The problem is that morphs tend to do pretty much the same thing with a couple of minor differences in execution, and a lot of these vary from the base skill by a very wide margin.
I'd love a stam morph of Crystal Blast to replace Wrecking Blow, but sadly I don't think that will happen.
As far as the atro goes, it could be cool, but there would need to be a reason to use it over Dawnbreaker.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine
Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine
They need flavor, not necessarily love. Spoons and spoons of flavor.
TBH I actually thought the change to Rune Prison was a pretty nice buff for stam sorc, because it can be an on-demand stun that doesnt rely on a weapon ability and that allows them to combo their burst.
Stam sorc could use a little bit of love but not oo much. A spoon of love should be fine
They need flavor, not necessarily love. Spoons and spoons of flavor.
TBH I actually thought the change to Rune Prison was a pretty nice buff for stam sorc, because it can be an on-demand stun that doesnt rely on a weapon ability and that allows them to combo their burst.
Reducing or removing the cast time on Dark Deal would be really helpful to stam sorc, cast-time abilities arent super viable for melee characters.
Bound Armaments would be neat if it was worth 2 whole slots, it isnt.
They could also add some stam morphs to the pets.
Honestly I feel like one of the issues with Stam, especially in the case of Sorc, is that ZOS is completely stuck on their design decision that every ability can have only two morphs, so any time Stam gets a morph Magicka has to lose one. If they would just allow certain skills to have more than 2 morphs a whole lot of possibilities would open up. Ive seen a lot of cases of games that are held back by a certain dev being stubborn about an early design decision that didnt bear out after actual release, I wonder if this is one of those cases.
NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.
You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.
The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Yet warden has it all lmao
NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.
You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.
The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Yet warden has it all lmao
The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.
Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.
NegativeVibes wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.
You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.
The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Yet warden has it all lmao
The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.
Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.
Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.
I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.
I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.
You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.
The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Yet warden has it all lmao
The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.
Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.
Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.
I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.
I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.
Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.
Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.
To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.
On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.
Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.
NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.
You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.
The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Yet warden has it all lmao
The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.
Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.
Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.
I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.
I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.
Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.
Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.
To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.
On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.
Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.
Templars have jabs, which have a stamina and magicka morph, and are a channeled high damage ability. That is unique to their class and that is a good thing because it makes their class different. It is very clear that ZOS wants every class to be unique and have access to different abilities and buffs. What I originally posted were suggestions, and not "give me this or I riot." Maybe zenimax could not make crystal blast spammable, keep it a proc or with another mechanic, and make it stamina? Having it as a spammable would be cool in my eyes, as dual wield would be more viable. Maybe a whole different ability and not crystal blast? The point of this thread was suggestion for potential stamina morphs if sorc abilities, and I apologize if it seems to have strayed from that. At the end of the day, I just hope zeni can look at some of the sorc abilities, perhaps create a stamina morph or a morph that more benefits a stamina build, and make the class more unique with its tool kit pertaining to stam sorcs.
It doesn't matter much that the warden can't use 100% of all of their available buffs at once. It's the fact that they are there and at the end of the day a part of the class. It's just zenimax going against their own logic when they say not every class should have access to all buffs through in class abilities and passives.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Give stam more class damage skills.
Give magicka a defense option outside of shieldstacking.
Give options to a little more debuffs.
If nothing of the above, change passives to make them more useful for both amplitudes.
Defense:
When (!) shieldstacking is gone and heavy armor is back in line, I would like to see this class as ultra mobile. Beside tone down on streak fatigue they should have access to both Expedition buffs on mag/stam and snare removal + "denial area" skills (lightning flood, tomb, encase) to make up for difficult healing.
Make it like more selfhealing (higher crit chance, more surge heals) with lesser need of mobility in pve and weaker self healing (due to lower crit chance/ fewer surge heals) with bigger emphasis on mobility in pvp.
Also, when shieldstacking is gone they need to tweak conjured ward.
Utility:
Rework bound armor. Let it grant it current bonus for being slotted but add an active part, snare removal + the other expedition buff (compared to the respective lightning Form morph - minor for boundless, major for hurricane, with respective differences in duration). This wouldn't eliminate the need for double slotting it completely but wouldn't make it useless for just having it on one bar.
Make lightning flood attractive with adding a debuff to it or changing it into a lingering area debuff without dmg. Like minor breach/ fracture and something else, don't know what wouldn't be overkill but strong enough to compete with LL. Maybe instead of another debuff, make it stam/physical dmg or lower it's mag cost to actually make it affordable for both sides. To fit the escape theme I mentioned above, maybe even give it a minor snare (but I think there are too many snares in this game anyway).
Daedric Tomb as second area denial should be somewhat affordable for stam toons too. Lower costs and damage? It's something like an encase -trap but with too high costs to use it for reatreating on stam sorcs.
Damage:
Throw stam sorcs a bone. Grant them either a execute, burst or spam. Change crystal blast for it. E.g. uninterruptable ranged burst with cast time (like dizzy) or one Fury morph as a spam, to open up more variability in weapon choices. ATM being completely reliant on your weapon choices reduces the fun of this class for me.
Make the clannfear morph scale with stam. It already deals physical dmg. Change one atro morph to physical dmg.
All this opens up the use of rebate, expert summoner and blood magic to stam sorcs.
Overperformance:
On the other hand, may reduce time of the wrath proc slightly without killing the delayed playstyle.
Change Implosion. Currently it feels unfair on recieving end and unreliable for the user. Change it to something reliable and predictable. In the likes of undeath passive (lower health = bigger boon) with resource regen, surge healing strength or (my favourite) a slight boost to movement speed. Or if it has to stay execute like, some very minor dmg increase of class skills when oneself or the enemy is at low health (given that they give stam something to work with).
Also, like mentioned above, make a move on shieldstacking. It's no fun on either end.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »@Chilly-McFreeze
Reason for the derailing is I am trying to inject some information that is important, ie zos has no intention of doing his first "suggestion", ie Crystal blast into a spammable. It is just not part of their vision for the game for sorcs to have an in class spammable, regardless of Stam or mag. The best possible outcome would blast be a Stam version of frags with a percentage based proc change for instant cast. But that is just a pipe dream.
Op also states that sorcs have no Stam based dps, hurricane is this, so he is just wrong, even after praising hurricane.
Stamblades have no skill that cost mag in pve dps.
you are acting like sorcs are special. They aren't, all Stam classes play pretty much the same, when played optimally, that is the nature of the game.
Lasty, I have no idea what this thread is doing in this area, if it is going to focus on PvP it ought to be in the PvP combat and skills area here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, and I wouldn't be posting because I have little interest in it.
the only problem is that stamina sucks, cauze ZOS has no love for it
look at bows or 2handed/ DW nothing there that can be considered outstanding
so the race for dps takes place wihout staminabulds, cauze ZOS keep them FARAWAY from being competitive.
Make base and rune prison morph stam, some sort of cheaper air based CC with a small dot that snares after. Magsorc already has encase+streak for CC. The defensive rune would instead CC be a disorient that CCs 2 people on a direct melee hit. (Allows to get range.)
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »A big reason why I started this thread is because my stam sorc feels like a stam dk with less options but more mobility.
Sorc is basically a blank canvas class when it comes to stam.
You really have no offensive stam abilities in your kit, but you have fantastic passives and a bunch of utility in your class skills.
The mobility thing is the biggest. Streak and Minor expedition are amazing tools for navigating a fight, especially when pair with speed potions.
Oh yea definitely. I love the class for what it is, but with a few more stam morphs it'd be perfect.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »NegativeVibes wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS doesnt want sorcs to have a "spammable, just like zos dont want temps to have in class access to the major buffs that temps lack, so asking for a stam spammable is not going to happen.
Yet warden has it all lmao
The warden does not have a meaningful group buff like the rest of the classes, IE the 5% spell damage from the temp, the 5% weapon damage from the dk, the 3% weapon crit from nb and the 3% spell crit from the sorc, yes they have minor toughness but you can get that warhorn and a five piece, so they lack that, you can't get the other classes buffs from anywheres else.
Why are you not concerned about nbs not having major prophecy or savagery in class? It is the same concept, ZOS doesn't want every class to have exactly the same set of buffs and skills, the sorcerer not having a class spammable, regardless of Stam/mag, plays right into that concept.
Are you coming from a PVE perspective? In PVP those minor group buffs mean next to nothing. Sure, they're there, but their not a make or break for your build or group. My main concern about warden was that it gets major expedition, major mending, major brutality, major endurance, minor beserk, minor evasion, major prophecy, minor protection, etc. I can't think of any buff that warden doesn't get while the other classes only get a handful. These are the buffs that mean something in PVP, or at least most of them do.
I'd also like to add, buffs are a bit of a different monster than skills themselves. Skills offer different play styles within the class, while buffs are there to improve their effectiveness.
I will say that buffs are and should be taken into consideration with classes. It's why DK has major mending and Sorc has major and minor expedition. It's what makes the classes different, which ties into playstyle. Im not saying every class should have every buff, but I feel there are some buffs that should be shared.
Of course I am, if you want to talk about skills as they relate to PvP, go here, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills, that is were you are supposed to go of you are talking strictly about PvP.
Also why are coming at me like I came up with this concept, that is not all classes have everything, it is ZOS and their idea, I am simply explaining to you the concept, my own opinions on the matter are not in that reply.
To the guy that says " no offensive stam abilities in your kit" as a Stam sorc, are you mental? You have hurricane, it is an amazing skill and out dpses caltrops on my stamsorc, so what are you on about.
On the fact that wardens get so much buffs, you act like they can use them all at once, pro tip, wardens can't use minor berzerk and minor evasion at the same time because they are on different morphs for the same akill, the way you have them listed is missleading and I think you know that.
Okay so you also day buffs are different then skills, okay, that why do you not care that Templars have no instant cast high damage ability like suprise attack or dks whip? You can't just zero in on one class and one thing that is missing, you have to ask what is the logic and how is that logic implamented, I have tried my best to explain the logic the game developer has specifically and repeatedly stated, you simply disagree with them and the way ZOS wants their game to be. Now you will be okay with that explaintion or you won't, it doesn't make it not the truth.
Templars have jabs, which have a stamina and magicka morph, and are a channeled high damage ability. That is unique to their class and that is a good thing because it makes their class different. It is very clear that ZOS wants every class to be unique and have access to different abilities and buffs. What I originally posted were suggestions, and not "give me this or I riot." Maybe zenimax could not make crystal blast spammable, keep it a proc or with another mechanic, and make it stamina? Having it as a spammable would be cool in my eyes, as dual wield would be more viable. Maybe a whole different ability and not crystal blast? The point of this thread was suggestion for potential stamina morphs if sorc abilities, and I apologize if it seems to have strayed from that. At the end of the day, I just hope zeni can look at some of the sorc abilities, perhaps create a stamina morph or a morph that more benefits a stamina build, and make the class more unique with its tool kit pertaining to stam sorcs.
It doesn't matter much that the warden can't use 100% of all of their available buffs at once. It's the fact that they are there and at the end of the day a part of the class. It's just zenimax going against their own logic when they say not every class should have access to all buffs through in class abilities and passives.
But it does and if to it didn't, you wouldn't list it like you could.
All buffs and skill variations are available to every class, whether in class or out of the class, except the ones I mentioned already.
Lol at the you reciting the temp skill like I don't already know about that, there is a reason I specifically stated and instacast high damage ability, then you just ignore tat with stating to me that channeled Templar ability that does low damage per single hit compared to suprize attack or dks whip., I asked what makes you care so much about sorcs getting something but temps do not have something. I understand why they don't. I accept the differences between the classes. You don't and we can't seem to brigde this gap.
AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »Stam sorcs have some of the best passives in the game and one of the best all round skills in the game (hurricane), the best self healing because it doesn't require any user input, the best stamina mobility outside of shade, and solid resource management. Not to mention the cheapest ults and one of the two best group support ultimates on a stamina class.
stam sorcs are in a good spot imo.