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The potential changes with update 14 seem bad at first, but are there any potential benefits?

ProbablePaul
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It's really easy for me to be up in arms about the changes coming with this update, as resource management is already pretty difficult for me as a bosmer magicka nightblade. I can't imagine how much more difficult this is going to be in update 14. However, one thing I never thought about was how much more likely I will be able to compete with other classes who are able to really exploit the current system for resource management. I am wondering if maybe, at least in PvP, it will be easier possible to kill people who seem to be have found a way to have unlimited resources. The concept of unlimited resources shouldn't exist, granted renewing them should be possible, and from that perspective I want to embrace the changes that ZOS is bringing in; I still worry that all of these changes are solely for the benefit of making the warden class seem more desirable, or necessary.

One other thing I am trying to see as a positive is that these changes will encourage people to be much more selective about how they build their character, and it should be impossible to be excellent at everything. No one should be able to be excellent at everything, otherwise there is no balance. There should be benefits as well as consequences when making a decision in your build; people should readily accept that, it's what makes RPGs so fun, choosing your role.

Well, what do you think? Am I just in denial, and making excuses for these changes? Or are there some real benefits we could see from these changes, some benefits to balancing that a lot of us have asked for for a long time.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself." - George Bernard Shaw
  • Vaoh
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    Well, it would provide potential benefits by clearing up a good portion of the current population of endgame PvEers holding all those leaderboards spots. This in turn would give progressing players trying to complete Vet trials no one to call upon for help though and a much greater incentive to quit.

    A large amount of endgame PvEers are already growing tired of ESO since they've played it for a year or more.

    You keep these longtime players happily around by:
    1. Offering interesting *viable* sets and playstyles. Having 2 monster sets (Grothdarr/Ilambris depending on class), 2 armor sets (Necropotence/Burning Spellweave depending on class), and 3 Minor Slayer sets (Infallible Mage, Moondancer, Master Architect all the same) become best in slot for all Magicka classes is boring. Stamina DPS are funneled the exact same way into the same builds.

    2. A decent amount of new, exciting, and more importantly difficult content. I've heard Halls of Fabrication is turning out easier than expected, though it is only a rumor right now and subject to change if true. Either way, the lack of content since Dark Brotherhood has essentially left ESO without real new content for an entire year, affecting all players regardless of playstyle. The way it affects me mainly is how much endgame PvE content will arrive with Morrowind. We seem to be getting 1 trial + 2 group dungeons on a yearly basis, which is hardly enough to maintain a healthy endgame playerbase (which we coincidentally do not have).

    3. Not ruining the game in one patch. Rather than utterly destroying all rotations and practically every play style we enjoy in ESO over the course of one patch, they should instead buff content to meet the strength of players utilizing the sets ZOS themselves introduced. If players grow stronger overtime due to stronger sets and higher CP, small nerfs for the sake of balance is fine. ZOS should not be forcing drastic changes which cause fully optimized, max level DPS builds to run out of resources within 30 seconds -_- every good DPS build on PTS currently casts DoTs and then spams heavy attacks. No other build comes remotely close. It's unbelievably boring and bad for the health of the game.

    You see...... unlimited resources is a PvP problem. In PvE you do not have unlimited resources if you want to stack high damage. The *only* way to have a maximum damage build while maintaining your resources in PvE is to have maxed out gear/CP, a perfect rotation, and a super-coordinated top tier group that 99.9% of players will never even have the opportunity to play with.

    With Morrowind, it is impossible to maintain resources remotely well with a max damage build even if supported by a top tier group. Group-provided resources via synergy have been nerfed significantly with the new changes since Necrotic Orb/Spear Shards restore the same resources and share the same synergy cooldown. More importantly, Necrotic Orb will only provide the synergy user resources, no longer helping allies. Many groups will begin playing with less of a group focus as before, since popping those resource synergies no longer help your friends. You absolutely will use a heavy attack build as well if you DPS.

    If you struggled with Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj, Hel Ra Citadel, Aetherian Archive, Sanctum Ophidia, Maestrom Arena, Dragonstar Arena, Cradle of Shadows, or Ruins of Mazzatun in the past, you are hopeless when Morrowind drops. You'll have to relearn the game and force yourself to use a specific build revolving around heavy attacks. Unless you are part of the 0.01% or less of PvEers, this nerf will be brutal.

    Those are my thoughts on this stuff at least.... however, this is just a complaint if I don't offer a solution.

    SOLUTION: Revert all sustain nerfs except those done to the Champion System. Work from there. If sustain still needs to be lowered for PvP, increase the resources gained from Necrotic Orb so sustain is possible without using Heavy Attack builds when the group synergies very well (practically non-existent as it is in ESO). Or just include a ton of sustain nerfs into Battle Spirit. Don't let Morrowind drop with the current mess of balancing we see on PTS! It has never been this bad PvE-wise!
  • ProbablePaul
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    I appreciate these perspectives, and since having made this post and read a little more I am finding myself drifting towards this patch being all bad. But these are good insights. Although, I don't think it's ever going to be realistic to expect ZOS to make changes to the game that only affect PvE or PvP. I think battle leveling or whatever it's called is the one and only thing ZOS did that didn't affect PvE players. My argument against isolating changes to PvE from PvP is that it puts too much strain on the development team as a whole, and further confuses the issue. Not to mention that this game advertised the inclusion of PvE as well as PvP elements, so it wouldn't be fair to dedicate more attention to one more than the other. Granted, in one way, there already are changes that are solely directed at PvE players; the way in which NPCs in trials and dungeons are calibrated only affects PvE gameplay and in no way affects PvP. So, essentially, because ZoS has to address NPC/player interactions in dungeons as well as class balancing, PvE players already possess a larger amount of attention from the devs.

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself." - George Bernard Shaw
  • LiquidPony
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    My first impression from PTS is that builds/gear will be more diverse because they've chopped the top off of the DPS curve.

    People just can't sustain max DPS rotations in all DPS-oriented gear anymore so there will be more flexibility in how you build your characters.

    Which is fine, I suppose (although TBH what I've played on PTS is slow and boring compared to the live game), but it'll be interesting to see if they adjust the difficulty or HP or time requirements for various PvE content and achievements, because some stuff is going to be pretty hard to do if what we get in Morrowind is anything like what's being tested now.

    They "lowered the ceiling," but if they didn't make the game any easier, is that a good thing?
  • wimhwimladimf
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    I doubt there will be any kind of benefits. If these patch notes go live, lot's of players will complain, possible go play other games, since we're not living in 2002 when there was only few decent games around. New AAA titles come every few months and ZOS will have to try harder if they want to keep their player base at stable number (im not even gonna mention growing, because that would require a lot more work). Give it few weeks until players realize what's the best build for each class and everyone will copy pasta it again, just like they have done it in the past.


    Whole Morrowind update looks like a cash grab and excuse of lazy Devs, because difficulty can be increased in many different ways. You can for example make better AI which will make fights more challenging, or you can increase mana/stamina costs and lower their regen to make the fights last longer which may also indirectly increase the difficulty, because the longer the fight last, the more chance that player makes mistake and dies. However some ways of increasing the difficulty are not as fun as the other, nor they require the same amount of work.

    Upcoming expansion will cost almost as much as top AAA title and if you take in to consideration that most player base is not happen about balance changes, i dont think ESO as a whole will benefit from it in the long run.
  • FloppyTouch
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    There some people that struggled with getting good dps I'm talking I had ppl in my guild having a hard time getting to 20k dps on my dps dummy. They ran out of magic or Stam really fast and had good gear full dps. This is on live right now these are the players that are going to get hit the hardest and ZoS said this is to help them lmao.

    Truth is pro players with 35-40k dps that run trials won't feel this they will adapt and do great maybe a little less dps, the new players or the ones struggling it's going to hurt. They already have a hard time and I don't see it getting any better at all for them.

    Same goes for pvp changes won't hurt them to much we are already use to getting poisoned all the time and learned to deal with it. A new player into pvp with 200-300 cp getting poisoned and the new changes to cp it's gg they are going to be even easier to kill.

    ZoS was suppose to help lower the ceiling and raise the floor but this patch will do the opposite the difference between high end players and Lowe end players will be bigger then ever.
    Edited by FloppyTouch on April 30, 2017 12:54PM
  • HoboSteveIrwin
    The positive effects will reach other game developers, who actually listen to their customers feedback, through the massive migration of players from ESO post-morrowind.
    Edited by HoboSteveIrwin on April 30, 2017 4:03PM
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