IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
This has been held up as the end all be all of why we can’t have crit on shields but get a friend hit them with a DoT and let it expire let them heal back to full health and then do it again with a shield up the damage is way lower.
With shields having no resistance you would think that they took more damage but I have tested this personal with my stamina build on a mage friend the damage reduction is strong.
xiZeroPointix wrote: »no resistances, non critable. Its almost like adding 12k to your health for 6 seconds. When struck...the damage mitigation reduces to just tooltip damage of your weapon since you cant apply status efects to sheilds or dots such as bleed. Striking a shield will be just base damage without very many damage modifiers because the game doesnt see it as a target, therefore the regular damage mechanics are ignored. You are limited when a target is shielded. With current stamina builds tho a sheild will onlt mitigate 1 maybe 2 attacks before being depleted. Rarely do shields actually remain for the full duration. Crit modifiers along with other forms of damage modifiers are only applied to targets that are recognized by the game. Sheilds are designed in a way that it is not seen as an individual target like dungeon monsters or other players. But shields also do not mitigate all damage and the shielded target can and does recieve damage. As long as the shield is up the player will recieve on ocassion non critable base damage..the same way the shield does.
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
Yup. This is further compounded by the fact that shields cannot critically strike. Therefore taking irregular crit spikes while not being able to crit themselves would make shielding dynamics mathematically inconsistent in terms of balance. Imagine if heals couldn't crit for example and think about the ramifications that would have in any fight. Not exactly rocket science.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
Yup. This is further compounded by the fact that shields cannot critically strike. Therefore taking irregular crit spikes while not being able to crit themselves would make shielding dynamics mathematically inconsistent in terms of balance. Imagine if heals couldn't crit for example and think about the ramifications that would have in any fight. Not exactly rocket science.
Dragon's Blood only recently became able to to crit heal after nearly 3 years. Consistency has never been this game's strong suit. Careful when tossing that term around.
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
Yup. This is further compounded by the fact that shields cannot critically strike. Therefore taking irregular crit spikes while not being able to crit themselves would make shielding dynamics mathematically inconsistent in terms of balance. Imagine if heals couldn't crit for example and think about the ramifications that would have in any fight. Not exactly rocket science.
Dragon's Blood only recently became able to to crit heal after nearly 3 years. Consistency has never been this game's strong suit. Careful when tossing that term around.
It got changed in the right direction though?
Why would you want to go backwards.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Shields take unresisted damage. Which is already quite high. If that unresisted high damage crits, you'll be seeing onehits to shields. Making them useless.
Not happening.
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Shields take unresisted damage. Which is already quite high. If that unresisted high damage crits, you'll be seeing onehits to shields. Making them useless.
Not happening.
Unresisted Damage without damage modification so shields take less damage then a normal attack unless you have no damage buffs.
Perhaps dots should go through shields and direct damage is absorbed? Something like that.
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Because it gives you 0 armor and spell resistance.
Well, it's not like that unresisted damage amounts to much - most of the 5/1/1 light armor builds (the ones that actually use dmg shields) get around 15% mitigation, where as a dmg shield can mitigate up to around 75% (depending on CP setup & class passives) crit damage.
E.g. 50% crit & 75% crit dmg build is dealing dmg to you.
Casting shield makes you take 15% more (assuming there's no buffs/debuffs/CPs that would affect mitigation), but you'd also take an average 37.5% less damage by not taking crits. Which is better? You tell me.
Well, it's not like that unresisted damage amounts to much - most of the 5/1/1 light armor builds (the ones that actually use dmg shields) get around 15% mitigation, where as a dmg shield can mitigate up to around 75% (depending on CP setup & class passives) crit damage.
E.g. 50% crit & 75% crit dmg build is dealing dmg to you.
Casting shield makes you take 15% more (assuming there's no buffs/debuffs/CPs that would affect mitigation), but you'd also take an average 37.5% less damage by not taking crits. Which is better? You tell me.
Your math is wrong here @DDuke . Lets make simple test and say we're fighting 50% crit chance 75% crit dmg enemie and we have 15% dmg mitigation from armor. Lets consider taking 10 hits each for 1k not mitigated dealt to shields and 850 with 15% armor mitigation dealt to us without shields
Dmg taken on armor
5 x 850 + 5 x 1487,5 = 11687,5
Dmg taken on shields
10 x 1000 = 10000
So You take around 17% less dmg on shields then You would take on armor agaisnt 50% crit chance enemie which is not so often seen lately. If enemie would have 40% crit which is closer to current average value then it would be around 10%.
Well, it's not like that unresisted damage amounts to much - most of the 5/1/1 light armor builds (the ones that actually use dmg shields) get around 15% mitigation, where as a dmg shield can mitigate up to around 75% (depending on CP setup & class passives) crit damage.
E.g. 50% crit & 75% crit dmg build is dealing dmg to you.
Casting shield makes you take 15% more (assuming there's no buffs/debuffs/CPs that would affect mitigation), but you'd also take an average 37.5% less damage by not taking crits. Which is better? You tell me.
Your math is wrong here @DDuke . Lets make simple test and say we're fighting 50% crit chance 75% crit dmg enemie and we have 15% dmg mitigation from armor. Lets consider taking 10 hits each for 1k not mitigated dealt to shields and 850 with 15% armor mitigation dealt to us without shields
Dmg taken on armor
5 x 850 + 5 x 1487,5 = 11687,5
Dmg taken on shields
10 x 1000 = 10000
So You take around 17% less dmg on shields then You would take on armor agaisnt 50% crit chance enemie which is not so often seen lately. If enemie would have 40% crit which is closer to current average value then it would be around 10%.
Ah yes, forgot to take into account how mitigation affects the crit dmg. But still, as you can see shields result in much less (16.875%) dmg taken in that example.
To be honest, it's really difficult to determine by how much shields outperform armor mitigation in terms of dmg taken reduced - different penetration values, crit chances, crit modifiers etc.
With 40% crit chance & 75% modifier, you'd still take 11.05% more dmg without shield (using your scenario of 10 hits):
6 x 850 + 4 x 1487.5 = 11 050
10 x 1000 = 10 000
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »Also keep in mind like @CyrusArya mentioned, Shields don't crit. So you can kind of think of them like a burst heal that doesn't crit.
Also despite crit not being as good dmg wise against shields - crit is still an important stat for self healing especially in CP as you can increase your crit healing quite a bit.
I personally don't have a problem with damage shields - if you've ever fought heavily outnumbered on a magicka build you'd know how poorly they scale outnumbered as a defensive mechanic compared to dodge roll or blocking. Also because they require active casting, it can be easy to die when hit with CC, and it also uses up a global cooldown on staying alive instead of going on the offensive etc.
But yeah, I've played both magicka and stamina and I think shields are quite balanced.
Well, it's not like that unresisted damage amounts to much - most of the 5/1/1 light armor builds (the ones that actually use dmg shields) get around 15% mitigation, where as a dmg shield can mitigate up to around 75% (depending on CP setup & class passives) crit damage.
E.g. 50% crit & 75% crit dmg build is dealing dmg to you.
Casting shield makes you take 15% more (assuming there's no buffs/debuffs/CPs that would affect mitigation), but you'd also take an average 37.5% less damage by not taking crits. Which is better? You tell me.
Your math is wrong here @DDuke . Lets make simple test and say we're fighting 50% crit chance 75% crit dmg enemie and we have 15% dmg mitigation from armor. Lets consider taking 10 hits each for 1k not mitigated dealt to shields and 850 with 15% armor mitigation dealt to us without shields
Dmg taken on armor
5 x 850 + 5 x 1487,5 = 11687,5
Dmg taken on shields
10 x 1000 = 10000
So You take around 17% less dmg on shields then You would take on armor agaisnt 50% crit chance enemie which is not so often seen lately. If enemie would have 40% crit which is closer to current average value then it would be around 10%.
Ah yes, forgot to take into account how mitigation affects the crit dmg. But still, as you can see shields result in much less (16.875%) dmg taken in that example.
To be honest, it's really difficult to determine by how much shields outperform armor mitigation in terms of dmg taken reduced - different penetration values, crit chances, crit modifiers etc.
With 40% crit chance & 75% modifier, you'd still take 11.05% more dmg without shield (using your scenario of 10 hits):
6 x 850 + 4 x 1487.5 = 11 050
10 x 1000 = 10 000
I updated my main post to add fact that if dmg on shields could crit You would take 18% more dmg on shields then on armor which could cause spending resources on shields that'll end up beeing bursted down anyway.
Why do damage shields still give 100% critical resistance? I'm not referring to only sorcs here either...
I'm just curious why it's needed.