accounts, selling gold, selling RP sex services, selling skins/achievements, etc. occurs on a daily basis. Just spend a bit of time in either Craglorn and or Grahtwood, and see just for yourself what goes on. And slowly, it’s beginning to spread to Auridon (but usually only at nights and weekends).
It also doesn’t help that ZOS appears to be extremely light-handed when it comes to dealing with these things either. Remember the people who had the racist rally in Craglorn, that supposedly made news all over these forums and Reddit? They’re all unbanned, and have been unbanned for months now. And get this. They regularly boast about being unbanned, and how they have ZOS scared of them. Don’t believe me? Again, just spend a bit of time observing for yourself. Check the leaderboards, and just wander around the cities. You’ll be amazed at some of the things you’ll see.
@ZOS_GinaBruno I said it before, and I’ll happily say it again. Unless you all at ZOS start really cracking down on the negativity that’s breeding in this game, things are going to become dramatically worse as the months go by. As is the forums are beginning to become satires with toxicity, and people cyber-bullying and flaming others. And in-game, it’s starting to become a mess. I really would start taking aim at these problems, and dissolving them promptly. That’s assuming you all at ZOS care about this game that is.Edited by Ch4mpTW on April 14, 2018 1:59PM -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To be honest there was zero need to bring this drama to the forum.
Issue is in Twitch, complain to Twitch, if its warranted they will act.
If its a named streamer you want ZOS to be aware of as its bad for their brand to be linked, then contact them where you can name.
No need for a drama thread to boil over.
Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus - VR16 (810CP) Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus - Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus - Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting for : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Luna Wolves
Small Scale [PvP] : Random Reds
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus - L42 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets - CP160+ Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Then don't watch it. I don't watch streams that play rap music or with foul language, but you don't see me asking ZOS to shut those streamers down. -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xilfxlegion wrote: »if you dont like it dont watch it. you cant ban everything YOU dont like.
Very Well Said.
and i would like to add that Freedom of Speech does and should exist on peoples personal stream that they created for them and their friends.
people are allowed to have their own viewpoints and beliefs of religion and freedom to think and believe what ever they want and should not be hunted down and damaged simply for their beliefs!
if they believe or think a certain way you don't like then go somewhere else that Does have people who think Your way.best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.
worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor. -
Soul_Marrow✭✭✭I think we should ban everyone who tries to police language. You are the ones who give these words the power they hold in the 1st place. You don't take away the power of a word by telling everyone it's so powerful that they are no longer allowed to say it. Quit being beta.Edited by Soul_Marrow on April 14, 2018 3:39PM
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ZOS_EdwardCommunity RepHey @mmolegends44,
Our rules are very clear when it comes to Hate Speech like you are describing.Hate Speech: We take the use of hate speech very seriously in the official ESO community, and have a zero tolerance policy. Our definition of hate speech is prejudice or hateful comments, slurs, or statements that promote violence or intolerance toward others because of the following:- Race
- Creed
- Color
- National Origin
- Gender
- Age
- Disability
- Sexual Orientation
- Lifestyle
- Any other personally identifying factors
Anything that happens like this in-game we'll be happy to handle via the report options.
Since this is happening in a Twitch stream and not in-game, you would report it to Twitch and not us as we have no purview over their platform.
Edited by ZOS_Edward on April 14, 2018 4:22PM -
mmolegends44✭✭✭@ZOS_Edward they are playing your game inside cyrodil saying it on a livestream whether they streamed it or not they got caught saying it and I am pretty sure that group did not know they was on a livestream saying those words. -
mmolegends44✭✭✭@ZOS_Edward twitch has it’s own platform I get that but it is both of elder scroll and twitch platforms that need to do something and not just twitch.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mmolegends44 wrote: »ZOS_Edward they are playing your game inside cyrodil saying it on a livestream whether they streamed it or not they got caught saying it and I am pretty sure that group did not know they was on a livestream saying those words.
Saying it "in-game" implies things like the in-game chat, as opposed to playing the game while livestreaming on Twitch.
Saying in ZOS' chat = ZOS's problem.
Saying it on a Twitch livestream (while playing ESO) = Twitch's problemEdited by VaranisArano on April 14, 2018 4:46PM -
mmolegends44✭✭✭@VaranisArano would they be able to stream on twitch without them playing eso? no they saying it in game on the microphone it’s common sense really
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mmolegends44 wrote: »VaranisArano would they be able to stream on twitch without them playing eso? no they saying it in game on the microphone it’s common sense really
Question: Are they saying this over a voice chat provided by ZOS in-game? A text chat provided by ZOS in game?
if yes, then ZOS_Edward told you to report it using the in-game Report options. ZOS'll deal with it then.
If no, and they are using outside voice comms, then they aren't using the in-game features provided by ZOS to say that stuff, and you need to talk to Twitch about their behavior in a livestream.
At least, that's the common sense interpretation that I'm coming up with, since you were none too clear about what medium these streamer were using aside from you heard them through Twitch. -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Remember console has voice chat built in to the game so it would be said in game then relayed onto twitch via the stream from the PS4 to Twitch.
OP, what ZOS needs to police better is what goes on in voice and text chat on PS4.
Ending up on Twitch just makes it worse.Edited by TequilaFire on April 14, 2018 4:59PMLupis Mortis EP Magplar Healer
Duke of Blood EP Stamplar DPS
Tequilafire EP StamDK Tank
Nick Dagger DC Stamsorc DPS
Aphotic Delirium DC Magplar Healer
Roll Your Bones DC Stamcro DPS
Blueblade DC Stamblade DPS
Omari DC Stamden DPS
PSN: Tequilafire
PC: @Tequilafire -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Remember console has voice chat built in to the game so it would be said in game then relayed onto twitch via the stream from the PS4 to Twitch.
Then if that's happening, seems like ZOS_Edward says to use the in-game report options as well. at least, that's my interpretation. -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah it gets confusing as we have the ability to send our live game sessions to various media outlets like Twitch.Lupis Mortis EP Magplar Healer
Duke of Blood EP Stamplar DPS
Tequilafire EP StamDK Tank
Nick Dagger DC Stamsorc DPS
Aphotic Delirium DC Magplar Healer
Roll Your Bones DC Stamcro DPS
Blueblade DC Stamblade DPS
Omari DC Stamden DPS
PSN: Tequilafire
PC: @Tequilafire -
neverwalk✭✭✭✭i watch only pc version of ESO on twitch, as i play ESO on pc. I knew ps4 and xbox 1 were going to screw-up ESO in the long run. ESO was to be PC only and then came along the Nex-gen consoles saying we can run your game on our new consoles and then ESO lost attention to to building a beautifil awesome PC only game. -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The notion of "free speech" in a venue provided by a private company like ZOS or Twitch in constrained by their TOS and Code of Conduct. So if someone is saying things in violation of the TOS or Code of Conduct, they are not guaranteed the right to say that in that venue and can (should) receive consequences for violating the rules they agreed to. -
DirkRavenclaw✭✭✭✭Twitch Immensely overrated, Mockery. Waste of time and energy. Used Twitch for couple of hours and Account deletition soon followed. Discord&Twitch Modern plague , In particular when you are "forced" to stream or join discord!
Ooooh! Look a new guild member! You must stream and chat on discord! Negative. I do what I love.
Once I was within the random guild, In GAME chat desolate. Why would anyone want to join Discord or Twitch. Dear Ysmir..Pfft
Well, without using a voicechatservice like discord, even if you dont use a mic(I dont have a mic) can help a lot in Trials, i wouldnt run a vet trial, for example, that can last several hours, without someone coordinating us over DiscordCouncil Member of AtWritsEnd, Member of LoneWolfeHelp, Donor of GhostSeaTradingCO., Factor of EastEmpireTradingCO.,HonourGuard of ´DominionImperialGuard(DIG/PVP)
Master Crafter including Jewelry, i craft for Mats and Donation, always happy to help, if Im not in the Middle of PVP, i play since around 14 Months -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_Edward wrote: »Hey @mmolegends44,
Our rules are very clear when it comes to Hate Speech like you are describing.Hate Speech: We take the use of hate speech very seriously in the official ESO community, and have a zero tolerance policy. Our definition of hate speech is prejudice or hateful comments, slurs, or statements that promote violence or intolerance toward others because of the following:- Race
- Creed
- Color
- National Origin
- Gender
- Age
- Disability
- Sexual Orientation
- Lifestyle
- Any other personally identifying factors
Anything that happens like this in-game we'll be happy to handle via the report options.
Since this is happening in a Twitch stream and not in-game, you would report it to Twitch and not us as we have no purview over their platform.
"Since this is happening in a Twitch stream and not in-game, you would report it to Twitch and not us as we have no purview over their platform."
Kinda answers it all don't it? -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The notion of "free speech" in a venue provided by a private company like ZOS or Twitch in constrained by their TOS and Code of Conduct. So if someone is saying things in violation of the TOS or Code of Conduct, they are not guaranteed the right to say that in that venue and can (should) receive consequences for violating the rules they agreed to.
I'm not so sure this sort of view is a good one for the world. I understand the point but it undermines the first amendment on what is decidedly a public forum. I'm also not sure that despite the TOS it is good for society to have everyone hide in their little bubbles.veloSylraptor wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »ITT: You all need a safe space.Twitch Immensely overrated, Mockery. Waste of time and energy. Used Twitch for couple of hours and Account deletition soon followed. Discord&Twitch Modern plague , In particular when you are "forced" to stream or join discord!
Ooooh! Look a new guild member! You must stream and chat on discord! Negative. I do what I love.
Once I was within the random guild, In GAME chat desolate. Why would anyone want to join Discord or Twitch. Dear Ysmir..Pfft
It really isn't that serious. Discord has practical uses, and Twitch is just a form of entertainment. Nothing more.
Downplaying racism. Classic.
Is it? I don't really think its our jobs to all become the thought police so we can violate rude people's 1st amendment rights. Would it be better if people didn't talk this way? Surely. Do you think you're going to convince offensive people otherwise by controlling them this way? Probably not. I would argue that by using this sort of passive-aggressive pushy behavior you are likely to harden a position which was not fully actualized. This notion of safe spaces is dangerous as far as I see it. Many problems get sorted out when people talk, sometimes yell. I held my tongue on this topic for a while here but I see a dangerous trend in everyone wanting to enlist big brother to beat someone over the head with a stick (be it government or large companies) because they disagree with certain speech. North Korea and Communist China are good places for you to live if you like this kind of system. It may be unsightly sometimes but free speech has a value. Louis Farrakhan has the same right to talk as David Duke. They're both highly offensive but even in their offensiveness I think they serve as lightning rods that make most people think 'woah' I don't want to be like that. I'm also going to point out that racism is not the worst thing a person be guilty of. I've dealt with quite a lot of racism in my own day and there is a difference between the racists who simply would rather not associate with you and the sort who are willing to harm you. I doubt many of you have had bricks thrown at you or that you have been shot at simply for being who you are. I have. If you have as well I am sorry to hear that. I'm more worried about bricks, fists, knives, pitchforks and bullets than I am about a few people being derogatory. My point is simply this: If you actually care about changing the world, you could do a lot more by giving these people thought provoking reasons why they are wrong than by exacerbating their anger. I personally believe this modern strategy of silencing people you disagree with is dangerous and has the potential for a lot of creeping from its original purpose. Human nature is what it is and the thought police have existed many times before through the ages. The difference we have now is technology has the potential to make things so much worse. I would just like to point out the danger of what this looks like in the form of China's social credit system. No one is perfect. A system like this will attempt to iron out everyone's flaws with an iron thumb. This will create a dishonest system where people will not improve, they will simply become vicious and silent in their approach. (By the way, if you think China is a wonderful free nation you are woefully wrong. China is responsible for the murder of millions and a vicious hunt of all religious groups not limited to but most specifically the Falun Gong, Christians, and Muslims.). What I'm talking about is actual dangerous speech that China would love to silence.
Sometimes freedom is messy but I would hope people might understand why it has value. You know the individuals who have their offensive channel (whatever it is). There are two options before you in a free society: Engage them in conversation, or freely associate somewhere else. This is my recommendation.
No one's policing anyone's thoughts, only their actions in violation of the terms of service. There is no first amendment right in a privately owned venue, there is only the terms of service.
When Privately owned venues tout themselves as public platforms though I would suggest things get a bit dodgy. There are some strange instances right now on major platforms such as YouTube, Facebook, etc where highly highly offensive speech seems to squeak right through because either the company was paid off as part of its major advertisement or simply doesn't mind having disgusting images that will show up for little children who want to see Disney cartoons. (I'm aware of this as I have a baby sister from my father's second marriage). This is a real problem and there is some very disgusting content that SHOULD be removed from YouTube. Meanwhile there is simultaneously political speech being squashed right now (left and right) as well as comedic speech and other forms of speech simply because some vitriolic group can't stand that someone would think a certain way differently from them. We're not even talking about racism here but policy differences in opinion on how to make a country/world a better place. As a person who loves history I'm personally aware of multitudes of interesting youtubers who are also historians who have been shut down or demonetized for simply talking about historical facts or showing what life was like (I'm aware of one guy who has been demonetized and all he does is historical cooking of all things, and I can't understand how he would be considered offensive). The point I'm making is that I do not think what you're requesting is a very good idea, and I am trying to suggest to you that these kinds of actions do not result in what you want. Ultimately, you won't get what you're asking for, and if this sort of thing continues I believe we're going to all be living in a 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Animal Farm, Brave New World type of scenario. Freedom is a delicate thing. This is a video game so I don't want to get caught in the weeds on these topics. I agree with the sentiment that I don't want to hear the kinds of conversations being complained about. I personally engage these types of conversations at times, but I also reserve the right to avoid them as well when I'm just trying to enjoy my game. In the case of a Twitch stream I think that its really easy to down-vote them or whatever it is you do on a Twitch stream and go look at something else.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more> -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭mmolegends44 wrote: »@Waffennacht that makes no sense what so ever.
Ever heard of the word jurisdiction?
Next time direct your concerns to the appropriate party. -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_Edward wrote: »Hey @mmolegends44,
Our rules are very clear when it comes to Hate Speech like you are describing.Hate Speech: We take the use of hate speech very seriously in the official ESO community, and have a zero tolerance policy. Our definition of hate speech is prejudice or hateful comments, slurs, or statements that promote violence or intolerance toward others because of the following:- Race
- Creed
- Color
- National Origin
- Gender
- Age
- Disability
- Sexual Orientation
- Lifestyle
- Any other personally identifying factors
Anything that happens like this in-game we'll be happy to handle via the report options.
Since this is happening in a Twitch stream and not in-game, you would report it to Twitch and not us as we have no purview over their platform.
When a person/persons are so blatantly racist in a stream, I'm sure that they've probably been doing it in chat as well.
So a review of their account chat log would be in order to see if their violation of twitch's TOS is just the most visible side of it.
Olava Stone Fist Nord Templar (EP)
Pepper Moonchild Dunmer MagDK (AD)
Rincewind Redguard Stam Sorc (AD)
General Jar Jar Binks Altmer Sorc (AD)
Lord Vetinari Stamblade (DC)Stupid men are often capable of things the clever would not dare to contemplate...
Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »ITT: You all need a safe space.Twitch Immensely overrated, Mockery. Waste of time and energy. Used Twitch for couple of hours and Account deletition soon followed. Discord&Twitch Modern plague , In particular when you are "forced" to stream or join discord!
Ooooh! Look a new guild member! You must stream and chat on discord! Negative. I do what I love.
Once I was within the random guild, In GAME chat desolate. Why would anyone want to join Discord or Twitch. Dear Ysmir..Pfft
It really isn't that serious. Discord has practical uses, and Twitch is just a form of entertainment. Nothing more.
Downplaying racism. Classic.
Is it? I don't really think its our jobs to all become the thought police so we can violate rude people's 1st amendment rights. Would it be better if people didn't talk this way? Surely. Do you think you're going to convince offensive people otherwise by controlling them this way? Probably not. I would argue that by using this sort of passive-aggressive pushy behavior you are likely to harden a position which was not fully actualized. This notion of safe spaces is dangerous as far as I see it. Many problems get sorted out when people talk, sometimes yell. I held my tongue on this topic for a while here but I see a dangerous trend in everyone wanting to enlist big brother to beat someone over the head with a stick (be it government or large companies) because they disagree with certain speech. North Korea and Communist China are good places for you to live if you like this kind of system. It may be unsightly sometimes but free speech has a value. Louis Farrakhan has the same right to talk as David Duke. They're both highly offensive but even in their offensiveness I think they serve as lightning rods that make most people think 'woah' I don't want to be like that. I'm also going to point out that racism is not the worst thing a person be guilty of. I've dealt with quite a lot of racism in my own day and there is a difference between the racists who simply would rather not associate with you and the sort who are willing to harm you. I doubt many of you have had bricks thrown at you or that you have been shot at simply for being who you are. I have. If you have as well I am sorry to hear that. I'm more worried about bricks, fists, knives, pitchforks and bullets than I am about a few people being derogatory. My point is simply this: If you actually care about changing the world, you could do a lot more by giving these people thought provoking reasons why they are wrong than by exacerbating their anger. I personally believe this modern strategy of silencing people you disagree with is dangerous and has the potential for a lot of creeping from its original purpose. Human nature is what it is and the thought police have existed many times before through the ages. The difference we have now is technology has the potential to make things so much worse. I would just like to point out the danger of what this looks like in the form of China's social credit system. No one is perfect. A system like this will attempt to iron out everyone's flaws with an iron thumb. This will create a dishonest system where people will not improve, they will simply become vicious and silent in their approach. (By the way, if you think China is a wonderful free nation you are woefully wrong. China is responsible for the murder of millions and a vicious hunt of all religious groups not limited to but most specifically the Falun Gong, Christians, and Muslims.). What I'm talking about is actual dangerous speech that China would love to silence.
Sometimes freedom is messy but I would hope people might understand why it has value. You know the individuals who have their offensive channel (whatever it is). There are two options before you in a free society: Engage them in conversation, or freely associate somewhere else. This is my recommendation.
You'd have merit if this was a venue that was public. Say out in the real world. A street corner perhaps, or even a park. The fact that they are saying this through a privately owned property gives who ever owns that property the right to stifle it if they choose so. So yes you can argue free speech all you want. Free speech doesn't exist in areas that are privately owned, like servers, data centers, ect. You could even argue that a restaurant owner could tell you to leave over the things you are saying since it's also considered private property. And if they decided to tell you to leave the property under such circumstances it's well within their rights to do so by law.
My response is philosophical more than legal. As a culture people are becoming more and more comfortable with shutting one another down, closing off their livelihood, and squashing any dissenting thought that they run the risk of corrupting this society. You are presenting a view of the law. I understand the point and in many ways I agree with it. I think it becomes a gray area when you tout yourself as a public open platform for speech and then you squash every little thing that becomes mildly offensive. Are you aware that fishing videos have been demonetized because animal rights groups think fishermen are committing heinous acts by cleaning a fish that will be eaten? I would like to point out that nothing else was the reason for them being shut down other than 'meat is murder'. There are other points of view such as, 'We have incisors for a reason'. In my view if cleaning a fish is such a heinous act then at least 95% of Americans, Europeans, Aussies, and everyone else who practically plays on this game is offensive and should be silenced. These things can go too far. When hyper-offensive truly disgusting material can float around freely on the internet even on these public platforms and something which is mildly offensive like a fish cleaning gets shut down we have a problem. In short, Yes, I believe this is going to come to a head legally and when it does it has the danger of fundamentally changing our society in bad ways. This is why I am pressing the issue and imploring people to think differently. I personally find it harmful and dangerous to ourselves to try and abridge speech in this way.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more> -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭What people say tells you a lot about them. And something said can never be unsaid. Think on that when you choose who to associate with and before you decide that some words are too harmful to be allowed to be spoken. I welcome people to speak their minds because then I have to spend less time figuring out if I want to associate with them or not.
I don't like hearing some of the things I hear. But I am always evaluating who is worthy of my time and consideration and there are other ways to get back at actual bigots. And the burning need to avoid offending others is not anywhere near as important to an intelligent society as the right to unfettered discourse. In the West that is more than merely our right - it is our legacy and heritage to a certain degree. I feel that I was raised to be a proper adult but I look around and a lot of my contemporaries behave like spoiled, thin-skinned, indolent children. You can change people's hearts and minds or you can suppress/brainwash your way to utopia.
In case you didn't catch it, you actually can't brainwash your way to anything productively, especially not something complicated like an entire society of people.
PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP -
veloSylraptor✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »The notion of "free speech" in a venue provided by a private company like ZOS or Twitch in constrained by their TOS and Code of Conduct. So if someone is saying things in violation of the TOS or Code of Conduct, they are not guaranteed the right to say that in that venue and can (should) receive consequences for violating the rules they agreed to.
I'm not so sure this sort of view is a good one for the world. I understand the point but it undermines the first amendment on what is decidedly a public forum. I'm also not sure that despite the TOS it is good for society to have everyone hide in their little bubbles.veloSylraptor wrote: »dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »ITT: You all need a safe space.Twitch Immensely overrated, Mockery. Waste of time and energy. Used Twitch for couple of hours and Account deletition soon followed. Discord&Twitch Modern plague , In particular when you are "forced" to stream or join discord!
Ooooh! Look a new guild member! You must stream and chat on discord! Negative. I do what I love.
Once I was within the random guild, In GAME chat desolate. Why would anyone want to join Discord or Twitch. Dear Ysmir..Pfft
It really isn't that serious. Discord has practical uses, and Twitch is just a form of entertainment. Nothing more.
Downplaying racism. Classic.
Is it? I don't really think its our jobs to all become the thought police so we can violate rude people's 1st amendment rights. Would it be better if people didn't talk this way? Surely. Do you think you're going to convince offensive people otherwise by controlling them this way? Probably not. I would argue that by using this sort of passive-aggressive pushy behavior you are likely to harden a position which was not fully actualized. This notion of safe spaces is dangerous as far as I see it. Many problems get sorted out when people talk, sometimes yell. I held my tongue on this topic for a while here but I see a dangerous trend in everyone wanting to enlist big brother to beat someone over the head with a stick (be it government or large companies) because they disagree with certain speech. North Korea and Communist China are good places for you to live if you like this kind of system. It may be unsightly sometimes but free speech has a value. Louis Farrakhan has the same right to talk as David Duke. They're both highly offensive but even in their offensiveness I think they serve as lightning rods that make most people think 'woah' I don't want to be like that. I'm also going to point out that racism is not the worst thing a person be guilty of. I've dealt with quite a lot of racism in my own day and there is a difference between the racists who simply would rather not associate with you and the sort who are willing to harm you. I doubt many of you have had bricks thrown at you or that you have been shot at simply for being who you are. I have. If you have as well I am sorry to hear that. I'm more worried about bricks, fists, knives, pitchforks and bullets than I am about a few people being derogatory. My point is simply this: If you actually care about changing the world, you could do a lot more by giving these people thought provoking reasons why they are wrong than by exacerbating their anger. I personally believe this modern strategy of silencing people you disagree with is dangerous and has the potential for a lot of creeping from its original purpose. Human nature is what it is and the thought police have existed many times before through the ages. The difference we have now is technology has the potential to make things so much worse. I would just like to point out the danger of what this looks like in the form of China's social credit system. No one is perfect. A system like this will attempt to iron out everyone's flaws with an iron thumb. This will create a dishonest system where people will not improve, they will simply become vicious and silent in their approach. (By the way, if you think China is a wonderful free nation you are woefully wrong. China is responsible for the murder of millions and a vicious hunt of all religious groups not limited to but most specifically the Falun Gong, Christians, and Muslims.). What I'm talking about is actual dangerous speech that China would love to silence.
Sometimes freedom is messy but I would hope people might understand why it has value. You know the individuals who have their offensive channel (whatever it is). There are two options before you in a free society: Engage them in conversation, or freely associate somewhere else. This is my recommendation.
No one's policing anyone's thoughts, only their actions in violation of the terms of service. There is no first amendment right in a privately owned venue, there is only the terms of service.
When Privately owned venues tout themselves as public platforms though I would suggest things get a bit dodgy. There are some strange instances right now on major platforms such as YouTube, Facebook, etc where highly highly offensive speech seems to squeak right through because either the company was paid off as part of its major advertisement or simply doesn't mind having disgusting images that will show up for little children who want to see Disney cartoons. (I'm aware of this as I have a baby sister from my father's second marriage). This is a real problem and there is some very disgusting content that SHOULD be removed from YouTube. Meanwhile there is simultaneously political speech being squashed right now (left and right) as well as comedic speech and other forms of speech simply because some vitriolic group can't stand that someone would think a certain way differently from them. We're not even talking about racism here but policy differences in opinion on how to make a country/world a better place. As a person who loves history I'm personally aware of multitudes of interesting youtubers who are also historians who have been shut down or demonetized for simply talking about historical facts or showing what life was like (I'm aware of one guy who has been demonetized and all he does is historical cooking of all things, and I can't understand how he would be considered offensive). The point I'm making is that I do not think what you're requesting is a very good idea, and I am trying to suggest to you that these kinds of actions do not result in what you want. Ultimately, you won't get what you're asking for, and if this sort of thing continues I believe we're going to all be living in a 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Animal Farm, Brave New World type of scenario. Freedom is a delicate thing. This is a video game so I don't want to get caught in the weeds on these topics. I agree with the sentiment that I don't want to hear the kinds of conversations being complained about. I personally engage these types of conversations at times, but I also reserve the right to avoid them as well when I'm just trying to enjoy my game. In the case of a Twitch stream I think that its really easy to down-vote them or whatever it is you do on a Twitch stream and go look at something else.
It really doesn't matter, privately owned venues are privately owned venues. The owners of those venues can enforce whatever limitation on speech they so choose. Facebook can enforce their rules however they want. However, we are given procedures by ZOS to report violations of those rules, and in this thread, we are pointing out that Twitch has jurisdiction to enforce their own rules on their platform. Thus: report it to Twitch. I don't see anything wrong with helping out ZOS and Twitch by reporting on people violating their rules.
The discussions you are concerned about are not the subject of discussion here. As per ZOS' Community Rules, this is not the place for such discussion. -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »What people say tells you a lot about them. And something said can never be unsaid.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kyle.wilson wrote: »ZOS_Edward wrote: »Hey @mmolegends44,
Our rules are very clear when it comes to Hate Speech like you are describing.Hate Speech: We take the use of hate speech very seriously in the official ESO community, and have a zero tolerance policy. Our definition of hate speech is prejudice or hateful comments, slurs, or statements that promote violence or intolerance toward others because of the following:- Race
- Creed
- Color
- National Origin
- Gender
- Age
- Disability
- Sexual Orientation
- Lifestyle
- Any other personally identifying factors
Anything that happens like this in-game we'll be happy to handle via the report options.
Since this is happening in a Twitch stream and not in-game, you would report it to Twitch and not us as we have no purview over their platform.
When a person/persons are so blatantly racist in a stream, I'm sure that they've probably been doing it in chat as well.
So a review of their account chat log would be in order to see if their violation of twitch's TOS is just the most visible side of it.
They wouldn't need to do any reviews if such actions had taken place and someone reported them.
It's not up to ZoS to take the time and resources to actively "investigate" people from actions occuring on a different medium.
I wouldn't want them spending that kind of time and money.
Simple, if they do something in-game, report it, if you don't - don't expect anything to happen. And anything occuring not in-game will result in 0 action taken by ZoS.
This discussion has been closed.