The maintenance is complete and the PTS is now back online. The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test!
The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
Ok let's have a realistic discussion about MagDK nerfs
-
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@DDuke I have so much spare stam since I don't really block that I now use sprint as a defense mechanism. Lord knows I can't sustain healing/wings/general mag, after all the changes.
There was no reason for the battle roar change, it hurt pve, it hurt pvp. Its just not good, and now block glyphs have been nerfed there is no reason it shouldnt be changed back.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.3 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
I can't even respond to this because my hand is to busy holding my face at how ignorant and wrong this post is
I mean... Did you even READ my post and my points I clearly gave that showed you my supporting information to back up my claims?Edited by Nelson_Rebel on January 29, 2018 9:56PM4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
Fear is melee range and doesn't deal 3k'ish dmg in PvP+root the target, Rune Cage has a clunky delay on it and also deals no damage when people CC break it.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »The resource return on standards is neglible because only one side using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore, You must have forgot that nerf small detail
I just wrote to you that I don't care about standard. If it's weak, by all means buff it - I don't use it so it probably is pretty weak or doesn't fit a high dmg destro/resto build.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
Leap returns 5750.
125 Costx46(resource per ultimate point)=5750.
110 Cost(Stam Morph)x46=5060
I guess you do have difficulties with mathematics.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »You are continually wrong and dodgy
...and I've lost count on how many times I've had to correct you - I'm done here.Edited by DDuke on January 29, 2018 9:57PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke I have so much spare stam since I don't really block that I now use sprint as a defense mechanism. Lord knows I can't sustain healing/wings/general mag, after all the changes.
There was no reason for the battle roar change, it hurt pve, it hurt pvp. Its just not good, and now block glyphs have been nerfed there is no reason it shouldnt be changed back.
Well, that's exactly why we should speak of "changes" and not "nerfs".
My destro/resto DK has absolutely no problems with magicka sustain thanks to Elemental Drain, and I know I'd be getting unbreakable CCs if it wasn't for Helping Hands & Battle Roar stam returns.
I run zero block cost reduction, stam regen etc etc on my build - zero.1 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
Fear is melee range and doesn't deal 3k'ish dmg in PvP+root the target, Rune Cage has a clunky delay on it and also deals no damage when people CC break it.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »The resource return on standards is neglible because only one side using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore, You must have forgot that nerf small detail
I just wrote to you that I don't care about standard. If it's weak, by all means buff it - I don't use it so it probably is pretty weak or doesn't fit a high dmg destro/resto build.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
Leap returns 5750.
125 Costx46(resource per ultimate point)=5750.
110 Cost(Stam Morph)x46=5060
I guess you do have difficulties with mathematics.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »You are continually wrong and dodgy
...and I've lost count on how many times I've had to correct you - I'm done here.
Fear melee range OH what a coincidence. So is petrify at a 8 meter range, and it's single target, and it DOESN'T apply minor maim either
Ok so I hit two whips and then what? Wait another minute and a half to try and sustain again?
You have no idea how a dk actually plays with relying on a gap closing ult to both Sustain, kill, and gap close.
3 different needs but we have no way to balance them.
GoodbyeEdited by Nelson_Rebel on January 29, 2018 10:01PM6 -
Savos_Saren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
The resource return on standards is neglible because only one still using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore.
You must have forgot that nerf small detail
Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
You are continually wrong and dodgy
While I commend you for asking for DK buffs- I gotta correct you on the “not building ultimate while standard is up” part. I can 100% confirm that you can build ultimate while Standard is up. I do it, frequently, in PVP and PVE.
On rare occasions, you can get a Leap off as soon as the Shifting Standard expires.Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.
PC NA AD
Savos Saren0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Savos_Saren wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
The resource return on standards is neglible because only one still using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore.
You must have forgot that nerf small detail
Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
You are continually wrong and dodgy
While I commend you for asking for DK buffs- I gotta correct you on the “not building ultimate while standard is up” part. I can 100% confirm that you can build ultimate while Standard is up. I do it, frequently, in PVP and PVE.
On rare occasions, you can get a Leap off as soon as the Shifting Standard expires.
I'm quite sure one of the morphs doesn't allow ult to build.
If I'm wrong so be it, But I'm rather sure something bugged out or was changed by ZoS specifically not allowing ult regen0 -
Put✭✭✭DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
Yeah, please stop talking before I get cancer.
If you haven't noticed by now, we are talking about the base class itself. ANY class can run cancer and be considered OP. Any class can endlessly sustain (it's called an Argonian)
Skill line DPS for stam DK's is very lackluster, relying heavily on weapon lines for everything says enough about a class.
You saying that we 'must play a certain style' literally proves how cornered and closed this class has become.
I don't really care what builds you play, but I keep heavy armour/S&B away from all of my characters because I actually take pride in being able to play the game instead of holding block, so when we look at medium armour stam DK's, we see a completely dead class.
Sets need nerfs, not classes. Classes should be the most powerful and important factor in a build, not things like seventh legion and (even worse) black rose/fury from previous patches.7 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭•Make flames of oblivion an actual AoE for 5 meters. Similar to stam sorcs hurricane.
We've been asking for this ever since they took it away years ago. They just don't care
PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~5 -
Put✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »and the stam dk to a lesser extent
Found the guy who's never played Stam DK
I have, and I understand the issues.
But stam dk does have better mobility with access to working gap closers, and executes in both the 2h skill line, and the bow skill line.
I'm under no allusions they are fairing a lot
better but that do have a different set of issues with relying solely on dizzy swing and leap combo's
Having just leveled a Mag DK, and having mained a Stam DK for 2 and a half years I can tell you honestly that Mag DK is not OP, but not in a bad place compared to Stam DK. It needs some slight buffs. While Stam Dk is literally broken. It's the worst class currently by a large margin in PVP, and it's bad at every facet of PVP.
I can agree here, but there are far better stam
sets that synergize well. Better than any mag dk set at least. Like 7th legion and hunting's setup with bloodspawn. Insanely tanky, huge damage,
and good ult spam with leap combo's
But you're right that passives for stam morphs need a rework as well.
Neither dk side is doing good at all in pvp right now
I'm guessing you mean hundings, and I disagree strongly. I ran hundings for a year up until Morrowind, and let me tell you that you will not sustain for more than 15 seconds, the set was good when low regen/high max stat was favoured for DK's but battle roar does nothing for stam builds anymore. You will be on the defensive for most of the fight so trying high pressure just wont work anymore in anything more than a 1v1.
Bone pirate is a must for medium DK's post morrowind.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
The resource return on standards is neglible because only one still using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore.
You must have forgot that nerf small detail
Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
You are continually wrong and dodgy
While I commend you for asking for DK buffs- I gotta correct you on the “not building ultimate while standard is up” part. I can 100% confirm that you can build ultimate while Standard is up. I do it, frequently, in PVP and PVE.
On rare occasions, you can get a Leap off as soon as the Shifting Standard expires.
I'm quite sure one of the morphs doesn't allow ult to build.
If I'm wrong so be it, But I'm rather sure something bugged out or was changed by ZoS specifically not allowing ult regen
It was ninja fixed as it was rolled to live. Its fine I tested.DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
Yeah, please stop talking before I get cancer.
If you haven't noticed by now, we are talking about the base class itself. ANY class can run cancer and be considered OP. Any class can endlessly sustain (it's called an Argonian)
Skill line DPS for stam DK's is very lackluster, relying heavily on weapon lines for everything says enough about a class.
You saying that we 'must play a certain style' literally proves how cornered and closed this class has become.
I don't really care what builds you play, but I keep heavy armour/S&B away from all of my characters because I actually take pride in being able to play the game instead of holding block, so when we look at medium armour stam DK's, we see a completely dead class.
Sets need nerfs, not classes. Classes should be the most powerful and important factor in a build, not things like seventh legion and (even worse) black rose/fury from previous patches.
Ftr black rose was never bad. 180 equivalent of each regen and 150 wp/sp In 5 heavy. The regen got higher with more heavy but you would sacrifice undaunted and stuff from the other skill lines.
Never understood the hate. 7th was so much stronger.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Put✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
The resource return on standards is neglible because only one still using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore.
You must have forgot that nerf small detail
Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
You are continually wrong and dodgy
While I commend you for asking for DK buffs- I gotta correct you on the “not building ultimate while standard is up” part. I can 100% confirm that you can build ultimate while Standard is up. I do it, frequently, in PVP and PVE.
On rare occasions, you can get a Leap off as soon as the Shifting Standard expires.
I'm quite sure one of the morphs doesn't allow ult to build.
If I'm wrong so be it, But I'm rather sure something bugged out or was changed by ZoS specifically not allowing ult regen
It was ninja fixed as it was rolled to live. Its fine I tested.DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
Yeah, please stop talking before I get cancer.
If you haven't noticed by now, we are talking about the base class itself. ANY class can run cancer and be considered OP. Any class can endlessly sustain (it's called an Argonian)
Skill line DPS for stam DK's is very lackluster, relying heavily on weapon lines for everything says enough about a class.
You saying that we 'must play a certain style' literally proves how cornered and closed this class has become.
I don't really care what builds you play, but I keep heavy armour/S&B away from all of my characters because I actually take pride in being able to play the game instead of holding block, so when we look at medium armour stam DK's, we see a completely dead class.
Sets need nerfs, not classes. Classes should be the most powerful and important factor in a build, not things like seventh legion and (even worse) black rose/fury from previous patches.
Ftr black rose was never bad. 180 equivalent of each regen and 150 wp/sp In 5 heavy. The regen got higher with more heavy but you would sacrifice undaunted and stuff from the other skill lines.
Never understood the hate. 7th was so much stronger.
Black rose was ran with shuffle, that's why it was OP along with the fact that heavy should NEVER have more sustain than medium. Also wrath was the most stupid passive ever invented
0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
The resource return on standards is neglible because only one still using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore.
You must have forgot that nerf small detail
Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
You are continually wrong and dodgy
While I commend you for asking for DK buffs- I gotta correct you on the “not building ultimate while standard is up” part. I can 100% confirm that you can build ultimate while Standard is up. I do it, frequently, in PVP and PVE.
On rare occasions, you can get a Leap off as soon as the Shifting Standard expires.
I'm quite sure one of the morphs doesn't allow ult to build.
If I'm wrong so be it, But I'm rather sure something bugged out or was changed by ZoS specifically not allowing ult regen
It was ninja fixed as it was rolled to live. Its fine I tested.DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
Yeah, please stop talking before I get cancer.
If you haven't noticed by now, we are talking about the base class itself. ANY class can run cancer and be considered OP. Any class can endlessly sustain (it's called an Argonian)
Skill line DPS for stam DK's is very lackluster, relying heavily on weapon lines for everything says enough about a class.
You saying that we 'must play a certain style' literally proves how cornered and closed this class has become.
I don't really care what builds you play, but I keep heavy armour/S&B away from all of my characters because I actually take pride in being able to play the game instead of holding block, so when we look at medium armour stam DK's, we see a completely dead class.
Sets need nerfs, not classes. Classes should be the most powerful and important factor in a build, not things like seventh legion and (even worse) black rose/fury from previous patches.
Ftr black rose was never bad. 180 equivalent of each regen and 150 wp/sp In 5 heavy. The regen got higher with more heavy but you would sacrifice undaunted and stuff from the other skill lines.
Never understood the hate. 7th was so much stronger.
Ah that would explain my confusion there thank you.Savos_Saren wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
•Fossilize was nerfed in range to 9 meters
And is still the strongest single target CC in the game.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Battle Roar nerfed our resource return to our max stay which is the only one that matters, and FURTHER reduced it to only 46 points per ultimate point for each resource
Is you max stamina less than 11 500? That's what using Standard returns to you. Using Leap returns 5750 stamina, I doubt your max stam pool is that low, considering that even a naked character with zero attributes to stamina has 7958 stamina.
If your resource pool was below 26K before the changes, your sustain for that resource has been buffed. This was stated fairly clearly in the Morrowind patch notes:Earthen Heart
Battle Roar: This passive ability now restores an equal amount of Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you use an Ultimate ability, and the amounts are now based on your character level instead of your Max Resource(s).
Developer Comments:This will be a buff for each particular resource if your maximum is below 26,000, and a reduction if it is above. This will generally result in a buff to overall resources restored, but a reduction to the specific resource you are stacking.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•Helping hands was a flat nerf to return
Umm, no. Not unless you're a stam DK.
See, Helping Hands used to return 4% of your maximum stamina and now it returns a flat 990.
Which means if you're at, say, 12k maximum stamina, it now returns 990, where as with the previous passive it would return only 480.
Quite a "nerf".Nelson_Rebel wrote: »•you left out both standard nerf, and off balance and power lash nerf
Fairly sure I detailed Off Balance in my first post, but I guess you didn't understand it.
If you think Standard could use buffs, cool. I'm indifferent.
I won't dignify the rude part of your post with a reply. If you think mDK is underperforming on Live (or PTS), you know where to find me - I gladly to prove it wrong
Best CC??
Have you never seen fear? lmao or rune cage which is the EXACT same as fossilize except has
even BETTER range nearly 40 meters in PVp
The resource return on standards is neglible because only one still using standards are people who don't know that you can no longer build ultimate while standard is up anymore.
You must have forgot that nerf small detail
Leap only returns about 4.7 k . And since dk's skills cost the most that's exactly two whips and gone lmao. Sure it returns stam but that's fine with a single block in pvp lolol you have never played a real mag dk
You are continually wrong and dodgy
While I commend you for asking for DK buffs- I gotta correct you on the “not building ultimate while standard is up” part. I can 100% confirm that you can build ultimate while Standard is up. I do it, frequently, in PVP and PVE.
On rare occasions, you can get a Leap off as soon as the Shifting Standard expires.
I was correct and wrong at the same time lol
it appears it was ninja fixed on the ult regen with standard up0 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Any chance of having a "realistic discussion" evaporated after you wrote "nerfs" on your post.
You must have an extremely narrow view or a bad understanding of mathematics to consider cooldown reduction from 7(Fossilize CD)-5s(Off Balance CD) to 3 seconds a "nerf", or the skill no longer consuming Off Balance when you use Power Lash a "nerf".
Battle Roar? Yeah, what a "nerf"... buffed your secondary resource generation and most likely the health you got from casting an ultimate. Any resource pool less than 26K saw an increase of returned resources after that change.
Same with Helping Hands, any mDK with below 25K stam pool (i.e. all of them) now has a better stamina sustain thanks to that "nerf".
I'd propose you start using the word "changes", because "nerf" doesn't describe most of the points you raise.
Was a nerf to stam DK...PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables1 -
What if... Coagulating Blood/Green dragon blood kept its original heal but restored X amount magicka/stam over X amount seconds (similar to Betty Netch)
Engulfing Flames has increased range
Enemy’s effected by searing strike/venomous clawsare applied with minor magicka/stam steak similar to elemental drain
If you don’t agree you don’t agree but little adjustments can go a long way.
0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I think the Embers nerf is a bit harsh. I don't like undodgeable stuff (and I'm very glad that ZOS makes many things dodgeable again) but the heal from Dks is tied to Embers and it's not good if parts of your defense can get denied so easily.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I think the Embers nerf is a bit harsh. I don't like undodgeable stuff (and I'm very glad that ZOS makes many things dodgeable again) but the heal from Dks is tied to Embers and it's not good if parts of your defense can get denied so easily.
It's a cheap skill anyway, I'm sure they'll manage.0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I think the Embers nerf is a bit harsh. I don't like undodgeable stuff (and I'm very glad that ZOS makes many things dodgeable again) but the heal from Dks is tied to Embers and it's not good if parts of your defense can get denied so easily.
It's a cheap skill anyway, I'm sure they'll manage.
This
While it's true embers is our real healing skill, It doesn't unduly bother me. And most of the time no one is trying that hard to just dodge embers0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!
On what planet are Magicka DKs underperforming in PvP? Cause it sure ain't Nirn. 1v1 they are practically unkillable by Sorcs, at the very least they can stretch out the fight for a long time. Good DKs don't let that happen, though. They just CC you and clobber you with a Leap.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you can’t simply revert the Battle Roar passive since there are now so many cheap ultimates in the game, most notably Leap. IIRC Battle Roar gave 78 resource (might be off though, search didn’t yield a conclusive result) of the highest stat before the change - you’d look at close to 10k return on Leap.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Trashs1✭✭✭... and u dont talk to all the cost reduction buffs a few patches ago???
mag dk is fine in pvp.. look at all that nervs, how overperforming where this class a year ago??
the only one who needs a buff is stamdk in pvp
btw dont care about rota smashing pveDolche des Königs (DDK); EuPC, DC, Sotha Sil,4 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Realistically I understand these nerfs - and yes, making your skills dodgeable are nerfs, specially when considering that getting a double whip in PTS is extremelly rare even with bash animation cancels - it is a way to balance the game. Make embers dodgeable and blockable? Sounds perfect to me, I see no issue what-so-ever in that.
The true problem arrises when we put mDK in perspective. mDK passives haven't been updated in ages, they barely have room in the actual meta, they've lost their identity (and by identity I mean: the reason why people picked this class over others in the first place) which is the capability to hold their ground with the nerf to heavy armor, battleroar and blocking. In sum, the problem is nerfing a class that literally can't take any more nerfs, we NEED changes, we NEED to be updated to the current state of the game.
Yes, ZoS, I know this isn't a balancing patch. But the changes you made to mDK, even if they're not focused on what you guys call 'balance' they do affect the overall state of mDKs. I truly believe favorable winds will blow in the future, on the next balancing patch. It's impossible for ZoS not to have realized how outdated mDKS (and I'll dare say stamDKs too) are. But how long will that take? 6 months? Are we supposed to be the underdogs of solo open world pvp and pve for this long? At this point we're not receiving changes, we're receiving plain out nerfs.
Just wanted to touch this as well
You helped raise points that I was having trouble articulating as well. Much appreciated friend1 -
lazerlaz✭✭✭You're delusional to think mDK underperforms in PVP.
My suggestion, UP YOUR FREAKING SKILL!
Everyone keeps crying about nerfs or asks for nerfs. Why don't you look in the mirror instead. That's where the problem is.3 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭You're delusional to think mDK underperforms in PVP.
My suggestion, UP YOUR FREAKING SKILL!
Everyone keeps crying about nerfs or asks for nerfs. Why don't you look in the mirror instead. That's where the problem is.
OR you could, you know, actually provide a rational response to refute or counter claim that has supporting information to back up your...opinion.. I suppose I'll call it.
I gave clear concise information with my supporting information. Maybe you shouldn't post if you have nothing to contributeEdited by Nelson_Rebel on January 30, 2018 1:59PM4 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »DK's are underperforming in PVP?????
Where's is this coming from? Are people playing different versions of the game? What is the basis for stating that DK's are underperforming?
Of all the options for endless sustain and mitigation DK's are still number 1.
Ok, they MIGHT be under performing for YOUR playstyle but they certainly arn't in the greater scheme. You guys need to keep in mind that if ZOS caves into your tears and gives DK's unwarranted buffs then all those guys + gals that are already running around solo 1 v Xing will only get even stronger.
If the class doesn't suit your playstyle then don't play it, play one that does
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!
On what planet are Magicka DKs underperforming in PvP? Cause it sure ain't Nirn. 1v1 they are practically unkillable by Sorcs, at the very least they can stretch out the fight for a long time. Good DKs don't let that happen, though. They just CC you and clobber you with a Leap.
Eh. You have only one reflectable skill. You are ranged. You can streak from roots, you have unblockable cc, and shields that can outdo all of a dks dots... and you can't kill a dk.
Ahaha do you want a purge too? How can you not beat a dk as a sorc, sure turtle and stretch the fight, sure but with range and streak you shouldn't die to them either.... and u dont talk to all the cost reduction buffs a few patches ago???
mag dk is fine in pvp.. look at all that nervs, how overperforming where this class a year ago??
the only one who needs a buff is stamdk in pvp
btw dont care about rota smashing pve
DK got some small cost reduction, after losing cp, taking hits to roar and having roar affected by siphoner.
Since 1.6 they have been the worst class for ow. Except for the small time you are mentioning when desert rose and heavy was stronger, the same time as immortal pet sorc, malutards and proctatos. That is long gone DK needs a heavy buffing.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.5 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭These nerfs brings mag dk more in line for pvp to where it should be. Welcomed changes.Edited by Hutch679 on January 30, 2018 2:13PM2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »You're delusional to think mDK underperforms in PVP.
My suggestion, UP YOUR FREAKING SKILL!
Everyone keeps crying about nerfs or asks for nerfs. Why don't you look in the mirror instead. That's where the problem is.
OR you could, you know, actually provide a rational response to refute or counter claim that has supporting information to back up your...opinion.. I suppose I'll call it.
I gave clear concise information with my supporting information. Maybe you shouldn't post if you have nothing to contribute
Its just your opinion. In every single patch you are repeating the same things, mDK is dead, mDK is dead, mDK is dead. Ok we get it. According to you mDK is dead and useless.4