Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS) trying to play with it, but suck at it. Main story now playing with Warden class (also as healer) still think this class can be improved. Seems also in dungeons with warden class healing feels like buggy (any experience that?)
They tell warden class is not good when want play PVP with it. Any thoughts on that?
Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS) trying to play with it, but suck at it. Main story now playing with Warden class (also as healer) still think this class can be improved. Seems also in dungeons with warden class healing feels like buggy (any experience that?)
They tell warden class is not good when want play PVP with it. Any thoughts on that?
"Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS)" ... I personally think in PVP roles cannot be put in to tank, healer, DPS category.
You sort of need to think out side of the usual play style framework. And the roles will change depending on how many ppl are in your team.
For example.. if you are solo than you are tank, dps, and healer. If you are in duo then you become more more dps, less healer and less tank.
VaranisArano wrote: »Narvuntien wrote: »What is even winning in PVP?
Killing other players?
Getting AP?
Honestly I enjoy PVP on a higher level than the actual fighting. Zergs crashing into each other, 2 shot ganks and lag of both the network and FPS varities makes actual combat a mess.
It isn't about living or dying or killing, its about pulling the enemy around to gave advantages to your team on the otherside of the map. I mean you have to hope your efforts work, you can't really know unless you start seeing keeps lighting up.
Zergs have this kind of predicability to them due to the nature of large numbers of people you can exploit, you can waste there time you can pull them away from where they should be.
You and your three buddies take a bunch of resources and they send 12 people to stop you... you win.. even if they kill you all.. They used 12 on your 4.
There's an end of campaign reward and a scoring system and 1st through 3rd place..... Have you ever been to Cyrodiil? I assume you can grasp in BGs that there's always a winning team.
Sometimes its not about "winning" or "losing". My team might die miserably to a full raid on Aleswell, but if we pulled a group of defenders from somewhere else on the map that our faction then captured, we'll count that as a win for the faction and a win for us. What?! We lost, we died miserably! BUT, we accomplished our grander goal.
That's part of the strategy of Cyrodiil, where your individual deaths or victories mean something beyond your individual efforts and start to count for the faction and for your teammates in the faction.
We can count winning as being the emperor and being on the leaderboards, but not everyone wants to be that kind of winner. Some people prefer to play the map and play for the faction, and so when the faction wins, we all win, even if our small part in that faction push was a death that enabled a victory.
To repeat the example given by Narvuntien, if your small force pulls away the larger forces of the enemy to a place you want and where they are not at a more important location, your force won in terms of strategy and accomplishing your goal, even if you wipe to a man. That's not necessarily going to get you on the leaderboards or the emperorship or even a reputation as a good 1v1/small group PVPer. It does mean that you are effective at supporting your faction, your faction's players, and that is a long-term, sustained effort sort of winning that may not win every battle, but it does win campaigns.
Long story short, there's lots of ways to win at PVP. Some of them are individual, others are about the faction, and some of them turn what looks like a "loss" into a strategic victory.
Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS) trying to play with it, but suck at it. Main story now playing with Warden class (also as healer) still think this class can be improved. Seems also in dungeons with warden class healing feels like buggy (any experience that?)
They tell warden class is not good when want play PVP with it. Any thoughts on that?
"Like to play PVP but always as healer (not good with tank and DPS)" ... I personally think in PVP roles cannot be put in to tank, healer, DPS category.
You sort of need to think out side of the usual play style framework. And the roles will change depending on how many ppl are in your team.
For example.. if you are solo than you are tank, dps, and healer. If you are in duo then you become more more dps, less healer and less tank.
@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
Why is it that the people who keep saying “PvP isn’t skill based” never are good at PvP? You’d think that if it isn’t skill based then they could get these magical items and these “meta builds” and run around dominating everyone. But that’s never what happens.
Is gear important? Yes. But thankfully this game makes getting good gear very easy compared to other MMOs. There’s no “best” gear, but certain gear sets do tend to work better for certain play styles. I run hundings and automatons and 1 pc Molag Kena on my stamplar. It isn’t a secret and it’s an extremely generic build. But it works and I still tend to do really well in the small group vs small group fights I prefer.
If it had taken me a month to farm those sets then I’d be whining about gear. But it took an afternoon.
Why is it that the people who keep saying “PvP isn’t skill based” never are good at PvP? You’d think that if it isn’t skill based then they could get these magical items and these “meta builds” and run around dominating everyone. But that’s never what happens.
Is gear important? Yes. But thankfully this game makes getting good gear very easy compared to other MMOs. There’s no “best” gear, but certain gear sets do tend to work better for certain play styles. I run hundings and automatons and 1 pc Molag Kena on my stamplar. It isn’t a secret and it’s an extremely generic build. But it works and I still tend to do really well in the small group vs small group fights I prefer.
If it had taken me a month to farm those sets then I’d be whining about gear. But it took an afternoon.
Mangeli200194 wrote: »@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
I Challenge u to do vmsa on a stblade then on a sorc then tell me whats easier. Yeh PvP is easy on stbl but it can be hellisch im pve endgame. We have to have a easy Time someshere. And btw sorc Rotation= crushing shock spamm till frag procs , mages wrath x3(warning you a ult is incoming), dbos, frag streak away repeat if needed, and keep your massive 55k Max Magika shields up 24/7
Think yur a skilled player
Ruin PvP
Or even better destroult/soul assault a person getting zerged ,
Think your a skilled player
Ruin pvp
***_allard wrote: »PvP sucks! I have never liked PvP and hate the fact that game developers cater to them that do.
JonnytheKing wrote: »***_allard wrote: »PvP sucks! I have never liked PvP and hate the fact that game developers cater to them that do.
you really are missing something up top if you think zos caters for pvp , and the fact that you say it sucks probable mean that you suck at pvp , put some time in to it and its fun.
Smasherx74 wrote: »Gear is one thing, knowing how to use that gear and your skills to their best whilst using LoS to control fights is a lot of what PvP is about, all of which is player skill.
It's about having the better ping. It's rarely about anything more. Be a real community ambassador and campaign for latency equalization to be built into the server and client. Then let's talk.
JonnytheKing wrote: »I have around 400 ping all the time and still can beat most poeple sooooooooo
FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
I Challenge u to do vmsa on a stblade then on a sorc then tell me whats easier. Yeh PvP is easy on stbl but it can be hellisch im pve endgame. We have to have a easy Time someshere. And btw sorc Rotation= crushing shock spamm till frag procs , mages wrath x3(warning you a ult is incoming), dbos, frag streak away repeat if needed, and keep your massive 55k Max Magika shields up 24/7
Think yur a skilled player
Ruin PvP
Or even better destroult/soul assault a person getting zerged ,
Think your a skilled player
Ruin pvp
I play mdk this topic is about pvp u have no point
Mangeli200194 wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
I Challenge u to do vmsa on a stblade then on a sorc then tell me whats easier. Yeh PvP is easy on stbl but it can be hellisch im pve endgame. We have to have a easy Time someshere. And btw sorc Rotation= crushing shock spamm till frag procs , mages wrath x3(warning you a ult is incoming), dbos, frag streak away repeat if needed, and keep your massive 55k Max Magika shields up 24/7
Think yur a skilled player
Ruin PvP
Or even better destroult/soul assault a person getting zerged ,
Think your a skilled player
Ruin pvp
I play mdk this topic is about pvp u have no point
@FloppyTouch
Even worse mag dks= dot, taleons, whip repeat
Think your a good player
Mangeli200194 wrote: »And the point was= PvP is literally One of the few Things a stamblade can exell at and you want to take that from them as Well???
LukosCreyden wrote: »I play pvp sometimes.
It is fun.
I once chased a magplar half way across cyrodiil, I couldn't out dps their heals.
Eventually, they made the mistake of heading towards one of the bridges.
That was entertaining.
I also enjoy zergs. Two massive groups of people charging at each other is fun.
Sieges are fun too. Except for when a wall comes down and the game has to load in the new map state. I am usually dead when it has finished loading.
Small group pvp/solo pvp can be fun too. I hate it when that one elf I'm fighting hits me with 23 different skills in 2 seconds, though. I tried to do that once, but I just ended up flailing around like a lost jellyfish.
Maybe I will be better at it one day.
Pvp is fun, but it has a few problems. It is still enjoyable, but I think it shouldn't be taken seriously.
I forgot what this thread was about.
FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
I Challenge u to do vmsa on a stblade then on a sorc then tell me whats easier. Yeh PvP is easy on stbl but it can be hellisch im pve endgame. We have to have a easy Time someshere. And btw sorc Rotation= crushing shock spamm till frag procs , mages wrath x3(warning you a ult is incoming), dbos, frag streak away repeat if needed, and keep your massive 55k Max Magika shields up 24/7
Think yur a skilled player
Ruin PvP
Or even better destroult/soul assault a person getting zerged ,
Think your a skilled player
Ruin pvp
I play mdk this topic is about pvp u have no point
@FloppyTouch
Even worse mag dks= dot, taleons, whip repeat
Think your a good player
Nope I don’t if fact I think I’m terrible. But you bring up VMA an sorcs like I play one. Comparing and easy mode VMA class to anything can make another class look weak that why I said you have no point.
Mdk in solo pvp is a lot harder then a Stamblade at least a Stamblade can run away and their combo is a set rotation. Mdk has to stand there beating up a guy and hold there ground. Stam NB is the well this didn’t work end fight bye
When I switched from mdk to stam NB after years of playing mdk I could not believe how easy it was to play. This was also during the proc meta Stamblade
FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
I Challenge u to do vmsa on a stblade then on a sorc then tell me whats easier. Yeh PvP is easy on stbl but it can be hellisch im pve endgame. We have to have a easy Time someshere. And btw sorc Rotation= crushing shock spamm till frag procs , mages wrath x3(warning you a ult is incoming), dbos, frag streak away repeat if needed, and keep your massive 55k Max Magika shields up 24/7
Think yur a skilled player
Ruin PvP
Or even better destroult/soul assault a person getting zerged ,
Think your a skilled player
Ruin pvp
I play mdk this topic is about pvp u have no point
@FloppyTouch
Even worse mag dks= dot, taleons, whip repeat
Think your a good player
Nope I don’t if fact I think I’m terrible. But you bring up VMA an sorcs like I play one. Comparing and easy mode VMA class to anything can make another class look weak that why I said you have no point.
Mdk in solo pvp is a lot harder then a Stamblade at least a Stamblade can run away and their combo is a set rotation. Mdk has to stand there beating up a guy and hold there ground. Stam NB is the well this didn’t work end fight bye
When I switched from mdk to stam NB after years of playing mdk I could not believe how easy it was to play. This was also during the proc meta Stamblade
FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »Mangeli200194 wrote: »@FloppyTouchFloppyTouch wrote: »
I Challenge u to do vmsa on a stblade then on a sorc then tell me whats easier. Yeh PvP is easy on stbl but it can be hellisch im pve endgame. We have to have a easy Time someshere. And btw sorc Rotation= crushing shock spamm till frag procs , mages wrath x3(warning you a ult is incoming), dbos, frag streak away repeat if needed, and keep your massive 55k Max Magika shields up 24/7
Think yur a skilled player
Ruin PvP
Or even better destroult/soul assault a person getting zerged ,
Think your a skilled player
Ruin pvp
I play mdk this topic is about pvp u have no point
@FloppyTouch
Even worse mag dks= dot, taleons, whip repeat
Think your a good player
Nope I don’t if fact I think I’m terrible. But you bring up VMA an sorcs like I play one. Comparing and easy mode VMA class to anything can make another class look weak that why I said you have no point.
Mdk in solo pvp is a lot harder then a Stamblade at least a Stamblade can run away and their combo is a set rotation. Mdk has to stand there beating up a guy and hold there ground. Stam NB is the well this didn’t work end fight bye
When I switched from mdk to stam NB after years of playing mdk I could not believe how easy it was to play. This was also during the proc meta Stamblade
LukosCreyden wrote: »I play pvp sometimes.
It is fun.
I once chased a magplar half way across cyrodiil, I couldn't out dps their heals.
Eventually, they made the mistake of heading towards one of the bridges.
That was entertaining.
I also enjoy zergs. Two massive groups of people charging at each other is fun.
Sieges are fun too. Except for when a wall comes down and the game has to load in the new map state. I am usually dead when it has finished loading.
Small group pvp/solo pvp can be fun too. I hate it when that one elf I'm fighting hits me with 23 different skills in 2 seconds, though. I tried to do that once, but I just ended up flailing around like a lost jellyfish.
Maybe I will be better at it one day.
Pvp is fun, but it has a few problems. It is still enjoyable, but I think it shouldn't be taken seriously.
I forgot what this thread was about.
Smasherx74 wrote: »So smasher by your perspective we could put a total noob in gear and he will #win?
This is facts.
I've put noobs in basic PVP gear and they destroy those who aren't in gear.
A pro PVPer in PVE gear/bars will lose to a noob in PVP gear. That's how this game works, and every MMO I played works. If you have better gear, you win. Sure there is some room for error or potential, but in general having higher tier gear automatically means you win. Especially if you consider you have not only higher tier gear, but skills PVP locked.
I honestly believe Archeage has PVP equality than this game... that may sound 100% false to any archeage player but consider this. ESO is just as bad, maybe you don't have to play since day 1 to be the highest gear score, but if you specifically level up PVP skills and grind for PVP sets then you can easily beat anyone who doesn't have good gear or PVP skills unlocked.
There is no such a thing as "high tier gear" in this game. Gear progression in this game is really short and the only hard gear to get are the Maelstrom weapons.Smasherx74 wrote: »So smasher by your perspective we could put a total noob in gear and he will #win?
This is facts.
I've put noobs in basic PVP gear and they destroy those who aren't in gear.
A pro PVPer in PVE gear/bars will lose to a noob in PVP gear. That's how this game works, and every MMO I played works. If you have better gear, you win. Sure there is some room for error or potential, but in general having higher tier gear automatically means you win. Especially if you consider you have not only higher tier gear, but skills PVP locked.
I honestly believe Archeage has PVP equality than this game... that may sound 100% false to any archeage player but consider this. ESO is just as bad, maybe you don't have to play since day 1 to be the highest gear score, but if you specifically level up PVP skills and grind for PVP sets then you can easily beat anyone who doesn't have good gear or PVP skills unlocked.
By the way, to test out some of your theories, I took my poor girlfriend (who had leveled to level 11 all by herself), logged her on my toon, grouped her up with some of the best BG players in PC NA, and recorded it.
So to those who say you can take a beginner and gear them out and put them on a good team and they’ll dominate, let me present “taking a beginner and gearing her out and putting her on a good team”
https://youtu.be/K8qGMJZMGo8
ColoursYouHave wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.
Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
Defeatist mentality. I’ll at least agree gear matters more in this game than most others I have played but you could put some in BIS gear that has no skill and a really good player in crap gear and the better player will still win. The day everyone starts blaming gear sets on why they die is the day they should maybe reassess their own skills. Not saying you’re bad as I don’t know you and won’t judge, but I see others wit this mentality too and there is a common theme.***_allard wrote: »PvP sucks! I have never liked PvP and hate the fact that game developers cater to them that do.
I know right? All this PvP content over the last three years is just way too much! I wish there would be PvE oriented DLC for once! *end sarcasm*
If you wear *** gear in PVP, even a noob can destroy you if they got really good gear. A noob in 5fps spamming biting jabs and jesus beam will absolutely murder you every time. Why? Because you literally can't kill them. That noob could be the worst player in the game, and all he has to do is spam 2 abilities. One damage and one heals. If you're really playing in *** gear and he realy has good gear, he's just going to destroy you every time no matter how much you run or how good your movement is.
This si why I compared this game to Archeage. In that game the people with best gear have played / grinded for years or paid thousands of dollars for the character. Starting off as a noob in AA you will never get even close to top GS. You'll literally be grinding every single day just to get a little bit better GS, and then after about 3-5 years you might have a high GS relative to the top. Now you can get 3k gs (about the minimum required for end game) and play absolutely *** PERFECT but if your enemy has 8k gs, they will literally 2 shot you or just stand there while you do tons of damage and they haven't even lost a % of health.
You know what other game is like that? ESO.... I can go duel someone right now and even if they're a GOOD if their gear isn't good enough I can just stand there typing in chat about how they suck, while I just throw some buffs and vigor myself every once in a while. That player can be a former emp and still get his ass handed to him without me having to play skillful at all. As long as I got better gear for the situation (like dueling) I will always win.
Just because you would die to a noob with good gear doesn't mean everybody else would.
One thing I want to point out is that claiming that gear is more important than skill is too vague of a statement to actually be meaningful. Sure, if you have somebody with all white non-set gear fight somebody with fully gold BIS gear, then gear is likely going to be a bigger factor than skill. However, there is a huge difference between not having good gear, and having gear so bad that you have to try to not have any better options. More realistically, if you want to talk about how much gear impacts performance, you want to compare "budget" gear, which anybody who wants to PVP should be able to obtain fairly easily, to BIS gear. I think I can safely say that blue crafted or overland sets are easy enough to obtain that you could reasonably use that as a baseline to compare BIS gear to. While the difference in quality of gear will have an impact, give me blue crafted sets and I'll take down a noob wearing gold BIS gear anytime.
THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »By the way, to test out some of your theories, I took my poor girlfriend (who had leveled to level 11 all by herself), logged her on my toon, grouped her up with some of the best BG players in PC NA, and recorded it.
So to those who say you can take a beginner and gear them out and put them on a good team and they’ll dominate, let me present “taking a beginner and gearing her out and putting her on a good team”
https://youtu.be/K8qGMJZMGo8
This was awesome and so completely accurate. The lack of speed between her moves was great. If you’re not comfortable enough with the controls where you can rattle off an attack sequence while anticipating your opponent’s next move you’re gonna get got even if you are equipped with the best gear imaginable.
There is no substitute for experience.
Smasherx74 wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Smasherx74 wrote: »PVP in this game sucks because it's not skill based enough.
Sure you can spend hundreds of hours figuring out what would be best gear to use, maybe you even change gear/slots for duels, bg, and cyrodill... but what is it that relaly makes you good? Well 99.9999999% of the time it's gear, nto your skill. Perhaps sometimes you get an even fight, then it lasts 2 hours.
Defeatist mentality. I’ll at least agree gear matters more in this game than most others I have played but you could put some in BIS gear that has no skill and a really good player in crap gear and the better player will still win. The day everyone starts blaming gear sets on why they die is the day they should maybe reassess their own skills. Not saying you’re bad as I don’t know you and won’t judge, but I see others wit this mentality too and there is a common theme.***_allard wrote: »PvP sucks! I have never liked PvP and hate the fact that game developers cater to them that do.
I know right? All this PvP content over the last three years is just way too much! I wish there would be PvE oriented DLC for once! *end sarcasm*
If you wear *** gear in PVP, even a noob can destroy you if they got really good gear. A noob in 5fps spamming biting jabs and jesus beam will absolutely murder you every time. Why? Because you literally can't kill them. That noob could be the worst player in the game, and all he has to do is spam 2 abilities. One damage and one heals. If you're really playing in *** gear and he realy has good gear, he's just going to destroy you every time no matter how much you run or how good your movement is.
This si why I compared this game to Archeage. In that game the people with best gear have played / grinded for years or paid thousands of dollars for the character. Starting off as a noob in AA you will never get even close to top GS. You'll literally be grinding every single day just to get a little bit better GS, and then after about 3-5 years you might have a high GS relative to the top. Now you can get 3k gs (about the minimum required for end game) and play absolutely *** PERFECT but if your enemy has 8k gs, they will literally 2 shot you or just stand there while you do tons of damage and they haven't even lost a % of health.
You know what other game is like that? ESO.... I can go duel someone right now and even if they're a GOOD if their gear isn't good enough I can just stand there typing in chat about how they suck, while I just throw some buffs and vigor myself every once in a while. That player can be a former emp and still get his ass handed to him without me having to play skillful at all. As long as I got better gear for the situation (like dueling) I will always win.
Just because you would die to a noob with good gear doesn't mean everybody else would.
One thing I want to point out is that claiming that gear is more important than skill is too vague of a statement to actually be meaningful. Sure, if you have somebody with all white non-set gear fight somebody with fully gold BIS gear, then gear is likely going to be a bigger factor than skill. However, there is a huge difference between not having good gear, and having gear so bad that you have to try to not have any better options. More realistically, if you want to talk about how much gear impacts performance, you want to compare "budget" gear, which anybody who wants to PVP should be able to obtain fairly easily, to BIS gear. I think I can safely say that blue crafted or overland sets are easy enough to obtain that you could reasonably use that as a baseline to compare BIS gear to. While the difference in quality of gear will have an impact, give me blue crafted sets and I'll take down a noob wearing gold BIS gear anytime.
Thanks for the blatant insult, but I was speaking objectively not based on my own ancedotal experience.
If I'm an experienced vet played since beta but I'm wearing regular gear, then some noob wears gold BiS gear for OP build.
Guess what? I can't magically clutch a win by "playing good". Killing them is literally impossible, and tanking them is also impossible. So what do I do? Maybe I can try to knock them out fo bounds in a duel but what if it's cyordill? Does running away count as winning? Sorry but what I said wasn't vague it was absolutely true.
But hey let's try to address the argument from your perspective. Picture this, i'm using blue crafted gear with average build. Now some noob has just got all gold BiS gear for a really good PVP build. He plays like absolute crap, but I play absolutely perfect. He doesn't apply his abilities or burst, doesn't dodge or block, just buttom mashes an ability or two standing still. While I'm running around him so he can't hit me, stunning and controlling him, kiting, etc... But for some reason the noob isn't dying! I mean, I'm playing my absolute best. I play this way with good gear and destroy everyone, so whats going on? It's not my skill, and it certainly isn't the noob's skill. It's the gear...
Don't treat this game like it's a fair competition because it's not. Gear easily makes up for 75% of the capability to win. 25% could arguably be skill related.