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Shimmering shield vs Dragon Scales, simple compare after reading pattchnotes where i was hoping...

  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    Kilandros wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Cries wrote: »
    Lmao these people actually saying wings is better than shimmering shield :D

    Welcome to the forums, where people spew bulls#@! to not have their cheese taken away.

    lol, I main a dk, not defengin my "cheese'. Wings is definitely more useful, primarily because its so easy to use offensively and can easily turn pressure around.

    Said no one who actually mains a DK ever.

    my bad, forgot for a second,i'm supposed to follow the bandwagon a QQ about how dk's are dead.
  • Anethum
    Anethum
    ✭✭✭✭
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Shimmering also won't reflect the dot from poison inject, or any secondary effects from projectiles whereas wings will.

    Hm successfully reflected injection, vampare bane and hidden blade reflect also secondary effects.
    Pardon, was wrong about that, idk when they adjusted this.
    But, not matter in general.
    3780 mana cost, any buffs, 4 projectiles cap... vs 3 18k shields which gives major heroism and absorb projectiles. And cost 678 mana
    @Anethum from .ua
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

    Just because I play to counter groups doesnt mean I'm in one. I don't find the skill worth running 90% of the time, that's how useful it is and there isn't much more to say about it then that.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Arobain
    Arobain
    ✭✭✭✭
    one deflects, one absorbs
  • BohnT
    BohnT
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

    Just because I play to counter groups doesnt mean I'm in one. I don't find the skill worth running 90% of the time, that's how useful it is and there isn't much more to say about it then that.

    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here
    Edited by BohnT on February 1, 2018 11:31PM
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BohnT wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

    Just because I play to counter groups doesnt mean I'm in one. I don't find the skill worth running 90% of the time, that's how useful it is and there isn't much more to say about it then that.

    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Doesn't negate range any better than wings or Harness and doesnt cost any more than Harness and does less in defense. Ulti is nice but it isn't everything. It's not even what usually kills me.


    By the way, just cause I don’t want to QQ with you, I shouldn’t post here?!? LOL that’s rich.
    Edited by Maura_Neysa on February 1, 2018 11:56PM
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • RinaldoGandolphi
    RinaldoGandolphi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    BohnT wrote: »



    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Not disagreeing with you about the Major Heroism which either needs its duration reduced, or changed to a flat value(6 ultimate once every 6 seconds)

    However, saying the skill shuts down ranged builds is a bit much.

    Warden is the only class without a gap closer.

    Templars - Toppling Charge
    Dragonknight - Chains
    Nightblade - Ambush
    Sorc - Bolt Escape
    Warden - nothing

    the lack of a gap closer is why Crystallized Shield functions the way it does, else Warden's would just be free AP to ranged builds. Ranged builds are already pretty strong in this game..Mag Sorc has the highest(also most predictable) ranged burst in the game with Mag Nightblade very close behind it(some would say Mag Nightblade has better ranged burst now thanks to Animation cancel friendly Spectral Bow)

    I think ZOS decided not to give Warden's a gap closer, and instead elected to give them a unique defense mechanic against ranged attacks. As i said, the Major Heroism needs to be toned down on Shimmering shield, got no argument from me on that, However the other morph Crystalized Slab could actually use a buff as all it does is toss a 4k ice ball back on every attack that does very low damage, there is really no reason to slot Crystallized Slab over Harness Magicka or another skill...Shimmering Shield needs to be compared seperately with the base morph and Crystalized Slab, both of which are pretty weak currently...its unfair to want a blanket nerf to a skill that would probably not be used at all if it wasn't for the ultimate buff(one that needs to be toned down a bit)

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    Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)

    "Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak

  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BohnT wrote: »



    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Not disagreeing with you about the Major Heroism which either needs its duration reduced, or changed to a flat value(6 ultimate once every 6 seconds)

    However, saying the skill shuts down ranged builds is a bit much.

    Warden is the only class without a gap closer.

    Templars - Toppling Charge
    Dragonknight - Chains
    Nightblade - Ambush
    Sorc - Bolt Escape
    Warden - nothing

    the lack of a gap closer is why Crystallized Shield functions the way it does, else Warden's would just be free AP to ranged builds. Ranged builds are already pretty strong in this game..Mag Sorc has the highest(also most predictable) ranged burst in the game with Mag Nightblade very close behind it(some would say Mag Nightblade has better ranged burst now thanks to Animation cancel friendly Spectral Bow)

    I think ZOS decided not to give Warden's a gap closer, and instead elected to give them a unique defense mechanic against ranged attacks. As i said, the Major Heroism needs to be toned down on Shimmering shield, got no argument from me on that, However the other morph Crystalized Slab could actually use a buff as all it does is toss a 4k ice ball back on every attack that does very low damage, there is really no reason to slot Crystallized Slab over Harness Magicka or another skill...Shimmering Shield needs to be compared seperately with the base morph and Crystalized Slab, both of which are pretty weak currently...its unfair to want a blanket nerf to a skill that would probably not be used at all if it wasn't for the ultimate buff(one that needs to be toned down a bit)

    Now this is an argument I won’t contest, unlike 90% of the post here, this one is actually thought out. If you consider the buff as 1 6s buff though, I don’t even think that is particularly OP. Since most people will break all 3 shields rapidly, but if it was 3 seconds, how much would really change? casting it more often.
    Edited by Maura_Neysa on February 2, 2018 12:09AM
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    noone should be arguing shimmering is crap but...

    I pop shimmering in a 1v4 for example
    • I get hit with hidden blade.. take no damage, still get snared
    • I get hit with flame reach... take no initial damage, still get knocked back, still take dot damage
    • I get hit with poison inject... take no initial damage, still get dot put on me
    • I get hit with snipe... take no initial damage, still take defile
    • I get hit with frag... take no damage (used to still get cc'd but other changes fixed that)
    • I get hit with cripple... still take the dot and still get rooted/snared
    there are more but pretty sure you get the gist by now if you're still reading.

    now I'm in a 1v3 and i pop wings...
    None of the above will affect me... all of the above will return the damage to the player that casts the skill.
    unless i'm mistaken, the number of *projectile* skills that go through wings but shimmering will stop is a resounding 2
    (actually may be 3, i'm not sure about force pulse since they did say that wasn't a projectile but a "beam")

    Shimmering is strong because of the buff (and even that's mostly because stam warden can just line up shalk and DB pretty much at will). In all honesty, warden is pretty much a one trick class on the offensive end, so nerfing shalk or shimmering (in the case of stam) would hit them hard no matter how you do it.

    As a defensive skill / reflect shimmering/crystalline shield is mediocre at best and sustain is outdone or matched by harness on magwarden. In no way is it a better reflect than wings.

    Side note: i'm pretty sure this started out as a "wings costs too much" thread... at this point i'm not even sure anymore.
  • Minalan
    Minalan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    BohnT wrote: »



    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Not disagreeing with you about the Major Heroism which either needs its duration reduced, or changed to a flat value(6 ultimate once every 6 seconds)

    However, saying the skill shuts down ranged builds is a bit much.

    Warden is the only class without a gap closer.

    Templars - Toppling Charge
    Dragonknight - Chains
    Nightblade - Ambush
    Sorc - Bolt Escape
    Warden - nothing

    the lack of a gap closer is why Crystallized Shield functions the way it does, else Warden's would just be free AP to ranged builds. Ranged builds are already pretty strong in this game..Mag Sorc has the highest(also most predictable) ranged burst in the game with Mag Nightblade very close behind it(some would say Mag Nightblade has better ranged burst now thanks to Animation cancel friendly Spectral Bow)

    I think ZOS decided not to give Warden's a gap closer, and instead elected to give them a unique defense mechanic against ranged attacks. As i said, the Major Heroism needs to be toned down on Shimmering shield, got no argument from me on that, However the other morph Crystalized Slab could actually use a buff as all it does is toss a 4k ice ball back on every attack that does very low damage, there is really no reason to slot Crystallized Slab over Harness Magicka or another skill...Shimmering Shield needs to be compared seperately with the base morph and Crystalized Slab, both of which are pretty weak currently...its unfair to want a blanket nerf to a skill that would probably not be used at all if it wasn't for the ultimate buff(one that needs to be toned down a bit)

    The shield on shimmering doesn’t respect battle spirit. So it’s twice as large as harness on average, and bigger than a harness/hardened stack.

    On a STAMINA character.

    I’ll let that one just sit out there.

  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    Minalan wrote: »
    BohnT wrote: »



    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Not disagreeing with you about the Major Heroism which either needs its duration reduced, or changed to a flat value(6 ultimate once every 6 seconds)

    However, saying the skill shuts down ranged builds is a bit much.

    Warden is the only class without a gap closer.

    Templars - Toppling Charge
    Dragonknight - Chains
    Nightblade - Ambush
    Sorc - Bolt Escape
    Warden - nothing

    the lack of a gap closer is why Crystallized Shield functions the way it does, else Warden's would just be free AP to ranged builds. Ranged builds are already pretty strong in this game..Mag Sorc has the highest(also most predictable) ranged burst in the game with Mag Nightblade very close behind it(some would say Mag Nightblade has better ranged burst now thanks to Animation cancel friendly Spectral Bow)

    I think ZOS decided not to give Warden's a gap closer, and instead elected to give them a unique defense mechanic against ranged attacks. As i said, the Major Heroism needs to be toned down on Shimmering shield, got no argument from me on that, However the other morph Crystalized Slab could actually use a buff as all it does is toss a 4k ice ball back on every attack that does very low damage, there is really no reason to slot Crystallized Slab over Harness Magicka or another skill...Shimmering Shield needs to be compared seperately with the base morph and Crystalized Slab, both of which are pretty weak currently...its unfair to want a blanket nerf to a skill that would probably not be used at all if it wasn't for the ultimate buff(one that needs to be toned down a bit)

    The shield on shimmering doesn’t respect battle spirit. So it’s twice as large as harness on average, and bigger than a harness/hardened stack.

    On a STAMINA character.

    I’ll let that one just sit out there.

    you missed (or decided to ignore) the entire point. yes it will negate a ranged burst, but it doesn't negate ANY secondary effects such as dots. if you're 1v3ing all snipe and c-frag spammers go shimmering 100%, any melee build, anyone not using snipe or relying on just crystal frag spam, or really ANY other setup and you're better off with harness
    shimmering is significantly limited in its damage mitigation to just stopping ranged burst.
  • Savos_Saren
    Savos_Saren
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    BohnT wrote: »



    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Not disagreeing with you about the Major Heroism which either needs its duration reduced, or changed to a flat value(6 ultimate once every 6 seconds)

    However, saying the skill shuts down ranged builds is a bit much.

    Warden is the only class without a gap closer.

    Templars - Toppling Charge
    Dragonknight - Chains
    Nightblade - Ambush
    Sorc - Bolt Escape
    Warden - nothing

    the lack of a gap closer is why Crystallized Shield functions the way it does, else Warden's would just be free AP to ranged builds. Ranged builds are already pretty strong in this game..Mag Sorc has the highest(also most predictable) ranged burst in the game with Mag Nightblade very close behind it(some would say Mag Nightblade has better ranged burst now thanks to Animation cancel friendly Spectral Bow)

    I think ZOS decided not to give Warden's a gap closer, and instead elected to give them a unique defense mechanic against ranged attacks. As i said, the Major Heroism needs to be toned down on Shimmering shield, got no argument from me on that, However the other morph Crystalized Slab could actually use a buff as all it does is toss a 4k ice ball back on every attack that does very low damage, there is really no reason to slot Crystallized Slab over Harness Magicka or another skill...Shimmering Shield needs to be compared seperately with the base morph and Crystalized Slab, both of which are pretty weak currently...its unfair to want a blanket nerf to a skill that would probably not be used at all if it wasn't for the ultimate buff(one that needs to be toned down a bit)

    I hate to throw this out there- but Warden does have a gap closer. But you have to be with allies in order to get close the gap.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Nature's+Grasp

    Before you say "That's a lame attempt at a gap closer..." Remember this: an mDK's only form of expedition requires an enemy to be near. So they still have to waddle up to get close to a fight. ZoS hasn't thought these skills out at all.

    I'd say these two abilities don't make sense at all. A Warden gap closer that only gets you close to allies and a DK major expedition that you can only get AFTER you've finally reached the fight.

    Edit: I'd propose a compromise to make Wardens and DKs happy. Put minor expedition on a DK's wings and allow one morph of Nature's Grasp to pull you to an enemy for a more powerful HoT. ;)


    Edited by Savos_Saren on February 2, 2018 3:04AM
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Cries wrote: »
    Lmao these people actually saying wings is better than shimmering shield :D

    Welcome to the forums, where people spew bulls#@! to not have their cheese taken away.

    lol, I main a dk, not defengin my "cheese'. Wings is definitely more useful, primarily because its so easy to use offensively and can easily turn pressure around.

    Lol 4 light attacks in response to your wingflap sure is a pressure being turned around. At the cost of 3k and more magicka depending on cost reduction for what, little amount of reflectable skills the game have? While shimmering refunds its costs in some way and generates ults for real heavy attack of healing ult? I'd take shimmering over wings all days.

    Reflect is costly for what it does and it doesn't even do much damage since your stats seem to determine the damage of the returned projectile still. Also, even if you do reflect some projectiles you will still get the secondary effects such as major defile from templar.

    I've ran magicka warden with shimmering and harness, nearly impossible for ranged builds to kill me because I could keep both up and have no strain on my magicka.
    Edited by IZZEFlameLash on February 2, 2018 5:39AM
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • Anethum
    Anethum
    ✭✭✭✭
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    noone should be arguing shimmering is crap but...

    I pop shimmering in a 1v4 for example
    • I get hit with hidden blade.. take no damage, still get snared
    • I get hit with flame reach... take no initial damage, still get knocked back, still take dot damage
    • I get hit with poison inject... take no initial damage, still get dot put on me
    • I get hit with snipe... take no initial damage, still take defile
    • I get hit with frag... take no damage (used to still get cc'd but other changes fixed that)
    • I get hit with cripple... still take the dot and still get rooted/snared
    there are more but pretty sure you get the gist by now if you're still reading.

    scales 5,4 times more expensive and give no major heroizm. just think about this number man.
    and warden is much more tanky than dk in pvp due to real healing so can eat the dots and defile much more successfull.
    what's the point?
    Edited by Anethum on February 2, 2018 1:06PM
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Bakkagami
    Bakkagami
    ✭✭✭
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Cries wrote: »
    Lmao these people actually saying wings is better than shimmering shield :D

    Welcome to the forums, where people spew bulls#@! to not have their cheese taken away.

    lol, I main a dk, not defengin my "cheese'. Wings is definitely more useful, primarily because its so easy to use offensively and can easily turn pressure around.

    Lol 4 light attacks in response to your wingflap sure is a pressure being turned around. At the cost of 3k and more magicka depending on cost reduction for what, little amount of reflectable skills the game have? While shimmering refunds its costs in some way and generates ults for real heavy attack of healing ult? I'd take shimmering over wings all days.

    Reflect is costly for what it does and it doesn't even do much damage since your stats seem to determine the damage of the returned projectile still. Also, even if you do reflect some projectiles you will still get the secondary effects such as major defile from templar.

    I've ran magicka warden with shimmering and harness, nearly impossible for ranged builds to kill me because I could keep both up and have no strain on my magicka.

    If your wings are just getting taken off by light attacks you're using it wrong. Sitting there spamming wings when nothing is coming at you is obviously not turn any pressure around as you aren't getting pressured in the first place. Pop them when you know a sorc is about to hit a db/meteor + frag combo, a nb is about to hit an incap + merciless combo, or when you're outnumbered and have snipe spammers in the back to deal with, they all just took 9k damage to the face and back off to ward/heal allowing you to start pressuring them. If you're mindlessly using the skill that's not on it, that's on your inability to use it appropriately. In that case they can lower the cost all you want and you'd still just be wasting resources using it ineffectively. I run a stam dk and virtually never run outta magicka for wings/igneous shield/weapons.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

    Just because I play to counter groups doesnt mean I'm in one. I don't find the skill worth running 90% of the time, that's how useful it is and there isn't much more to say about it then that.


    Thats how useful it is for you. Unfortunately for you, i said people playing solo and want to be competitive. Its clear that you dont belong in that category.

    Ball groups will not come and bomb one person unless that person is zergsurfing with 50 people. And people will not put multiple different sieges to target one person unless you've been 1vXing the group for ages and they will follow you to the end of the map just to kill you. And even in that case siege shield still makes no sense. No one playing solo wants to stay in a small circle. The more you talk, the more i doubt about you playing solo. Seems like you are zergsurfing with 50 people in keep fights and you call that solo. Its not.

    I am sorry but no competitive solo player is going to waste a slot for siege shield when he can have major heroism.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    ✭✭✭
    You can't compare two skills in isolation from the package. If they just made all skills available to all people, or offered comparable skills in out of class abilities then yes you could do that. As it stands you can't because it is the total package that a class offers and not an individual skill. This means passives, this means secondary effects, the whole kit'n'kaboodle. This error crops up so often in most people's analysis and I find it tiresome. I'd also like to add that the ice reflect might actually be a better morph than the ultimate one. They both have their uses.
    Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on February 2, 2018 1:23PM
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
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    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
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    <And plenty more>
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    You can't compare two skills in isolation from the package. If they just made all skills available to all people, or offered comparable skills in out of class abilities then yes you could do that. As it stands you can't because it is the total package that a class offers and not an individual skill. This means passives, this means secondary effects, the whole kit'n'kaboodle. This error crops up so often in most people's analysis and I find it tiresome. I'd also like to add that the ice reflect might actually be a better morph than the ultimate one. They both have their uses.

    As I wrote several times. And in the main messege - Its only example of extremly bad unbalanced design. And we need not only 1 skill change, but a huge amount of them. Not only Dive dodgeable, but skills rework. Also, rework snares (at least standart them as major, minor etc to not stuck to 0 or almost mobility), purge/purify, also rework cost poisons. Many skills and passives, not 1 Dive or 1 shimmering
    @Anethum from .ua
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    diplomatt wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    noone should be arguing shimmering is crap but...

    I pop shimmering in a 1v4 for example
    • I get hit with hidden blade.. take no damage, still get snared
    • I get hit with flame reach... take no initial damage, still get knocked back, still take dot damage
    • I get hit with poison inject... take no initial damage, still get dot put on me
    • I get hit with snipe... take no initial damage, still take defile
    • I get hit with frag... take no damage (used to still get cc'd but other changes fixed that)
    • I get hit with cripple... still take the dot and still get rooted/snared
    there are more but pretty sure you get the gist by now if you're still reading.

    scales 5,4 times more expensive and give no major heroizm. just think about this number man.
    and warden is much more tanky than dk in pvp due to real healing so can eat the dots and defile much more successfull.
    what's the point?

    LMAO cause 33% of your missing health is peanuts. 75% of damage done? Worthless to have an offensive heat. 100% of AOE damage done? No need of something like that in a Xv1.The fact that DKs ALSO still have Major Mending or that theirs is on demand? Don't forget that passive that lets DKs block 10% more damage than any other class. Yep, they've got no tankiness in PvP.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

    Just because I play to counter groups doesnt mean I'm in one. I don't find the skill worth running 90% of the time, that's how useful it is and there isn't much more to say about it then that.


    Thats how useful it is for you. Unfortunately for you, i said people playing solo and want to be competitive. Its clear that you dont belong in that category.

    Ball groups will not come and bomb one person unless that person is zergsurfing with 50 people. And people will not put multiple different sieges to target one person unless you've been 1vXing the group for ages and they will follow you to the end of the map just to kill you. And even in that case siege shield still makes no sense. No one playing solo wants to stay in a small circle. The more you talk, the more i doubt about you playing solo. Seems like you are zergsurfing with 50 people in keep fights and you call that solo. Its not.

    I am sorry but no competitive solo player is going to waste a slot for siege shield when he can have major heroism.

    As I said it situational. If I'm soloing a keep it is most definitely handy. If I'm 3v zerg then I'll go with gaurd. Scroll runner hunting, destructive clench. I use Shimmering mostly in larger groups for more bomber countering via permafrost. Absolutely solo, I'd rather have another damage skill, than another defensive skill.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    @Bakkagami , correct me if I'm wrong but the last time I used wings it didn't prevent me from getting DOTs or status effects like major defile (most notably it just reflects the snipe projectile). I can't remember exactly, but I recall the snares getting through wings from things like crippling grasp, etc.

    Shimmering shield won't reflect DOTs or status effects either, but it will not reflect things like knockbacks or CCs.

    I'll agree that someone spamming wings is a dumb player because you're really just trying to create damage windows where you reflect a frag, will proc, or some other big projectile for unexpected burst. People can play around wings if they're just keeping them up all the time and eventually that magDK is going to be unable to sustain wings while being offensive.

    Having recently decided to stop maining stamwarden after I had to jump from the stamDK ship (RIP my sweet prince) I can tell you that as a magNB I just have to leave any warden running shimmering shield alone. Who cares if they're snared/have DOTs/get defiled because I can't produce any offensive pressure through a shield that is essentially free for them to keep up - sure, those secondary effects would matter if I'm trying to Xv1 someone. My only real option as a solo player is to just disengage or waste resources in the hope that they play like an idiot and leave me big offensive windows. If a warden using shimmering shield is halfway competent all they have to do to avoid dying to my range is to literally just refresh SS on cooldown.

    You can't refresh wings on cooldown and have the same success.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    ✭✭
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    diplomatt wrote: »
    to see a Real balance changes...

    Shimmering shield cost 2432 mag on my stam warden (bosmer)) in heavy or medium, return mana from projectiles (astronomic number 18216 of damage from projectile absorbed...and 578 mag from every projectile), it gives Major heroism for 6 seconds each time without coldown...So u need only 698 (2432-578*3) magicka to cast it...698 mana cost hell...

    And, for example we have Dragon scales on dk, the can reflect 4 projectiles...but not force pulce or warden's dive...give u while active +12% of healing recieved from passive and nothing else...cost on stamina dk is 3780 mana...

    @ZOS_Wrobel , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Dk's Dragon scales are 5,4 times more expencive than Warden's Shimmering Shield, which in addition saves from no matter how big projectiles and gives u Unique extremly usefull buff... What the hell is going on? Do u really think that Dive is only thing need to be fixed...Really?

    Let’s see...
    Shimmering has a Damage cap, Wings do NOT have any damage cap That astronomical number is across all 3, by the way it scales with health, it’s a lot more then 18000 on my tank.
    Shimmering gives you mag WHEN a shield is broken. No broken shield, no returned magic. Play smarter not harder.
    Major Herisom last 6 sec, brake one every 6 seconds and it’s an 18 second buff. Break them all at once and it’s 6 Seconds.
    Harness Magicka cost 1000 magic more and returns 1500 magic more and works against everything. It’s a way better skill then Shimmering.
    Wings returns 35% more damage to the attacker (or 23 second resistance buff,) Other morph of Shimmering returns flat amount, and Shimmering returns nothing at all. So wings gets people to back off. Shimmering means people have to be smart enough to back off on their own when it’s up.

    The only place where Shimmering might be an issue is Stamden, but it’s also really the only defense they have. Forest ulti, once, but then you’re dead. Otherwise the Warden is a lot like NB with plenty of trickle in heals, but no burst, and no cloak.

    Yes shimmering is obviously balanced if you never attack the warden.

    Same as wings, DoTs and melee attacks, and unlike Harness, those will all hit full force instead of against a Damage Shield.
    krathos wrote: »

    This has to be a troll post. Shimmering is hands down the single strongest defensive skill in the entire game.

    I run a tank in Cryodiil, I occasionally slot it, buts it’s really a crap skill. Living Vines and Arctic Wind are both way more defensive. Shimmering requires constant recasting under pressure meaning you can’t turn the battle back against them. Corruption Pollon is also amazing for turning the tide back again. All Shimmering is good for is ulti gen, you’re wasting time and resources if you’re casting it more often then 6 seconds after the last shield breaks. I usually have something like Siege Shield slotted instead.

    Wings are not the same thing. Not even close. Secondary effects go through wings, there are abilities that can be absorbed but cant be reflected and wings have a very high cost.

    Shimmering is not even close. You can spam it even on a stamina warden, it shuts down ranged builds much easier than wings cause of the way absorb works and even in the worst case scenario where u absorb like a couple of light attacks, you still get the arguably best buff in the entire game. Spamming it literally helps your sustain. Thats beyond idiotic.

    Im sorry but calling such a skill crap means you are either running in a huge zerg or you simply dont understand PVP. Ive been in fights i never even thought i could possibly win/survive and i shouldnt win/survive but still came on top just by spamming shimmering. Literally, just spamming it. Spamming that skill means you are not dying, you are not running out of resources and you are building up ult like nuts which can most certainly turn the fight around. I cant even fathom how you even say that major heroism cant turn the fights. The game right now revolves around ults. Even the worst class in the game can perform good with good ult regen. Warden ult regen sometimes feels like emp ult regen.

    You are making ridiculously absurd statements and trying to present one of the best skills in the game if not the best as crap.

    I play solo and on consol, Major Heroism is the ONLY reason to run it. Absorb is defensive, reflect a offensive, as far as absorbs go its so, so, Harness is far better, Defensive Posture is closer to even with. But forcing your opponent to go on the defensive, or for better, never needing to go on the defensive yourself is far far better. Thats what DK and Sorcs have, their heals and defense come from continuing to stay on the offensive. Thats why reflect is a far better skill

    I highly doubt about you playing solo. Solo players usually dont talk about counter bombs, siege shields but whatever. Major heroism is not the only reason to run it. But major heroism is enough of a reason to run any skill in the game no matter how bad that skill is. Thats how powerful major heroism is. Major heroism and crap cannot be in the same sentence. Major heroism alone beats wings. There is not a single person in this game who plays solo and wants to be competitive and calls shimmering crap.

    Im not gonna keep repeating the same things over and over again. Keep believing that shimmering is crap.

    Just because I play to counter groups doesnt mean I'm in one. I don't find the skill worth running 90% of the time, that's how useful it is and there isn't much more to say about it then that.


    Thats how useful it is for you. Unfortunately for you, i said people playing solo and want to be competitive. Its clear that you dont belong in that category.

    Ball groups will not come and bomb one person unless that person is zergsurfing with 50 people. And people will not put multiple different sieges to target one person unless you've been 1vXing the group for ages and they will follow you to the end of the map just to kill you. And even in that case siege shield still makes no sense. No one playing solo wants to stay in a small circle. The more you talk, the more i doubt about you playing solo. Seems like you are zergsurfing with 50 people in keep fights and you call that solo. Its not.

    I am sorry but no competitive solo player is going to waste a slot for siege shield when he can have major heroism.

    As I said it situational. If I'm soloing a keep it is most definitely handy. If I'm 3v zerg then I'll go with gaurd. Scroll runner hunting, destructive clench. I use Shimmering mostly in larger groups for more bomber countering via permafrost. Absolutely solo, I'd rather have another damage skill, than another defensive skill.

    Ye ye shimmering is crap. Id take siege shield any time as well
    Edited by pieratsos on February 2, 2018 5:10PM
  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    BohnT wrote: »



    Just stop it. The skill negates ranged builds completely while costing almost nothing and it gives you the strongest buff in the game.
    It's just crazy amounts of free ultimates.
    If you don't see the power of this skill you shouldn't talk about balance here

    Not disagreeing with you about the Major Heroism which either needs its duration reduced, or changed to a flat value(6 ultimate once every 6 seconds)

    However, saying the skill shuts down ranged builds is a bit much.

    Warden is the only class without a gap closer.

    Templars - Toppling Charge
    Dragonknight - Chains
    Nightblade - Ambush
    Sorc - Bolt Escape
    Warden - nothing

    the lack of a gap closer is why Crystallized Shield functions the way it does, else Warden's would just be free AP to ranged builds. Ranged builds are already pretty strong in this game..Mag Sorc has the highest(also most predictable) ranged burst in the game with Mag Nightblade very close behind it(some would say Mag Nightblade has better ranged burst now thanks to Animation cancel friendly Spectral Bow)

    I think ZOS decided not to give Warden's a gap closer, and instead elected to give them a unique defense mechanic against ranged attacks. As i said, the Major Heroism needs to be toned down on Shimmering shield, got no argument from me on that, However the other morph Crystalized Slab could actually use a buff as all it does is toss a 4k ice ball back on every attack that does very low damage, there is really no reason to slot Crystallized Slab over Harness Magicka or another skill...Shimmering Shield needs to be compared seperately with the base morph and Crystalized Slab, both of which are pretty weak currently...its unfair to want a blanket nerf to a skill that would probably not be used at all if it wasn't for the ultimate buff(one that needs to be toned down a bit)

    The shield on shimmering doesn’t respect battle spirit. So it’s twice as large as harness on average, and bigger than a harness/hardened stack.

    On a STAMINA character.

    I’ll let that one just sit out there.

    you missed (or decided to ignore) the entire point. yes it will negate a ranged burst, but it doesn't negate ANY secondary effects such as dots. if you're 1v3ing all snipe and c-frag spammers go shimmering 100%, any melee build, anyone not using snipe or relying on just crystal frag spam, or really ANY other setup and you're better off with harness
    shimmering is significantly limited in its damage mitigation to just stopping ranged burst.

    Oh stop it already. Just stop. The warden-tatoes defending this skill getting ridiculous.

    You get the biggest buff in the game, tons of free ultimate, magicka return, a 20K projectile damage shield, and PERMANENT immunity to 90% of my DPS.

    I’m not going to kill you with curse, resto staff light attacks, or pets, so I just streak off. There is NOTHING I can do to you. There is NO counter-play. The shield will NEVER come down, you won’t run out of magicka recasting it like Sorcs. You want to compare it to harness? I can knock harness off in one good hit (battle spirit 9K shield) and you’ll take the follow up burst. It also won’t save you from destructive reach CC.

    If shimmering is not over the top then nothing ever will be. We might as well hand you guys cheat engine and infinite back to back meteors. It’s almost THAT bad. But ZOS is too busy raking in Morrowind profits from everyone who wants to be super-powered to see it.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno please tell Wrobel to get his head out of his stubborn backside on this one, and fix this skill already! Something has to go. The shield size (battle spirit). Heroism. The magicka return. Something. Consider splitting some of these benefits to the other morph. And FFS battle spirit the shield already.
    Edited by Minalan on February 2, 2018 5:21PM
  • Kilandros
    Kilandros
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    ✭✭✭
    This thread has seriously become cringeworthy
    Invictus
    Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
    Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
    Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
    Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.

    DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
  • Anethum
    Anethum
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    LMAO cause 33% of your missing health is peanuts. 75% of damage done? Worthless to have an offensive heat. 100% of AOE damage done? No need of something like that in a Xv1.The fact that DKs ALSO still have Major Mending or that theirs is on demand? Don't forget that passive that lets DKs block 10% more damage than any other class. Yep, they've got no tankiness in PvP.

    Random words? I really don't understand anything here before "fact"of dk's major mending.

    "Fact" about 2,5 seconds of Major Mending which dk get for 4050 mana ingneous. And dk have no stamina burst heal. Only 1 option - Rally on 2-hander ( which makes impossible to have counter to snares against u in heavy armor). In medium u have, but any help from "tanky" 10% block cost.
    And 1 mana "burst" heal - Green dragon, which cost, attention! 4320 mana - did u tryed ever to manage on stamina character 2 skills each 4k+ cost in pvp? And GDB heal u for 4k if someone already damaged u for 12k before. 6k if damaged 18k (at this point as usual opponent actively Executing u already).
    But warden gets Major Mending automatic from passive at 40% of health.
    Thats all what we need to know about tankiness.

    4k skill for 2,5 sec Major mending on dk. Dk have no burst stamina heal.
    0 cost 3 sec Major mending on warden. Warden have burst stamina heal (which is stamina, cheap and stronger than green dragon in even case when u lose 90% of your health on dk). also he have green lotus (2700 mana each 20 seconds...), which grants u healing from every light or heavy atack + give u 10% sweapon critical.
    Warden is more tanky in every scenario except pure blocking without damaging opponent.
    Absolutly no challenge.
    And with this Major heroizm, and defence against range atacks, and resourses (netch, passives)...

    Man, just stop writing *** if u don't know mathematics, logic and classes.
    @Anethum from .ua
  • krathos
    krathos
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    Again, for all the wardens who want to trade shimmering for wings please do everything you can to get ZOS to make that change. DKs will even give you elder dragon passive absolutely free!
    Flapjack Palmdale
    <ANIMOSITY>

    Grand Overlord - Magicka Dragonknight
  • Irylia
    Irylia
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol
    :popcorn:
    Founder: Animosity (Best Guild NA + EU)

    Youtube - TeAiry

    Alpha Sorc:
    Irylia - DC sorcerer rank 46
    Iraliia - EP sorcerer rank 41

    The two time 3rd place Legend duelist (16k hp all divines btw)
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