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Why non-CP content pisses me off
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br0steen✭✭✭✭No cp exposes the imbalances, aka proc sets overperforming.
But yea otherwise it's l2p1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »In no CP do non-vet players get stats buffed?
Yes. Same as it does all over. Stats buff go down as you level0 -
murdomac101✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »In no CP do non-vet players get stats buffed?
Yes. Same as it does all over. Stats buff go down as you level
Ok cool thank you.
Separately on CP - is 400 enough to play and not feeling like you're everone else punch bag?0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't like no-CP because I don't want to give in to ZOS's unwillingness to address the issue of power creep with their CP system. Battlegrounds launched without CP. I take that as an indication that ZOS knows CP has problems. CP campaigns get closed and no-CP campaigns remain nearly empty, so queues get longer for the existing CP campaigns.
I feel like I'm being herded down the easy road for ZOS to simply remove their endgame progression rather than fix it.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »murdomac101 wrote: »In no CP do non-vet players get stats buffed?
Yes. Same as it does all over. Stats buff go down as you level
Ok cool thank you.
Separately on CP - is 400 enough to play and not feeling like you're everone else punch bag?
Before they changed the CP scaling, 300 was considered good enough. I'm not sure where it is now but it probably really depends on how you are setup. Obviously; a capped CP will have an advantage; but it should be a bit smaller now than before.0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I only play no-CP because I'm sub 630 CP. CP grinding is a B. I've quit the game for long periods of time because of the CP system... I can't play with my friends in Cyrodiil because of it.Edited by akray21 on August 1, 2017 2:16PM1
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »The reality is Zenimax has been dropping the ball on balance ever since thieves guild and the later patches - and no-CP PvP is where this is the most obvious. It's just a silly little playground where people blow each other up with whatever overpowered toys (gear/abilities) ZOS throws their way, and without CP to help offset the power creep said toys are even more dominant.
It's not a fun and engaging PvP, and the people saying no-CP PvP requires more skill are just trying to pat their own backs. Procs, destro ulti, soul assault (vs stamina builds), s&b ulti, resto ulti, resource poisons, to name just a few things. If you use any of the mentioned things you've instantly got a huge advantage over people that don't. Skill takes a backseat to gear and slotted abilities (even more so than in CP PvP)
This is coming from a guy who used to love and play nothing but no-CP PvP when it was just introduced (with Thieves Guild). There's just been so much cancer introduced to the game that it's impossible for no-CP PvP to really be an engaging experience at this point.
I'm sure people will get offended when you dare suggest no-CP isnt the skillful paradise they think it is, but whatever. I'll just keep dominating BG matches on my procblade, and then switch to the next FOTM overperforming spec after that gets nerfed (and I highly doubt HotR will nerf it enough)Thunderknuckles wrote: »I have yet to try battle grounds. Just came back after several years of being gone. After reading some of the posts here it's even more clear to me why OWPvP in ESO is a turn off to so many. The CP gap is, obviously, monumental between lvl 10 and CP630. I mean, it's one shotsville for anyone below about CP 300 (it seems). I just got my main to CP 167 and was routinely 2 shotted by 630's in Imperial City.
What people who love to utterly crush other players who have no hope of a fair fight don't ever get in any MMO in existence ever is that ...this...is....not....fun....for.....them....and if it's not fun they'll quit doing. Sure, you'll get a very few people who will put up with that for months till they get the required lvl, gear, stats, whatever but most won't and eventually it'll just be you and your few buddies running around looking for someone to lawlstomp.
Gonna give battlegrounds a try and hope it's better. I love PvP much more then PvE, but there has to be a fighting chance.
Hopefully you find what youre looking for in no-CP PvP. If anything gear and specific abilities are way more dominant than anything else in no-CP PvP, so you won't be able to escape having to farm for gear or grind to unlock said abilities.
In no-CP PvP the outcome of a fight is going to be largely pre-determined already based on what you and your opponent are wearing and/or have slotted, so keep that in mind
What. CP is the power creep. Imo the game, pvp wise, would be much better off if cp was disabled in every campaign. Now, I'm not saying that in its current state that no cp is better than cp. I'm saying cp should go away in all pvp, then balance changes should be made from there. The cp system offers way too much. I understand that would upset a lot of players, but it would be better for thr overall health of the game.
There is power creep in CP, but also in sets, skills and consumables. While CP will increase overall stats even further, they also diminish the effects of other factors of power creep. Depends on the player which environment they like better.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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Got to love when the first answer nails the /thread.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭...It's one shotsville for CP630's in PVP too just because you have max CP doesn't make you invincible , low CP's need to suck it up and just get on with it, every CP630 out there was a CP10 at some point and to get to CP300 now is so quick, we have people in the guild who only play in the evening and they have gone from no CP to 400's in a couple of months. Make sure you do your random day dungeon each day when you are enlightened and you will go rocketing up.
With respect, that is precisely the attitude I was talking about. The majority of players simply won't wait for 60 days to finally become competitive. Then again, ESO players may surprise me. Being one and two shotted the entire time you're PvP'ing (for two straight months) is not entertaining for most people and they will walk away from it in most games. Water's wet, fire's hot, and 2+2 = 4 and that's just the way that is. PvP should not be about who has the best gear. At least it shouldn't make too much of a difference. Now, if it really is a learn to play issue on someone's part then that's a different thing. If, however, your toon is only going to amount to nothing more than target practice for much better geared players for weeks on end.... then that's just crappy design.
Star Wars TOR actually has some of the most balanced PvP out there. Well, until end game where if you don't have top end gear you'll get smoked over and over. Till then it's actually fun (They break PvP up into brackets). I've mostly quit because I can't play till late in the evening and by then queue wait times on even the most populated servers goes waaaaaay up.
Anyway, my basic point is is that if it's not fun for people they'll just quit. I haven't had a chance to try BG's yet so I can't give an experiential opinion on it.
Edited by Thunderknuckles on August 1, 2017 10:40PM1 -
Crom_CCCXVI✭✭✭✭✭CP is actually for sissies
20 min 1 v 1's where no one dies, some sheild stacking sorc kiting around a rock
or a 40 man Zerg.. Sounds great.
ZOS should have gotten rid of CP all together... and made people play in Non CP where 75% of the fights don't end in a draw.
and I have 748 CP right now,..... it just suck, only most people are sheep and afraid to play in a campaign where they might actually die.Edited by Crom_CCCXVI on August 1, 2017 10:37PM3 -
elijafire✭✭✭I hate non-CP play. I just do. I would wait seven hours in queue for a CP campaign before I stepped foot in the epic fail that is non-CP pvp. And I won't touch battlefields other than trying to get some achievements...and feeling that I have to commit to play that I hate to get my event rewards pissed me off SO MUCH...ugh.
It took me a while to figure out why non-CP content is toxic. At first I was inclined to buy into the argument that players become reliant on Champion Points...that it's just an L2P issue. But then I started to realize that's not the issue at all. It's not that CPs are a handicap for lesser skilled players...it's that non-CP content utterly breaks the game.
CPs have been in the game for over 2 1/2 years. During that time, every ability and class balance ZOS has made has been done under the CP system. If they consider amping DK damage or NB resistance, they do so taking into account the CP math. The resulting balance is far from perfect...but it's something that a lot of time and effort has been put into. In CP pvp, Viper's Sting hits hard enough to...well...sting, but it's damage is offset by red tree CPs and other factors.
Move into a non-CP area, and damage and resistance all occurs with absolutely zero thought to balance. There are winners and losers...some abilities perform off-the-charts well (like Vipers Sting) while some become duds. Class balance is tossed out the window. The problem there is that balance in the current meta has been attempted through abilities, gear and CPs. Non-CP content removes some the equation, but not all, so if your class overcame their weaknesses via abilities or sets you're ok, but if it did so via CPs you're utterly screwed. Example...over two years mag sorcs have had their squishiness addressed via wards and heals. They keep these in non-CP content. Nightblades have had their squishiness addressed via defensive CPs...which is lost entirely.
On top of this, I have learned my toon under the CP system. I've set the bars accordingly. I've invested in gear accordingly. I've learned exactly how far my stamblade can cloak without crouching...to the meter. I know when he's pulled his very last attack before his tanks are empty. I know how much damage he's going to take if he jumps off a keep Wall. Go into non-CP content, and none of my gear or abilities work the same. It's extremely uncomfortable gameplay, and it's like learning to play an entirely different game.
I get that some people like non-CP play, and I respect that. I found Azura's Star annoying and pointless, but go crazy if you like it. Enter Morrowind, and all of a sudden ZOS forced all of these non-CP campaigns on us...despite an entire year of zero population in Azura's and the clear customer feedback that PS4 PLAYERS DO NOT WANT NON CP CONTENT. On top of that, I paid for the expansion, and a big chunk of that was battlegrounds. But they've been set entirely to non-CP for no discernible reason. They aren't fun, and feeling locked out of one of the core features has pissed me off so much...I can't even describe.
I'd be fine if CPs went away and the whole game was rebalanced. (Which I don't see happening). I'd be fine if pvp and pve was set to perform more distinctly from one another, which they sort of already do. But I will NOT be forced into imbalanced, horrid non-CP content, and the more ZOS tries to corral me into it the more annoyed I will get, respectfully. And right now I am furious that I have to play battleground content that I HATE to earn my midyear achievements.
It's time for ZOS to strongly consider customer feedback on this issue. Take a look at PS4 NA Azura's population for its entire non-CP run. Take a look at the midyear mayhem populations, with people willing to wait in queue position 400 rather than enter Sotha Sil with a zero wait time, which has become a toxic EP farm server. It's not just me...players are clearly rejecting the concept. It's time for the concept to go the way of vet ranks...so long, farewell, don't let the door hit you on the way out non-cp play.
Cc: @ZOS_GinaBruno
I do agree its utterly redundant and rather silly but to be fair there are plenty of other options.Edited by elijafire on January 28, 2018 12:34AM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SomeCrom_CCCXVI wrote: »CP is actually for sissies
20 min 1 v 1's where no one dies, some sheild stacking sorc kiting around a rock
or a 40 man Zerg.. Sounds great.
ZOS should have gotten rid of CP all together... and made people play in Non CP where 75% of the fights don't end in a draw.
and I have 748 CP right now,..... it just suck, only most people are sheep and afraid to play in a campaign where they might actually die.
Lol bad players are bad with or without CP
Just like good players are good with or without CP.
Relying on low CPs to finish your crew in BGs is the only reason I'm for non CP.0 -
RighteousBacon✭✭✭✭Nightblade are supposed to be squishy...they have tons of burst damage if you build them like most people do, there’s no reason they should be Tanky and burstyEdited by RighteousBacon on January 28, 2018 7:45PM0 -
Vermintide✭✭✭✭CP would be fine if the CP cap was somewhere around 300.
I like the idea of the character customisation they provide; but right now, they don't really do that. By the time you hit 690 you can pour points into every useful tree, and still have plenty spare to dump in the useless ones.
Everyone is OP and it's boring.0 -
None of the Transformers movies were great movies. Even the animated one from the 80s was flawed but great by comparison.IxskullzxI wrote: »@HeathenDeacon I don't buy your reasoning for the non-cp camps being deserted. Mainly because we had like six campaigns on PS4 and they all had healthy competitive play, then the second Azura's went non-CP it had zero bars 24/7. The other campaigns stayed populated. And back then I'd campaign swap with guildies all the time. Once Azura's went no-CP, nobody would go in there.
It's fine to enjoy non-CP pvp. Some people think Transformers 3 is a great movie, lol.
@Solariken Nope, it's not an L2P issue. I played a long time before CPs were introduced...I know how my characters played back then. Like I said, the problem is that since then the Devs have used CPs, gear and ability adjustments to seek balance. When you remove one but not the others the play is all out of whack...which is why it's entirely unpopular. I can respect that some people prefer it, but I don't really like the idea of walling of sections of the game for 1% of players.
Watch your tongue. Transformers 3 was a great movie.
That said; judging non-CP by its population when it first showed up is a bad argument. People hadn't really tried it and then just trying it as a quick hit is a bad idea since they had nerfed a lot of our stats from pre CP and moved them into the CP system. You really need to invest how you play to get the enjoyment out of it. PC Azuras had a healthy population in NA. Even had a very vocal community here on the forums complaining about who zerged and who PvDoored.
Then you have ZOS ignoring the effects of items they created to combat high CP in resource poisons, siege damage, proc sets, etc. then a balance pass in Morrowind that makes resource management even harder in non CP. They have managed to diminish the experience.
I personally prefer the non CP because I still am in the mid 300s for myself, but I could see where those that have the cap would want to use them. Especially after Morrowind.
LOL and yeah Non-CP is great and very much mandatory for the under 50 server. Remember when all the CP farmers came in and made it so every new player hated PVP because they were so over powered it was pointless? Yeah. Zero fun.
and a wee bit off topic but had to respond..the animated Transformers was much better than the movies and those were the worst movies ever of thier kind...except GIJOE and in that case the animated movie was amazing compared to the movies...pardon the geek spasm...Bosmer Wolfrider0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Non-CP is a much more balanced way to run battlegrounds for a number of reasons.
Firstly, under no-cp if you wish to excel at something, you have to give a lot up to do it. If I want to permablock, I lose out on a lot of damage and I have to actually manage my stam. If I go full damage, then I am squishy as heck, and have no regen, and if I want to be able to spam rolls, then I need to invest a lot in order to do that.
Secondly, Time to Kill is reduced in most cases, making for more exciting gameplay. Yes you can get something like 25-30% increased damage from CP's, but you can also get 25-30% damage reduction, add in the extra max stats, along with the stars in the green tree, and it's easy to see why players are harder to kill in a CP system
This is partially why the Battlegrounds meta has shifted so heavily towards tanks and healers, which just drags out games, and sucks the fun from them.
Finally, Build Diversity. Having access to champion points lets you pretty easily cover up a number of weak stats, letting you run the few best in slot sets that exist. In non-cp a lot of the 'trash' sets become pretty useful, as things like recovery become more sought after. In CP I feel forced into running something like 7th Legion and Bone Pirates in order to compete, whereas in non-cp, a set like Fiord's becomes viable.
CP pvp is going nowhere, and you can enjoy it as much as you like in Cyrodil, but Battlegrounds need to be non-cpLord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds2
