Difficult to say. Bit I think your consistency on dmg would go down, because you rely more on crit than weap dmg. But it would need to be tested.
I'd go for serpent mundus. Then go for mag & stam recovery drink or max health+mag & stam recovery food. Depending on how many magicka buffs/utility you use. Then put all your glyphs in weap dmg. Then you need to get a set that boosts your crit rating to an acceptable level. I personally use senche's bite for this purpose, because it gives both crit and weapon damage. This way you'll get really good regen, potentially very high weapon dmg and a okay crit rating. I think this is the best way to go for an alround build with good damage and sustain.
Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief is just so efficient. It gives 4 set bonuses worth of a stat. Serpent is only 1.5. Get your regen from a set like bone pirates and use thief. I too like more recovery, but don't underestimate cost reduction glyphs. They are a massive percent of each stamina skill cost.
I'd say anywhere above 30% is acceptable for non cp. As a nb this would be a bit higher. Like the other said, thief is nice. I have used it too for the longest time. But with the right sets you don't really need it imo, especially on nb. It's just that with the setup I posted, your stats will be very good all around. Killer regen and can get up to 4k weap dmg of you also add 1 weap dmg enchant to your weapon. It has no real weakness in terms of stats, except for maybe max stam being a bit lower on non cp. But your regen makes up for that.Difficult to say. Bit I think your consistency on dmg would go down, because you rely more on crit than weap dmg. But it would need to be tested.
I'd go for serpent mundus. Then go for mag & stam recovery drink or max health+mag & stam recovery food. Depending on how many magicka buffs/utility you use. Then put all your glyphs in weap dmg. Then you need to get a set that boosts your crit rating to an acceptable level. I personally use senche's bite for this purpose, because it gives both crit and weapon damage. This way you'll get really good regen, potentially very high weapon dmg and a okay crit rating. I think this is the best way to go for an alround build with good damage and sustain.
What's an acceptable crit level for pvp? It seems that in no cp it's just always pretty low especially on a 2h.
Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief is just so efficient. It gives 4 set bonuses worth of a stat. Serpent is only 1.5. Get your regen from a set like bone pirates and use thief. I too like more recovery, but don't underestimate cost reduction glyphs. They are a massive percent of each stamina skill cost.
Malamar1229 wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief is just so efficient. It gives 4 set bonuses worth of a stat. Serpent is only 1.5. Get your regen from a set like bone pirates and use thief. I too like more recovery, but don't underestimate cost reduction glyphs. They are a massive percent of each stamina skill cost.
For a playstyle that involves spamming a skill/second (like my magicka sorc) I found one cost reduction glyph to be about as powerful as the seducers 5pc bonus (8% reduction) based on an avg 3k cost spell (comes to 240 cost reduction or approx 480 Magicka regen value)
Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
Thanks for this. I'm running a stam sorc, including automoton in looking at around 3k wpn damage in no cp. I mixed things up last night cost reduction is indeed an interesting choice over regen glyphs, and the theif gives me more burst. But where I really noticed it is in my rally burst heal. Also slotting evil hunter so my crit is around 45 now.
Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
Thanks for this. I'm running a stam sorc, including automoton in looking at around 3k wpn damage in no cp. I mixed things up last night cost reduction is indeed an interesting choice over regen glyphs, and the theif gives me more burst. But where I really noticed it is in my rally burst heal. Also slotting evil hunter so my crit is around 45 now.
Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
You're thinking of the shadow.
Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
Thanks for this. I'm running a stam sorc, including automoton in looking at around 3k wpn damage in no cp. I mixed things up last night cost reduction is indeed an interesting choice over regen glyphs, and the theif gives me more burst. But where I really noticed it is in my rally burst heal. Also slotting evil hunter so my crit is around 45 now.
Sounds like you've got a mean build now. Fyi, glavius was thinking of the shadow mundus, not the thief. Shadow is niche and not as huge of an increase. You need high crit, in the high 60s and up, before you start seeing shadow be effective. He is correct though. High impen builds will impact damage... but then again that is the point of those builds. They are sacrificing to do it as well.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
You're thinking of the shadow.Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Thief value is reasonably easily calculated. On no cp, you can probably assume that on average you will do 25% more dmg on a crit (more vs. scrubs, but no increase vs. shields., and 50% more heal on a crit heal). This means a 2.75% dmg increase.
Now compare this to weapon damage value you will get by going serpent+weapon dmg, which will increase damage by a fixed value. If the fixed value increase gives more than the % increase, serpent is better for you. (but bear in mind heals are affected more by thief).
Generally for low weapon power / low stamina /proc damage setups, the serpent combination will be better. For high weapon power / high stamina setups thief will.
Don't listen to the "thief mundus is always better because it is equal to 4 armor piece bonuses"
Crit set bonuses are generally quite crappy in pvp, and therefore are not equal to other gear bonuses (for most builds).
Also bear in mind if you are a NB, crit is slightly more effective because they have 5% more crit dmg. (i know the passive says 10% but it doesn't give full value for some reason)
Thanks for this. I'm running a stam sorc, including automoton in looking at around 3k wpn damage in no cp. I mixed things up last night cost reduction is indeed an interesting choice over regen glyphs, and the theif gives me more burst. But where I really noticed it is in my rally burst heal. Also slotting evil hunter so my crit is around 45 now.
Sounds like you've got a mean build now. Fyi, glavius was thinking of the shadow mundus, not the thief. Shadow is niche and not as huge of an increase. You need high crit, in the high 60s and up, before you start seeing shadow be effective. He is correct though. High impen builds will impact damage... but then again that is the point of those builds. They are sacrificing to do it as well.
No, his analysis was correct for the Thief. You also don't need more than 40-45% crit before you start seeing big returns from the Shadow in PvP. The Shadow is a HUGE increase in burst damage, and it becomes consistent as you near 50% crit. Unless you somehow manage to pass 67% crit, any additional crit above 50% is largely wasted for PvP builds focused on quick burst combos containing few instances of damage, from a mathematical perspective.
The Shadow is the ideal mundus to run in PvP. People run the Thief instead when they can't get their crit above 40-45%, such as in non CP, as running the Shadow with low crit chance is inconsistent.
Again, this is for builds using quick burst combos containing few instances of damage (i.e. any PvP build aiming to kill with burst...), NOT dps parses over long durations of time.