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Healers get way more points than damage or tanks?

gertonab16_ESO
Well, it seems a healer gets a bunch more AP than tanks and damage, from clearing one objective (where I was using siege AND fighting) a healer who only healed got about 3 times the AP.
I don't mind making healers rewarding, but why don't i get points for tanking damage if they get for healing? Or is it because they get secondary tags from AoE heals?
There is no way for me to catch up to that person, since he has almost twice my points, even though i was ranked much earlier (2nd and now third, but now overtaken by this healer), and I have only been doing pvp.
So, is this intended? IF so, when trying to get emperor, make sure you have lots of heals....
  • Lenthas
    Lenthas
    Healers... stay alive longer, therefor they will amass more points overall since any healing done will count for getting points.

    Tanking damage and getting points... hmm that would apply to everyone getting damaged, its impossible to know if the person is actually tanking or just taking natural damage from fighting, you can't tell if the damage is being "tanked" or just flat out taken naturally.

    Healers are ranged, healers stay back and they ...heal, they will always get more points in any game that has similar mechanics.
  • gertonab16_ESO
    Well, games balance it out in different ways, it just seems weird to me. Let's say a healer heals 2 people, they are not in a party, each person kills on other, so they both do 100% damage, the healer would still get more points, if they were in a group or tagged both targets they would all get the same points.
    I don't mind the way they play, it just feels like they are getting too much compared to others, especially those siegeing, if anything siege should get the most points :P
  • crimsonBZD
    crimsonBZD
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    I'm sure they will balance it out personally.

    Actually, I'll bet it was one of those oversights where game devs have faith in the mass of their own community not to do whatever they can to get to the top of an numerical ranking system.

    Like, "lets make heals score 3x more than kills so then hopefully people will be encouraged to heal their teammates." and instead people just run around trying to heal the noobs with daggers.
  • Furgus
    Furgus
    indeed
  • Minxylady
    Minxylady
    I agree with Crimson on this..
    primrodiallogo23_zps59966b13.png
  • gertonab16_ESO
    Yeah, i also believe it was an oversight, but no less of an issue of balance. Then again, more healers is good :P
  • magnumXopus
    If this is true, I'm a healer and I don't have a problem with it. :-P
  • mcatchlovb16_ESO
    mcatchlovb16_ESO
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    Time to grab the healing staff :)
  • frwinters_ESO
    frwinters_ESO
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    If you look at the new patch notes, healers ability to gain AP from healing is being reduced. I noticed since beta that healers in my guild were always highest in alliance points and always highest in rank then most, with few exceptions of course.
  • jscottallenub17_ESO
    jscottallenub17_ESO
    Soul Shriven
    Be prepared for more running to get back to the fight if you want to implement changes to reduce the relevance of healers.
  • NordJitsu
    NordJitsu
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    It does need to be balanced I think. Right now they get way more.
    @NordJitsu - Guild Master (Main Character = Hlaalu Idas)
    GREAT HOUSE HLAALU
  • gertonab16_ESO
    "Reduced the percentage required to gain credit for a kill for healers that were healing an ally."
    Actually, they are buffing healers :P
  • Custos91
    Custos91
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    Yeah, its a buff, was woried for a short time^^
    Then there is the question:
    How do you classify a healer in ESO?
    I am a fulltime Healer, with 4 templar active skills , 4 resto staff active skills (there could be mistakes... but something in this direction...), the heal ultimate, undaunted heal pool, mageglowingthing for denying stealth and all the passives an actives I could get for support or mana regg....
    I don't have a single cooldown, and 2 points in dawns wrath (ironically the skill which prevents 30% healing, thanks to this i need no other damage sources while questing, and who knows? If there is a really annoying enemy healer...)
    And now you have a bunch of intelligent players who think they would live longer if they use heals in PVP, they are right, and since there are mostly AE heals in the resto staff line, this is a huge benefit for your team...
    If heals would get nerfed, these two type of people would still exist, they are healing because of personal reasons...
    So if real healers get more points, whats the problem?
    We are talking about people who can't do you any harm, with any luck...
    And whats wrong with throwing heals while the siege weapons are doing their jobs?

    I would only see a problem if there would be leachers in the List, people who exploit this thing...

    If healers really would get a nerf, what will happen?
    You have less healers, means more walking, less epic battles for you--> less fun in Cyrodill
    Guess who will buy soulstones to rezz important group members?
    Healers, since they are thinking about keeping people alive all the time, I was very frustrated, as I noticed you can't get soulgems for AP...I somehow had the opinion the NPC must sell them for AP.... see?
    Healer-thinking...
    Oil, stone tossing thing, another stone tossing thing...Oh, cool a stone! A stone to get people back to life! MUST HAVE!
    additionally, healers have more supportive tools, like AE health and stam regg, while many DPS tools are:
    You are doing more dmg now.

    I think the problem with healers will vanish with the development of communication, because killing all healers of a zerg is a job for 10 people, and if they succed, the zerg will be gone, instant, and while DPS players would get points in this situation, a healer will not, because he is only healing himsels, and that not for 5 minutes, 30 seconds is more like it...
    as long as healer are longer under the living people, they will get more points, but with faster, less stationary battles, that will fade...
    Warden Main apparently... 7 Wardens currently, otherwise a healer of every class.
    Mostly active in No CP PVP on EU, blaming the buffbot meta in pve.
    I want to feel like I am saving somebodies life, not like I am carrying amunition for them...
  • gertonab16_ESO
    TL;DR on bottom.

    In my mind, what you are saying is nonsensical, the problem you are talking about is also something that can be fixed by communication. Just tell 1 person to heal in each group of 4 and you won't have to worry about no healers, or ask 2 to part-time heal. Also, i have lots of Greater soulstones, wether i heal or not, since it helps the group, still doesn't grant me anything, not having a soulstone is stupid, having one does not make you a good healer. I've used them way more than other have used them on me, still get nothing from it. Who would ress the healer if the healer was the only one with a soulstone? The Greater Soulstones cost gold is because they can be bought and used outside of Cyrodill, and they can be found while playing at higher levels. So, it won't even be an issue at 50.

    In all honesty, there aren't enough healers atm, but many of those that do heal just sit at the back and do not worry about those dying at the front. Yet they still rack up points. I am not saying healers should have to tank, or die in the front lines, but the guys that do the dirty work, dying to protect the healers and the siege, get shafted, by not being able to get points.

    I am not saying healers should get less points than others, I am saying everyone should be on a level playing field. Those who siege get shafted, those who form a fleshwall with melee get shafted, while ranged can't tag enough people to get close, even if they live. Meanwhile you say that healers getting more points is not an issue?

    It is more likely that there will be no epic battles since everyone will just run around and heal, without besieging and without killing, than no epic battles because everyone gets the same points for the same effort.

    Or are you saying that those that lead the fray do not put in effort to win the battle? If you die and want to get back, you have to ride all the way back, then try to kill people again (this downtime is fine, no getting points if not fighting). But hey, there is no effort involved, so why would i get anything, might as well give me a loss of points since I died?


    It is very hard to convey this properly in writing, but basically the game currently doesn't award effort to take points to those that fight and die, while healers get points for ALL the other people's efforts when targets die.

    I wrote it before, but I will it again and clarify.
    This is what I've found while playing around in Cyrodill:

    There are 2 four people groups, A and B. They are not in the same party, but fighting on the same alliance.
    Both these groups have a healer.
    They engage in a small skirmish with another group of players, let's say 10 people.
    Group A manages to tag and kill 4 people.
    Group B manages to tag and 6 people.
    Group A will get awarded for 4 kills, and Group B for 6 kills.
    Except the two healers, they both get 10 points, since their AoE heals gives them secondary tags on all targets that both groups kill.

    Now, in this scenario, in what way are the healers entitled to more points than the rest of the group? Because they are squishy and support? Isn't the tank who is getting beat on and cc-ing doing just as much? Or the direct damage that swiftly kill their targets?
    Let's say someone dies midfight. That person gets almost no points unless his or her group kills people while sitting there dead, doing nothing. Trying to get back by releasing is actually counterproductive if you want to get points.

    In this scenario i'm sure you could manage to tag every enemy even as a damage dealer, but when the party becomes 100 man strong? Not so much, while the healers will still manage to get tags with so called "smart-heals" due to other players being damaged. Even if the zerg wipes because of healers being targeted, they will still have more tags than others in their group because they can just go grab a drink while dead and watch the AP roll in when they get back.

    TL:DR:
    I am not saying healers should be "nerfed" or their AP gain shut down, but it needs to be in line with the rest of the people who are trying to do their best to further the advancement of their campaign.

    If it's not, i'll just roll healer and watch everyone else do the same.
    Edited by gertonab16_ESO on April 3, 2014 12:13AM
  • illipthgore
    It should be simple but because of this *** PvP system they have and the poor phaseing aspect they don't seem to be able to get PvE group system working properly so I cant see a fix to this until they have gotten what they seem to deem their more important customer fixed.
  • Custos91
    Custos91
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    Will leave proper comment later, atm no time...
    Warden Main apparently... 7 Wardens currently, otherwise a healer of every class.
    Mostly active in No CP PVP on EU, blaming the buffbot meta in pve.
    I want to feel like I am saving somebodies life, not like I am carrying amunition for them...
  • Custos91
    Custos91
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    Serverdown, seems perfect^^
    Was in Cyrodill now really often (100k + rank points, top 100 home campaign)
    And:
    no Problem, stealth players start to snipe me out, so I'am down more often, the NPCs target healer REALLY often, I'm considering more spell resist only for NPC mages, with ae silence, root with silence and beeing 3 hittet its not really fun...
    But: There are even tanks who get points faster than I am, in fact we have really many DKs unter the top 20...
    I don't see any prob atm, only my AP per hour change extrem, did once like 10 k in 2 hours and today only 2 k in 2 hours...
    Seems perfectly balanced to me...
    Warden Main apparently... 7 Wardens currently, otherwise a healer of every class.
    Mostly active in No CP PVP on EU, blaming the buffbot meta in pve.
    I want to feel like I am saving somebodies life, not like I am carrying amunition for them...
  • Ticare
    Ticare
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    Healers need every nerf they can get. We need more stealth spammer soloers and archers instead of overrepresented healers.
    Edited by Ticare on April 7, 2014 4:57PM
  • Kolur
    Kolur
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    Be glad... If they did make healers get less or same AP.
    I know I and atleast 20% of total PvP healers, would simply quit lol.
    I enjoy Healing. But I find rushing In headfirst and taking people out on the front lines alot more exciting. The moment healing stops being worth it (As in, gives same AP as the guy that Is running around getting kills) Then atleast 20% of total PvP healers will stop It completely. And atleast another 10-20% will reduce It alot and just start killing instead.
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