Would be cool but unlikely.

ZOS has continued to disappoint me with these changes to armor. Transmutation had great potential to make mastercrafters relevant again - no, they locked it behind accounts.

Transmog/outfitting had similar potential, but again ZOS chose to lock it behind accounts. I honestly think that at this point there is little hope for them opening up crafting and making it more of a social activity. They're catering too much to the solo players if you ask me.

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

ZOS has continued to disappoint me with these changes to armor. Transmutation had great potential to make mastercrafters relevant again - no, they locked it behind accounts.

Transmog/outfitting had similar potential, but again ZOS chose to lock it behind accounts. I honestly think that at this point there is little hope for them opening up crafting and making it more of a social activity. They're catering too much to the solo players if you ask me.

How are they catering to solo players? If anything, this system rewards players who are willing to spend the time hunting down motif pages (i.e. crafters) in order to sell them to solo players who wouldn't otherwise hunt for/buy those motifs WITHOUT the new outfit system. Also, the Transmutation system rewards crafters who can provide research items to non-crafters who'd like to, say, transmute their weapons to Nirnhoned or whatever.

The motif system existed before this and nothing has changed about it. The prices going up is entirely based on player's perceptions. That's a poor argument.

It's catering to solo players because there is no need to interact with anyone else. You research your own traits, craft your own gear, transmute your own traits, and now you transmog your own outfits. Even getting motifs has no interaction - you're just browsing an NPC store.

Where's the social interaction? There is none. It's all catered to the solo player.

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

ZOS has continued to disappoint me with these changes to armor. Transmutation had great potential to make mastercrafters relevant again - no, they locked it behind accounts.

Transmog/outfitting had similar potential, but again ZOS chose to lock it behind accounts. I honestly think that at this point there is little hope for them opening up crafting and making it more of a social activity. They're catering too much to the solo players if you ask me.

How are they catering to solo players? If anything, this system rewards players who are willing to spend the time hunting down motif pages (i.e. crafters) in order to sell them to solo players who wouldn't otherwise hunt for/buy those motifs WITHOUT the new outfit system. Also, the Transmutation system rewards crafters who can provide research items to non-crafters who'd like to, say, transmute their weapons to Nirnhoned or whatever.

The motif system existed before this and nothing has changed about it. The prices going up is entirely based on player's perceptions. That's a poor argument.

It's catering to solo players because there is no need to interact with anyone else. You research your own traits, craft your own gear, transmute your own traits, and now you transmog your own outfits. Even getting motifs has no interaction - you're just browsing an NPC store.

Where's the social interaction? There is none. It's all catered to the solo player.

What? I regularly farm Order of the Hour motifs and sell them to other people -- often AT THEIR REQUEST in zone chat. Demand for motifs will only increase with the outfitting system. Selling/trading motifs to other players is a social activity, whether the transaction occurs via zone chat or guild stores. The system might also encourage players who would have otherwise been uninterested in running trials to do so in order for the motifs -- also a social activity. Furthermore, you can't transmute something without first researching an item. I dunno about you, but I get a LOT of requests in my guilds for research items. Crafting items for research and then selling/gifting them to other players is also a social activity.

EDIT: Also, before people can learn a high tier motif, they have to level up their crafting. What's the cheapest/easiest way to level up crafting, outside of deconstructing random intricate items you find or purchase in guild stores? Hire a crafter to craft you a boatload of items for deconstruction.

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

ZOS has continued to disappoint me with these changes to armor. Transmutation had great potential to make mastercrafters relevant again - no, they locked it behind accounts.

Transmog/outfitting had similar potential, but again ZOS chose to lock it behind accounts. I honestly think that at this point there is little hope for them opening up crafting and making it more of a social activity. They're catering too much to the solo players if you ask me.

How are they catering to solo players? If anything, this system rewards players who are willing to spend the time hunting down motif pages (i.e. crafters) in order to sell them to solo players who wouldn't otherwise hunt for/buy those motifs WITHOUT the new outfit system. Also, the Transmutation system rewards crafters who can provide research items to non-crafters who'd like to, say, transmute their weapons to Nirnhoned or whatever.

The motif system existed before this and nothing has changed about it. The prices going up is entirely based on player's perceptions. That's a poor argument.

It's catering to solo players because there is no need to interact with anyone else. You research your own traits, craft your own gear, transmute your own traits, and now you transmog your own outfits. Even getting motifs has no interaction - you're just browsing an NPC store.

Where's the social interaction? There is none. It's all catered to the solo player.

What? I regularly farm Order of the Hour motifs and sell them to other people -- often AT THEIR REQUEST in zone chat. Demand for motifs will only increase with the outfitting system. Selling/trading motifs to other players is a social activity, whether the transaction occurs via zone chat or guild stores. The system might also encourage players who would have otherwise been uninterested in running trials to do so in order for the motifs -- also a social activity. Furthermore, you can't transmute something without first researching an item. I dunno about you, but I get a LOT of requests in my guilds for research items. Crafting items for research and then selling/gifting them to other players is also a social activity.

EDIT: Also, before people can learn a high tier motif, they have to level up their crafting. What's the cheapest/easiest way to level up crafting, outside of deconstructing random intricate items you find or purchase in guild stores? Hire a crafter to craft you a boatload of items for deconstruction.

What you're talking about is player-driven social interaction, often initiated between players. It's not the same thing. I'm talking about the system being inherently socially-driven - as in, hardcoded to require social interaction to complete (or more accurately, to allow freedom of social interaction to complete). The current systems for transmutation and outfitting don't do this - they are a closed system that requires you to be almost completely self-sufficient. I want the opposite. I want there to be more social interaction in crafting, and for there to be a freedom for players to choose, either to do it themselves or to have someone else to do it for them.

There's hair-splitting, and then there's...well, whatever that response was.

Look. I get it. I'm a crafter too, and sure, I'd welcome the opportunity to craft outfits for people or transmute weapons for them (and get additional payment for my services). What I'm contesting here is the idea that the outfitting and transmutation systems cater to solo players, and the related idea that there is no place for crafters or social interaction in these systems. If you truly believe that crafters do not have a significant role to play in outfitting and transmutation, then you're taking a glass-half-empty approach. I've personally seen requests for researching items increase significantly since transmutation went live -- much as I expect that requests for motif pages and crafted items for deconstruction will increase when outfitting goes live. If you truly want to help people create outfits, don't shed salt because you can't directly do it for them; help them achieve their vision by personally offering them what they need to get there. You have knowledge to impart (don't forget, ESO's crafting system isn't the most intuitive thing when you're wading into it for the first time -- I know I struggled at first, until I turned to others for advice). You can craft items for deconstruction and help them speed up the process of levelling their crafts to 10. You can sell or trade them any motifs you regularly farm.

Honestly, I think the main reason why some crafters (not you, necessarily) are probably up in arms about this is because they can't sell outfits or transmute other players' weapons at a significant profit. Another possible reason is that they're scared that if more people start dabbling with crafting, they'll become obsolete (which is just silly).

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

ZOS has continued to disappoint me with these changes to armor. Transmutation had great potential to make mastercrafters relevant again - no, they locked it behind accounts.

Transmog/outfitting had similar potential, but again ZOS chose to lock it behind accounts. I honestly think that at this point there is little hope for them opening up crafting and making it more of a social activity. They're catering too much to the solo players if you ask me.

How are they catering to solo players? If anything, this system rewards players who are willing to spend the time hunting down motif pages (i.e. crafters) in order to sell them to solo players who wouldn't otherwise hunt for/buy those motifs WITHOUT the new outfit system. Also, the Transmutation system rewards crafters who can provide research items to non-crafters who'd like to, say, transmute their weapons to Nirnhoned or whatever.

The motif system existed before this and nothing has changed about it. The prices going up is entirely based on player's perceptions. That's a poor argument.

It's catering to solo players because there is no need to interact with anyone else. You research your own traits, craft your own gear, transmute your own traits, and now you transmog your own outfits. Even getting motifs has no interaction - you're just browsing an NPC store.

Where's the social interaction? There is none. It's all catered to the solo player.

What? I regularly farm Order of the Hour motifs and sell them to other people -- often AT THEIR REQUEST in zone chat. Demand for motifs will only increase with the outfitting system. Selling/trading motifs to other players is a social activity, whether the transaction occurs via zone chat or guild stores. The system might also encourage players who would have otherwise been uninterested in running trials to do so in order for the motifs -- also a social activity. Furthermore, you can't transmute something without first researching an item. I dunno about you, but I get a LOT of requests in my guilds for research items. Crafting items for research and then selling/gifting them to other players is also a social activity.

EDIT: Also, before people can learn a high tier motif, they have to level up their crafting. What's the cheapest/easiest way to level up crafting, outside of deconstructing random intricate items you find or purchase in guild stores? Hire a crafter to craft you a boatload of items for deconstruction.

What you're talking about is player-driven social interaction, often initiated between players. It's not the same thing. I'm talking about the system being inherently socially-driven - as in, hardcoded to require social interaction to complete (or more accurately, to allow freedom of social interaction to complete). The current systems for transmutation and outfitting don't do this - they are a closed system that requires you to be almost completely self-sufficient. I want the opposite. I want there to be more social interaction in crafting, and for there to be a freedom for players to choose, either to do it themselves or to have someone else to do it for them.

There's hair-splitting, and then there's...well, whatever that response was.

Look. I get it. I'm a crafter too, and sure, I'd welcome the opportunity to craft outfits for people or transmute weapons for them (and get additional payment for my services). What I'm contesting here is the idea that the outfitting and transmutation systems cater to solo players, and the related idea that there is no place for crafters or social interaction in these systems. If you truly believe that crafters do not have a significant role to play in outfitting and transmutation, then you're taking a glass-half-empty approach. I've personally seen requests for researching items increase significantly since transmutation went live -- much as I expect that requests for motif pages and crafted items for deconstruction will increase when outfitting goes live. If you truly want to help people create outfits, don't shed salt because you can't directly do it for them; help them achieve their vision by personally offering them what they need to get there. You have knowledge to impart (don't forget, ESO's crafting system isn't the most intuitive thing when you're wading into it for the first time -- I know I struggled at first, until I turned to others for advice). You can craft items for deconstruction and help them speed up the process of levelling their crafts to 10. You can sell or trade them any motifs you regularly farm.

Honestly, I think the main reason why some crafters (not you, necessarily) are probably up in arms about this is because they can't sell outfits or transmute other players' weapons at a significant profit. Another possible reason is that they're scared that if more people start dabbling with crafting, they'll become obsolete (which is just silly).

Wouldn't call it hair-splitting. You might not see the distinction, but I do. The new systems were clearly made without social interaction in mind. They cater to, and better suit, people who don't interact socially, and who are more self-reliant - i.e. solo players. Doesn't mean the systems were made with only them in mind - but they clearly are not meant for people like me who prefer the free and open system of social transaction and interaction.

By the way, the main reason I want more freedom isn't to profit. I've played this game since closed beta and I've never found crafting to be a profitable venture - most crafters are happy to render services at cost or free with materials provided. It's always been more about the social interaction between players. I pride myself as being a giving and helpful mastercrafter for my guild and I always give my time and skill to anyone who needs it, at no profit.

I just want a more open system that fosters social interaction between players, instead of sequestering us into our own little bubbles.

If that's the kind of system you want, and if you pride yourself on being a helpful and selfless master crafter, then see this outfit system for the opportunity it is. You can help people create outfits by crafting items that they can deconstruct to level up their crafting skill lines, and you can pass on your knowledge to help them get there more efficiently. You'd be empowering them, not just doing things for them.

And yes, people could be almost entirely self-reliant and create the outfits they want without ever turning to others for help -- but the same can obviously be said for us. Were you going to ask another master crafter to set up your outfits for you (assuming the open-ended system you proposed became a reality), or were you just going to do it yourself?

but then they could sell less motifs in the crownstore...

Keep in mind that this is the first iteration of the Outfit system.

There is always the chance that they will improve upon it in the future allowing crafters to craft something like an outfit stamp that can be sold/traded to other players. Additionally, if they were to implement something like this, they would also have to code a way for players to see what they are buying from the AH or other players, prior to purchase, otherwise there would be a rise in scammers selling bogus Outfit Stamps.

The concern with something like that is the inevitable backlash of folks complaining that it is Pay to Win ( even though it really isn't, it's pay for cosmetics ) as certain motif's are only available for crowns, but could now be purchased in game for gold from a crafter that purchased it. This would in some ways devalue the Motif's in the crown store.

I imagine that if this was something they are going to implement, they would wait to see how it effected crown store sales first, gathering relevant data first, then creating and adding the relevant systems to support this change. All of which take time and planning.

ZoS is a business after all, they will want to make sure that they maintain the value of their products.

That's dumb in so many ways...
From a crafter that studied my entire life to learn all traits, am diminushed to a simply couturier.

Lmao, this community is so into free stuff that all the demands are for idiotic and free stuff.

LordSemaj wrote: »

Or they could not do that and force people to buy the motifs from the Crown store.

WE HAVE A WINNER, tell him what he's won Johnny!!!!

Phage wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

ZOS has continued to disappoint me with these changes to armor. Transmutation had great potential to make mastercrafters relevant again - no, they locked it behind accounts.

Transmog/outfitting had similar potential, but again ZOS chose to lock it behind accounts. I honestly think that at this point there is little hope for them opening up crafting and making it more of a social activity. They're catering too much to the solo players if you ask me.

How are they catering to solo players? If anything, this system rewards players who are willing to spend the time hunting down motif pages (i.e. crafters) in order to sell them to solo players who wouldn't otherwise hunt for/buy those motifs WITHOUT the new outfit system. Also, the Transmutation system rewards crafters who can provide research items to non-crafters who'd like to, say, transmute their weapons to Nirnhoned or whatever.

The motif system existed before this and nothing has changed about it. The prices going up is entirely based on player's perceptions. That's a poor argument.

It's catering to solo players because there is no need to interact with anyone else. You research your own traits, craft your own gear, transmute your own traits, and now you transmog your own outfits. Even getting motifs has no interaction - you're just browsing an NPC store.

Where's the social interaction? There is none. It's all catered to the solo player.

It's much easier to complete your research and get motif pages if you play in a group. My guild had a regular event where we would do quests or activities that had motif pages as a potential reward and we trade the ones we don't need.

When we got word that transmutation was coming out, we made sure to send master writs to the owner of our "Guild Hall" so he could buy it when it was available.

A lot of the activities for getting motif pages (running dungeons/world bosses for example) are better done in a group. Which is far more interaction than having someone ask you to craft them a pair of shoulders and then you never see them again.