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Sure fire counters to mag sorcs?

BuildMan
BuildMan
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I am curious what tactics, gear, etc could help me (stam warden) counter a magicka sorc. It seems to be the only enemy I cannot win against. I have the most trouble with them and would honestly rather be weaker versus everything else amd have a strong counter to sorcs instead. So what should I use?

I have seen the typical shieldbreaker but it seems weak and easily healed through with healing ward. I also have seen resource poisons and haven't tried them but can if they will help significantly.

I typically run 5 Hunding, 3 agility, 2 velidreth and a random 2h. And this gives me alot of success but I find that sorcs can just stay super defensive and then 180 into the offense. And all that time I spent trying to pressure them is wasted and since I'm at half resources I just get killed too quickly to do anything.

What would you recommend? (No this isn't a nerf sorc thread. I need a counter because I cannot beat them. Doesn't mean the class is OP just that I need to change my strategy for them)
PSN: YourACasul
For the Covenant!!

CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

Ps4/NA/DC
  • Betsararie
    Betsararie
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    lol there's literally a set to counter mag sorcs called shield breaker.

    Other than that, ever heard of stam warden?
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
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    ✭✭
    Shields last 6 seconds, and most good sorcs will recast them at 5 or when they get low.

    In order to beat a sorc you need to work around this. As a warden, you watch for them casting their shield, count 3 seconds, cast beetles, reapply a buff, then dawnbreaker to stun them, the shields will drop as beetles pop, and then a heavy+reverse slice should kill them from there.

    Likewise in terms of offense, most sorcs rely on frag/curse/mages wrath combo to kill people. You block the Frags and you won't take enough damage to pop wrath and you won't die.
    however they can almost endlessly line up this burst while keeping shields up. So you either need to rely on huge offensive pressure to keep them recasting shields, or manage your own defenses in order to keep healthy.

    Resource poisons are a pretty big boon since they will let you eventually run the sorc out of resources, though you will want to pair this with a decent amount of points into the Siphoner passive to cut down on their regen, given that a lot of sorcs are running Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm these days.

    Additionally, find a way to slot some Oblivion damage into your kit. Personally I've been running an Infused 2H and that gives me 1647 glorious shield ignoring damage every 2 seconds, which can be pretty massive when you are trying to finish off low HP sorcs. Shieldbreaker bow bar is another good option, but I don't really like it on Warden, given the way their defensive tools work.

    Other hints, watch your debuffs for when curse is going to blow up, this is when a sorc will try to burst you. Also hide the animation of your dawnbreaker with a heavy attack, it makes it so much harder to read when it is coming out. And don't bother with breaking a Streak stun, unless you are low health. It only lasts a second or so, meaning that is mostly a waste of stam to break.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Count to 5, CC, burst

    Shimmering Shield
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Shields last 6 seconds, and most good sorcs will recast them at 5 or when they get low.

    In order to beat a sorc you need to work around this. As a warden, you watch for them casting their shield, count 3 seconds, cast beetles, reapply a buff, then dawnbreaker to stun them, the shields will drop as beetles pop, and then a heavy+reverse slice should kill them from there.

    Likewise in terms of offense, most sorcs rely on frag/curse/mages wrath combo to kill people. You block the Frags and you won't take enough damage to pop wrath and you won't die.
    however they can almost endlessly line up this burst while keeping shields up. So you either need to rely on huge offensive pressure to keep them recasting shields, or manage your own defenses in order to keep healthy.

    Resource poisons are a pretty big boon since they will let you eventually run the sorc out of resources, though you will want to pair this with a decent amount of points into the Siphoner passive to cut down on their regen, given that a lot of sorcs are running Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm these days.

    Additionally, find a way to slot some Oblivion damage into your kit. Personally I've been running an Infused 2H and that gives me 1647 glorious shield ignoring damage every 2 seconds, which can be pretty massive when you are trying to finish off low HP sorcs. Shieldbreaker bow bar is another good option, but I don't really like it on Warden, given the way their defensive tools work.

    Other hints, watch your debuffs for when curse is going to blow up, this is when a sorc will try to burst you. Also hide the animation of your dawnbreaker with a heavy attack, it makes it so much harder to read when it is coming out. And don't bother with breaking a Streak stun, unless you are low health. It only lasts a second or so, meaning that is mostly a waste of stam to break.

    I was using

    Dizzying
    Beetles
    Reverse slice
    Rally
    Stampede (flex slot)

    I kept getting him to about 50% but couldn't counter him well. He was using twilight and any time I tried to fight him it was shield then heal. If I kill the twilight (which could be rough depending on if he's constantly shielding or not) he would recast before I could close gap to him (since he was constantly moving) I think he had healing ward but I may have been mistaken to think of it because he had both a ice staff and a lightning (but there was plenty of time to swap gear between us since we fought on a resource tower). I'll definitely try using a infused oblivion setup. Maybe the extra 1.6k between dizzying will help.

    Also I typically run 1h and shield in pvp cause I love reverberating bash to stop heals. Would that go well with shieldbreaker? I worry about running 7m cause I usually run 5h 2m with 1h&s.
    Count to 5, CC, burst

    Shimmering Shield

    The issue could be my damage, I didn't think so (I have 30k stam, 3.4k WD, and about 11k pen) amd I handle other classes fine. Just seem to struggle against sorc (mag in particular). Also forgot about shimmering, I'll have to pick that up again cause it was amazing in for the short time I did use it.
    Blanco wrote: »
    lol there's literally a set to counter mag sorcs called shield breaker.

    Other than that, ever heard of stam warden?

    Someone didn't read. I'm aware of shield breaker. But I was seeing if anyone had any other advice. Instead of not contributing to the discussion at hand why not help. Least I'm trying to find answers instead of screaming "OMG NERF SORKS OMG OPOPOPOP"
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • Betsararie
    Betsararie
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So you are a Warden, guess I glanced over that when I skimmed through it.

    Well if you're running heavy you really should not have an issue with him killing you, if you can get a dawnbreaker off on him you can finish him off with the standard warden beetles/ reverse slice combo which is the sorc's kryptonite at this point. The matchup favors you more than almost any in the game.

    Plus. if he's using an ice staff he's basically projecting that he's an easy kill. I'm sure he wouldn't be that tough.
  • Sixty5
    Sixty5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    BuildMan wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Shields last 6 seconds, and most good sorcs will recast them at 5 or when they get low.

    In order to beat a sorc you need to work around this. As a warden, you watch for them casting their shield, count 3 seconds, cast beetles, reapply a buff, then dawnbreaker to stun them, the shields will drop as beetles pop, and then a heavy+reverse slice should kill them from there.

    Likewise in terms of offense, most sorcs rely on frag/curse/mages wrath combo to kill people. You block the Frags and you won't take enough damage to pop wrath and you won't die.
    however they can almost endlessly line up this burst while keeping shields up. So you either need to rely on huge offensive pressure to keep them recasting shields, or manage your own defenses in order to keep healthy.

    Resource poisons are a pretty big boon since they will let you eventually run the sorc out of resources, though you will want to pair this with a decent amount of points into the Siphoner passive to cut down on their regen, given that a lot of sorcs are running Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm these days.

    Additionally, find a way to slot some Oblivion damage into your kit. Personally I've been running an Infused 2H and that gives me 1647 glorious shield ignoring damage every 2 seconds, which can be pretty massive when you are trying to finish off low HP sorcs. Shieldbreaker bow bar is another good option, but I don't really like it on Warden, given the way their defensive tools work.

    Other hints, watch your debuffs for when curse is going to blow up, this is when a sorc will try to burst you. Also hide the animation of your dawnbreaker with a heavy attack, it makes it so much harder to read when it is coming out. And don't bother with breaking a Streak stun, unless you are low health. It only lasts a second or so, meaning that is mostly a waste of stam to break.

    I was using

    Dizzying
    Beetles
    Reverse slice
    Rally
    Stampede (flex slot)

    I kept getting him to about 50% but couldn't counter him well. He was using twilight and any time I tried to fight him it was shield then heal. If I kill the twilight (which could be rough depending on if he's constantly shielding or not) he would recast before I could close gap to him (since he was constantly moving) I think he had healing ward but I may have been mistaken to think of it because he had both a ice staff and a lightning (but there was plenty of time to swap gear between us since we fought on a resource tower). I'll definitely try using a infused oblivion setup. Maybe the extra 1.6k between dizzying will help.

    Also I typically run 1h and shield in pvp cause I love reverberating bash to stop heals. Would that go well with shieldbreaker? I worry about running 7m cause I usually run 5h 2m with 1h&s.

    I wouldn't really recommend Shield Breaker unless you have a bow, simply because it won't really give you the same pressure advantage over them.

    Really the best way to deal with Sorcs is to burst them down in a single rotation. In a sustained fight they have a huge advantage thanks to those shields.

    If you do have reverb bash, then that also makes for a really strong opener to a burst combo like I said, which lets you use your dawnbreaker more offensively.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • Brutusmax1mus
    Brutusmax1mus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep shimmering up, you won't die.

    Poison inject, cast sub assault, bow heavy bar swap stampede, back up and wrecking blow/ reverse slice.

  • grannas211
    grannas211
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    Playing stamina warden? Just turn on the console or computer (whatever platform you're playing on.)
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm gonna make a Stam Templar ranger :cry:
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
    ✭✭✭✭
    Blanco wrote: »
    So you are a Warden, guess I glanced over that when I skimmed through it.

    Well if you're running heavy you really should not have an issue with him killing you, if you can get a dawnbreaker off on him you can finish him off with the standard warden beetles/ reverse slice combo which is the sorc's kryptonite at this point. The matchup favors you more than almost any in the game.

    Plus. if he's using an ice staff he's basically projecting that he's an easy kill. I'm sure he wouldn't be that tough.

    He had title of former emp. He was out solo taking resources (not hard just explaining how I found him) amd we played this game of me going to full him going to full. All ended when I panic rolled off a ledge but was still curious how I wasn't able to get him when at some points I had 3 AI (templar, dk, and sorc) helping me and he was just shrugging them off, along with me.

    And what kind of damage should I be doing with beetle reverse. I am hitting roughly 6.5k with beetle. Reverse was anywhere from 2k to 6k depending on hp. I figured unless he was running heavy (unlikely) I should have been close to full penetration of his defense. Dawnbreaker always seems weak to me. I hit like 24k in pve (30k+ on daedra) but pve I hit for barely 4 to 5k which seems weird even when taking battle spirit into account.


    grannas211 wrote: »
    Playing stamina warden? Just turn on the console or computer (whatever platform you're playing on.)

    Curious how people are saying stam wardens are over preforming other stam specs. Only real difference is we have a timed burst line and undodgable birds (btw which mag has better of). I find that we are pretty even with everything else as of now. I will say tree ult is super strong though. And even after the nerf I'm still gonna use it back bar cause it's too good to give up. We do have alot of buffs available but that's to make up for the lack of stamina morphs on our offensive abilities.
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blanco wrote: »
    lol there's literally a set to counter mag sorcs called shield breaker.

    Other than that, ever heard of stam warden?

    :D :D someone didn’t even try and read the post you salty mag sorc you.

    Beating sorcs is just practice. Keep your hots up to directly counter their dots. Run with a magplar friend if you can for the purge.
  • elfantasmo
    elfantasmo
    ✭✭✭
    BuildMan wrote: »
    I am curious what tactics, gear, etc could help me (stam warden) counter a magicka sorc. It seems to be the only enemy I cannot win against. I have the most trouble with them and would honestly rather be weaker versus everything else amd have a strong counter to sorcs instead. So what should I use?

    I have seen the typical shieldbreaker but it seems weak and easily healed through with healing ward. I also have seen resource poisons and haven't tried them but can if they will help significantly.

    I typically run 5 Hunding, 3 agility, 2 velidreth and a random 2h. And this gives me alot of success but I find that sorcs can just stay super defensive and then 180 into the offense. And all that time I spent trying to pressure them is wasted and since I'm at half resources I just get killed too quickly to do anything.

    What would you recommend? (No this isn't a nerf sorc thread. I need a counter because I cannot beat them. Doesn't mean the class is OP just that I need to change my strategy for them)

    Build to combat ALL player - become a stam warden then proceed to PvP solo open world in your new god mode. Death on stamwarden 1v1 means l2p spam some more trees man!
    Edited by elfantasmo on October 28, 2017 9:11PM
  • elfantasmo
    elfantasmo
    ✭✭✭
    BuildMan wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Shields last 6 seconds, and most good sorcs will recast them at 5 or when they get low.

    In order to beat a sorc you need to work around this. As a warden, you watch for them casting their shield, count 3 seconds, cast beetles, reapply a buff, then dawnbreaker to stun them, the shields will drop as beetles pop, and then a heavy+reverse slice should kill them from there.

    Likewise in terms of offense, most sorcs rely on frag/curse/mages wrath combo to kill people. You block the Frags and you won't take enough damage to pop wrath and you won't die.
    however they can almost endlessly line up this burst while keeping shields up. So you either need to rely on huge offensive pressure to keep them recasting shields, or manage your own defenses in order to keep healthy.

    Resource poisons are a pretty big boon since they will let you eventually run the sorc out of resources, though you will want to pair this with a decent amount of points into the Siphoner passive to cut down on their regen, given that a lot of sorcs are running Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm these days.

    Additionally, find a way to slot some Oblivion damage into your kit. Personally I've been running an Infused 2H and that gives me 1647 glorious shield ignoring damage every 2 seconds, which can be pretty massive when you are trying to finish off low HP sorcs. Shieldbreaker bow bar is another good option, but I don't really like it on Warden, given the way their defensive tools work.

    Other hints, watch your debuffs for when curse is going to blow up, this is when a sorc will try to burst you. Also hide the animation of your dawnbreaker with a heavy attack, it makes it so much harder to read when it is coming out. And don't bother with breaking a Streak stun, unless you are low health. It only lasts a second or so, meaning that is mostly a waste of stam to break.

    I was using

    Dizzying
    Beetles
    Reverse slice
    Rally
    Stampede (flex slot)

    I kept getting him to about 50% but couldn't counter him well. He was using twilight and any time I tried to fight him it was shield then heal. If I kill the twilight (which could be rough depending on if he's constantly shielding or not) he would recast before I could close gap to him (since he was constantly moving) I think he had healing ward but I may have been mistaken to think of it because he had both a ice staff and a lightning (but there was plenty of time to swap gear between us since we fought on a resource tower). I'll definitely try using a infused oblivion setup. Maybe the extra 1.6k between dizzying will help.

    Also I typically run 1h and shield in pvp cause I love reverberating bash to stop heals. Would that go well with shieldbreaker? I worry about running 7m cause I usually run 5h 2m with 1h&s.
    Count to 5, CC, burst

    Shimmering Shield

    The issue could be my damage, I didn't think so (I have 30k stam, 3.4k WD, and about 11k pen) amd I handle other classes fine. Just seem to struggle against sorc (mag in particular). Also forgot about shimmering, I'll have to pick that up again cause it was amazing in for the short time I did use it.
    Blanco wrote: »
    lol there's literally a set to counter mag sorcs called shield breaker.

    Other than that, ever heard of stam warden?

    Someone didn't read. I'm aware of shield breaker. But I was seeing if anyone had any other advice. Instead of not contributing to the discussion at hand why not help. Least I'm trying to find answers instead of screaming "OMG NERF SORKS OMG OPOPOPOP"

    A stamden passively saying nerf sorc I’ve heard it all now. Stamden the most op race since Chuck Norris ...........
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
    ✭✭✭✭
    elfantasmo wrote: »
    BuildMan wrote: »
    Sixty5 wrote: »
    Shields last 6 seconds, and most good sorcs will recast them at 5 or when they get low.

    In order to beat a sorc you need to work around this. As a warden, you watch for them casting their shield, count 3 seconds, cast beetles, reapply a buff, then dawnbreaker to stun them, the shields will drop as beetles pop, and then a heavy+reverse slice should kill them from there.

    Likewise in terms of offense, most sorcs rely on frag/curse/mages wrath combo to kill people. You block the Frags and you won't take enough damage to pop wrath and you won't die.
    however they can almost endlessly line up this burst while keeping shields up. So you either need to rely on huge offensive pressure to keep them recasting shields, or manage your own defenses in order to keep healthy.

    Resource poisons are a pretty big boon since they will let you eventually run the sorc out of resources, though you will want to pair this with a decent amount of points into the Siphoner passive to cut down on their regen, given that a lot of sorcs are running Shacklebreaker or Amber Plasm these days.

    Additionally, find a way to slot some Oblivion damage into your kit. Personally I've been running an Infused 2H and that gives me 1647 glorious shield ignoring damage every 2 seconds, which can be pretty massive when you are trying to finish off low HP sorcs. Shieldbreaker bow bar is another good option, but I don't really like it on Warden, given the way their defensive tools work.

    Other hints, watch your debuffs for when curse is going to blow up, this is when a sorc will try to burst you. Also hide the animation of your dawnbreaker with a heavy attack, it makes it so much harder to read when it is coming out. And don't bother with breaking a Streak stun, unless you are low health. It only lasts a second or so, meaning that is mostly a waste of stam to break.

    I was using

    Dizzying
    Beetles
    Reverse slice
    Rally
    Stampede (flex slot)

    I kept getting him to about 50% but couldn't counter him well. He was using twilight and any time I tried to fight him it was shield then heal. If I kill the twilight (which could be rough depending on if he's constantly shielding or not) he would recast before I could close gap to him (since he was constantly moving) I think he had healing ward but I may have been mistaken to think of it because he had both a ice staff and a lightning (but there was plenty of time to swap gear between us since we fought on a resource tower). I'll definitely try using a infused oblivion setup. Maybe the extra 1.6k between dizzying will help.

    Also I typically run 1h and shield in pvp cause I love reverberating bash to stop heals. Would that go well with shieldbreaker? I worry about running 7m cause I usually run 5h 2m with 1h&s.
    Count to 5, CC, burst

    Shimmering Shield

    The issue could be my damage, I didn't think so (I have 30k stam, 3.4k WD, and about 11k pen) amd I handle other classes fine. Just seem to struggle against sorc (mag in particular). Also forgot about shimmering, I'll have to pick that up again cause it was amazing in for the short time I did use it.
    Blanco wrote: »
    lol there's literally a set to counter mag sorcs called shield breaker.

    Other than that, ever heard of stam warden?

    Someone didn't read. I'm aware of shield breaker. But I was seeing if anyone had any other advice. Instead of not contributing to the discussion at hand why not help. Least I'm trying to find answers instead of screaming "OMG NERF SORKS OMG OPOPOPOP"

    A stamden passively saying nerf sorc I’ve heard it all now. Stamden the most op race since Chuck Norris ...........

    In the OP I clearly state that this is an issue on my side. I need to adapt. And that's why I ask for advice. If you choose to interpret it that way that's on you.
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You say he was a sorc, but I don't read anywhere about you mentioning his shields.

    Ignoring 3 NPCs is no problem for most non glass cannon builds while facing another player.

    You say he would get you down but couldn't kill you. Sounds to me he was running a high Regen build and probably couldn't kill you unless you made a mistake (not enough DMG stats)

    So, more than likely it's a build that just capitalizes on player's mistakes, had you turtled, he couldn't have done much
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
  • BuildMan
    BuildMan
    ✭✭✭✭
    You say he was a sorc, but I don't read anywhere about you mentioning his shields.

    Ignoring 3 NPCs is no problem for most non glass cannon builds while facing another player.

    You say he would get you down but couldn't kill you. Sounds to me he was running a high Regen build and probably couldn't kill you unless you made a mistake (not enough DMG stats)

    So, more than likely it's a build that just capitalizes on player's mistakes, had you turtled, he couldn't have done much


    Post 5 I mentioned his shields. But if you meant which he was using. Well I'm pretty sure it was healing and hardened. As far as his build well I'm not mad at all. He lasted longer and I messed up and he won the battle of attrition. All fine in my book. I don't think he was op at all, I felt we were both pretty balanced.

    Which I why I wanna build against sorcs. So then I can get the upper hand through specific build setups. And I feel that since now I am pretty balanced versus everything else I wanna weaken myself against other classes but get stronger against sorcs. And I knew some basics but maybe someone knew something I didnt.

    When I was looking at that sub assault thread I learned about the defile from the aoe heal. Maybe that would have helped since I could prevented his rubberbanding heals via twilight.
    PSN: YourACasul
    For the Covenant!!

    CP 980 Redguard Stamina Warden Flawless Conqueror

    Ps4/NA/DC
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