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PVP Dragonknight Tanks are actually being buffed.

Knowledge
Knowledge
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With the removal of undodgeable attacks in the case of the Warden and Dragonknight this will only assist DK Tanks in PVP. Take for example Alcast's "Gladiator" stamina dragonknight. It uses a greatsword plus sword and shield. It relies on being able to dodge or block attacks to survive. it doesn't need to permablock as demonstrated in his video. He even states in his video that it's "really hard to die unless you're getting hit by a lot of undodgeable attacks". You can listen to that part here.

Contrary to popular belief these PVP builds that are widely complained about do not utilized full sturdy or shield play glyphs. They rely on around five sturdy glyphs and that's it. As demonstrated the build does not sit blocking 100% of the time and is far from how it works and is supposed to be played. For all intents and purposes that build, as it sits, will only be even stronger now with less attacks that can't be dodged or blocked.
  • Knowledge
    Knowledge
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    Derra wrote: »
    As much respect as i have for the quality content he puts out there on a regular bases - i don´t think alcast should be your point of reference regarding pvp in this game.

    Blocking without investment into CP or sturdy is undeniably getting a small buff though - but in my opinion it won´t be very impactful.

    The build I pointed out was a point of reference. The stamina DK tank has been around for a while and this is just his variation of it. The statement he makes about being able to survive as long as you aren't being hit with a lot of "undodgeable attacks" coupled with a build page made it worthwhile for me to use as an example. That build has been around for quite some time and didn't originate with him.

    This is another example of a build from another author. It's the same thing conceptually and doesn't rely on sturdy or shieldplay enchants.
    Edited by Knowledge on February 9, 2018 9:31AM
  • Aedaryl
    Aedaryl
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    The real builds that overperform in PvP are stamina 2h/1h&S with heavy attack as main form of sustain.

    Theze builds have crazy mitigation from 33k+ armor and block. This is associated with crazy healing (troll king, vigor, rally or FM, lingering potion that also add major expedition + optional class heal like sorc surge or warden burst heal).

    Theze build go with 2 damage set in heavy or with 1 damage set + 1 defensive set in medium. Hello 7h legion, happy you die next patch. Theze build have good sustain from heavies and very good damage.

    Theze build are block based with stamina reduc cost/weapon damage glyphs.

    What bring next patch ?

    * A cheaper block cost for them because they never used block cost glyph.

    * 100% more ressource return and a free stun on their 70% more damage heavy attacks ty new off balance changes. +10% free damage from exploiter.

    Yes, perma block in PvP is on the troll builds that doesn't kill you.

    Yes, the OP tanky damage dealer will just be EXTREMELY buffed by having even more tankiness and sustain + 10% more damage.


    Of course the gap between magicka non block build and 1h&S build is now even bigger than my 4nus.
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    7th Legion is taking a pretty significant nerf to the frequency of the heal. Might want to take that into consideration when linking builds both designed around 7th.
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Sword and board builds did not need to get cheaper block. They dish out tons of dmg and take very little dmg. If they get in trouble its very easy to just hold block and heal back up. That just got easier in U17.
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Draxys
    Draxys
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    IMO the problem with these builds isn’t the tankiness, it’s the access to dmg for just being attacked. Itemization is the culprit. Not being able to kill a player because they built for it is perfectly fine, but when they also get tons of damage, that needs to be balanced- this includes sets like seventh, fury, maybe truth although it procs differently.
    2013

    rip decibel
  • itscompton
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    Draxys wrote: »
    IMO the problem with these builds isn’t the tankiness, it’s the access to dmg for just being attacked. Itemization is the culprit. Not being able to kill a player because they built for it is perfectly fine, but when they also get tons of damage, that needs to be balanced- this includes sets like seventh, fury, maybe truth although it procs differently.
    It doesn't bother me when I can't individually kill a true tank in PvP, but when you've got tanks that can survive indefinitely with 15-20 people attacking them I'd say it's a little overboard. While these builds can't kill any half decent player they can still capture resources and res others so being basically unkillable does wind up being a pretty big tactical advantage in many situations. Put 3-4 of these builds on a resource take/defend and the other side either has to just give up the resource or commit 20+ people to a fight that will last over an hour, if not longer, just to get rid of a 4 player group.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    Shield wall + Slash + BS is more enough
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    You see folks, because of people like these, stamDK was ruined back in morrowind.

    Did they L2P? obviously not :)
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    itscompton wrote: »
    Draxys wrote: »
    IMO the problem with these builds isn’t the tankiness, it’s the access to dmg for just being attacked. Itemization is the culprit. Not being able to kill a player because they built for it is perfectly fine, but when they also get tons of damage, that needs to be balanced- this includes sets like seventh, fury, maybe truth although it procs differently.
    It doesn't bother me when I can't individually kill a true tank in PvP, but when you've got tanks that can survive indefinitely with 15-20 people attacking them I'd say it's a little overboard. While these builds can't kill any half decent player they can still capture resources and res others so being basically unkillable does wind up being a pretty big tactical advantage in many situations. Put 3-4 of these builds on a resource take/defend and the other side either has to just give up the resource or commit 20+ people to a fight that will last over an hour, if not longer, just to get rid of a 4 player group.

    When you see this, what you are looking at is 15-20 people who don't know how to kill a tank. Don't throw all your skills at them, use light and heavy attacks. Bash, stun, and interrupt them and you'll see their ability to mitigate damage drop off sharply, allowing anyone who is throwing skills to actually hit the tank.

    When you see a 1v15 against people who know what they are doing, that true tank is getting farmed for ultimate points or goes down in short order. In a 1v15 where the tank is just holding on forever and nobody seems to be able to take him down, that's 15 people who don't know how to deal with a true tank.
  • Knowledge
    Knowledge
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    Kilandros wrote: »
    7th Legion is taking a pretty significant nerf to the frequency of the heal. Might want to take that into consideration when linking builds both designed around 7th.

    It's not being nerfed quite that hard IMO. 2s cool down to heal frequency? Alcast has placed it on his stam warden build for Dragon Bones. So, that's one theory crafter that doesn't think it's that big of a deal.
  • ssewallb14_ESO
    ssewallb14_ESO
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    I keep hearing this false narrative.

    The nerf was specific to a certain kind of build that did very heavily invest in block cost reduction, which is getting hit pretty hard with this and the 7th nerf. It's not any build Alcast has posted. "Tanks" as you describe them are simply builds utilizing block as their main defensive mechanic (not actual permablock builds). These builds were never overperforming, and as such don't require any kind of nerf, and are receiving a largely insignificant buff.
    Edited by ssewallb14_ESO on February 10, 2018 12:16AM
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    omg, a streamer said something, it must be the way it is! nobody that isn't an expert on every facet of the game could possibly figure out how to upload a video
    NA • PC • AD • Characters (Breton MagDD, Khajiit StamDD, Argonian Tanks):
    Templars --- Sanctifier: Xåraan • Spirit Seeker: Xaraan-do • Shadow Breaker: Xaraanosaur
    Wardens --- Master Angler: Xäraan • Guardian of the Green: Xaraan-jo • Shield of the North: Xaraanodon
    Dragon Knights --- Tin Soldier: Xãraan • Huntmaster: Xaraan-da • Hist-Shadow: Xaraanosaurus
    Necromancers --- Witch: Xaraana • Silencer: Xaraan-qa • Boethia's Scythe: Xaraan-Vahat
    Sorcs --- Master Historian: Xa'Raan • Stormproof: Xaraan-ra • Storm Foe: Xaraanosorcus
    Nightblades --- Sun's Dusk Reaper: Xa-Raan • Scoundrel: Xaraan-dar • Grand Master-Crafter: Xaraan
    [vAAhm, vHRChm, vSOhm, vDSA, vMoLhm, vMA(FC), vHoFhm, vAS+2, vCR+3, vSShmx3, vKAhmx3, VA]
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    This build is tanky against poorly optimized builds, new players, and other tank builds.
    0331
    0602
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