Anyone Still Using Viper?

EdmundTowers · September 2017

So viper got changed to damage over time last patch. Anyone still using it? I'm guessing nightblades have all dropped it because they need burst and not damage over time. It needed to be changed as it was too strong anyways. However, I have a bunch of Viper gear and I want to know if I should just decon it all or if there is a class with niche build that can still make use of Viper. Or are other sets just better options now?

raasdal · September 2017

Viper is still good. Same DPS all round. In fact it opens up for other insane OP combos, which was not there before. Such as Viper+Poisonous Serpent (that one is nasty, trust me). But you are right, in that since it no longer provides front-loaded burst, it has been abandoned by many people.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2017

Ran it on my DW DoT build, it gave me another DoT to proc skoria from. So it changed in the way I can use it but doesn't vanished completely from my radar. Still neat. As I think of it, I barely run any DoTs outside of hurricane and enchantment effects on 2h/X on my Sorc, maybe PI if I slot a bow, so even there it could fill a hole.
Keep in mind that it is still one of the few unavoidable dmg sets. Way of the Fire comes to mind as a second. Have to think about if there are any more.

Purdomination33 · September 2017

As OP mentioned I think it is still useful but the application has changed. sDK's, sSorcs and whoever else rocks heavy armor can get good use of it. Fact that it procs Skoria adds another dimension as well.

Tried it on my sDK this morning but did not get into enough fights to make much of a judgement. What I have never liked from Viper as a DK is the lack of Stamina in the 2-4 traits. There isn't a good Stam-heavy heavy set to pair with it. Especially if you use Skoria.

But I can see potential just need to test more.

Izaki · September 2017

As far as proc blades go, Viper + Poisonous Serpent + Selene can really hurt, since it applies A LOT of pressure on top of the standard NB damage kit. Not as bursty as before, but frankly, just as strong when used properly.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · September 2017

It also still works well enough in PvE when you or your group is taking on dungeon/world bosses. It adds another level of DoT to help increase damage given. One of the annoying things about a lot of bosses is their near insta healing abilities. Viper along with points in the defile star in champ points helps cut down on a bosses, (or anyone's) healing.

KingJ · September 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As far as proc blades go, Viper + Poisonous Serpent + Selene can really hurt, since it applies A LOT of pressure on top of the standard NB damage kit. Not as bursty as before, but frankly, just as strong when used properly.

I have to test it but don't want to but if Posion serpent still double proc off of DW heavies it could potentially be more boost than before.

Nirn Axes with Blood craze viper and double poison serpent proc on top of a heaby surprise attack would be strong nice.

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

No, moved away from viper. viper proced before around 2k and now it was around 400 in my fights (fight log). Even with 56 cp in thaumaturge.

DDuke · September 2017

If you want a DoT set, you're better off with Sheer Venom as it provides much, much better 2-4 set bonuses and a longer duration DoT that can be procced from range with PI. You only need 5 pieces on one bar as well, as it procs from the first tick (so you can keep 5x on DW bar and swap to it after applying PI as you'd usually do).

KingJ wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As far as proc blades go, Viper + Poisonous Serpent + Selene can really hurt, since it applies A LOT of pressure on top of the standard NB damage kit. Not as bursty as before, but frankly, just as strong when used properly.

I have to test it but don't want to but if Posion serpent still double proc off of DW heavies it could potentially be more boost than before.

Nirn Axes with Blood craze viper and double poison serpent proc on top of a heaby surprise attack would be strong nice.

Poisonous Serpent has a 1s cooldown to it, it can't proc twice from DW heavy.

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

dont deconstruct it. done that often in past and then comes a patch or new perspective and you say damn.

Toast_STS · September 2017

DDuke wrote: »

If you want a DoT set, you're better off with Sheer Venom as it provides much, much better 2-4 set bonuses and a longer duration DoT that can be procced from range with PI. You only need 5 pieces on one bar as well, as it procs from the first tick (so you can keep 5x on DW bar and swap to it after applying PI as you'd usually do).

KingJ wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As far as proc blades go, Viper + Poisonous Serpent + Selene can really hurt, since it applies A LOT of pressure on top of the standard NB damage kit. Not as bursty as before, but frankly, just as strong when used properly.

I have to test it but don't want to but if Posion serpent still double proc off of DW heavies it could potentially be more boost than before.

Nirn Axes with Blood craze viper and double poison serpent proc on top of a heaby surprise attack would be strong nice.

Poisonous Serpent has a 1s cooldown to it, it can't proc twice from DW heavy.

Yeah, but you got to wait 2 seconds before swapping bars if you only have sheer venom on the bow bar. Otherwise it won't proc if you swap before the first DoT tick.

EdmundTowers · September 2017

*looks up poisonous serpent set*
Where to find: Hel Ra Citadel - one of the two 12 player trials introduced with Craglorn.
Notes: This set is bind-on-pickup

Dang it, I have enough trouble getting 3 other people to grind for gear in regular 4 man dungeons....

DDuke · September 2017

Toast_STS wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If you want a DoT set, you're better off with Sheer Venom as it provides much, much better 2-4 set bonuses and a longer duration DoT that can be procced from range with PI. You only need 5 pieces on one bar as well, as it procs from the first tick (so you can keep 5x on DW bar and swap to it after applying PI as you'd usually do).

KingJ wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

As far as proc blades go, Viper + Poisonous Serpent + Selene can really hurt, since it applies A LOT of pressure on top of the standard NB damage kit. Not as bursty as before, but frankly, just as strong when used properly.

I have to test it but don't want to but if Posion serpent still double proc off of DW heavies it could potentially be more boost than before.

Nirn Axes with Blood craze viper and double poison serpent proc on top of a heaby surprise attack would be strong nice.

Poisonous Serpent has a 1s cooldown to it, it can't proc twice from DW heavy.

Yeah, but you got to wait 2 seconds before swapping bars if you only have sheer venom on the bow bar. Otherwise it won't proc if you swap before the first DoT tick.

Oh, I meant the other way around (though you can also run it only on bow bar as long as you wait those 2 seconds). I run 5 pieces on melee bar only in order to get 4 Hundings pieces while on bow (and thus some more crits on PI ticks).

NightbladeMechanics · September 2017

No. It's a bad set in PvP, and anyone still using it should change to Spriggan's, Bone Pirate, Fury, or Hunding's.

There's a reason Sheer Venom and Vicecannon are also seldom used. Viper was getting 511 damage ticks against light armor targets in my tests at the start of the patch. PvP is a burst game. No.

DDuke · September 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

No. It's a bad set in PvP, and anyone still using it should change to Spriggan's, Bone Pirate, Fury, or Hunding's.

There's a reason Sheer Venom and Vicecannon are also seldom used. Viper was getting 511 damage ticks against light armor targets in my tests at the start of the patch. PvP is a burst game. No.

Sheer Venom is quite nice actually, it basicly "doubles" the amount of pressure your PI creates pre-execute and also doubles the chances of proccing Poisoned status effect. 2-4 set bonuses also heavily add to your burst (as a whole, the set only provides 41 less weapon dmg than Hunding's, which is widely used).

The 5-set also adds to your burst phase, as that DoT benefits from Incap's +20% and starts ticking for around 700-800.

I've never been much of a fan of Viper though, those two crit bonuses aren't very good for burst.

Drakkdjinn · September 2017

For me, Players that died before the nerf to viper still die after the nerf to viper, but now you got a few extra seconds to throw in a /laugh emote for maximum salt.

EdmundTowers · September 2017

I'm wondering with did all the eternal hunt, viper, selenes nightblades switch to. Did they just swap out viper for spriggans and keep the build the same or are they running something totally different now? Also, any DK's or Stamsorcs still playing the heavy armor, viper, tremorscale build? Does that still work?

raasdal · September 2017

EdmundTowers wrote: »

I'm wondering with did all the eternal hunt, viper, selenes nightblades switch to. Did they just swap out viper for spriggans and keep the build the same or are they running something totally different now? Also, any DK's or Stamsorcs still playing the heavy armor, viper, tremorscale build? Does that still work?

Procsets are far from dead. The single strongest no cp build in the game, is IMO still a Stamsorc with RM/WoF/Troll and some other secret stuff mixed in there.

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

No, moved away from viper. viper proced before around 2k and now it was around 400 in my fights (fight log). Even with 56 cp in thaumaturge.

thx to your thread, i actually checked it again. it has 5 dmg ticks per attack each round 400 dmg. So it still is like 2k in all. i think with 56 cp in thaumaturge its each around 500 but im not sure about this. But it never was in my top 2 dmging attacks since nerve. I will give it a try in duels again for further testing but for cyro im using werewolf hide now and very happy with it. So thx again for your thread.

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

EdmundTowers wrote: »

I'm wondering with did all the eternal hunt, viper, selenes nightblades switch to. Did they just swap out viper for spriggans and keep the build the same or are they running something totally different now? Also, any DK's or Stamsorcs still playing the heavy armor, viper, tremorscale build? Does that still work?

you dont need to be tank for tremor. its just the sword and shield attack you need. in pvp the taunting as this is irrelevant.

Betsararie · September 2017

It's trash now unless you're running a niche build that takes advantage of the DoT aspect.

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

tested viper now exessivly in duels, it just comes not above 150-200dps, my most dmging attack is about 400 dps in longer fights. Its a nice addition to the dps but i think i will not use it anymore. As i said for cyrodiil im using wwhide set now.

Morgul667 · September 2017

I tried Viper + Shacklebreaker + Selene + Maelstrom 2h axe on a stamsorc

It's fun ^^

Vanzen · September 2017

Vice (bow)/Viper (2h) /Veli
Disease enchant on bow
Damage health poison on 2h

Dont know but in BG it works quite well.

glavius · September 2017

Viper is great atleast for my build (hvy stam NB) . Around 15-20% dmg increase for one 5 piece bonus. No other set comes close for me

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

another idea would be to use it together with morag tong. can someone tell if and how morag tong works together with viper?

Arantesovelha · September 2017

EdmundTowers wrote: »

I'm wondering with did all the eternal hunt, viper, selenes nightblades switch to. Did they just swap out viper for spriggans and keep the build the same or are they running something totally different now? Also, any DK's or Stamsorcs still playing the heavy armor, viper, tremorscale build? Does that still work?

I'm using automaton+hundings+ veli/kragh

Good for ganking, but my recovery is a shame

inked1 · September 2017

Spriggans, Hundings, 1veli 1 kena
No regen no health no recovery
Pure gank

silver1surfer69 · September 2017

silver1surfer69 wrote: »

another idea would be to use it together with morag tong. can someone tell if and how morag tong works together with viper?

to be honest my overall dps drops by about 100 when i use another set, so i still use it in duels, but once i found a better alternative, i change. gonna try bones pirate for duels, but have to farm first.

Lexxypwns · September 2017

Viper is just a worse, stamina version, of overwhelming surge now. It's still decent and I like having another viable dot on 2h builds. The pressure is definitely still noticeable and I think it's best suited for stam sorc since they get the most benefit from the 2-4pc bonus.

It's simply no longer the unequivocal BiS for all stam builds seeking damage

DDuke · September 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Viper is just a worse, stamina version, of overwhelming surge now. It's still decent and I like having another viable dot on 2h builds. The pressure is definitely still noticeable and I think it's best suited for stam sorc since they get the most benefit from the 2-4pc bonus.

It's simply no longer the unequivocal BiS for all stam builds seeking damage

idk, I never saw it as BiS - Poisonous Serpent always did the same job, but better:

1s cooldown=potential for even more burst dmg
more dmg/proc
could be procced it with bow light attacks
better 2-4 set bonuses

etc.

I think the main reason more people didn't use Poisonous Serpent instead is because it's much more difficult to farm

Anyway, both sets are nerfed now so this is all irrelevant ^^