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Racials balancing

hauwlynb16_ESO
It's always been obvious that racials need some balancing. While some races are popular anyway because their lore appeals to some players, that isn't a sufficient reason to leave them underpowered(I'm looking at you Bosmer).

Let me start with categorizing the passives and proposing a template that race should follow. I believe every race should have one of each to be balanced.

Maximum (A)ttribute bonus: Those are the 6% for both max stats, or the 10% for one. They are extremely powerful, being multipliers, making them scale with enchantements, set bonuses and the like in endgame. Note that they give either 10% or 12% total. I suggest they all get scaled up to 12%.

(S)mall, sometimes gimmicky and situational bonus: can include a 3% to a max attribute to compensate for all the situations in which it is useless.

(U)Unique bonus: sometimes an exclusive yet simple bonus(like Carnage), sometimes a good proc passive(Red diamond). It's what sets most of the flavor of the race.

Let's start by listing the races that follow this template and are mostly fine:

Bretons are in a good spot. They have magicka as their (A), Spell resistance as their (S) and Cost reduction as their (U).

Redguards will be good too, once stamina builds are made competitive. Considering stamina recovery as their (S), they end up in a decent position. Adrenaline Rush(U) is especially potent.

High Elves are right where they belong. Magicka recovery as their (S) and bonus elemental damage as their (U)

Dark Elves are similar. They end up with a lot of attribute bonuses and a (U) that, while only affecting fire, is quite potent.

Now let's speak about underpowered races:

Orcs have an (A), robust which is utterly terrible(see below) and Swift, which, while unique, is extremely gimmicky and obsoleted by things like Bolt Escape. It could count as their (S), but I suggest adding a 3% max health to it. Another option would be 3% max stamina for more coherence with the name, and to change their (A) to pure health. Giving them a proc based (U) that somewhat imitates the "berserking" they have in previous TES games could be interesting.

Bosmers have stamina recovery(S), Resistance which is another (S), and Stealthy, which I believe should also count as an (S). Stealthy is the problem here: they share it with Khajiits, making it invalid as a (U). Adding the 3% max stamina to it and removing the resistance entirely could work. Replacing the recovery with a pure Stamina bonus would give them the highest Max stamina in the game, essentially giving them the potential for the hardest hits with stamina weapons, including bows, fitting their lore. Their (U), on flavor, could be something that has to do with their carnivorous nature; among other possibilities.

Khajiit have a functional (U) in carnage and Stealthy as a (S). Their only problem is Robust being terrible, it should be replaced with an (A).

Nords have a Resistance (S), an Armor bonus (S) and Robust. replacing their armor with some kind of proc based war cry (U) that buffs their armor in a way, among other things, would be a nice way to keep that while bringing back war cry. They then need an (A), which could be pure health, to replace Robust.

The last underpowered race, and quite a special case, is Argonians. They have a ton of gimmick and situational bonuses, but even should they meet a situation that exploits all their strengths, they wouldn't be the best. I suggest tying the potion effectiveness bonus and the +% healing recieved into the same bonus, as their (U), keeping the resistance and giving them an (A). In lore, Argonians have been somewhat hard to figure out, and/or inconsistent. They have been said to be decent mages, known guerilla fighters, and to be resilient. Should all (A)s be buffed to 12% total, they could have one that gives them 4% to all max attributes.

That leaves us with the last race, the most powerful. Imperials have two (A)s. While their (U) is fine, removing one (A) would be a good start. You could give them Rugged as their (S) to keep them a relevant race for tanking, perhaps under another name.

That leaves us with one thing to talk about:

Why is Robust terrible? Health recovery is a low effect, barely relevant attribute. It's only in effect when you're not topped up(not often unless soloing in PvE, which is irrelevant to character optimization), and even then, whatever you gained from it is irrelevant simply because you'll naturally be overhealed for more than this recovery gave you in the first place. The value on the Robust passive itself is extremely low, too. It is by a large margin the worst passive in the game.

Note that while you might disagree with individual suggestions, the main point of this thread is to get that template to all races. Flavor in game design can only bring us so far before causing significant balance problems, and having such a basis would make it easier in the future to balance things out.
Edited by hauwlynb16_ESO on June 16, 2014 7:50PM
  • Vance.Frost
    Vance.Frost
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    I agree with health recovery being terrible but Argonians are one of the best races in the game(the best tank and healer). Imperials are good for sure but not that OP just needs a little tuning at best. Bosmer like the Imperials just need tuning. Nords Orcs need some love for sure but giving them max health wouldn't help with Argonians being the best tank because of the healing bonus and sustainability.
  • Kwik1
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    The only way a race makeover would be fair to everyone in the game is if they gave free race change tokens to everyone, otherwise those of us that have already maxed characters based on racial bonuses will get completely screwed.
  • Custos91
    Custos91
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    You noticed this thread is from 2014 right?
    Warden Main apparently... 7 Wardens currently, otherwise a healer of every class.
    Mostly active in No CP PVP on EU, blaming the buffbot meta in pve.
    I want to feel like I am saving somebodies life, not like I am carrying amunition for them...
  • Silver_Strider
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    Posted this in another topic but as a warning, a s***storm will follow because it entails a few nerf but if it means more balanced racials, I can live with myself.

    Nord
    Stalwart - Increase Max Stamina by 3/6/9% and Health Recovery by 6/13/20%
    Rugged - Increase Damage Resist by 2/4/6% and Restore 400 stamina whenever you take damage. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
    Lets Nord keep their damage resistance while also letting them restore stamina every few seconds on getting hit. Makes them pretty powerful Tanks now, while giving them a bit more damage in the stamina department

    Breton
    Magicka Mastery - Reduce the cost of spells by 2/3/4% and Increase Magic Regen by 1/3/5%
    Ever so small buff to the Reduce Cost effect with an added Magic Regen buff to make it a more sustainable Magic Race over Altmer

    Khajiit
    Nimble - Increase Max Health by 2/4/6% and Increase Stamina Regen by 4/8/12%
    Stealthy - Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 1/2/3m, Increases damage done while in Stealth by 2/4/6% and Increase Max Stamina by 1/2/3%
    Carnage - Increase Weapon and Spell Critial by 2/5/8%
    . Khajiit loses its Health regen passive in place of a 6% health buff as well as 3% more Stamina. Legit just tacked on the spell crit so that people would stop complaining about Magic Khajiit under representation.

    Bosmer
    Stealthy - Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 1/2/3m, Increases damage done while in Stealth by 2/4/6% and Increase Max Stamina by 1/2/3%
    Same as Khajiit. More Max Stamina.

    On Stealthy nerf for Khajiit and Bosmer
    Stealthy is not a healthy passive in this game, at all. It shoehorns both Khajiit and Bosmer into being nothing but gank NB builds in PvP, limiting their overall options in both PvP and PvE as they underperform in all other classes. To grant a level of flexibility in other classes, while still allowing for the ganker route to be viable, Stealthy REQUIRED this nerf.

    Imperial
    Red Diamond - Your light/heavy attacks restore 500 Max Health and 400 Max Stamina + Max Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
    No Chance %. Just a pure, flat Tri-stat restore that occurs on any weaved attacks every 4 seconds.

    Orc
    Brawny - Increase Max Health and Stamina by 3/5/7%
    I wanted to update Orcs so that it won't be completely outclassed by Khajiit and a very minor Stamina and health buff might be enough to keep them on the map

    Take from that what you will and again, brace yourself.
    Edited by Silver_Strider on February 7, 2018 12:22AM
    Argonian forever
  • ascan7
    ascan7
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    I agree with health recovery being terrible but Argonians are one of the best races in the game(the best tank and healer). Imperials are good for sure but not that OP just needs a little tuning at best. Bosmer like the Imperials just need tuning. Nords Orcs need some love for sure but giving them max health wouldn't help with Argonians being the best tank because of the healing bonus and sustainability.

    This was from 2014, when argonians were supposed to be healers but sucked way more than bretons and altmer and also were absolutely worthless as tanks.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    ascan7 wrote: »
    I agree with health recovery being terrible but Argonians are one of the best races in the game(the best tank and healer). Imperials are good for sure but not that OP just needs a little tuning at best. Bosmer like the Imperials just need tuning. Nords Orcs need some love for sure but giving them max health wouldn't help with Argonians being the best tank because of the healing bonus and sustainability.

    This was from 2014, when argonians were supposed to be healers but sucked way more than bretons and altmer and also were absolutely worthless as tanks.

    They were supposed to be tanks. Healing received was never healing given. People complained about this because they failed to read the description properly.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    Argonian is very powerful for PvP. I changed my Magplar's race from Dark Elf to this and noticed a huge difference in my survivability. It has impressed me so much that I've considered changing my MagDK and MagWarden to Argonians as well.

    It's that good. Is it OP? No I don't believe so. Is it the end all race for every build? No. For gankers, bombers, etc. it would not be necessary.

    In my opinion, they should just let you pick 3 passives from a mass list so that we can play whatever race we really want (not the one that best suits the role). - this is not in their best interest though as race change tokens would be near unnecessary
    Edited by brandonv516 on February 7, 2018 2:57AM
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    Argonian is very powerful for PvP. I changed my Magplar's race from Dark Elf to this and noticed a huge difference in my survivability. It has impressed me so much that I've considered changing my MagDK and MagWarden to Argonians as well.

    It's that good. Is it OP? No I don't believe so. Is it the end all race for every build? No. For gankers, bombers, etc. it would not be necessary.

    In my opinion, they should just let you pick 3 passives from a mass list so that we can play whatever race we really want (not the one that best suits the role). - this is not in their best interest though as race change tokens would be near unnecessary

    I agree with this. I don't mind each race having a pool of different passives for different roles each with a different flavor. It doesn't need to be cookie-cutter but it would be nice if this were a possibility.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Nox_Noir
    Nox_Noir
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    Wow! this post is from 2014 and is pointing out largely the same things that are STILL beeing criticised about racial balance nowadays...
  • Marabornwingrion
    Marabornwingrion
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    Please mods finish this necromancy :D
  • rafaelcsmaia
    rafaelcsmaia
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    Post Necromancy Awards 2018 has its winner
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Just noticed, that this is from 2014. When I saw "When stamina builds are finally made viable..." I wanted to start a rant here.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Jamini
    Jamini
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    necromancer_by_bogdan_mrk-d9biu3b.jpg

    Portrait of @Vance.Frost , 2/6/2018, Colorized



    "Adapt. or Die."
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I just want to say I had an Argonian Templar before it was cool.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • kookster
    kookster
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    Dont mess with my Orc's. They are too good for stamSorc. Synergies with stamSorc speed. And I run troll king so the health recovery synergies with that too.
    Potato Pact - PC NA
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