Mmorpg. Difficulty and social interaction

Priyasekarssk · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Let's see the progress of the game.
Craglorn had group activities in a nice open world environment in which only you could get nirn items/mats. Obsolete. Turned into yet another themepark for antisocial/immersed ppl.

IC. The only place you could gather top gear materials while playing against enemies. Dont want to gather? Go sell gold mats and buy base mats instead.
What happened to IC? V160 mats became available to every area.
IC turn into yet another themepark.
However empty, people still complain about being killed by players in a PvP zone. Mind you IC is empty. Completely empty.

Orsinium. Nice WB that require groups (no real rewards tho)
The overland however is still an easy themepark.
What else... the top weapons at the time could be farmed solo. In an mmorpg....
Thieves Guild. Themepark.
Dark Brotherhood. Themepark.
Morrowind. Themepark.
Clockwork. Finally a nice addition with a Trial that offers serious rewards. Still a themepark tho.

Why is it so easy in an mmorpg to faceroll every map in the game, solo?
Why mmorpg players are forced to such a carebear environment for antisocial people that should really be playing a single player game?

There is no way I can pursuade my guild to join again in this game.
They tell me: PvE is so easy and isolated from the community.
PvP is sooooo optional that it doesn't provide a sense of accomplishment.

So Zos.
Since you have provided a full map (plus 2 dimentions outside of the map [Clockwork/Soul Harbor]) for all those players that want to have a good time exploring, can you provide a small slice of land with challenging open world content for MMORPG players?

Thank you

PS. PVP Also some guild vs guild features.
AvAvA offer nothing to people that want to form a 50-100 head clan and compete against others.
AvAvA is all about forming a group of 24 and farming AP. Switching sides and the rest.
Groups of 24(Raids.. not guilds...) are too small to be considered a community. A community with common goals and loyalty to each other

PS2. PvE. I am getting really bored jumping from instance to instance to complete dungeons from Mournhold. It feels like Crash Bandecot farming trophies.
I want challenging open world PvE with serious rewards.

PS3. Dueling took sooooo long to happen.

Let players open PvP toggle and fight others that have chosen to open PvP tag.
Those that dont open PvP toggle cannot be attacked or attack.

Add value to your game.
It is an mmorpg. Not a single player

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Goshua wrote: »

when were vet mats only available via IC?

Rubedo was only available with TV stones in IC/Sewers.
Glorious fights.

The People would sell them in guild traders. PvPrs had a great reason to fight.
PvErs could buy them from guild traders.

Then some people started comaining that they were forced to PvP to get those mats, which was false.

Next thing you know IC was empty

IC was empty. Its already discussed in multiple forums. Because it lopsidedly favors experienced players. It has no protection for new bies and primary targets . If any changes to mechanics to bring new players to IC, experienced noobs will come and comment its PVP blah blah. If they were in other PVP games, they know they will crushed. These noobs always pawn on low bies and have no guts to go against imperial city bosses. ZOs written off PVP. No buyers for another imperial City.

Wifeaggro13 · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Let's see the progress of the game.
Craglorn had group activities in a nice open world environment in which only you could get nirn items/mats. Obsolete. Turned into yet another themepark for antisocial/immersed ppl.

IC. The only place you could gather top gear materials while playing against enemies. Dont want to gather? Go sell gold mats and buy base mats instead.
What happened to IC? V160 mats became available to every area.
IC turn into yet another themepark.
However empty, people still complain about being killed by players in a PvP zone. Mind you IC is empty. Completely empty.

Orsinium. Nice WB that require groups (no real rewards tho)
The overland however is still an easy themepark.
What else... the top weapons at the time could be farmed solo. In an mmorpg....
Thieves Guild. Themepark.
Dark Brotherhood. Themepark.
Morrowind. Themepark.
Clockwork. Finally a nice addition with a Trial that offers serious rewards. Still a themepark tho.

Why is it so easy in an mmorpg to faceroll every map in the game, solo?
Why mmorpg players are forced to such a carebear environment for antisocial people that should really be playing a single player game?

There is no way I can pursuade my guild to join again in this game.
They tell me: PvE is so easy and isolated from the community.
PvP is sooooo optional that it doesn't provide a sense of accomplishment.

So Zos.
Since you have provided a full map (plus 2 dimentions outside of the map [Clockwork/Soul Harbor]) for all those players that want to have a good time exploring, can you provide a small slice of land with challenging open world content for MMORPG players?

Thank you

PS. PVP Also some guild vs guild features.
AvAvA offer nothing to people that want to form a 50-100 head clan and compete against others.
AvAvA is all about forming a group of 24 and farming AP. Switching sides and the rest.
Groups of 24(Raids.. not guilds...) are too small to be considered a community. A community with common goals and loyalty to each other

PS2. PvE. I am getting really bored jumping from instance to instance to complete dungeons from Mournhold. It feels like Crash Bandecot farming trophies.
I want challenging open world PvE with serious rewards.

PS3. Dueling took sooooo long to happen.

Let players open PvP toggle and fight others that have chosen to open PvP tag.
Those that dont open PvP toggle cannot be attacked or attack.

Add value to your game.
It is an mmorpg. Not a single player

your right but it wont happen ZOS has their cow to milk and her name is Churn. as long as they keep suckering new solo casuals in sell them their crowns and slap their rumps as they hit the exit sign . when Paul sage and Konkle left the team the vision for a true MMO went with them. Matt wants an online RPG with one diffculty rating to they wont have to fix the balance issues. The game doe not have one launch community still in game that is active. by year 3 i had purged my friends list so many times due to inactivity and left so many guilds for the same reason. ZOS claims 10 mil accounts, ive no clue how many sales because forbes says its about 3 milion so they had 7 mil trials. and between all platforms id be shocked if they have 500 k actives.

JKorr · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Personally i like that i can choose to socialize or not. If i want nonstop socialization i will go out. If i want controlled doses of socialization where i can make you go away when you annoy me, i play a mmo. I like that about mmos.... i can socialize and dont have to pretend that you arent getting under my skin because we are in the same group of people, i can just make you go away.

I dont think you understand what it is that is said on this topic.
Or maybe you want to say "I like facerolling stuff". But you dont.

Or maybe some of the "social" people make the experience of grouping to do content so toxic and unpleasant that people are really put off of even attempting the content again. How many threads have you seen here that suggest flat out not allowing players who don't have 9 billion cp points to access content? Or the ones where if someone can't do elebenty zillion dps they shouldn't even be allowed to think about joining a group? The gear police, who want to dictate what sets *must* be used if you want to join their group don't exactly throw out the welcome mat either.

If I wouldn't socialize with someone in RL/person, I see no reason to put up with them in a game I'm playing for fun and enjoyment. Trying to force me to do so will make me walk away and find a game that doesn't.

There are still places where my characters get killed. I know I'm not an uberleet min/maxer/munchkin, so I haven't gotten the bestest gear and tweaked my attributes and skills to get that last .000001% damage out of my build. While I can now solo a lot of the content, "face-rolling" everything is so not happening. I did, however, finally finish the group dungeons for the EP the other night. With one other guildie instead of a group. We're planning on finishing the DC ones this weekend. With my guilds there are other "social" events planned, and I have a choice of participating or not.

Wifeaggro13 · April 2018

JKorr wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Personally i like that i can choose to socialize or not. If i want nonstop socialization i will go out. If i want controlled doses of socialization where i can make you go away when you annoy me, i play a mmo. I like that about mmos.... i can socialize and dont have to pretend that you arent getting under my skin because we are in the same group of people, i can just make you go away.

I dont think you understand what it is that is said on this topic.
Or maybe you want to say "I like facerolling stuff". But you dont.

Or maybe some of the "social" people make the experience of grouping to do content so toxic and unpleasant that people are really put off of even attempting the content again. How many threads have you seen here that suggest flat out not allowing players who don't have 9 billion cp points to access content? Or the ones where if someone can't do elebenty zillion dps they shouldn't even be allowed to think about joining a group? The gear police, who want to dictate what sets *must* be used if you want to join their group don't exactly throw out the welcome mat either.

If I wouldn't socialize with someone in RL/person, I see no reason to put up with them in a game I'm playing for fun and enjoyment. Trying to force me to do so will make me walk away and find a game that doesn't.

There are still places where my characters get killed. I know I'm not an uberleet min/maxer/munchkin, so I haven't gotten the bestest gear and tweaked my attributes and skills to get that last .000001% damage out of my build. While I can now solo a lot of the content, "face-rolling" everything is so not happening. I did, however, finally finish the group dungeons for the EP the other night. With one other guildie instead of a group. We're planning on finishing the DC ones this weekend. With my guilds there are other "social" events planned, and I have a choice of participating or not.

those reactions are a small portion of the end game community which is non existent , many act like that because they are tired of teaching a community that does not stick around.

JKorr · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Same thing happened to Craglorn.
Nirn mats used to be of value (nirn weapon made a comback last year after changes to penetration were implemented).

People used to have to fight while gathering.
People used to do dailies to grab nirm items for research/deconstruct.

Then what happened? "Too hard for solo"
Rly?
Why would you need to solo hard content for good rewards anyway?
I know you cant 1vX and I know you wont do Trial score group since you dont want to be part of a community.

So why should every content be easy?
Just so that people can pretent to explore. Even after 10 DLCs?
Jump on the horse and sprint straight to the point of interest?

Ye you will act as if you enjoy killing overland but 10 mins later... horse simulator.
And how many times will you revisit this easy location that you have forced on the mmorpg players dear carebear?

I'm a crafter. I really had no interest in doing the content in Craglorn, but I wanted the crafting mats, so I went. Since at that time I was a lower level, my character died. A lot. I finally leveled up and improved my gear to the point I managed to beat the wasps. Did it give me a sense of improvement? Yes. Did it make me want to do more content in craglorn? Heck no. It just meant my character didn't die as much while farming mats there. Still haven't done any quests in craglorn. Maybe someday.

I don't know about you, but as long as I'm having fun and enjoying the game, I will continue to play. How many times will I do the "easy" content, dear hardcore uberleet? Let's see....How many alts are we allowed to have now....14? 15? Whatever the limit is, I have the full roster on one account, and am at the halfway point on my second account. All but 3 are cp160.

JKorr · April 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Personally i like that i can choose to socialize or not. If i want nonstop socialization i will go out. If i want controlled doses of socialization where i can make you go away when you annoy me, i play a mmo. I like that about mmos.... i can socialize and dont have to pretend that you arent getting under my skin because we are in the same group of people, i can just make you go away.

I dont think you understand what it is that is said on this topic.
Or maybe you want to say "I like facerolling stuff". But you dont.

Or maybe some of the "social" people make the experience of grouping to do content so toxic and unpleasant that people are really put off of even attempting the content again. How many threads have you seen here that suggest flat out not allowing players who don't have 9 billion cp points to access content? Or the ones where if someone can't do elebenty zillion dps they shouldn't even be allowed to think about joining a group? The gear police, who want to dictate what sets *must* be used if you want to join their group don't exactly throw out the welcome mat either.

If I wouldn't socialize with someone in RL/person, I see no reason to put up with them in a game I'm playing for fun and enjoyment. Trying to force me to do so will make me walk away and find a game that doesn't.

There are still places where my characters get killed. I know I'm not an uberleet min/maxer/munchkin, so I haven't gotten the bestest gear and tweaked my attributes and skills to get that last .000001% damage out of my build. While I can now solo a lot of the content, "face-rolling" everything is so not happening. I did, however, finally finish the group dungeons for the EP the other night. With one other guildie instead of a group. We're planning on finishing the DC ones this weekend. With my guilds there are other "social" events planned, and I have a choice of participating or not.

those reactions are a small portion of the end game community which is non existent , many act like that because they are tired of teaching a community that does not stick around.

Then they really shouldn't be surprised when the community doesn't stick around. :shrug: "I won't play with you because you suck. No, why should I bother to show you/teach you the mechanics? I was BORN knowing how to do all this stuff" really isn't a "but the social interaction is an integral part of the game" ideal. Act like elite tools, don't be surprised when people don't want to play in your group or socialize much. The more difficult you make the content, the fewer people will find it worth attempting.

Sevn · April 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

They should just remove the mobs in overland questing they are just in the way. Let people just move from quest marker to quest marker talking there was to solving the world's issue. It's pretty much already like that, you can use WoE pull 20 mobs and stand holding block and wait for everything to die its really sad.

And before someone say remove ur cp and try it I lvled a new character on EU with no cp used drop sets and was still able to do this on a mdk.

I cringe at these unsubstantiated claims. Just pure BS. I've been leveling up a bunch of low lvl non cp toons all week in basic gear and have been having to actually fight for my life, dying several times on what you all consider extremely easy content.

Hell, just last night about 8 of us low level toons, 3 or 4 high lvls all wiped on the minotaur wb. I can solo him on my cp toons. This event I've done so much people watching and the number of deaths I've seen is staggering.

I rarely if ever die on my max toons, so you folks are just going to have to accept that you are all awesome and nothing will challenge you, not even the challenging content you haven't even tried.

Sevn · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

One challenging DLC after 4 years should not be an issue for carebears.

Limited time/resources=

Make content for us, the majority casual carebears that you know will sell and last us 2 or 3 months easily or make content for a minority group that won't sell all that well and last them MAYBE a month because they are super awesome and beating scripted npc's is child's play for them so you'll have to churn out twice as much content solely for them at half the profit.

Which option as a business would YOU choose?

DMuehlhausen · April 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Let's see the progress of the game.
Craglorn had group activities in a nice open world environment in which only you could get nirn items/mats. Obsolete. Turned into yet another themepark for antisocial/immersed ppl.

IC. The only place you could gather top gear materials while playing against enemies. Dont want to gather? Go sell gold mats and buy base mats instead.
What happened to IC? V160 mats became available to every area.
IC turn into yet another themepark.
However empty, people still complain about being killed by players in a PvP zone. Mind you IC is empty. Completely empty.

Orsinium. Nice WB that require groups (no real rewards tho)
The overland however is still an easy themepark.
What else... the top weapons at the time could be farmed solo. In an mmorpg....
Thieves Guild. Themepark.
Dark Brotherhood. Themepark.
Morrowind. Themepark.
Clockwork. Finally a nice addition with a Trial that offers serious rewards. Still a themepark tho.

Why is it so easy in an mmorpg to faceroll every map in the game, solo?
Why mmorpg players are forced to such a carebear environment for antisocial people that should really be playing a single player game?

There is no way I can pursuade my guild to join again in this game.
They tell me: PvE is so easy and isolated from the community.
PvP is sooooo optional that it doesn't provide a sense of accomplishment.

So Zos.
Since you have provided a full map (plus 2 dimentions outside of the map [Clockwork/Soul Harbor]) for all those players that want to have a good time exploring, can you provide a small slice of land with challenging open world content for MMORPG players?

Thank you

PS. PVP Also some guild vs guild features.
AvAvA offer nothing to people that want to form a 50-100 head clan and compete against others.
AvAvA is all about forming a group of 24 and farming AP. Switching sides and the rest.
Groups of 24(Raids.. not guilds...) are too small to be considered a community. A community with common goals and loyalty to each other

PS2. PvE. I am getting really bored jumping from instance to instance to complete dungeons from Mournhold. It feels like Crash Bandecot farming trophies.
I want challenging open world PvE with serious rewards.

PS3. Dueling took sooooo long to happen.

Let players open PvP toggle and fight others that have chosen to open PvP tag.
Those that dont open PvP toggle cannot be attacked or attack.

Add value to your game.
It is an mmorpg. Not a single player

Wow it's almost like they want their product to appeal to a larger number of consumers and not just the .5% of players that can be on all the time grinding gear.

With that rant over...I'm with you. I do think there could be a better balance. Everquest back in the day was to far to the difficult slider. You had to be a certain class or find groups to do anything, even just level. WoW though got it essentially perfect at launch. Everyone zone had a boss, or a few Elite level quests where you needed groups or 1 other person to get through which encouraged grouping early on and making friends.

Not sure why but for Wrath they made everything face roll easy and every MMO has never looked back since.

ZioGio · April 2018

Let's bring it back to the crux of the OP. There hasn't been another DLC with group-based overland difficulty and it's long past due.

I think there's validity to that. The OP sees an itch that isn't being scratched for part of the current player base and which might draw in more players.

Personally, I'd rather see people make suggestions on how to improve their gaming experience rather than have them quit. Just like in real life, we all have our priorities and one's is just as valid as the others'.

I also want to say that, based on 20 years of playing MMORPGs, I don't consider ESO a true theme park. It's not entirely a sandbox game, either, but I've seen more restrictive theme park iterations than ESO that don't let you off the rails.

SickleCider · April 2018

I sat down and thought about what discourages me from grouping up, and decided it actually has nothing to do with difficulty or the lack thereof. It has more to do with the fact that you always feel alone when you're questing/dungeoneering with people. I play most of the content in this game with a friend, and it always strikes and disturbs me that the quest experience is never shared. She is having her own conversations with her own copies of the NPCs. During escort situations, we even end up with our own copy of the NPC, visible to one another! There's no conversation about how we want to approach content, what decisions to make. Even the NPCs in vet dungeons, where a group is expected, treat you as though you're the only person in the room. We find ways to make it work and have fun with it, but there's no incentive to risk reaching out to (potentially rude) people and making new friends when I feel like I'm playing alone, regardless. I understand for a lot of people the excitement of surmounting a challenge with others is enough, and that's valid. That's just what discourages me, personally.

RainfeatherUK · April 2018

I can't bring myself to bother with alot of the quests in ESO precisely because of the way they discourage cooperation. That part of them has been terrible since day one. Questing and sharing an objective in PvE is severely tiresome.

With the voice over/npc mini cutscene style conversations, I vastly prefered SWTOR and its way of including the group in conversations. Granted the cost of such a system and interlocking decision making was alot of work - but it was a group experience worth doing.

With how anti-social the lions share of the game feels, I don't find it much surprise that the anti-social demographic developed here whilst the social players left in droves. The game simply makes working together tedious outside of a few token times that you need to, such as certain dungeons/pvp.

Its a pity because I like plenty about ESO despite my complaints. The flaws however, are difficult for me to get along with as an extremely social/traditional mmo player, so I go elsewhere with everyone like me. Which seems to suit the casual majority playerbase here just fine lol.

For me however, I dont really understand the point of frittering time away on something that is devoid of risk - thus technically worthless. Perhaps in the end I'm a challenge chaser. There simply isnt enough of that (thus no teamwork required) for most of the game.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Personally i like that i can choose to socialize or not. If i want nonstop socialization i will go out. If i want controlled doses of socialization where i can make you go away when you annoy me, i play a mmo. I like that about mmos.... i can socialize and dont have to pretend that you arent getting under my skin because we are in the same group of people, i can just make you go away.

I dont think you understand what it is that is said on this topic.
Or maybe you want to say "I like facerolling stuff". But you dont.

Or maybe some of the "social" people make the experience of grouping to do content so toxic and unpleasant that people are really put off of even attempting the content again. How many threads have you seen here that suggest flat out not allowing players who don't have 9 billion cp points to access content? Or the ones where if someone can't do elebenty zillion dps they shouldn't even be allowed to think about joining a group? The gear police, who want to dictate what sets *must* be used if you want to join their group don't exactly throw out the welcome mat either.

If I wouldn't socialize with someone in RL/person, I see no reason to put up with them in a game I'm playing for fun and enjoyment. Trying to force me to do so will make me walk away and find a game that doesn't.

There are still places where my characters get killed. I know I'm not an uberleet min/maxer/munchkin, so I haven't gotten the bestest gear and tweaked my attributes and skills to get that last .000001% damage out of my build. While I can now solo a lot of the content, "face-rolling" everything is so not happening. I did, however, finally finish the group dungeons for the EP the other night. With one other guildie instead of a group. We're planning on finishing the DC ones this weekend. With my guilds there are other "social" events planned, and I have a choice of participating or not.

those reactions are a small portion of the end game community which is non existent , many act like that because they are tired of teaching a community that does not stick around.

1) When compared to a community as a whole, yes. But they ruin the content for everyone. I wont do vet content because i cannot literally stand the elitists attitudes in it. They literally suck all the joy out of the game...so they can play with themselves. I run normals with newbies who are far more pleasant, fun, sociable, and entertaining to run with.

2) People dont stick around in video games. Its just the way it is. Get over it already, its not marriage. There is no "until death do us part" clause in the TOS.

3) Not everyone wants to turn gaming into a doctorate. If a "vet" thinks im going to spend my free time researching how to play a game and watching some neckbeard on youtube that hasnt left mom's basement in two weeks show us how uber is he, then they would be higher than 3 hippies in a helicopter. Not to mention i dont like "cheat mode" I like to figure out things on my own as do many people. That is part of the gaming experience. Research is NOT part of the gaming experience.

4) This is one of the most toxic vet communities ive ever had the displeasure of gaming with. Ive never had a vet community so toxic it actually put me off certain content because its a cesspool of elitism/superiority/ and selfishness. And considering my resume of previous titles that i have done end game content in thats pretty impressive.

Fur_like_snow · April 2018

In ESO the majority of my time lately is spent farming dungeons for sets to outfit my alts. once I have the route worked out doesn't require much input so I have time to catch up on my Netflix shows. I could stress myself out in vMA and still not get the staff I want but picking chests and completing item sets is more appealing.