Bow, left behind again.

Toc de Malsvi
Toc de Malsvi
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How did Vollley and Arrow Spray get overlooked in the changes for ground placed AOE's and spammable AOE's?

Arrow Spray was already weaker than almost every direct damage AOE. Now it remains dodgeable, while other weapon lines with similar skills ie whirlwind, impulse, cleave are all undodgeable.

Caltrops, liquid lightning, and blockade become unblockable as well as undodgeable but Volley is ignored?

Are there some monster Bow builds destroying cyrodil with Volley? Or Arrow Spray? Bombard spam hasn't been a thing in over a year.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood
Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
Templar's are evil..
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Yeah, agreed.

    If there was one build archetype that needed some way to deal with permarollers (besides ganking them from stealth), that'd be bow.

    Nothing more frustrating than fighting a medium armor build that you can't do anything against if they have enough stam regen to never run out - they'll dodge all your snipes, all your bombards, even your poison injections...

    Previously bow warden had a way around this with the pigeons, not anymore though. I feel bad for all the 2-3 bow wardens in Cyrodiil.


    Bombard should be undodgeable like other AoEs.
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    I'm working on a stamDK, and acid spray is a key skill on its set... saddly it isn't viable with those changes.

    Better to go with the classic s/b stamDK... because, you know, pigeons and holes..
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
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    That led to the wrong tendencies
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    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    I'm working on a stamDK, and acid spray is a key skill on its set... saddly it isn't viable with those changes.

    Better to go with the classic s/b stamDK... because, you know, pigeons and holes..

    I wouldn't say it can't work. I run a pretty successful bow/bow build on console. However it provides yet another disadvantage when bow builds are already at a disadvantage. Also it runs completely against their stated changes and combat reasoning.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    shinikaze wrote: »
    Made additional changes to the API to better restrict the ability for addons to display combat events prior to your character being impacted.
    <- this is a buff for bow.

    One thing i would like is the ability to hold heavy attack back for bow.

    Should be, I haven't been able to test it. But I've heard rumors that it didn't actually fix anything.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • shinikaze
    shinikaze
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    shinikaze wrote: »
    Made additional changes to the API to better restrict the ability for addons to display combat events prior to your character being impacted.
    <- this is a buff for bow.

    One thing i would like is the ability to hold heavy attack back for bow.

    Should be, I haven't been able to test it. But I've heard rumors that it didn't actually fix anything.

    bummer
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Yeah, agreed.

    If there was one build archetype that needed some way to deal with permarollers (besides ganking them from stealth), that'd be bow.

    Nothing more frustrating than fighting a medium armor build that you can't do anything against if they have enough stam regen to never run out - they'll dodge all your snipes, all your bombards, even your poison injections...

    Previously bow warden had a way around this with the pigeons, not anymore though. I feel bad for all the 2-3 bow wardens in Cyrodiil.


    Bombard should be undodgeable like other AoEs.

    We were 3? Havent met bow warden for 5 months in Cyro :(

    There is still hope. Arrow Spray is expensive AF, but if made undodgeable (which will happen... like I dont see any reason it is dodgeable now than they simply forgot - again - bow exists) it could be pretty cool replacement for cutting dive.
    PC | EU | AD
  • Didgerion
    Didgerion
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    They nerfed gap closers - isn't that a bow buff?
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Didgerion wrote: »
    They nerfed gap closers - isn't that a bow buff?

    Bow has 10m range CC. Gapclosers arent really issue. On the contrary, I welcome everyone that decidec to fight me closer than having to run to them :|

    (plus you usually dodge the gap closer damage anyway)
    Edited by SodanTok on January 30, 2018 10:27PM
    PC | EU | AD
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    Plenty of bow players in battlegrounds.

    But I'd like a some bow buffs to make it a much better primary weapon.

    Clearly volley and poison injection are really strong... with the API changes Snipe gets a lot better in PVP.

    I have heard people say that draining shot is actually good when comboed with Ballista for burst.

    Ballista is great in PVE, but the other morph is completely useless.

    So in the end.. its really only arrow spray that needs a buff, which also makes the AS bow better.
  • ForsakenSin
    ForsakenSin
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    Just a question to all of the bow players , ( im magica based and used bow for a limited time so my knowledge is limited ) anyway my question is , do you think it would be good to have Arrow Quiver with different effects on it ? ie ice arrow that would slow down enemy , shock arrow causes Concussion , Fire arrow burning and poison arrow dose extra poison over time .

    This would increase the damage and effect of the bow users what are your thoughts ?
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    Just a question to all of the bow players , ( im magica based and used bow for a limited time so my knowledge is limited ) anyway my question is , do you think it would be good to have Arrow Quiver with different effects on it ? ie ice arrow that would slow down enemy , shock arrow causes Concussion , Fire arrow burning and poison arrow dose extra poison over time .

    This would increase the damage and effect of the bow users what are your thoughts ?

    Sounds like enchantments to me?
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Just a question to all of the bow players , ( im magica based and used bow for a limited time so my knowledge is limited ) anyway my question is , do you think it would be good to have Arrow Quiver with different effects on it ? ie ice arrow that would slow down enemy , shock arrow causes Concussion , Fire arrow burning and poison arrow dose extra poison over time .

    This would increase the damage and effect of the bow users what are your thoughts ?

    It would be neat, but I'm not sure how you fit it into bow skill line. Perhaps to replace Long Shots.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Didgerion
    Didgerion
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    Didgerion wrote: »
    They nerfed gap closers - isn't that a bow buff?

    I'm sorry I missed the nerf where gap closers don't work? Or hava shorter range?

    Losing damage on gap closers is hardly a buff, or helpful to bow. I have to close the gap regardless just so I can use the bow skill line CC(which is also dodgeable/blockable/reflectable). Losing gap closer damage is just common sense, gap closers shouldn't be a primary source of damage.

    This game isn't balanced around kiting anyways. "Kiting" in ESO is really just running away to try and not die. And you generally have to start running away long before gap closer range if you actually want to get away. There is no effective way to truly "kite" like in other MMO's. Which isn't necessarily a problem, it is just the world that exists for eso.



    Many strong builds will drop gap closer due to the damage nerf.
    That means strong builds will have to make to you on their feet. And that will give you time to react and retreat or will give you time to land few more shots.
    It truly is a buff to long range builds - I don't get how you don't see it.
  • killimandrosb16_ESO
    killimandrosb16_ESO
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    Just a question to all of the bow players , ( im magica based and used bow for a limited time so my knowledge is limited ) anyway my question is , do you think it would be good to have Arrow Quiver with different effects on it ? ie ice arrow that would slow down enemy , shock arrow causes Concussion , Fire arrow burning and poison arrow dose extra poison over time .

    This would increase the damage and effect of the bow users what are your thoughts ?

    concussion would be scatter shot, fire arrow isnt that volley or is it endless hail? poison arrow is poison injection...so ye they already exist. And you can optimize the damage each do by different gear/skills (eg. Morag Tong for poison, sheer venom etc...)
  • Azurya
    Azurya
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    look at any place throughout Tamriel,
    you see 95% players with staves, 4,9% with 2Handers, 0,9%S&B and if you are lucky you spot one with a bow.

    bow-players cauzed many deaths in cyrodil,
    and therefor it got nerfed below playable
    now, more people die in cyrodill due to eye of something(Destrostab-ulti)
    proximity detonation (war-skillline)
    etc

    just nobody calls for a nerf of that, because all are forced to use it now, since there are no altenatives anymore!

    logic, but weird
    Edited by Azurya on January 31, 2018 10:08AM
    Fear not, for I am watchful. You have been chosen.
    Azura, the Daedric Prince of Moonshadow, Mother of the Rose, and Queen of the Night Sky


    Hail to Sithis, blood's drop on blade's edge.
    Before you, nothing. Behind you, the Void.
    Catalyst, agitator, many-fanged maw.
    Whisper your need to the Scales.
    — Inscription found on an Argonian blade
  • DoonerSeraph
    DoonerSeraph
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    Bow needs a spammable (I suggest magnum shot, remove the cc and self knockback and reduce the cost and increase the range, or just lower silver shards cost), and adjusting on long shots passive (having to be far away from your group to do damage is silly, just increase the damage of all skills with range higher than 20m). That would help a lot on PvE.

    And for PvP, yes, adjusting the bow skills for the dodge and block rules (dont forget about Toxic Barrage, its a channel so it shouldnt be dodgeable, the cost is too high, locks you out of skills and its reflectable).
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    I agree on arrow spray. But volley being blockable is kind of a logical thing, isn't it? I mean the arrows are coming and keep coming in from above, it's not just a ground placed effect. Also, if you are running it in your build, it's an excellent way to run blocktards out of stamina. I have heard/seen blocktards panicroll out of the volley AoE, spending valuable stamina.
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Didgerion wrote: »
    Didgerion wrote: »
    They nerfed gap closers - isn't that a bow buff?

    I'm sorry I missed the nerf where gap closers don't work? Or hava shorter range?

    Losing damage on gap closers is hardly a buff, or helpful to bow. I have to close the gap regardless just so I can use the bow skill line CC(which is also dodgeable/blockable/reflectable). Losing gap closer damage is just common sense, gap closers shouldn't be a primary source of damage.

    This game isn't balanced around kiting anyways. "Kiting" in ESO is really just running away to try and not die. And you generally have to start running away long before gap closer range if you actually want to get away. There is no effective way to truly "kite" like in other MMO's. Which isn't necessarily a problem, it is just the world that exists for eso.



    Many strong builds will drop gap closer due to the damage nerf.
    That means strong builds will have to make to you on their feet. And that will give you time to react and retreat or will give you time to land few more shots.
    It truly is a buff to long range builds - I don't get how you don't see it.

    No person using bow and trying to accomplish something more than Xv1 and one shotting shieldless sorcs on horse is using bow at long range.
    There are no skills for that other than snipe spamming.
    Your CC is 10m.
    Your Arrow Spray is 20m.

    Also nobody will suddenly drop gap closer because of 20% less damage. Builds that require gap closer will still have it and builds that do not already dont have it.

    Yes, gap closer damage nerf is buff to long range builds. Small buff to people that play from range and could not dodge the gap closer before (or it was not worth it because they were magicka build). People werent dying to gap closer damage, people were dying to gap closer snare that allows others without gap closer to catch up. Nothing changed about that.
    If I see someone gap closing to me I am still going to dodge roll it. Negating any benefit from this buff. Because 9 out of 10 it is better than eat it. Even the better players that have the idea to use undodgeable dawnbreaker after gap closer to counter my dodge roll miss me half the time.

    And nothing changed to bow, since it is not long range weapon and people using it at long range are usually dying just to dots because they are incapable to even grasp what is happening in this game. Not want t imply they all are bad, but majority of them are.
    Edited by SodanTok on January 31, 2018 10:29AM
    PC | EU | AD
  • Fallewarrior
    Fallewarrior
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    Bow is by far one of the most populair weapons in the game since endless hail is the strongest aoe dot in the game..
    And poison injection is a really strong st dot.
    Dont talk *** please.

    Even in pvp a bow is seen on most stam builds.
    Azurya wrote: »
    look at any place throughout Tamriel,
    you see 95% players with staves, 4,9% with 2Handers, 0,9%S&B and if you are lucky you spot one with a bow.

    bow-players cauzed many deaths in cyrodil,
    and therefor it got nerfed below playable
    now, more people die in cyrodill due to eye of something(Destrostab-ulti)
    proximity detonation (war-skillline)
    etc

    just nobody calls for a nerf of that, because all are forced to use it now, since there are no altenatives anymore!

    logic, but weird
    Hocus Pocus Grim Focus
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    PC/EU
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Bow is by far one of the most populair weapons in the game since endless hail is the strongest aoe dot in the game..
    And poison injection is a really strong st dot.
    Dont talk *** please.

    Even in pvp a bow is seen on most stam builds.
    Azurya wrote: »
    look at any place throughout Tamriel,
    you see 95% players with staves, 4,9% with 2Handers, 0,9%S&B and if you are lucky you spot one with a bow.

    bow-players cauzed many deaths in cyrodil,
    and therefor it got nerfed below playable
    now, more people die in cyrodill due to eye of something(Destrostab-ulti)
    proximity detonation (war-skillline)
    etc

    just nobody calls for a nerf of that, because all are forced to use it now, since there are no altenatives anymore!

    logic, but weird

    Sure, it's used - but as an off bar.

    That is to say, those aren't actual "bow builds", ranged stamina builds - they're melee builds using the bow to boost their DPS while they spend most of the time on melee bar, hitting target in melee range, using melee skills.

    As main bar... very few people run bow.


    From PvP perspective, removing the [snip] combat alerts helps bow quite a bit, but mostly ganking & NBs who used snipe from cloak. In open combat bow still suffers from its obvious issues:
    • Super weak vs dodge roll, as literally every skill you have can be dodged (gl killing some clown with 4k stam regen spamming dodge roll non-stop).
    • Still no viable ranged CC to pressure people. Scatter Shot range needs to be increased, period. Alternatively they could fix the Off Balance stun with bow, it's broken somehow and not always working with mini-weaves or heavy attacks.
    • Lack of proper kiting tools/area denial skills for Templar, Warden & DK.
    Edited by DDuke on January 31, 2018 12:06PM
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Jowrik
    Jowrik
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    Bow is by far one of the most populair weapons in the game since endless hail is the strongest aoe dot in the game..
    And poison injection is a really strong st dot.
    Dont talk *** please.

    Even in pvp a bow is seen on most stam builds.

    Please. Obviously you haven't read the couple of posts at the top and are just responding to the title.
    They're talking mostly about bow as a main weapon.
    Nightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
    PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Just a question to all of the bow players , ( im magica based and used bow for a limited time so my knowledge is limited ) anyway my question is , do you think it would be good to have Arrow Quiver with different effects on it ? ie ice arrow that would slow down enemy , shock arrow causes Concussion , Fire arrow burning and poison arrow dose extra poison over time .

    This would increase the damage and effect of the bow users what are your thoughts ?

    concussion would be scatter shot, fire arrow isnt that volley or is it endless hail? poison arrow is poison injection...so ye they already exist. And you can optimize the damage each do by different gear/skills (eg. Morag Tong for poison, sheer venom etc...)

    Sort of although I think the poster was going for more of a similar setup to what destro has. Also the fire damage morph of Volley no longer exists both do physical. Also while Morag Tong and Sheer Venom both synergize well with bow skills and increase your damage, if you want to be more than a pure ganker or zerg surfer you cannot afford to run either. Neither benefit your sustain or improve your healing, bow is already significantly short on weapon damage and running bow means you have to run 5/5/1 or 5/3/2/1 which limits your stat pool. To survive and be remotely competitive you need to run 5 set bonuses that increase your mitigation, healing, or raw stats for damage.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Didgerion
    Didgerion
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    SodanTok wrote: »
    Didgerion wrote: »
    They nerfed gap closers - isn't that a bow buff?

    Bow has 10m range CC. Gapclosers arent really issue. On the contrary, I welcome everyone that decidec to fight me closer than having to run to them :|

    (plus you usually dodge the gap closer damage anyway)

    Yeah that's a point too - before the nerf you had to roll-doge the gap closer as it hurt too much - now you can do something else more useful instead - like placing a trap for example - and then you roll-dodge the Dizzy Swing and then use your CC skill, then place another trap while they gap-close.

    And I think it is not a good idea to nerf gap closers and buff range skills in the same iteration.


  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Death recaps post 3.3:
    —————————
    Legolas Snipe 8K
    XX_LegolAS_XX Snipe 8K
    Legolass Snipe 7K
    LLLegolas Snipe 8K
    The_Real_Legolas Snipe 7K

    You guys are going to be fine without Miats addon.


  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Minalan wrote: »
    Death recaps post 3.3:
    —————————
    Legolas Snipe 8K
    XX_LegolAS_XX Snipe 8K
    Legolass Snipe 7K
    LLLegolas Snipe 8K
    The_Real_Legolas Snipe 7K

    You guys are going to be fine without Miats addon.

    That made me chuckle a bit.


    I remember the early days when there actually were players named "Legolas" everywhere running around with a bow. They mysteriously disappeared at some point though.

    Psst, this is how you Snipe, none of that 8k ***: https://youtu.be/R63jwNgGvk4 :p
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Am I the only one who finds this funny concerning the topic at hand?
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)

    ;)
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DDuke wrote: »
    Minalan wrote: »
    Death recaps post 3.3:
    —————————
    Legolas Snipe 8K
    XX_LegolAS_XX Snipe 8K
    Legolass Snipe 7K
    LLLegolas Snipe 8K
    The_Real_Legolas Snipe 7K

    You guys are going to be fine without Miats addon.

    That made me chuckle a bit.


    I remember the early days when there actually were players named "Legolas" everywhere running around with a bow. They mysteriously disappeared at some point though.

    Psst, this is how you Snipe, none of that 8k ***: https://youtu.be/R63jwNgGvk4 :p

    Rip, but dat crit chance
    Edited by JobooAGS on January 31, 2018 6:53PM
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