Grinding assault/support when you hate pvp

ZeroXFF · February 2018

lucky_Sage wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I feel the same way about Undaunted and I don't really hate doing dungeons I just don't like the repetition of doing them over and over and over and over. Just like PvP the best elements of Undaunted are in the final levels of the passives. Unlike PvP however, you can't just quit doing Undaunted once you've 'gotten what you needed' because as I said the best parts are at the final 9th level of Undaunted. Conversely if you don't like PvP the final passives of Alliance War skills are not even needed or useful. Seems a little backwards doesn't it?

If you don't like pve, you're playing the wrong game. The main focus of ESO is pve, so expecting a pvper to pve is in fact not backwards at all, it's what the game is about. But expecting a pve player to do pvp is very much backwards, because if you want to protect Nirn, you shouldn't have to kill other people to be able to do so, because it entirely defeats the purpose of your pursuit.

With that said, I agree that it's a poor design choice. Skills (and in fact skill points) shouldn't be hidden behind specific game modes, not having access to certain gear sets is enough of a punishment.

@ZeroXFF then why when this game launched it was pvp focused go back and look at all old adds and interviews it was mostly pvp it just changed because of poor server and balance o pvpers quit so went more pve now but for us pvpers its takes a long time for undaunted and it at most 3 hours to lvl my undaunted 5 when ive don't about 10 pledges and about 20 or so dunguons and I'm just now at 7 when that's days of work that cant be done in a night the best gear is in dunguons so I have to farm them and the golden vender is a joke its more luck and rng than doing the dungeon for it. you also have mages guild fighters guild also take a long time all pve needed for pvpers

I wish it only took 4 hours to get undaunted up so I could pvp . its part of the game dasign they want you to do all if you tried ou might fnd a way to enjoy it I do with dungeons some times and some times I hate them

But you know that if you complete an undaunted quest, you will get your skills up. Also, the dungeons are always the same. Once you know how to kill a boss, you can kill him over and over again.

In pvp on the other hand, when I tried collecting skyshards in cyro with my new lvl14 tank, I got ganked by 2 CP300+ people who didn't stop when I didn't even try to fight back and told them that they can kill me when I have the skyshard (had 50k+ HP with that cyro buff and warrior poet set, so yeah, I actually had the time to type it out), because I don't give a single flying f*** about anything else. I doubt it would be any different if I tried repairing keeps or capturing resources as is suggested here.

It has little to do with how long it takes, it has everything to do with how annoying it is when a ganker jumps you when you're minding your own business. I hate dealing with people like that, so pvp is the most frustrating thing ever. It's not just devoid of fun, it's actively ruining my mood.

And in regards to what some others are saying about how long of a grind pvp is vs pve, you're being dishonest. If you are going to compare getting mage's guild, fighters guild, undaunted and all skill points, how about you compare it to getting the 50 skill points from pvp, and not just vigor. Because I can get all pve skillpoints in a month (including all currently existing DLCs), along with leveling a char and all aforementioned guild skills. I doubt you can get the pvp skill points that fast, even if you're a pro pvper.

Seraphayel · February 2018

I guess playing battlegrounds doesn't count towards the PvP skill lines?

Mayrael · February 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

I guess playing battlegrounds doesn't count towards the PvP skill lines?

It does.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I feel the same way about Undaunted and I don't really hate doing dungeons I just don't like the repetition of doing them over and over and over and over. Just like PvP the best elements of Undaunted are in the final levels of the passives. Unlike PvP however, you can't just quit doing Undaunted once you've 'gotten what you needed' because as I said the best parts are at the final 9th level of Undaunted. Conversely if you don't like PvP the final passives of Alliance War skills are not even needed or useful. Seems a little backwards doesn't it?

If you don't like pve, you're playing the wrong game. The main focus of ESO is pve, so expecting a pvper to pve is in fact not backwards at all, it's what the game is about. But expecting a pve player to do pvp is very much backwards, because if you want to protect Nirn, you shouldn't have to kill other people to be able to do so, because it entirely defeats the purpose of your pursuit.

With that said, I agree that it's a poor design choice. Skills (and in fact skill points) shouldn't be hidden behind specific game modes, not having access to certain gear sets is enough of a punishment.

@ZeroXFF then why when this game launched it was pvp focused go back and look at all old adds and interviews it was mostly pvp it just changed because of poor server and balance o pvpers quit so went more pve now but for us pvpers its takes a long time for undaunted and it at most 3 hours to lvl my undaunted 5 when ive don't about 10 pledges and about 20 or so dunguons and I'm just now at 7 when that's days of work that cant be done in a night the best gear is in dunguons so I have to farm them and the golden vender is a joke its more luck and rng than doing the dungeon for it. you also have mages guild fighters guild also take a long time all pve needed for pvpers

I wish it only took 4 hours to get undaunted up so I could pvp . its part of the game dasign they want you to do all if you tried ou might fnd a way to enjoy it I do with dungeons some times and some times I hate them

But you know that if you complete an undaunted quest, you will get your skills up. Also, the dungeons are always the same. Once you know how to kill a boss, you can kill him over and over again.

In pvp on the other hand, when I tried collecting skyshards in cyro with my new lvl14 tank, I got ganked by 2 CP300+ people who didn't stop when I didn't even try to fight back and told them that they can kill me when I have the skyshard (had 50k+ HP with that cyro buff and warrior poet set, so yeah, I actually had the time to type it out), because I don't give a single flying f*** about anything else. I doubt it would be any different if I tried repairing keeps or capturing resources as is suggested here.

It has little to do with how long it takes, it has everything to do with how annoying it is when a ganker jumps you when you're minding your own business. I hate dealing with people like that, so pvp is the most frustrating thing ever. It's not just devoid of fun, it's actively ruining my mood.

And in regards to what some others are saying about how long of a grind pvp is vs pve, you're being dishonest. If you are going to compare getting mage's guild, fighters guild, undaunted and all skill points, how about you compare it to getting the 50 skill points from pvp, and not just vigor. Because I can get all pve skillpoints in a month (including all currently existing DLCs), along with leveling a char and all aforementioned guild skills. I doubt you can get the pvp skill points that fast, even if you're a pro pvper.

Umm... You say that farming skyshards in Cyro is hard? In this 90% empty zone as someone said? Even for skyshards behind gates it usualy takes me max. 2-3 days to collected them. Collecting them actually takes like 10 minutes when gates are down, and waiting for gates to be open shouldn't be counted as "play time".

You like dungs, we like pvp. You need to do few hours of farming, we need weeks at best and still I don't see PvPers starting new threads every few weeks that they are forced to do dungeons, this is what irritate us, because there was already many changes to facilitate earning of "PvP" skills and its still not enough for you... I'm sorry I am harsh but earning vigor and caltroops is one of the easiest things in this game already, don't be to greedy.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

There is no PVE alternative much as we'd like.

Your best bet is battlegrounds, where, win or lose, you are guarenteed 3K AP minimum.

QuebraRegra · February 2018

Can't read all the pages, but 2 important points I haven]t need mentioned yet:

- you can kill a delve boss in Cyrodill or a 1hr boost to AP gains

- get yer AP early! If you need Alliance PVP skills, always grind them out EARLY, in the non-vet campaign, sans CP.

**don't forget to pass on yer siege equipment when you finish grinding AP, and leave campaign.
**AP gains made during this time can be used to purchase gear from the GOLDEN VENDOR, which has direct effects on PVE

QuebraRegra · February 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I feel the same way about Undaunted and I don't really hate doing dungeons I just don't like the repetition of doing them over and over and over and over. Just like PvP the best elements of Undaunted are in the final levels of the passives. Unlike PvP however, you can't just quit doing Undaunted once you've 'gotten what you needed' because as I said the best parts are at the final 9th level of Undaunted. Conversely if you don't like PvP the final passives of Alliance War skills are not even needed or useful. Seems a little backwards doesn't it?

If you don't like pve, you're playing the wrong game. The main focus of ESO is pve, so expecting a pvper to pve is in fact not backwards at all, it's what the game is about. But expecting a pve player to do pvp is very much backwards, because if you want to protect Nirn, you shouldn't have to kill other people to be able to do so, because it entirely defeats the purpose of your pursuit.

With that said, I agree that it's a poor design choice. Skills (and in fact skill points) shouldn't be hidden behind specific game modes, not having access to certain gear sets is enough of a punishment.

@ZeroXFF then why when this game launched it was pvp focused go back and look at all old adds and interviews it was mostly pvp it just changed because of poor server and balance o pvpers quit so went more pve now but for us pvpers its takes a long time for undaunted and it at most 3 hours to lvl my undaunted 5 when ive don't about 10 pledges and about 20 or so dunguons and I'm just now at 7 when that's days of work that cant be done in a night the best gear is in dunguons so I have to farm them and the golden vender is a joke its more luck and rng than doing the dungeon for it. you also have mages guild fighters guild also take a long time all pve needed for pvpers

I wish it only took 4 hours to get undaunted up so I could pvp . its part of the game dasign they want you to do all if you tried ou might fnd a way to enjoy it I do with dungeons some times and some times I hate them

But you know that if you complete an undaunted quest, you will get your skills up. Also, the dungeons are always the same. Once you know how to kill a boss, you can kill him over and over again.

In pvp on the other hand, when I tried collecting skyshards in cyro with my new lvl14 tank, I got ganked by 2 CP300+ people who didn't stop when I didn't even try to fight back and told them that they can kill me when I have the skyshard (had 50k+ HP with that cyro buff and warrior poet set, so yeah, I actually had the time to type it out), because I don't give a single flying f*** about anything else. I doubt it would be any different if I tried repairing keeps or capturing resources as is suggested here.

It has little to do with how long it takes, it has everything to do with how annoying it is when a ganker jumps you when you're minding your own business. I hate dealing with people like that, so pvp is the most frustrating thing ever. It's not just devoid of fun, it's actively ruining my mood.

And in regards to what some others are saying about how long of a grind pvp is vs pve, you're being dishonest. If you are going to compare getting mage's guild, fighters guild, undaunted and all skill points, how about you compare it to getting the 50 skill points from pvp, and not just vigor. Because I can get all pve skillpoints in a month (including all currently existing DLCs), along with leveling a char and all aforementioned guild skills. I doubt you can get the pvp skill points that fast, even if you're a pro pvper.

CP PVP is a *** show... Balance is a joke... don't worry eventually everything will get the nerf bat due to unchecked CP power creep that some of the esteemed player base said would never happen (we should go look those threads up sometime

Feanor · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

There is no PVE alternative much as we'd like.

Your best bet is battlegrounds, where, win or lose, you are guarenteed 3K AP minimum.

It’s 7k AP minimum since Dragon Bones.

phileunderx2 · February 2018

Took my argonian healer in yesterday to get warhorn. Got it in 3 hrs. Did not group just ran around and spamed heals and the odd jesus beam.

Seraphayel · February 2018

It does.

Really??? Great news! Haven't played battlegrounds yet but if I can level Alliance skills through it I am very happy. How good does it work though compared to Cyrodiil?

@Mayrael

Hurtfan · February 2018

Maybe PvPers should charge gold to help PvErs get what they need in Cyrodiil...

Or join a PvP guild, problem solved. Let your guildies know your goals, maybe you might enjoy PvP after all is said and done

I joined a PvE guild to help me with trials and dungeons, which are my least favorite things to do in ESO

Mayrael · February 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

It does.

Really??? Great news! Haven't played battlegrounds yet but if I can level Alliance skills through it I am very happy. How good does it work though compared to Cyrodiil?

@Mayrael

Yes it does

all you need to do is to gain AP, it doesnt matter how will you do that (drawing from bank doesn't count :P)

NyassaV · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

There's gotta be a better way to do this. I've spent the last 3 nights in cyrodiil and gone to just barely over rank 5 assault (need 6 for caltrops to fill out a pve trials build). I've never liked pvp in this game - aside from the balance issues cyrodiil is plagued with bugs and lag. Every time you get into a heavy battle at a keep your framerate drops to nothing, and the worst part is you get no noticable impact on your assault/support skill lines unless you actually capture the keep - you're SOL if your group gets bombed, you just wasted however much time it took to get to the keep and fight for it in the first place.

Is there a pve-centric way to level these lines? Can I just solo delves in cyro or something for AP?

Nothing bugs me more than games which force pvp onto players that dislike it, for whatever reason, in order to be effective in endgame pve. Right now caltrops is too good to pass up for a stamina dps role. At the same time, aside from monster sets (which can still be purchased from the gold vendor), nothing in pve is so critical for pvp performance.
Honestly these two skill lines are worse to level for me than mages guild, and that's saying something when it comes to console play with no mage-book addons.

Gilliamtherogue once said on live stream that when he went into PvP yeah, it wasn't his thing at first (now he is pretty good at it). But if you go into thinking your going to have a bad time, then you going to have a bad time. So he went in there with friends and thinking he could enjoy himself, and guess what? He did actually enjoy himself

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

Hollery wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

There's gotta be a better way to do this. I've spent the last 3 nights in cyrodiil and gone to just barely over rank 5 assault (need 6 for caltrops to fill out a pve trials build). I've never liked pvp in this game - aside from the balance issues cyrodiil is plagued with bugs and lag. Every time you get into a heavy battle at a keep your framerate drops to nothing, and the worst part is you get no noticable impact on your assault/support skill lines unless you actually capture the keep - you're SOL if your group gets bombed, you just wasted however much time it took to get to the keep and fight for it in the first place.

Is there a pve-centric way to level these lines? Can I just solo delves in cyro or something for AP?

Nothing bugs me more than games which force pvp onto players that dislike it, for whatever reason, in order to be effective in endgame pve. Right now caltrops is too good to pass up for a stamina dps role. At the same time, aside from monster sets (which can still be purchased from the gold vendor), nothing in pve is so critical for pvp performance.
Honestly these two skill lines are worse to level for me than mages guild, and that's saying something when it comes to console play with no mage-book addons.

Gilliamtherogue once said on live stream that when he went into PvP yeah, it wasn't his thing at first (now he is pretty good at it). But if you go into thinking your going to have a bad time, then you going to have a bad time. So he went in there with friends and thinking he could enjoy himself, and guess what? He did actually enjoy himself

Works, to a degree. I go in there to finish up Master Angler and, eventually, shards etc. Neutral. Not looking to PvP, just going about my business. There must be a huge target painted on me because I am the poster child for "gankee".

I know, I know, it's to be expected but yikes...there are some really uh...determined people in there.

Don't hate PvP just not very good at it and not much interested in it, at least not enough to strive.

NoMoreChillies · March 2018

Idea:
let me sell dungeon drops for AP
then
use that same AP to buy vigor

ZeroXFF · March 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I guess playing battlegrounds doesn't count towards the PvP skill lines?

It does.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I feel the same way about Undaunted and I don't really hate doing dungeons I just don't like the repetition of doing them over and over and over and over. Just like PvP the best elements of Undaunted are in the final levels of the passives. Unlike PvP however, you can't just quit doing Undaunted once you've 'gotten what you needed' because as I said the best parts are at the final 9th level of Undaunted. Conversely if you don't like PvP the final passives of Alliance War skills are not even needed or useful. Seems a little backwards doesn't it?

If you don't like pve, you're playing the wrong game. The main focus of ESO is pve, so expecting a pvper to pve is in fact not backwards at all, it's what the game is about. But expecting a pve player to do pvp is very much backwards, because if you want to protect Nirn, you shouldn't have to kill other people to be able to do so, because it entirely defeats the purpose of your pursuit.

With that said, I agree that it's a poor design choice. Skills (and in fact skill points) shouldn't be hidden behind specific game modes, not having access to certain gear sets is enough of a punishment.

@ZeroXFF then why when this game launched it was pvp focused go back and look at all old adds and interviews it was mostly pvp it just changed because of poor server and balance o pvpers quit so went more pve now but for us pvpers its takes a long time for undaunted and it at most 3 hours to lvl my undaunted 5 when ive don't about 10 pledges and about 20 or so dunguons and I'm just now at 7 when that's days of work that cant be done in a night the best gear is in dunguons so I have to farm them and the golden vender is a joke its more luck and rng than doing the dungeon for it. you also have mages guild fighters guild also take a long time all pve needed for pvpers

I wish it only took 4 hours to get undaunted up so I could pvp . its part of the game dasign they want you to do all if you tried ou might fnd a way to enjoy it I do with dungeons some times and some times I hate them

But you know that if you complete an undaunted quest, you will get your skills up. Also, the dungeons are always the same. Once you know how to kill a boss, you can kill him over and over again.

In pvp on the other hand, when I tried collecting skyshards in cyro with my new lvl14 tank, I got ganked by 2 CP300+ people who didn't stop when I didn't even try to fight back and told them that they can kill me when I have the skyshard (had 50k+ HP with that cyro buff and warrior poet set, so yeah, I actually had the time to type it out), because I don't give a single flying f*** about anything else. I doubt it would be any different if I tried repairing keeps or capturing resources as is suggested here.

It has little to do with how long it takes, it has everything to do with how annoying it is when a ganker jumps you when you're minding your own business. I hate dealing with people like that, so pvp is the most frustrating thing ever. It's not just devoid of fun, it's actively ruining my mood.

And in regards to what some others are saying about how long of a grind pvp is vs pve, you're being dishonest. If you are going to compare getting mage's guild, fighters guild, undaunted and all skill points, how about you compare it to getting the 50 skill points from pvp, and not just vigor. Because I can get all pve skillpoints in a month (including all currently existing DLCs), along with leveling a char and all aforementioned guild skills. I doubt you can get the pvp skill points that fast, even if you're a pro pvper.

Umm... You say that farming skyshards in Cyro is hard? In this 90% empty zone as someone said? Even for skyshards behind gates it usualy takes me max. 2-3 days to collected them. Collecting them actually takes like 10 minutes when gates are down, and waiting for gates to be open shouldn't be counted as "play time".

You like dungs, we like pvp. You need to do few hours of farming, we need weeks at best and still I don't see PvPers starting new threads every few weeks that they are forced to do dungeons, this is what irritate us, because there was already many changes to facilitate earning of "PvP" skills and its still not enough for you... I'm sorry I am harsh but earning vigor and caltroops is one of the easiest things in this game already, don't be to greedy.

No, "we" like playing a game, "you" like pissing off people and wasting their time for no reason. The skyshard anecdote was just an example of this mentality, and has nothing to do with how hard it is to get the skyshards (though hiding them behind pvp objectives is also unfair, since no skill points are hidden behind pve objectives that you couldn't complete alone or with just a small unorganized group 100% of the time).

Also, "you" have to do a few weeks of farming without even a shred of skill being required, while "we" would need about 1-2 years of farming to get the 50 skill points from the alliance war ranks, unless "we" are actually good at "your" game mode, in which case "we" might be able to do it in half a year, if "we" forego doing anything that is fun to "us" for that period of time.

And I don't know how true your claims are about pvpers never complaining, but assuming it's true, the answer is pretty obvious:
1. You are playing a pve game, where pvp is only a small part, so you know very well that you picked the wrong game if you didn't want to do pve. You have no excuse to complain, but you still resent it, so you want to punish people who prefer pve with your "deal with it" style of comments in threads about poor design.

2. You know that you can get all pve skills and skill points with absolute certainty, and without unexpected interruptions, no matter what anyone else is trying to do. So when you're trying to do what you'd rather not, you actually always succeed, so what's there to complain about? Imagine trying to get the books for the Mages Guild, but stomped on randomly by an unkillable boss you can't escape who would chase you all across the map until you're dead, multiple times. Because that would be the pve equivalent of what pvp is like.

3. You're having a lot of fun killing people who don't stand a chance against you, so why would you complain? If they got rid of the pve requirement for undaunted, the pvp requirement for A/S would certainly go too, and you'd end up fighting against people who want to fight you and are actually a match for you, and you would have your face rubbed in endless demonstrations of how bad you are. It's hard to imagine someone not wanting to avoid that.

Biro123 · March 2018

Oooh, triggered....

ZeroXFF wrote: »

No, "we" like playing a game, "you" like pissing off people and wasting their time for no reason. The skyshard anecdote was just an example of this mentality, and has nothing to do with how hard it is to get the skyshards (though hiding them behind pvp objectives is also unfair, since no skill points are hidden behind pve objectives that you couldn't complete alone or with just a small unorganized group 100% of the time).

How about every. single. dungeon. has a skill point associated to its completion. Do they not require groups? Organised for the harder ones? What about trials? I've never done one (nor do I ever intend to) but i'd be surprised if they don't grant you a skill when dungeons do. In Cyro, there are only 3 shards locked behind the gates. That's one skill point. One.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Also, "you" have to do a few weeks of farming without even a shred of skill being required, while "we" would need about 1-2 years of farming to get the 50 skill points from the alliance war ranks, unless "we" are actually good at "your" game mode, in which case "we" might be able to do it in half a year, if "we" forego doing anything that is fun to "us" for that period of time.

Who really needs all those skill points.? Btw. I'm an avid PVPer - have played almost exclusively PVP for almost 2 years and I don't have all 50 alliance war ranks - nor do I expect them all. Nor do I complain about not getting all the PVE stuff (except as a counter to stupid arguments from PVEers not getting all the PVP stuff). Sense of entitlement much?

ZeroXFF wrote: »

And I don't know how true your claims are about pvpers never complaining, but assuming it's true, the answer is pretty obvious:
1. You are playing a pve game, where pvp is only a small part, so you know very well that you picked the wrong game if you didn't want to do pve. You have no excuse to complain, but you still resent it, so you want to punish people who prefer pve with your "deal with it" style of comments in threads about poor design.

Completely FALSE. ESO was initially marketed with its PVP as a MAJOR selling point. Not other decent game offers 3-faction large-scale PVP with sieges. Telling PVPers they are in the wrong game is so wrong its unreal... Yet there are a million and one other mindless PVE grindfests out there. YOU should go to one of those instead if you don't like that ESO has a strong PVP aspect.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

2. You know that you can get all pve skills and skill points with absolute certainty, and without unexpected interruptions, no matter what anyone else is trying to do. So when you're trying to do what you'd rather not, you actually always succeed, so what's there to complain about? Imagine trying to get the books for the Mages Guild, but stomped on randomly by an unkillable boss you can't escape who would chase you all across the map until you're dead, multiple times. Because that would be the pve equivalent of what pvp is like.

And then there are those of us who like games to have an element of challenge and unpredictability. Games where you aren't guaranteed to get/win/finish everything. Games which are fun to actually play.
But there are always those who just like to smash their forehead on their keyboard and come out with some nice little reward just for turning up... Don't care about gameplay/balance/fun, just the drug that is their next little reward - that means absolutely nothing 2 seconds after getting it.

ZeroXFF wrote: »

3. You're having a lot of fun killing people who don't stand a chance against you, so why would you complain? If they got rid of the pve requirement for undaunted, the pvp requirement for A/S would certainly go too, and you'd end up fighting against people who want to fight you and are actually a match for you, and you would have your face rubbed in endless demonstrations of how bad you are. It's hard to imagine someone not wanting to avoid that.

Has absolutely no idea why people PVP.. its about testing yourself, not face-roll easy. PVE is the place for that.. How many people in PVP at any time do you actually think are complete PVE-ers just there for the caltrops as opposed to proper PVPers who know how to play?
Well I'll tell you - the vast vast majority in PVP actually know how to play to some degree. And the best fights in PVP are the EVEN fights - NOT the facerolls. DO you think people go looking for PVP-noobs to fight? or perhaps, just perhaps they attack anyone on the opposing faction and every now and then are surprised when they instantly melt because sometimes, just sometimes they come across a PVEer..
Do you think ALL PVPers should change their way of playing to one which means having a chat to a potential opponent first to see if he wants a fight or not?? Just for the once a week occurrence of killing someone who didn't want PVP in a PVP zone..? Do you realise how idiotic that sounds?

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

nothing in pve is so critical for pvp performance.
.

Hmm right.

the majority of the skyshards
the majority of the skillpoints
vMA weapons for certain builds
monstersets, yes i name them because i don't have them all and haven't seen them on golden yet
Certain sets, i want amberplasm is not available in PvP
Crafted sets, as i need to "PvE" to gather resources. Also counts for foods/drinks/potions
PvP doesn't make money so i have to grind some PvE to get some
fighterguilds
magesguild
undaunted

Really, 98% is already PvE. And you only hear PvE'ers complain who hate PvP for some skills that are not really mandatory unless some l33t guilds demands it. I did all content i did without using PvP skills.

A large portion of that is *** (not 98%, but >50%, I'm pretty sure.)

You don't need even half the skyshards. You get 64 skillpoints just for being level 50. You get additional skillpoints for each PvP rank you acquire. There are enough shards in Cyro alone that you could acquire them by accident as you roam the map. If you knock out the Public dungeon group events (< 1 evening), that's +16 skill points from the base game alone. 126 skillpoints will get you all class lines, 2 weapon lines, armor line, and all racials. You make it sound as if you need 400 shards to be competitive. You don't.

You can PvP without vMA weapons. There are also numerous sets that are PvP specific.

Monster sets are not absolutely required. For those that are, Golden will eventually sell the head piece, a very few pledges will net you enough keys for the shoulders.

Every item does not have to be available in every location in the game.

You don't have to PvE for crafted sets, you can purchase those with gold.

You don't have to PvE for many PvE sets. Those not BoP can be purchased with gold.

You don't have to "PvE" to gather resources for gear, food, drinks, or potions - you can purchase all of those things too.

You can also get many of these things with Telvar, which can also be acquired by not PvE'ing, as player kills in IC grant you a portion of the Telvar they acquired.

You get gold in RFTW every 20k AP. You also get set items. Leaderboarding and Campaign emails also provide both. You can sell the set items for gold (but you probably consider being in a trade guild a "PvE" activity.) If you don't want to sell to players (too much like PvEing), you can vendor them outright.

FG can be maxed before you're even allowed (L10) to set foot in Cyrodiil. MG is a pain in the ass, but unless you're after the Ult, it's still not a dealbreaker - Magelight is the first skill in the tree.

Undaunted is also not a dealbreaker. 3-6% is minor at best. It's less than that if you're wearing heavy armor, because the HA passive already covers the bonus to health. +1200-2400 stat for the typical build will not make or break most encounters. It amounts to one free glyph, in most cases, which amounts to less than one free skill cast.

It's far easier to do without a 'free glyph' than it is to do without Warhorn, Vigor, Caltrops, Rapids, Purge, Barrier, and potentially Guard.

And finally, for all the complaint on both sides of the house, you only have to acquire these things once per character. Once you've reached a certain point, you don''t even have to PvE/PvP your pretty little head every again, if you so choose.

You can even share gear among alts if you're that opposed to acquiring more.

Biro123 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

5th night of PvP, finally got it. Part of the problem was the zergs would always stall out after a couple of keep captures and then I'd spend a couple hours getting hardly any ap. Just tedious.

Anyways, glad That's over with. Stamsorc trial build is doing much better now.

Wish I could get Undaunted Mettle in 5 evenings.. Took me 18 months.... Resigned to never getting it on another toon.

You can hit Rank 9 in 25 hours in game or less. You can hit Rank 7 (for the 3% bonus) even faster.

@Biro123 , having seen your follow posts, I'd say do 1 Dungeon Finder a day (go down the list so you get the skillpoints from the quest), vs 1-2 hours soloing runs. With the exception of the DLC's, the worst case PuG run will be the same as you soloing anyway. Best case, they accidentally kill stuff and make the run faster.

If you spent 1-2 hours in each dungeon, no wonder you got burnt out on it.

coplannb16_ESO · March 2018

next topic:
- grinding Undaunted when you hate PvE
- grinding vet dungeons and trials when you hate PvE (but need BIS gear for PvP from PvE)
- grinding vMA, vDSA when you hate PvE...
- .....

the AP grind for the alliance war skills is so much easier compared to the PvE crap... we really need more and better ways to get our gear for PvP from PvP...

Datolite · March 2018

It takes about 3 hours to get to rank 5 capping resources with a PuG. Get in there and heal some folks if you can't fight. So easy to do.

And as others have mentioned, PvPers have to put up with an ungodly long Undaunted grind if they want their armor/synergy passives - and that actually requires getting good at PvE - so don't even start.

vamp_emily · March 2018

PC/NA/DC
@vamp.emily

If you need help getting AW skills, contact me and I can help.

Feanor · March 2018

@Merlin13KAGL

Solid wall of text, but one thing stands out:

It's far easier to do without a 'free glyph' than it is to do without Warhorn, Vigor, Caltrops, Rapids, Purge, Barrier, and potentially Guard.

I’d say you can do 99% of the content without skills from the Alliance trees. Oh, you want to have the best possible setup? That’s what a dedicated PvP player wants as well - and in that case two of the best ultimates in the game and 6% more raw stats are nothing „minor“, even if you’re bent to fit it into your narrative as such. And we didn’t even touch sets yet, the PvP sets have one thing in common: most of them are either really situational or really bad. So if you really wanna PvP with a good setup you absolutely need to farm dungeons.

Stop it already please. It’s a discussion you can’t win.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

It takes about 3 hours to get to rank 5 capping resources with a PuG. Get in there and heal some folks if you can't fight. So easy to do.

And as others have mentioned, PvPers have to put up with an ungodly long Undaunted grind if they want their armor/synergy passives - and that actually requires getting good at PvE - so don't even start.

25 hours (using RGF) or less for optional passives. And that requires getting mediocre at PvE. The non-DLC hardly requires god-like PvE skills to clear and get the occasional no death/speed run, etc. So, don't even start, yourself.

PvP also gets to earn transmute crystals about 3x-4x as fast as PvE can, so I'd say it averages out.

Crank up the one, I'm sure we'd happily crank down the other. (PvE'ers also have to do that same grind for the same passives, so it's hardly exclusive.)

Peekachu99 · March 2018

Grinding gear sets, Undaunted, and monster helms when you loathe PVE? The shoe fits either foot.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Merlin13KAGL

Solid wall of text, but one thing stands out:

It's far easier to do without a 'free glyph' than it is to do without Warhorn, Vigor, Caltrops, Rapids, Purge, Barrier, and potentially Guard.

I’d say you can do 99% of the content without skills from the Alliance trees. Oh, you want to have the best possible setup? That’s what a dedicated PvP player wants as well - and in that case two of the best ultimates in the game and 6% more raw stats are nothing „minor“, even if you’re bent to fit it into your narrative as such. And we didn’t even touch sets yet, the PvP sets have one thing in common: most of them are either really situational or really bad. So if you really wanna PvP with a good setup you absolutely need to farm dungeons.

Stop it already please. It’s a discussion you can’t win.

@Feanor if you want good setups on either count, you're going to have to put forth the effort to do the content that provides it.

That's true on both sides of the house.

Transmutation made the gear grind much less significant than it once was, at least in regard to 4-man drop sets.

Believe it or not, we're saying the same thing, just in different ways. If you want to manage most of the content, you can do it without the additions that Alliance War and PvE provide.

If you want the optimal setup, you're going to have to do some of both.

Both sets of skills take far less time than they once did.

Anyone that wants the bonuses will make the effort. All I'm saying.

Feanor · March 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Merlin13KAGL

Solid wall of text, but one thing stands out:

It's far easier to do without a 'free glyph' than it is to do without Warhorn, Vigor, Caltrops, Rapids, Purge, Barrier, and potentially Guard.

I’d say you can do 99% of the content without skills from the Alliance trees. Oh, you want to have the best possible setup? That’s what a dedicated PvP player wants as well - and in that case two of the best ultimates in the game and 6% more raw stats are nothing „minor“, even if you’re bent to fit it into your narrative as such. And we didn’t even touch sets yet, the PvP sets have one thing in common: most of them are either really situational or really bad. So if you really wanna PvP with a good setup you absolutely need to farm dungeons.

Stop it already please. It’s a discussion you can’t win.

@Feanor if you want good setups on either count, you're going to have to put forth the effort to do the content that provides it.

That's true on both sides of the house.

Transmutation made the gear grind much less significant than it once was, at least in regard to 4-man drop sets.

Believe it or not, we're saying the same thing, just in different ways. If you want to manage most of the content, you can do it without the additions that Alliance War and PvE provide.

If you want the optimal setup, you're going to have to do some of both.

Both sets of skills take far less time than they once did.

Anyone that wants the bonuses will make the effort. All I'm saying.

If you put it that way we can agree. Yet here we are in a thread that QQs about having to make that effort.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Merlin13KAGL

Solid wall of text, but one thing stands out:

It's far easier to do without a 'free glyph' than it is to do without Warhorn, Vigor, Caltrops, Rapids, Purge, Barrier, and potentially Guard.

I’d say you can do 99% of the content without skills from the Alliance trees. Oh, you want to have the best possible setup? That’s what a dedicated PvP player wants as well - and in that case two of the best ultimates in the game and 6% more raw stats are nothing „minor“, even if you’re bent to fit it into your narrative as such. And we didn’t even touch sets yet, the PvP sets have one thing in common: most of them are either really situational or really bad. So if you really wanna PvP with a good setup you absolutely need to farm dungeons.

Stop it already please. It’s a discussion you can’t win.

@Feanor if you want good setups on either count, you're going to have to put forth the effort to do the content that provides it.

That's true on both sides of the house.

Transmutation made the gear grind much less significant than it once was, at least in regard to 4-man drop sets.

Believe it or not, we're saying the same thing, just in different ways. If you want to manage most of the content, you can do it without the additions that Alliance War and PvE provide.

If you want the optimal setup, you're going to have to do some of both.

Both sets of skills take far less time than they once did.

Anyone that wants the bonuses will make the effort. All I'm saying.

If you put it that way we can agree. Yet here we are in a thread that QQs about having to make that effort.

Fair enough. It's the QQ'ing that I'm QQ'ing about

GreenhaloX · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

There's gotta be a better way to do this. I've spent the last 3 nights in cyrodiil and gone to just barely over rank 5 assault (need 6 for caltrops to fill out a pve trials build). I've never liked pvp in this game - aside from the balance issues cyrodiil is plagued with bugs and lag. Every time you get into a heavy battle at a keep your framerate drops to nothing, and the worst part is you get no noticable impact on your assault/support skill lines unless you actually capture the keep - you're SOL if your group gets bombed, you just wasted however much time it took to get to the keep and fight for it in the first place.

Is there a pve-centric way to level these lines? Can I just solo delves in cyro or something for AP?

Nothing bugs me more than games which force pvp onto players that dislike it, for whatever reason, in order to be effective in endgame pve. Right now caltrops is too good to pass up for a stamina dps role. At the same time, aside from monster sets (which can still be purchased from the gold vendor), nothing in pve is so critical for pvp performance.
Honestly these two skill lines are worse to level for me than mages guild, and that's saying something when it comes to console play with no mage-book addons.

Surely, yes, it would be much better if the ability to acquire Vigor and Caltrops are afforded somehow solely in PvE land as well. Now, I'm not an avid PvPer, or those that purely logs in to PvP and spend their entire wakening day in Cyrodiil. However, I can't say I hate PvP. Hate is just too strong of a word for just a brilliant (despite all the lag/crash/bug fest plaguing) game. I do, however, dislike PvP. I have taken six stam toons in to get Vigor and Caltrops, and actually decided to push one of my toon to see how far up of leveling it can get. Thus far, this one toon is at Colonel, which I have to take a few weeks off for breaks; I still dislike PvP.

It is not disliking fighting or getting into any 1vX or 1vzerg, or anything like that (heck, if you die, that's what rezzing at keep or forward camp does.) It is the repetitive nature of rolling around, back and forth, to capture keeps, then having to retake keeps or defend; you're literally doing it over and over again. These are what the unattractive aspects of PvP are to me. Well, also, when you run into some crazy (likely cheat build) solo dude that took like 6-8 of you and your comrades out, then needing 10 or more to take a solo dude out (yeah, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something is fishy going on.) However, if you want those AP so you can level your toon up or the pursuit for Vigor/Caltrops, then that is what needs to be. Oh sure, you can heal, fix walls and doors; however, damn, that are some slow going. Thus, yes, to make it up to Colonel so far, it has been many fighting, taking keeps, recapturing keeps, defend, die and rez over and over again. Hey, sometimes, just like in real life, you have to do things you may not like, but have to do it; whether it be for a job or something.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Ok, so, this can be an option, aside from the slow going and can be costly walls and doors fixing. I guess, they call this a leech thing. I did it a couple times with one of my toon. You look at the map and see a flagged keep, and if there are your comrades and siege weapons going, you can go there. When you get there, you don't have to fight. Stay hidden and wait it out, but stay within the range of the keep. When your comrades take the keep, you will get the AP from it. Same deal for the resources. You also don't have to fight. Just go in right after your comrades have killed the NPCs there and waiting for the flag pole to switch.

So, the proceeding is just an option. It may be considered a cowardly way or leeching (I guess that what is being called, I think), but it is something for those not liking or having to fight other players. I can empathize, because I don't like killing other players. I just do it because it is something you have to do in PvP. I don't leech, other than that couple times and have bested quite a few with 1vX and got bested the same, but I still don't like PvP. However, for stam toons, it is much better to have Vigor and Caltrops, and PvP isn't all that milk and honey for many avid PvEers.

Arobain · March 2018

easy, stop disliking pvp :P there arent many bugs in cyrodiil

CromulentForumID · March 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

- Follow zerg and spam mutagen. FPS still be a problem though.
- Stay back at keep after def for tick.
- Buy bunches of wall and door repair kit, walk around, check every corner of every keep and repair everything.
- 3 days is nothing. They lower the xp a lots to get to rank 6 now. Be patient.

Please spam Rapid Regen not Mutagen please!

I am ashamed to not know why Mutagen is worse

I believe you, I am not so good at the PVPs.

Why is Rapid Regen better?

Feanor · March 2018

CromulentForumID wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

- Follow zerg and spam mutagen. FPS still be a problem though.
- Stay back at keep after def for tick.
- Buy bunches of wall and door repair kit, walk around, check every corner of every keep and repair everything.
- 3 days is nothing. They lower the xp a lots to get to rank 6 now. Be patient.

Please spam Rapid Regen not Mutagen please!

I am ashamed to not know why Mutagen is worse

I believe you, I am not so good at the PVPs.

Why is Rapid Regen better?

AP gets rewarded for the amount of damage or healing done. Rapid Regen ticks more often. So the chance for more AP is higher, thus making it better for farming.