Ragnarock41 wrote: »

quite the opposite, they are a little overpowered,(Which isnt their fault, some other options got terribly nerfed, putting stamblades in number 1 for open world.) they were always top dogs with the proc meta, but now after the proc meta so many things got nerfed but nightblades didnt see real nerfs. Especially in the hands of a good player they shine.

davey1107 wrote: »

NBs are powerful, and ifmyou like assassins in other games it’s probably your class of choice. However, they are the hardest class to master. But I always say that people who start as NBs really learn the game and can move into any other class pretty easily, while those who start with like Templars dont necessarily.

Anyway, people offered some pretty advanced tips. Let’s back this up with some starter tips.

- a general concept is that low level toon get handicaps that make them more powerful. As you level up, you are supposed to replace these through gear and abilities. This is why your low level toon is doing great damage...don’t stress it.

- people are correct that you need to focus on either magic or stam. Dunmer can do either, really, but are inclined to magic. Magblades are a little more “dark sorcerer” style of Assassin. They’re fun and powerful. Stamblades are fun too...they’re more your ninja weapons assassins. But play either. Your description of your Trickster Rogue sounds like a magblade. The rotation you describe is pretty much what you need to learn here, just it’s a different system. Yes, a magblade can buff...buff...defense skill...crit attack...aoe, and do massive damage in pvp or pve with it.

- when you pick a fighting resource, put ALL ATTRIBUTE points into that resource. All in stam or all in magic, for the entire game, then never worry about them again. (You can go reset them in a capital city...Elden root, etc). There is a complicated explanation that you don’t reallt need to understand on why this is.

- always spend in most every passive you unlock. Especially class skill lines, but also armor, weapons, etc. there is a lot of power in these. Don’t worry, there are a gazillion more skill points in the game than you need now. Spend freely.

- pay attention to the passives in your class skill lines. More than any other class, nightblades become more powerful by setting up your bar with the right skills. For example, they have a passive where any Assassin line skill slotted increases your critical strike rating. Choosing those skills will increase your power. A lot of their skills offer important buffs, like major brutality / major sorcery. It’ll take you a while to learn all the complex mechanics and be able to set your guy up right...give it time and you’ll figure things out and get more powerful.

- nightblades reach their full potential further along than most classes. Some of your most powerful skills open late, so don’t worry...you’ll get some better options as you level.

- think about skill morphs. If a skill morphs to give a choice between stam and magic, it usually means one variation is for a stamblade and another for a magblade. And be aware that damage that is magic, flame, frost or shock are magic damage and should be used by magblades, while physical damage, poison and disease is for stamblades. Some of your skills need to be re-morphed (Capitol city, shrines, ~300 Gold). Like if you’re going to be a magblade, you don’t want surprise attack, you want concealed weapon.

- use appropriate weapons. Magic builds use staves, while stam builds use the physical weapons. There are exceptions, but for the most part stick to this rule. You use a lot of physical weapon skills. If you love the bow and dual,wield skills, you should try a stamblade.

- wear a combo of light and heavy armor for magic, medium and heavy for stam. Down the road most players wear a little heavy. Like a 5/2 blend early on is good, so you level the lines.

- start to learn about gear sets. Your character has 11 or 12 slots. The gear sets in the game are vital to helping you succeed.

- don’t outlevel gear. In the current game, as you level you have handicaps that fall off and you’re supposed to replace them with better gear. If you get much more than 5 levels above your gear, you will start to suck. It’s a lot of costume changes, but eventually that slows down and doesn’t take as much time.

- if a magblade, early on join the mage guild and then unlock entropy. This offers +20% spell damage for 20 seconds. It’s an important buff for you that you can get this way even at a low level.

Oops. That’s a lot of tips. Hopefully that helps. Feel free to ask any other questions you might have. Your NB is off to a good start, it just needs some tweaking.

idk wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense, and not commenting directly on the NB class, but OP has played the game for a matter of a few weeks and is questioning a class because it does not perform as he expects using tactics he thinks should work well.

It does not make sense.

@idk It makes perfect sense: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
Its typical human behavior.

Although it does tell us one thing. This game sucks at explaining its mechanics to players. ZOS would rather people be snowflakes and then quit playing because they keep failing or getting kicked from groups, in stead of actually teaching the games mechanics and basic rules to players so they can actually be somewhat succesful.

Not really, actually false altogether. Zos explains the mechanics as well as they should. There is not a MMORPG in existence worth it's salt that explains in detail how to play any class.

If you disagree, name one major MMORPG that

Heck, go into many major MMOs where a class has a choice of one weapon and one type of armor and only class specific skills. There are passives that cause one skill to create a proc that benefits another skill. The developers do not explain the rotation needed to benefit from all that. They expect the player base to determine what works best.

Heck, with any MMORPG, it is members of the player base that end up knowing more than any of the developers do of how the characters play. That is common knowledge.

So in the end, like any MMORPG, it is by discussion with other players (often within a decent guild) and looking through what the theorycrafters have worked up, that most of the game figures out what works well. If the player chooses to not go this route, it is very much their choice and their problem.

TheAstaroath wrote: »

Hi everyone,
I started off playing ESO Morrowind about three weeks ago, my previous experience with ESO in general being its two-days Open Beta Test. Now, being a fan of TES since TES III: Morrowind from way back in 2003, and wanting to keep my personal tradition of picking Dunmer in every TES afterwards, and considering I also have a fair amount of experience in assassin-type classes in various other MMOs ( I have a lvl 60 Wood Elf Trickster Rogue in Neverwinter, a lvl 45 Stygian Assassin in Age of Conan, and a lvl 40 Mordesh Stalker in Wildstar) I decided that the Dark Elf Nightblade would be my ideal choice of race+class combo.
My general way of operating such a class is: invisibilty/stealth + an attack that deals critical damage on first hit after stealth = a good deal of initiative damage that would take a huge chunk off the enemy’s health bar, followed by further attacks and/or something to keep me alive if the enemy has proven to be too strong and has not died by then.
So, I mostly use the following skills.

Class Skills:
Shadow Cloak morphed to Shadowy Disguise (Shadow Skills)
Veiled Strike morphed to Surprise Attack (Shadow Skills)
Strife morphed to Swallow Soul (Siphoning skills)
Teleport Strike Morphed to Ambush (Assassination skills)
Consuming Darkness morphed to Bolstering Darkness ( Shadow skills – Ultimate)

Weapon Skills:
Puncture morphed to Pierce Armor (One-handed and Shield skills)
Twin Slashes morphed to Blood Craze (Dual Wield skills)

-I also took Bow skills as my secondary long range option-
Snipe morphed to Lethal Arrow (Bow skills)
Volley morphed to Endless Hail (Bow skills)
Scatter Shot morphed to Magnum Shot (Bow skills)

I raised my count of Skill Points to spend in the above Skills by locating Sky Shards, and am currently lvl 24. Maybe it is still too early to judge, but I’ve had the following experiences so far, in both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game:

In PvE, since the very beginning, I am always struggling to kill River Trolls and Hungers, which I assume are the most powerful Daedra in early game overworld. I feel like I am not dealing enough damage to them per hit, although with the current skills I use, I apply multiple debuffs to them, while buffing my healing back. Even though I constantly spam Puncture-Veiled Strike-Swallow Soul, a River Troll deals from 4k to 6k damage with its skills, while a Hunger deals from 6k to 10k if it also manages to grab me, whereas my total health as of now is 21k. I started off with medium armor for the Critical Rating passive, but turned to Heavy Armor (the Warrior-Poet full set) for the extra armor just to keep myself alive.

Compared to my secondary character, a lvl 6 Orsimer Dragonknight that uses Uppercut/Wrecking Blow, Dragon Leap/Ferocious Leap, Spiked Armor/Hardened Armor, Dark Talons/Choking Talons, I feel like my Nightblade is a total sucker. It takes a total of 3-4 minutes and a great risk of painful death to kill a River Troll, and where the Orc deals 8k damage with one Uppercut, the Nightblade deals maximum 4.5k with a Veiled Strike, without calculating the initial 14k critical from stealth. If I manage to slay the Troll, if I’m lucky and it doesn’t start spamming its most powerful attack, Rend, that deals 4k constantly, I always find myself, barely surviving with 35%-25% HP. Meanwhile the Orc doesn’t even break a sweat, ending the fight in 1.5’- 2’ with 85%-75% HP.

Finally, in PvP, yesterday I dueled the char of one of my irl friends, a by-then lvl 4 Orc Templar with my by-then lvl 22 Dunmer Nightblade, and despite the huge difference in level I had, it felt like I was hitting a brick wall with bare hands. I started critically hit him from stealth for 14k initial damage, then Punctured and Veiled Striked him, then fell back and Lethal Arrowed him, and continued fighting him melee within my Endless Hail. In the end, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I dropped dead, and the Orc had 75% HP still left. After me, the Orc dueled another friend’s Nightblade that by-then was lvl 18 and we witnessed the same results.

I literally cannot understand if it is the class itself that is underpowered, or I chose completely underpowered skills/combos to use. What are your thoughts ?

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

idk wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense, and not commenting directly on the NB class, but OP has played the game for a matter of a few weeks and is questioning a class because it does not perform as he expects using tactics he thinks should work well.

It does not make sense.

@idk It makes perfect sense: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
Its typical human behavior.

Although it does tell us one thing. This game sucks at explaining its mechanics to players. ZOS would rather people be snowflakes and then quit playing because they keep failing or getting kicked from groups, in stead of actually teaching the games mechanics and basic rules to players so they can actually be somewhat succesful.

Not really, actually false altogether. Zos explains the mechanics as well as they should. There is not a MMORPG in existence worth it's salt that explains in detail how to play any class.

If you disagree, name one major MMORPG that

Heck, go into many major MMOs where a class has a choice of one weapon and one type of armor and only class specific skills. There are passives that cause one skill to create a proc that benefits another skill. The developers do not explain the rotation needed to benefit from all that. They expect the player base to determine what works best.

Heck, with any MMORPG, it is members of the player base that end up knowing more than any of the developers do of how the characters play. That is common knowledge.

So in the end, like any MMORPG, it is by discussion with other players (often within a decent guild) and looking through what the theorycrafters have worked up, that most of the game figures out what works well. If the player chooses to not go this route, it is very much their choice and their problem.

I agree with the essensce of what you are telling me. As in that the will to improve will make sure people ask questions and in the end will educate themselves, look for information, etc.

On the other hand, ESO's combat system and mechanics are pretty convoluted for new players. Many MMO's are very similar in playstyle, and many people (even those I know personally that enjoy playing for good results) simply don't even know they are doing things wrong in ESO. For those of us who have been playing since beta it is a different story, since everyone made the same mistakes at the start, and the game back then was a lot simpler with less room to mess up. No cp, softcaps on stats, less sets, no power creep, the list goes on.

But who in their right mind would automatically assume that using light attacks in between skills would increase dps? This mechanic is mentioned nowhere in the game, not even in the tutorial. Animation canceling is such an important part of the game, yet we receive no sign or word of it even existing. They don't have to give detailed explanations of every mechanic, but imo sharing the basic principles is the least we could ask for.

Pretty much every major MMO requires a player to figure out how to get the most damage. Yet for some reason some players look for the answers since no major MMO provides the info for getting max dps. None.

So if your Friend was truly interested in improving his dps he's look for the info. It's really easy to find. Extremely easy.

idk wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

idk wrote: »

No offense, and not commenting directly on the NB class, but OP has played the game for a matter of a few weeks and is questioning a class because it does not perform as he expects using tactics he thinks should work well.

It does not make sense.

@idk It makes perfect sense: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
Its typical human behavior.

Although it does tell us one thing. This game sucks at explaining its mechanics to players. ZOS would rather people be snowflakes and then quit playing because they keep failing or getting kicked from groups, in stead of actually teaching the games mechanics and basic rules to players so they can actually be somewhat succesful.

Not really, actually false altogether. Zos explains the mechanics as well as they should. There is not a MMORPG in existence worth it's salt that explains in detail how to play any class.

If you disagree, name one major MMORPG that

Heck, go into many major MMOs where a class has a choice of one weapon and one type of armor and only class specific skills. There are passives that cause one skill to create a proc that benefits another skill. The developers do not explain the rotation needed to benefit from all that. They expect the player base to determine what works best.

Heck, with any MMORPG, it is members of the player base that end up knowing more than any of the developers do of how the characters play. That is common knowledge.

So in the end, like any MMORPG, it is by discussion with other players (often within a decent guild) and looking through what the theorycrafters have worked up, that most of the game figures out what works well. If the player chooses to not go this route, it is very much their choice and their problem.

I agree with the essensce of what you are telling me. As in that the will to improve will make sure people ask questions and in the end will educate themselves, look for information, etc.

On the other hand, ESO's combat system and mechanics are pretty convoluted for new players. Many MMO's are very similar in playstyle, and many people (even those I know personally that enjoy playing for good results) simply don't even know they are doing things wrong in ESO. For those of us who have been playing since beta it is a different story, since everyone made the same mistakes at the start, and the game back then was a lot simpler with less room to mess up. No cp, softcaps on stats, less sets, no power creep, the list goes on.

But who in their right mind would automatically assume that using light attacks in between skills would increase dps? This mechanic is mentioned nowhere in the game, not even in the tutorial. Animation canceling is such an important part of the game, yet we receive no sign or word of it even existing. They don't have to give detailed explanations of every mechanic, but imo sharing the basic principles is the least we could ask for.

Pretty much every major MMO requires a player to figure out how to get the most damage. Yet for some reason some players look for the answers since no major MMO provides the info for getting max dps. None.

So if your Friend was truly interested in improving his dps he's look for the info. It's really easy to find. Extremely easy.

Since you seem to have decided to over-interpet everything I say, I will stop repeating myself. I really don't know how you got from "basic combat principles" to "getting max dps".

I also don't know why you are being so resistant against this. What harm could a little more explanation do? I'd be happy to get more pugs able to do an acceptable job. And anination cancelling in this game is just as important as blocking or dodgerolling to succeed in the veteran content. Why is the former not in the tutorial?

Again your comparison is not correct.

Blocking and dodge rolling are significantly more important than animation canceling. Huge cavern of difference between basic survival skills and a technique for increasing ones dps.

That's pretty much not an over interpretation of what yiu said.

Besides this topic being a huge tangent from the OP, you seem to want people who are not experts on combat mechanics of the game to take a larger role in teaching players how to play the game.

That seems to be a horid idea. A major step in the wrong direction. Being that you seem to have played other MMORPGs you should be very aware of this.

CavalryPK wrote: »

Specifically magblades are underpowered. Like seriously, we need a buff. BUFF MAGBLADES !!