Change PvE Nightblade Identity - Executioner Class

Avran_Sylt · June 2017

Namely a class whose damage output is phenomenal when the targets are at low health, but a bit below average when it comes to general dps.

Artis · June 2017

Other

I think it wouldn't change the identity - it's simply redistributing numbers and changing the dps-curve throughout the fight (if that makes sense?). Besides, it could affect PvP dramatically, where your NB wouldn't be able to even get an enemy to the execute range or on the other hand one shot everyone who they happen to run into with low hp.

That being said, NB indeed lacks something that makes it different from other DPS, I agree. And that's where I would start the changes.

Not even talking about numbers, consider this:

1. DK. You know you have a DK in group - you see someone standing close to a boss, breathing fire every now and then, dropping standard, applying that ST dot (embers? looks like 3 fire or poison stripes), waving the lash made of fire. Awesome!
2. Sorc. You know you have a sorc in group. You see the lightnings flashing, you see the lightning pool on the group, you see someone who looks like he's made of lightnings, you see the synergy pop up at least (they have that liquid lightning thing in rotation, so they always provide synergy to the group + minor vulnerability from all the lightning damage). Sometimes you see a piece of rock flying towards the boss and hitting it with a sound that makes you think that was a hard hit. You see their spammable - force pulse. Awesome!
3. Templar. You know you have a templar in a group - you always get a synergy again. You see someone waving a spear made of light next to the boss, you see a spear(shard) of light falling from the sky and standing there (and giving synergy), you see a beam of light melting enemies when their hp is lower. Awesome!
4. NB - what do you see? You don't really see twisting path, it's covered completely by LL and shard and orbs and all kinds of visuals. You don't really see CG, it's just not flashy. You don't see Strife and you don't really hear it other - the sounds is too soft. You do hear Impale in the end of the fight and sometimes you hear AW and see that bow (the arrow itself is not very noticeable) , but that's about it. No synergy, no cool-looking visuals that make people know there's a NB in group. Sap Essence used to help somewhat, but in the current meta it's not really used - just can't afford spamming AOE for too long + no one got time to change bars before the boss and it only really worked and was used on trash mobs before anyway.

In my opinion, that's where it should start. People should know there's a NB with them. They should see NB doing some cool stuff. People who play NB should feel like they are doing something cool that others don't do.

Edziu · June 2017

Sounds Interesting

Artis wrote: »

I think it wouldn't change the identity - it's simply redistributing numbers and changing the dps-curve throughout the fight (if that makes sense?). Besides, it could affect PvP dramatically, where your NB wouldn't be able to even get an enemy to the execute range or on the other hand one shot everyone who they happen to run into with low hp.

That being said, NB indeed lacks something that makes it different from other DPS, I agree. And that's where I would start the changes.

Not even talking about numbers, consider this:

1. DK. You know you have a DK in group - you see someone standing close to a boss, breathing fire every now and then, dropping standard, applying that ST dot (embers? looks like 3 fire or poison stripes), waving the lash made of fire. Awesome!
2. Sorc. You know you have a sorc in group. You see the lightnings flashing, you see the lightning pool on the group, you see someone who looks like he's made of lightnings, you see the synergy pop up at least (they have that liquid lightning thing in rotation, so they always provide synergy to the group + minor vulnerability from all the lightning damage). Sometimes you see a piece of rock flying towards the boss and hitting it with a sound that makes you think that was a hard hit. You see their spammable - force pulse. Awesome!
3. Templar. You know you have a templar in a group - you always get a synergy again. You see someone waving a spear made of light next to the boss, you see a spear(shard) of light falling from the sky and standing there (and giving synergy), you see a beam of light melting enemies when their hp is lower. Awesome!
4. NB - what do you see? You don't really see twisting path, it's covered completely by LL and shard and orbs and all kinds of visuals. You don't really see CG, it's just not flashy. You don't see Strife and you don't really hear it other - the sounds is too soft. You do hear Impale in the end of the fight and sometimes you hear AW and see that bow (the arrow itself is not very noticeable) , but that's about it. No synergy, no cool-looking visuals that make people know there's a NB in group. Sap Essence used to help somewhat, but in the current meta it's not really used - just can't afford spamming AOE for too long + no one got time to change bars before the boss and it only really worked and was used on trash mobs before anyway.

In my opinion, that's where it should start. People should know there's a NB with them. They should see NB doing some cool stuff. People who play NB should feel like they are doing something cool that others don't do.

I have no problem to nb visaul effects and skill sounds, as for me its fine as for nb as stealthy class

while execute skill - killers blade sound is perfect for those huge hits, this sound fits perfectly to this skill while to impale meh...this execute itself is very weak and you must refresh your every dot while finishing on magblade to keep your dps while on stamblade its hitting very hard and to not lose dps but also just increase this you need atleast refres rearming trap and poison inject to keep raising your dps with no need to refresh every dot

more problem is nb just dont have any synergy to group like every other class and is master of nothing while templar is master healer, dk tank, sorc dpps, warden..... wat? support I see only and nb good only with bursting from stealth which is not working in pve lol

Avran_Sylt · June 2017

@Artis

I agree that they are usually unnoticeable. but part of me likes that, it fits with the night theme. dark, assassin, not very noticeable. So, rather than flashy abilities, how would you make the NB pop more from the group?

Lots of people have been suggesting situational damage based on where the NB is attacking from (the back), so in raids having NB's in your group would mean you've got some other players positioned differently, or the entire group ball is positioned in a different area now since there's a few nightblades there.

This of course making NB's more cancerous in PvP ganking.

Edziu · June 2017

Sounds Interesting

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Artis

I agree that they are usually unnoticeable. but part of me likes that, it fits with the night theme. dark, assassin, not very noticeable. So, rather than flashy abilities, how would you make the NB pop more from the group?

Lots of people have been suggesting situational damage based on where the NB is attacking from (the back), so in raids having NB's in your group would mean you've got some other players positioned differently, or the entire group ball is positioned in a different area now since there's a few nightblades there.

This of course making NB's more cancerous in PvP ganking.

remove proc sets and problem solved

you wont meet to many 1shoting NB's from stealth with buff like you wrote as you can meet many 1shoting NB's now just thanks to proc sets

Avran_Sylt · June 2017

@Edziu

Ugh, proc sets.

Wish they had higher cooldowns but the cooldowns were based by target rather than a GCD. Though that'd likely be more strain on the network.

WalksonGraves · June 2017

Other

NB needs a rework but I don't think this is it.

Avran_Sylt · June 2017

@WalksonGraves

What might interest you?

WalksonGraves · June 2017

Other

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@WalksonGraves

What might interest you?

I wish nb was more like a shadow priest from WoW. As it is you have the option of pvp only stam gank or low dps magic with melee distance spells. Doesn't even get a damage type just "magic".

LiquidPony · June 2017

Other

... isn't that what they already do?

A big reason that Nightblades have high DPS (some of the best single-target in this patch, actually) is because Killer's Blade/Impale are extremely powerful.

Artis · June 2017

Other

@Avran_Sylt

I agree there are stealthy NBs and all. But in PvE they aren't using stealth and the only reason they aren't noticeable is because they have nothing that looks cool and used in endgame, well except for AW. For example, a Mark could be one such skill.

I also would like to mention, that not everyone rolls NB to play stealthy. Some of us wanted a Dark or Blood Mage type of build or a life-stealing tank, some of us saw "blades" and "speed" in the description and concluded they could build something from that. I mean, it's the Elder Scrolls and I don't think it's intended to for class to only play 1 way and not be cool

Long time ago, in 2014, life-stealing "sap" tanks looked cool and felt different. They used sap essence, they dropped Veil, they would use shades sometimes (there weren't many buffs to steal haha). Right now, Shades could be one such skill that shows NB's presence. As for the rest, maybe they could be changed a little just to look cooler and more noticeable? I mean, you can steal save that Dark and stealthy feel - just make red and black more saturated so it's not completely suppressed by other classes and do something with the shades - perhaps, that it gets buffed but it doesn't count and players can still get buffs?

Also, we could probably show stealthy NB's some love and make them look cool. Not just by positioning, but to make them use cloak in a pve rotation somehow.

@Edziu

Or you could just balance ganking around that positioning feature. Or maybe even affect it via Battle spirit somehow.

@LiquidPony

It's too early to say if it's the highest. The game still hasn't reached the equillibrium after the Update. But you're right, that Impale is a huge chunk of DPS. I think that's true about all executes and rotations with executes. Maybe OP meant to make that difference bigger - much lower initial DPS and much higher execute DPS than now. But that wouldn't be good for a NB. I mean, you still have to be there the whole fight and what matters in the end is total DPS in current content. Unlesss... They make enrage timer shorter and it's NEEDED for a group to have really high execute damage in particular.

KeiruNicrom · June 2017

Sounds Interesting

I like the idea. Weak targets are easier to assassinate so it fits the assassin idea that ZOS has with the NBs design. A change to the executioner and/or master assassin passives could have NBs deal more damage to enemies below 50% or something. And agony could be changed to an execution DoT like poison injection to see more use

Edziu · June 2017

Sounds Interesting

LiquidPony wrote: »

... isn't that what they already do?

A big reason that Nightblades have high DPS (some of the best single-target in this patch, actually) is because Killer's Blade/Impale are extremely powerful.

you are righ
and this is funny, example dps before morrowind from my experience with guildmates in trialgroups

magdk 50k
magsorc 55k
stamblade while normal fight before finishers 30k dps, finishers phase going to 40k dps

nb is gets his true dps while boss is at finishers phase
while my spammable skill was around 27k crit hits then my killers blade was hitting 55k-60k crit hits which is huge difference but only at under 25% time of full fight

Elevenstorm · June 2017

Other

I think we should just get rid of the class entirely.

Megabear · June 2017

Keep NB as it is

I like my NB the way it is.

dday3six · June 2017

Keep NB as it is

Low health can be as little as 19% but also starts at 24% for some skills. A "phenomenal" amount of damage would need to make up for the "below average" damage dealt during the vast majority of a target's health bar. That is way overkill trying to build a niche for a class. It would be broken in PVP and useless in PVE.

The reason classes do not feel unique has less to do with not having a niche role, and a lot more to do with share skills between all the classes.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Change PvE Nightblade Identity - Executioner Class

Change PvE Nightblade Identity - Executioner Class 34 votes