Shields being crit proof...

Waffennacht · August 2017

Scyantific wrote: »

Want crittable shields? Give em crit resistance and Spell/Armor Resistance values.

I wish this would happen - it's truly OP lmao

Lord-Otto · August 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@leepalmer95
Yo, man, can you give me a detailed explanation on what the issue with shields is?
I seem to be missing something. I realize a sorc rotating through all three shields is hard to kill... But honestly, a temp going full heal is hard to kill. A DK with reflects and selfheals up is hard to kill. A NB cloaking away and siphoning/vigoring is hard to kill. If someone wants to defend, he will defend. What separates sorcs from the flock?

Sorc cannot be crit.

A dk can flap wings, dragon blood is bad.
A templar can heal.
A nb can cloak sure.

I can crit all of them. I can use melee/challened/curse vs a dk.
A can heal debuff a templar
I can reveal/aoe nb's

I can't 'shield debuff a sorc stacking'

The fact that shields can't be crit literally makes some passives/play styles/races quite useless in pvp.

Anything with crit dmg boost such as templar/nb passive, nb crit chance passive is useless, khajitt passives are basically useless vs shields, skills such as power surge/crit surge that work off crits are made useless.

Crit is a very large part of peoples dmg, hence why most pvpers use all of a lot of impen in order to reduce this dmg. Sorc don't have to worry about that as that are immune...

Hence why sorc can stack dmg + survivability with 1 stat, be immune to crits and have hp bars bigger than their hp. If you don't completely kill a sorc and instead get them low, a ward then shield stacking makes it so they will not die.

In this patch a magicka user trying to kill a sorc is stupid, try killing them on a mag dk.

But shields can't crit themselves, unlike heals. They also have no armor. And the debuff is in the CP, with Shattering Blows. Impreg and Impen also counter crit builds.

As I see it, when you make shields like heals, this will happen:
You'll crit for 1.7x damage. Mitigated by impen for 25-50%, so let's say we're at 1.4x damage. Shield crit beforehand for 1.7 strength thanks to Elfborn and Minor + Major Prophecy. So you already lost damage in comparison to the current system. You're also a crit build with precise weapons, so have like 7k penetration. With 10k resistance on these "new" shields, you lose another 5% damage. About.

See? You could re-vitalize crit builds for shields, but you'd do yourself a disservice. You cannot crit shields because you don't need to. Of course, I get most people here just want to crit shields and don't accept the other changes like resistance. But that has less to do with a thought-out build diversity and rather is a sweet-talked sledge hammer to the balls.

And lastly, even with crittable shields, you'll still avoid crit builds in PvP. Because Impregnable tanks and stuff. You don't build around crits in PvP. You just take them as a bonus. So nothing would really change.

These cries for crittable shields are just a witch hunt. Because they have a mechanic that can be singled and pointed out.

Betsararie · August 2017

Serenityx wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why shields are resistant to critical damage in PvP? It seems like anytime I get a player under 45ish% health, all the have to do is pop a shield up and then heal. Then use more shields.

For the sake of balance.

So sorcs don't drop in .05 seconds. I know that is what you want.

Johnnny · August 2017

Shields are overpowered just in cp, (like a lot of things there), because of bastion and magicka rec cps.

Try nocp and you will see that pvp can actually be reasonably balanced, specially now that viper is gone.

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

Most sorc experts in this post can't kill a mag sorc if they were playing magdk anyway.

Autism is real.

EDIT:

yea, proper magdk vs proper magsorc. those get used to magsorc probably just delete their magpool within a minute. LOL

Minno · August 2017

Johnnny wrote: »

Shields are overpowered just in cp, (like a lot of things there), because of bastion and magicka rec cps.

Try nocp and you will see that pvp can actually be reasonably balanced, specially now that viper is gone.

You get more benefit through DMG mitigation that through bastion, since those percentages are calculated before the DMG hits the shield. The equation works where any incoming damage is first reduced by percentage reduced spells/CP. Then the value is subtracted from a shield. And finally block/resistance values reducing the final bit.

What these threads don't realize it's how you don't want sorcs to realize how much resistance they can stack easily. You all will be crying for more than shield nerfs lol.

WaltherCarraway · August 2017

Bastion CP is better for shield stacking.

(Yes! Yes!)

Johnnny · August 2017

Minno wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

Shields are overpowered just in cp, (like a lot of things there), because of bastion and magicka rec cps.

Try nocp and you will see that pvp can actually be reasonably balanced, specially now that viper is gone.

You get more benefit through DMG mitigation that through bastion, since those percentages are calculated before the DMG hits the shield. The equation works where any incoming damage is first reduced by percentage reduced spells/CP. Then the value is subtracted from a shield. And finally block/resistance values reducing the final bit.

What these threads don't realize it's how you don't want sorcs to realize how much resistance they can stack easily. You all will be crying for more than shield nerfs lol.

It makes sense but it's not straight forward. Bastion works for every type of damage, as it is boosting your whole shield, while each damage mitigation works for each type of skill. Bastion also has a better scaling than most reductions.

Of course, given the nature of the decreasing scaling in cp you need to distribute it trough the trees, but my point stands, cp breaks a lot of resistances for sorcerers, making it stronger.

Minno · August 2017

Johnnny wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

Shields are overpowered just in cp, (like a lot of things there), because of bastion and magicka rec cps.

Try nocp and you will see that pvp can actually be reasonably balanced, specially now that viper is gone.

You get more benefit through DMG mitigation that through bastion, since those percentages are calculated before the DMG hits the shield. The equation works where any incoming damage is first reduced by percentage reduced spells/CP. Then the value is subtracted from a shield. And finally block/resistance values reducing the final bit.

What these threads don't realize it's how you don't want sorcs to realize how much resistance they can stack easily. You all will be crying for more than shield nerfs lol.

It makes sense but it's not straight forward. Bastion works for every type of damage, as it is boosting your whole shield, while each damage mitigation works for each type of skill. Bastion also has a better scaling than most reductions.

Of course, given the nature of the decreasing scaling in cp you need to distribute it trough the trees, but my point stands, cp breaks a lot of resistances for sorcerers, making it stronger.

10% Hardy will reduce things like bleeds, dots, etc. Bastion just boosts your shield value up. If you can get a 7k shield via LA, you can boost it to 30% and get a 9k shield. 20% bastion will only boost it 1820 points for 56 CP. Hardy will give 10% for 43 CP, and there are other sources of % based mitigation. Plus your shield will cost 3.5-4k, skills do tooltip DMG while CP percentage mitigation is free and reduces the DMG before it hits your shield.

If we assume one player is hitting you, bastion is better. But in open world or BGs where the best situations is thay you will be focused down by other players, stacking Hardy+ele defender with at least 20% Ironclad/thick skin is much better because it reduces the DMG off things that ignore block or ignore resistance (like bleeds which can only be reduced via percentage mitigation not block or resistances).

Johnnny · August 2017

Minno wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

Shields are overpowered just in cp, (like a lot of things there), because of bastion and magicka rec cps.

Try nocp and you will see that pvp can actually be reasonably balanced, specially now that viper is gone.

You get more benefit through DMG mitigation that through bastion, since those percentages are calculated before the DMG hits the shield. The equation works where any incoming damage is first reduced by percentage reduced spells/CP. Then the value is subtracted from a shield. And finally block/resistance values reducing the final bit.

What these threads don't realize it's how you don't want sorcs to realize how much resistance they can stack easily. You all will be crying for more than shield nerfs lol.

It makes sense but it's not straight forward. Bastion works for every type of damage, as it is boosting your whole shield, while each damage mitigation works for each type of skill. Bastion also has a better scaling than most reductions.

Of course, given the nature of the decreasing scaling in cp you need to distribute it trough the trees, but my point stands, cp breaks a lot of resistances for sorcerers, making it stronger.

10% Hardy will reduce things like bleeds, dots, etc. Bastion just boosts your shield value up. If you can get a 7k shield via LA, you can boost it to 30% and get a 9k shield. 20% bastion will only boost it 1820 points for 56 CP. Hardy will give 10% for 43 CP, and there are other sources of % based mitigation. Plus your shield will cost 3.5-4k, skills do tooltip DMG while CP percentage mitigation is free and reduces the DMG before it hits your shield.

If we assume one player is hitting you, bastion is better. But in open world or BGs where the best situations is thay you will be focused down by other players, stacking Hardy+ele defender with at least 20% Ironclad/thick skin is much better because it reduces the DMG off things that ignore block or ignore resistance (like bleeds which can only be reduced via percentage mitigation not block or resistances).

BGs are no-cp.

I stand with my statement. In cp campaings you can have 14k shields, due to your higher magicka pool and bastion. Bastion will give you more than 1820 points because, even tho you have7k shields in no cp, you will have more base shields on cp, due to total magicka and more regen (that can give you more free space for having more magicka). For example, I have 30k magicka in no cp, but I can run Irylia's build and have 50k magicka in cp. That alone gives me a bigger shield than 7k, and with bastion, even more.

And like I said, Bastion will help you against all types of attacks, be it magic, elemental physical, etc, hardy will be only against physical. Obviously you need to distribute and I don't even think you sould have more than 50cp into bastion, but you shouldn't have less than 10 points on it, tho.

And, for the last time, even if you were 100% correct, my point still stands, cp's break the way sorcs and shields work.

leepalmer95 · August 2017

Johnnny wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Johnnny wrote: »

Shields are overpowered just in cp, (like a lot of things there), because of bastion and magicka rec cps.

Try nocp and you will see that pvp can actually be reasonably balanced, specially now that viper is gone.

You get more benefit through DMG mitigation that through bastion, since those percentages are calculated before the DMG hits the shield. The equation works where any incoming damage is first reduced by percentage reduced spells/CP. Then the value is subtracted from a shield. And finally block/resistance values reducing the final bit.

What these threads don't realize it's how you don't want sorcs to realize how much resistance they can stack easily. You all will be crying for more than shield nerfs lol.

It makes sense but it's not straight forward. Bastion works for every type of damage, as it is boosting your whole shield, while each damage mitigation works for each type of skill. Bastion also has a better scaling than most reductions.

Of course, given the nature of the decreasing scaling in cp you need to distribute it trough the trees, but my point stands, cp breaks a lot of resistances for sorcerers, making it stronger.

10% Hardy will reduce things like bleeds, dots, etc. Bastion just boosts your shield value up. If you can get a 7k shield via LA, you can boost it to 30% and get a 9k shield. 20% bastion will only boost it 1820 points for 56 CP. Hardy will give 10% for 43 CP, and there are other sources of % based mitigation. Plus your shield will cost 3.5-4k, skills do tooltip DMG while CP percentage mitigation is free and reduces the DMG before it hits your shield.

If we assume one player is hitting you, bastion is better. But in open world or BGs where the best situations is thay you will be focused down by other players, stacking Hardy+ele defender with at least 20% Ironclad/thick skin is much better because it reduces the DMG off things that ignore block or ignore resistance (like bleeds which can only be reduced via percentage mitigation not block or resistances).

BGs are no-cp.

I stand with my statement. In cp campaings you can have 14k shields, due to your higher magicka pool and bastion. Bastion will give you more than 1820 points because, even tho you have7k shields in no cp, you will have more base shields on cp, due to total magicka and more regen (that can give you more free space for having more magicka). For example, I have 30k magicka in no cp, but I can run Irylia's build and have 50k magicka in cp. That alone gives me a bigger shield than 7k, and with bastion, even more.

And like I said, Bastion will help you against all types of attacks, be it magic, elemental physical, etc, hardy will be only against physical. Obviously you need to distribute and I don't even think you sould have more than 50cp into bastion, but you shouldn't have less than 10 points on it, tho.

And, for the last time, even if you were 100% correct, my point still stands, cp's break the way sorcs and shields work.

14k shields on what?

The only time your even going to see a shield that high is on a mag nb or a mag warden with the passive 8% max magicka and necro on a magicka stacking build while using dampen and 5 light. In that case your only going to have 1 shield. And those tooltips are with around 15-20% into bastion already.

The previous point still stands about reducing dmg being more effective. All the other mitigation stats work without a shield as well. Even if bastion increases it by 2k~ its better to get more reduction via cp. Though with front loaded stars you will put some into bastion but it's not effective to stack a lot into bastion like pre morrowind.

Also theres a counter to all cp, there's a counter to bastion just likes there's a counter to master at arms and iron clad.

Biro123 · August 2017

I don't really rate Hardy and Ele defender much now since they nerfed it to a max 15%..

Much rather spend in iron-clad/thick-skinned/bastion - only putting leftovers into Hardy and ele defender. You just get less for your points. Pretty easy to get 51 in both Bastion AND Hardy without neglecting the others.

But I do usually run a high mag build in cp - which makes any %increases to shield-strength more efficient.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · August 2017

I think sorcs would be to squishy if you could crit shields.

leepalmer95 · August 2017

Shields would be useless if they could be crit.

Betsararie · August 2017

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Most sorc experts in this post can't kill a mag sorc if they were playing magdk anyway.

Autism is real.

EDIT:

yea, proper magdk vs proper magsorc. those get used to magsorc probably just delete their magpool within a minute. LOL

lol

never in a million years will a mag dk kill me. They'll just snare me.

leepalmer95 · August 2017

In a 1v1 mag dk eats a magsorc.

ak_pvp · August 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

In a 1v1 mag dk eats a magsorc.

Naw, its literally opposite.

MagDK is too slow and melee to deal with mines/streak, and DK isn't bursty enough to deal with shields, because their main stun is broken on 4k damage, then they can just shield again. They can also streak through talons, which is a bit of a wtf for me. DK is more for shitting on wardens and NBs.

A well timed meteor combo though can ruin a sorcs day.

bmannb16_ESO · August 2017

This looks like another sad nightblade thread cuz he can't 1 shot a sorc. Sorry sometime you have to work for the kill.