I am disgusted...

Vimora · September 2017

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

Betheny · September 2017

10 Get an addon that shows group damage so you can kick them; else if on console then buy a PC and goto 10

SquareSausage · September 2017

Noobs will be Noobs.

mobicera · September 2017

Just don't que as a tank or healer without at least one dps you know is decent.
Not a great solution but sadly probably the best you will get...
If you are the dps I dunno carry the group, preform or just drop...
But I feel you I love playing my healer but I just can't be bothered to pug with her anymore, 5k dps in vet dungeons just isn't fun for me...

DocFrost72 · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

Hate to break it to you, but part of the random in random group dungeon is your group. You are not guaranteed anything at all. If you feel a member of your group is underperforming, you can initiate a vote. If the vote fails, it means that person had met the standards of the other three. If you choose to leave, that is your choice.

I'd say offer tips to newbs but I have a feeling I kow how that'd go.

DRXHarbinger · September 2017

Much entitlement. How dare someone buy a game and play it.

Trashkan · September 2017

Hey now I am pulling 12k with my level 27 Khajiit. Just cause he's fat and challenged doesn't mean he can't play.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

So what's the solution?

Get yourself a guild. Make friends. Socialize. Run with them. Problem solved.

bebynnag · September 2017

Trashkan wrote: »

Hey now I am pulling 12k with my level 27 Khajiit. Just cause he's fat and challenged doesn't mean he can't play.

but 12K DPS is more than adequate for normal dungeons & most non DLC vet dungeons!

iiYuki · September 2017

Tbh I don't think they know, when I started for the longest time I played without a meter and with whatever was cool looking, stats were meaningless to me and I wore a full health set of heavy armour on my sorcerer, then I read about light armour passives, preferable stats, best sets and average dps, realised my dps was awful and copied a build and tripled if not quadrupled my output purely with swapping skills, attributes and using food to replace low stats.
I think that dps group meters should come back never saw a problem in world of warcraft with them in the 4 years I played, outside players saying "wow your dps is ***" to people.
It is the problem with being so open to customization, in wow my mage couldn't wear heavy armour they wore gear with stats for my spec the same as all classes.

Zypheran · September 2017

[

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

You literally felt nauseated or repulsed by somebody with low DPS?!
A bit extreme don't you think?
Everyone has low DPS at the beginning. Its new players coming in every week (with their low DSP) that keeps this game alive.

Magdalina · September 2017

But they're just playing how they want! And then wonder why no one wants to pug as tank or healer. Weird right?

WuffyCerulei · September 2017

If it's normal, then I wouldn't complain. I can more than carry the other dps in a normal dungeon, as I've soloed a lot of em. Vet, however, if the person refuses to do more than spam heavy attacks, I need to leave.

theamazingx · September 2017

Zypheran wrote: »

[

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

You literally felt nauseated or repulsed by somebody with low DPS?!
A bit extreme don't you think?
Everyone has low DPS at the beginning. Its new players coming in every week (with their low DSP) that keeps this game alive.

In the beginning? You realize that many of the players in question are cp300+, right?

Vimora · September 2017

iiYuki wrote: »

Tbh I don't think they know, when I started for the longest time I played without a meter and with whatever was cool looking, stats were meaningless to me and I wore a full health set of heavy armour on my sorcerer, then I read about light armour passives, preferable stats, best sets and average dps, realised my dps was awful and copied a build and tripled if not quadrupled my output purely with swapping skills, attributes and using food to replace low stats.
I think that dps group meters should come back never saw a problem in world of warcraft with them in the 4 years I played, outside players saying "wow your dps is ***" to people.
It is the problem with being so open to customization, in wow my mage couldn't wear heavy armour they wore gear with stats for my spec the same as all classes.

You have a good point. Unfortunately, this just augments the problem. Who would want to kick a noob just because they are trying to learn the ropes? That'd be aweful.

However, the situation is still very unpleasant. When I started playing, I leveled up my first character in a few days just doing dungeons. It was a healing templar for quick queuing and easy gameplay. Most groups were fine, that's why I could level up so fast. But today? Most groups, and I mean the vast majority of them, can't dps. They all fail on dps. You know for a fact that if you don't quit, you won't be able to finish endboss and you'll have just wasted an hour. And yet somehow you still stick around and end up feeling bitter and make posts like this to blow off steam.

EttinTheBreton · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

[snip] So what's the solution? [snip]

Your frustration is understandable, but your anger is misplaced. I think a solution would be to nicely offer suggestions of improvement to them (or direct them to your favorite helpful YouTubers, such as the lovely @MissBizz , Kevduit, Deltia, and others).

I was a new player in May, and now I'm helping new players that join my guild to learn how to play competitively. There were a few key moments where people helped me:

A guildie of mine mentioned how to interrupt enemies that have the red streaks of light coming from them (totally saved me from getting frustrated with spiders, just bash em!)
A person I was dueling introduced me to animation cancelling
A different duelist asked me about the sets I was using, and suggested I go for more spell damage
Many helpful people have stopped and taught me about boss mechanics in dungeons.

And now I'm able to understand most of the base game mechanics, which you must admit are not obvious without any outside help. I've helped my friends understand sets, front-bar and back-bar strategies, questing vs. grinding, and so on.

The solution? Be as helpful as possible. Do not shut down others because of their ignorance to gameplay mechanics that we ABSOLUTELY canNOT blame them for not knowing.

Vimora · September 2017

Zypheran wrote: »

[

Vimora wrote: »

Ok, I'm literally disgusted. How come so many people have the nerve to queue for dungeons when they do ZERO dps??? I'm not talking about tanks or healers, I'm talking about people who sign up for dps roles. They have zero respect for other people's time. They just wanna be carried. I can't stress this enough.

What happens when a healer can't heal? They get kicked. What happens when a tank can't tank? They get kicked. But what happens when both dps suck big time? An insanely long and tedious run that fails at the very end because they can't finish last boss. You can't kick them because 1) you don't know which one to kick, 2) they don't kick each other.

So what's the solution? Ragequit every dungeon right off the bat, when you see both dps suck? I could literally quit 60-70% of the runs these days if I do that and waste all my playtime waiting on CD.

Don't blame me for this rant. It's been a long time coming.

You literally felt nauseated or repulsed by somebody with low DPS?!
A bit extreme don't you think?
Everyone has low DPS at the beginning. Its new players coming in every week (with their low DSP) that keeps this game alive.

"Literally" is the most abused word, I know. So I don't use it lightly. Yes, I do feel like I'm gonna throw up when this happens each and every day and, sometimes, 5 times in a row over a span of 3 hours. And you keep going on, cuz you think it's impossible your bad luck never breaks and it never does...

theamazingx · September 2017

EttinTheBreton wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

[snip] So what's the solution? [snip]

Your frustration is understandable, but your anger is misplaced. I think a solution would be to nicely offer suggestions of improvement to them.

I was a new player in May, and now I'm helping new players that join my guild to learn how to play competitively. There were a few key moments where people helped me:
A guildie of mine mentioned how to interrupt enemies that have the red streaks of light coming from them (totally saved me from getting frustrated with spiders, just bash em!)

A person I was dueling introduced me to animation cancelling

A different duelist asked me about the sets I was using, and suggested I go for more spell damage

Many helpful people have stopped and taught me about boss mechanics in dungeons.

And now I'm able to understand most of the base game mechanics, which you must admit are not obvious without any outside help. I've helped my friends understand sets, front-bar and back-bar strategies, questing vs. grinding, and so on.

The solution? Be as helpful as possible. Do not shut down others because of their ignorance to gameplay mechanics that we ABSOLUTELY canNOT blame them for not knowing.

If players were commonly receptive to that kind of help, I'm sure it would work out. I've helped many players in my guild who expressed an interest in getting better. But if someone is pulling 8k on a boss, the help they need is gonna be a couple hours on a dummy and a few minutes at a crafting station. You can't teach a basic damage rotation via text in a few minutes and then go clear in a timely manner. When someone queues for <Insert Vet Dungeon Here>, they queued for that dungeon, not for basic game mechanic tutoring.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

Explanation.

*Tips hat to OP* Have fun being called rude, elitist or whatever for not wanting your time to be wasted.

Defilted · September 2017

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve this through group finder?

Should players be rated somehow and then put together based on the rating? Like 3 good rates and 1 bad one for example? Should you be able to determine the lowest rated players you will group with (This will of course make the wait longer).

Should rating determine what dungeons you can queue for in group finder? For example you must complete X dungeons at Y difficulty in order to qualify to run Z dungeon. Different dungeons could be rated differently. From easiest to hardest...

This of course does not stop people from forming their own groups and going into whatever dungeon they want, whenever they want.

If you start rating players internally within the system what would you rate them on?
DPS Overall
DPS Boss only
Healers HPS overall
Healers HPS Boss only
Tank, How do you mathematically rate a tank?

Should only DPS have ratings? So if I queue as DPS I am now in a rated queue. What is to stop people from doing what they do now and that is queue as a tank or healer?

Maybe we make the player with that character determine what they are going to queue as and lock them to that for 24 hours. This of course back fires if they choose a healer and they are DPS.

I understand it is frustrating. I have been there many times myself with players that are very clueless and refuse to interact with the group and take suggestions on Boss fights.

Just seems if we start to put systems like this in place it would make it worse not better?

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

Vimora wrote: »

"Literally" is the most abused word, I know. So I don't use it lightly. Yes, I do feel like I'm gonna throw up when this happens each and every day and, sometimes, 5 times in a row over a span of 3 hours. And you keep going on, cuz you think it's impossible your bad luck never breaks and it never does...

Why on Nirn do people who complain about PUGs all the time keep on PUGging ? Up to the point that it makes them feel sick ? That's literally beyond me...

MakoFore · September 2017

man if your going to run a random- be prepared for the good and the bad. its like playing pickup basketball at the local ymca, your not going to get lebron james, youre going to get some kids, some ok players and occasioanlly some college level players-do your part, try and have fun and remember its a game. but if you want to go serious- theres a place and a way to organise that too- but dont be bringing that attitude onto the public court superstar.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

EttinTheBreton wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

[snip] So what's the solution? [snip]

Your frustration is understandable, but your anger is misplaced. I think a solution would be to nicely offer suggestions of improvement to them.

I was a new player in May, and now I'm helping new players that join my guild to learn how to play competitively. There were a few key moments where people helped me:
A guildie of mine mentioned how to interrupt enemies that have the red streaks of light coming from them (totally saved me from getting frustrated with spiders, just bash em!)

A person I was dueling introduced me to animation cancelling

A different duelist asked me about the sets I was using, and suggested I go for more spell damage

Many helpful people have stopped and taught me about boss mechanics in dungeons.

And now I'm able to understand most of the base game mechanics, which you must admit are not obvious without any outside help. I've helped my friends understand sets, front-bar and back-bar strategies, questing vs. grinding, and so on.

The solution? Be as helpful as possible. Do not shut down others because of their ignorance to gameplay mechanics that we ABSOLUTELY canNOT blame them for not knowing.

If players were commonly receptive to that kind of help, I'm sure it would work out. I've helped many players in my guild who expressed an interest in getting better. But if someone is pulling 8k on a boss, the help they need is gonna be a couple hours on a dummy and a few minutes at a crafting station. You can't teach a basic damage rotation via text in a few minutes and then go clear in a timely manner. When someone queues for <Insert Vet Dungeon Here>, they queued for that dungeon, not for basic game mechanic tutoring.

Good luck telling someone some tips without them being sensitive and getting angry at you for "telling them how to play". People get kicked just for asking healers to slot ele drain these days lol..

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · September 2017

On console no one knows the group DPS etc but sometimes when I'm in vet dungeon (purely for lvling unduanted on warden), I'll get a really really bad DPS.
Like a complete noob (many have even been 660 CP lol).

My problem is if it's a dlc dungeon, then me on my stam warden has to carry us both which is hard very hard.
They say in a vet dlc dungeon normally min 20/25k DPS each single target. Also lots of AOE and obviously guys like this suck at AOE dmg.
Say he has 5-10k dmg, I have 25-30k (still getting morphs, passives etc).
It's not as easy as usually they don't follow mechanics either.

This guys right, in vet dungeons they should not join if they are like this clueless, go join normals.

Ps. before ppl say, we was all noobs in terms of DPS etc once, yes that's true for us all but I never pugged dungeons as a noob DPS.

theamazingx · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

"Literally" is the most abused word, I know. So I don't use it lightly. Yes, I do feel like I'm gonna throw up when this happens each and every day and, sometimes, 5 times in a row over a span of 3 hours. And you keep going on, cuz you think it's impossible your bad luck never breaks and it never does...

Why on Nirn do people who complain about PUGs all the time keep on PUGging ? Up to the point that it makes them feel sick ? That's literally beyond me...

Because finding 3 guildies of the right roles that are both free and interested often isn't possible, and a fair amount of the content has fixed mechanics that prevent it from being soloed. Also, support roles, who seem to have this issue the most (a good dps can carry 3 warm bodies just fine), aren't set up well to solo anyway. It'd be one thing if people were getting stuck with a very slow group, you can deal with that. But these are players entirely incapable of completing the content.

auronessb16_ESO · September 2017

I've played solo for 8 months, guilds never seem to work out for me. But all the hype about awesome group dungeons, people talking about trophy and helmets. I wanted to see what it was like. First few random dungeons were fun. I could hold my own, not die very often and not get left behind. I thought the random dungeons were based on average level of the group, and a mid-30's character would make it little easier for everyone.

Then I was placed in White Gold Tower. I didn't even know a person could be voted out, but I found out. Now I quit when I find out it is one of the Imperial City dungeons, I know I am not good enough and never will be. I've got better armor, better weapons, improved buffs and improve my skill selection and want to try again. I'm up to level 45 now. I can do PvE much easier. I like to try random dungeons from time to time, but the anger I get from some groups keeps me out.

I just wish the random (non-vet) dungeon would account for levels. A group of 100+ level people don't want to get stuck with a level 30, and I don't want to disappoint them.

medusasfolly · September 2017

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a uber PUG level? One that you had to pass a test to access?

Zypheran · September 2017

@auronessb16_ESO I think your experience was unlucky. The majority of players online are very friendly. You should give this content another try. Also, guilds can be great places where players of all experience levels can do content together without the aggressive reactions that can sometimes be found in PUGs

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

"Literally" is the most abused word, I know. So I don't use it lightly. Yes, I do feel like I'm gonna throw up when this happens each and every day and, sometimes, 5 times in a row over a span of 3 hours. And you keep going on, cuz you think it's impossible your bad luck never breaks and it never does...

Why on Nirn do people who complain about PUGs all the time keep on PUGging ? Up to the point that it makes them feel sick ? That's literally beyond me...

Because finding 3 guildies of the right roles that are both free and interested often isn't possible, and a fair amount of the content has fixed mechanics that prevent it from being soloed. Also, support roles, who seem to have this issue the most (a good dps can carry 3 warm bodies just fine), aren't set up well to solo anyway. It'd be one thing if people were getting stuck with a very slow group, you can deal with that. But these are players entirely incapable of completing the content.

Then the answer is not complaining about PUGs and set expectations upon others, it's to socialize more, get more friends, join more guilds, or more populated guilds. I can understand it's sometimes hard to set up 12 people for a vet trial, but for a 4-man dungeon ? Come on. You have 100 friends' slots and 5x500 guildies' slots. That's 2600 people to potentially choose from at any given time. More than you'll ever need. People who treat other people as people and not as objects have no problems with that.

Don't expect other people via the group finder to fulfill instantly your every wish. If you want to run a dungeon but can't because of lack of available people, postponing that activity until later is also an option.

(Pls note that "you" and "your" in the above paragraphs are meant generically, not you personally).

Fereldyn · September 2017

Nice to see us encouraging new blood.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar · September 2017

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

"Literally" is the most abused word, I know. So I don't use it lightly. Yes, I do feel like I'm gonna throw up when this happens each and every day and, sometimes, 5 times in a row over a span of 3 hours. And you keep going on, cuz you think it's impossible your bad luck never breaks and it never does...

Why on Nirn do people who complain about PUGs all the time keep on PUGging ? Up to the point that it makes them feel sick ? That's literally beyond me...

Because finding 3 guildies of the right roles that are both free and interested often isn't possible, and a fair amount of the content has fixed mechanics that prevent it from being soloed. Also, support roles, who seem to have this issue the most (a good dps can carry 3 warm bodies just fine), aren't set up well to solo anyway. It'd be one thing if people were getting stuck with a very slow group, you can deal with that. But these are players entirely incapable of completing the content.

Then the answer is not complaining about PUGs and set expectations upon others, it's to socialize more, get more friends, join more guilds, or more populated guilds. I can understand it's sometimes hard to set up 12 people for a vet trial, but for a 4-man dungeon ? Come on. You have 100 friends' slots and 5x500 guildies' slots. That's 2600 people to potentially choose from at any given time. More than you'll ever need. People who treat other people as people and not as objects have no problems with that.

Don't expect other people via the group finder to fulfill instantly your every wish. If you want to run a dungeon but can't because of lack of available people, postponing that activity until later is also an option.

(Pls note that "you" and "your" in the above paragraphs are meant generically, not you personally).

While you expect people to go your speed.