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Sorc kill counts

  • Derra
    Derra
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    Killset wrote: »
    Remove the timer on endless fury. There should be no preemptive executes in this game. Also change BGs so that whoever does the most damage on a target gets the kill credit.

    It deals less dmg than other executes and has a lower threshold than other executes for that reason.

    Also PI is another preemptive execute in the game - the mechanic is not sorc exclusive.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.
    Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

    Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

    But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

    No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

    The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.
    You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

    If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

    When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

    Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

    I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

    I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

    Because your whole point originally was that the leaderboards unfairly favor premade teams and that that should stop:
    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

    I'm not sure why you changed your argument's direction to say that solo queues can beat premades... that's certainly true but it isn't exactly lending any validity to your argument.

    Please help me understand what you're trying to say. To me, it seems like you're saying that premades have an advantage in teamwork and coordination, and that gives them an unfair advantage and that the leaderboards therefore shouldn't count their wins. I then said that if they win because they're premade, it's still a win, and still means they're the better group. Then you said that PUGs can still sometimes beat premades.. but that had no relevance at all to what I was saying other than to strengthen my own argument that the premade SHOULD be ranked higher in the leaderboards than the PUG, assuming it's the same leaderboard. Given the context of your discussion, I assumed you meant something else, but apparently I was wrong?

    Please Clarify your position.



    Lol are you serious. I never said the leaderboards currently favor premades or anything should stop...

    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

    Does this mean I caught you trolling?

    I'll remember not to take you seriously in future posts...

    Well played, mr troll, you got me ;)

    Loool you're the troll here. Key word is would because the leaderboards has nothing to do with wins right now, instead it's all about individual performance. Can solo queue right now and still dominate the leaderboards, what I was saying is IF they decided to CHANGE the scoring system to wins it'll be in the favor of pre mades.

    Albeit most solo anyways BUT doing that would surely make others start to group up more, that's if they care though.


    Leaderboards are pretty pointless right now, so honestly I don't get the fuss about scoring in general. Still for those that care and play solo I know they wouldn't like that.
    Agreed. But what about the sorc execute?

    Would you rather have (deathmatch) leaderboard points be skewed towards premades, which would occur if we made winning a major factor, or keep it skewed towards sorcs, which occurs because killing blow is a major factor?
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

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  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.
    Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

    Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

    But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

    No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

    The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.
    You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

    If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

    When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

    Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

    I've beaten plenty of premade team's, so no they aren't necessarily better. Hence the word NECESSARILY meaning they can be but not all the time.

    I honestly don't get how you can't comprehend that.

    Because your whole point originally was that the leaderboards unfairly favor premade teams and that that should stop:
    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

    I'm not sure why you changed your argument's direction to say that solo queues can beat premades... that's certainly true but it isn't exactly lending any validity to your argument.

    Please help me understand what you're trying to say. To me, it seems like you're saying that premades have an advantage in teamwork and coordination, and that gives them an unfair advantage and that the leaderboards therefore shouldn't count their wins. I then said that if they win because they're premade, it's still a win, and still means they're the better group. Then you said that PUGs can still sometimes beat premades.. but that had no relevance at all to what I was saying other than to strengthen my own argument that the premade SHOULD be ranked higher in the leaderboards than the PUG, assuming it's the same leaderboard. Given the context of your discussion, I assumed you meant something else, but apparently I was wrong?

    Please Clarify your position.



    Lol are you serious. I never said the leaderboards currently favor premades or anything should stop...

    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.

    Does this mean I caught you trolling?

    I'll remember not to take you seriously in future posts...

    Well played, mr troll, you got me ;)

    Loool you're the troll here. Key word is would because the leaderboards has nothing to do with wins right now, instead it's all about individual performance. Can solo queue right now and still dominate the leaderboards, what I was saying is IF they decided to CHANGE the scoring system to wins it'll be in the favor of pre mades.

    Albeit most solo anyways BUT doing that would surely make others start to group up more, that's if they care though.


    Leaderboards are pretty pointless right now, so honestly I don't get the fuss about scoring in general. Still for those that care and play solo I know they wouldn't like that.
    Agreed. But what about the sorc execute?

    Would you rather have (deathmatch) leaderboard points be skewed towards premades, which would occur if we made winning a major factor, or keep it skewed towards sorcs, which occurs because killing blow is a major factor?

    I don't really have an issue with sorcs, I'm for kill stealing to a certain extent, although I think the kill should go to highest damage done for your team. Or follow the trend of making assists count as kills.

  • WillhelmBlack
    WillhelmBlack
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    Since maining a mag DK I just got used to it.
    PC EU
  • Irylia
    Irylia
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.
    Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

    Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

    But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

    No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

    The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.
    You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

    If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

    When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

    Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

    I just q into bg's every once in a while for some fun matches while I watch Netflix. Premade or not, most of the people are bad and it is an easy wipe. The only game mode that is difficult as a solo sorc vs premade with a tank, is chaosball

  • Mojomonkeyman
    Mojomonkeyman
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    Derra wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    Remove the timer on endless fury. There should be no preemptive executes in this game. Also change BGs so that whoever does the most damage on a target gets the kill credit.

    It deals less dmg than other executes and has a lower threshold than other executes for that reason.

    Also PI is another preemptive execute in the game - the mechanic is not sorc exclusive.

    Oh Derra, come on. Do you remember our discussion back in the days when I refused to use executioners? You convinced me on some of your arguments, but i remember we agreed on one point: that it is stupid to have a saved up execution mechanic, which results in effectively reducing the targets entire HP bar by significant %.

    PI, as a dot, is not comparable to this - and I think you know that.
    Edited by Mojomonkeyman on September 6, 2017 1:56PM
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    Remove the timer on endless fury. There should be no preemptive executes in this game. Also change BGs so that whoever does the most damage on a target gets the kill credit.

    It deals less dmg than other executes and has a lower threshold than other executes for that reason.

    Also PI is another preemptive execute in the game - the mechanic is not sorc exclusive.

    Oh Derra, come on. Do you remember our discussion back in the days when I refused to use executioners? You convinced me on some of your arguments, but i remember we agreed on one point: that it is stupid to have a saved up execution mechanic, which results in effectively reducing the targets entire HP bar by significant %.

    PI, as a dot, is not comparable to this - and I think you know that.

    Which sorc execute no longer does effectively.
    Sorc execute is the only execute mechanic i survive more often than i die to it - mainly because it´s considerably less dmg than executioner or NB finisher (both mag and stam).

    I could live with sorc execute dealing more dmg and having a higher execute threshold though - if they mechanical delay related to the animation would get fixed.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • scipionumatia
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    This post is so true. Even out of death match BGS that sorc execute is so broken it needs to be changed. why is It fair to have a perfectly timed execute skill linger on a target for 4 seconds. it needs to be inline with every other execute in the game where you actually need to press the button while in execute range to get the bonus damage.
    Kill faster?
    How? I burst them down, then as I'm spamming my execute mages wrath goes off as soon as their health hits the threshold.

    one more reason why sorc is #easymode

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  • Minno
    Minno
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    Irylia wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    The problem with making it more win oriented is that it would favor pre-made teams, so unless you offer solo queue only & have separate leaderboards as well, it's not going to work.
    Premade teams SHOULD be higher in the leaderboards because they are better... that's like saying groups who do vet dungeons through the group finder should be just as highly ranked as the premade groups... that just doesn't make sense.

    Separating the queues out would be a bad idea because we barely have enough players as-is.

    But I would be OK with having two separate leaderboards - if you queue up in a premade, your points goto the premade leaderboard, and if you queue up solo your points go to the solo leaderboard.

    No you can't really compare pve & pvp for starters and just because you're in a group doesn't mean you're necessarily better than a team that's random.

    The advantage they have usually is communication & not getting grouped with someone who doesn't really know what they're doing. It's little things as such that can make mediocre teams look better than they actually are. Plus they'll never do that because it'll turn more player's away rather than bringing more in.
    You've got to be trolling me. A team that's organized is definitely better than a team that isn't organized. It might not have better individual players, but it's a better team.

    If you want to measure individual player ability, go duel people.

    When two teams play each other, whichever one wins is better... the premade might be better BECAUSE it's more organized, but it's still better... it still won...

    Separate leaderboards for solo queue and for premade would give you what you want. Just don't go down the scrub path of thinking "they beat me because of X, which I didn't use, therefore I'm still better".

    I just q into bg's every once in a while for some fun matches while I watch Netflix. Premade or not, most of the people are bad and it is an easy wipe. The only game mode that is difficult as a solo sorc vs premade with a tank, is chaosball

    "Netflix and Kill"
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Killset
    Killset
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    Derra wrote: »
    Killset wrote: »
    Remove the timer on endless fury. There should be no preemptive executes in this game. Also change BGs so that whoever does the most damage on a target gets the kill credit.

    It deals less dmg than other executes and has a lower threshold than other executes for that reason.

    Also PI is another preemptive execute in the game - the mechanic is not sorc exclusive.

    Then give it a 25% threshold and take the timer away. And give poison injection a flat DOT, that's fine. FYI I never said it was Sorc exclusive. A person shouldn't have a ticking time bomb on them, effectively lowering their health by 20%. See!? Problem solved!!

    P.S. The damage is plenty enough to burst many non shielded targets from 20-0% instantly, with no time to react. Battlegrounds is proof of that. An execute can tool tip for 1,000,000 damage but if all I need is enough to take everyone from 20-0, what does it matter?

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