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Magic cheeseplars. Heavy armor still op. Proc sets still a problem.
LuminaLilly
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I've noticed more "Nerf sorc" threads resurface like its 2015, but what about the real enemy here, heavy armor sword and shield magic Templar who can somehow be extremely tanky, dish out massive damage and heal infinitely. And proc sets...it seems nothing has been fixed in homestead. Making em not crit is just asinine. I main a Magblade btw, I just switched to heavy armor and I am very hard to kill (lol), but I really shouldn't have to do that. I just lost it and conformed to heavy armor when I was dueling a stambalde and I got incap+Selene and one shot. Even He admit it's cheese.
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Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LuminaLilly wrote: »I've noticed more "Nerf sorc" threads resurface like its 2015, but what about the real enemy here, heavy armor sword and shield magic Templar who can somehow be extremely tanky, dish out massive damage and heal infinitely. And proc sets...it seems nothing has been fixed in homestead. Making em not crit is just asinine. I main a Magblade btw, I just switched to heavy armor and I am very hard to kill (lol), but I really shouldn't have to do that. I just lost it and conformed to heavy armor when I was dueling a stambalde and I got incap+Selene and one shot. Even He admit it's cheese.
also
-Heavy armor sword and shield stamina sorcerer
-Heavy armor sword and shield stam dk
- Heavy armor sword and shield mag dk
Edited by Apherius on April 16, 2017 12:16PM4 -
LuminaLilly✭✭✭✭LuminaLilly wrote: »I've noticed more "Nerf sorc" threads resurface like its 2015, but what about the real enemy here, heavy armor sword and shield magic Templar who can somehow be extremely tanky, dish out massive damage and heal infinitely. And proc sets...it seems nothing has been fixed in homestead. Making em not crit is just asinine. I main a Magblade btw, I just switched to heavy armor and I am very hard to kill (lol), but I really shouldn't have to do that. I just lost it and conformed to heavy armor when I was dueling a stambalde and I got incap+Selene and one shot. Even He admit it's cheese.
also
-Heavy armor sword and shield stamina sorcerer
-Heavy armor sword and shield stam dk
- Heavy armor sword and shield mag dk
Agreed. I think heavy armor and sword and shield needs a nerd. What if the physical resistance from snb scales off your max health? Encourage more pve tanks and less cheese in Cyrodiil.1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Until you embrace the fact that EVERY class can build insanely powerful characters you'll never enjoy Cyrodiil. I have one of those all in one heavy armor Magplars. Do you know why? Because I was tired of getting pounded on by stamsorcs last summer and spent months figuring out how to stretch the game to its very limits.
Forget everything you think you know about what's OP. Just look in your bank and keep equipping different gear until the numbers on your character sheet reach silly levels. It's much more fun than making salty forum posts.
Note: My original build a few years ago was gonna be an all in one heavy armor Magplar. I stopped it because I stupidly listened to some of the louder forum posters about how it wouldn't work "at end game bruh". When I started trusting my own instincts things got way better.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on April 16, 2017 12:22PM8 -
LuminaLilly✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Until you embrace the fact that EVERY class can build insanely powerful characters you'll never enjoy Cyrodiil. I have one of those all in one heavy armor Magplars. Do you know why? Because I was tired of getting pounded on by stamsorcs last summer and spent months figuring out how to stretch the game to its very limits.
Forget everything you think you know about what's OP. Just look in your bank and keep equipping different gear until the numbers on your character sheet reach silly levels. It's much more fun than making salty forum posts.
That's why I switched to heavy armor my guy, have the same dps stats while being super hard to kill.0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LuminaLilly wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Until you embrace the fact that EVERY class can build insanely powerful characters you'll never enjoy Cyrodiil. I have one of those all in one heavy armor Magplars. Do you know why? Because I was tired of getting pounded on by stamsorcs last summer and spent months figuring out how to stretch the game to its very limits.
Forget everything you think you know about what's OP. Just look in your bank and keep equipping different gear until the numbers on your character sheet reach silly levels. It's much more fun than making salty forum posts.
That's why I switched to heavy armor my guy, have the same dps stats while being super hard to kill.
Yup. Then you're on the right track. Trust me ... if you're willing to think that way you've already done the hard part. Now go into your skills and find something you can abuse that will annoy everyone else. It's balance via complete imbalance. Crazy, I know. It just is what it is. May as well embrace the madness.4 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every class has to build to its defenses.
MagSorcs dont have great burst heals...so they have to rely on shield stacking, via light armor and magick stacking. Ironically this pushes their damage further than other classes
Magblades are ***
MagDK relies on TAKING DAMAGE TO THE FACE then burst healing. Heavy armor/ sword and shield work best for them, (although LA build are possible in the right hands, just harder)
Magplar is similar to magDK although better at healing and worse at mitigating. Same applies to templar in Light armor as DK.
Most stam classes are equally defensive. Heavy armor pulls ahead slightly for stamplar and stam dk, stamsorc works better with medium,
Stamblade is ***
Imagine how much you would hate a templar if he could be just as tanky in light armor XD
And nightblades are just simply....really fkng hard to play, mostly because their defense relies on not taking damage at all through cloak...it doesnt really work in PVP environment as well as the other classes own defense.
Its why MANY nightblades just go full balls to the walls gank build...just easier to do7 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭Heavy armor is not the problem,the average pvper wannabe is. Currently cyro is full of 27k+ health useless tanks. It's not zenimax fault if everyone is so scared of being killed. The current meta is "OK,I'm bad so I'll just block cast abilities while we swarm some poor guy".2 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
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Well it sound more enjoyable that "Oh, that meta build beat me in <5s now I have to run back and die again the same way"Heavy armor is not the problem,the average pvper wannabe is. Currently cyro is full of 27k+ health useless tanks. It's not zenimax fault if everyone is so scared of being killed. The current meta is "OK,I'm bad so I'll just block cast abilities while we swarm some poor guy".@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."3 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭
Well it sound more enjoyable that "Oh, that meta build beat me in <5s now I have to run back and die again the same way"Heavy armor is not the problem,the average pvper wannabe is. Currently cyro is full of 27k+ health useless tanks. It's not zenimax fault if everyone is so scared of being killed. The current meta is "OK,I'm bad so I'll just block cast abilities while we swarm some poor guy".
I don't think that being able to kill only no cp players is enjoyable. Maybe I'm a strange one but I prefer to kill and be killed instead of just sitting holding block lol Absolutely no respect for those guys.0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭CP really arent the issue. We've gotten 100 extra CP since the CP cap was introduced with Orsinium, which isnt much. The crazy meta we have right now comes from 2 big issues, and both involve a ton of the new sets and build options they added the past year.
1) Offensively, a ton of the sets they added allow people to either stack their character sheet stats to insane levels or allow people to add damage procs to their burst. This in turn allows people to burst others down from 100 to 0 in 1-2 seconds.
They also added a lot of new abilities that have 0 counterplay, ensuring the damage your build provides can be delivered without a counter. Look no further than Eye of the Storm and Onslaught.
There's also a lot of old abilities that got overbuffed to the point of silliness. Soul Assault, Take Flight, Dawnbreaker, Backlash, Curse (to name a few). I dont care what anyone says, "block" is not a viable and consistent counter anymore for any build that's not a heavy armour potatoe
Look at Draugr Hulk stamina DKs... Im sitting at 46k max stamina and Im hitting people for upwards of 20k take flights (that are now undodgeable, nice). Another great example is necropotence sorcerers and nightblades...
2) Defensively, they overbuffed heavy armour by a mile to the point where it's basically a must have for any spec that isnt a bombblade, gankblade or magicka sorc. Youre literally shooting yourself in the foot if youre not wearing heavy armour on most other specs, so everyone wears it. This in turn means everyone is relatively waaay tankier than before.
Shieldstacking magicka sorcerers (basically the only spec that can still pull off light armour properly) are also much more difficult to take down than before because shieldstacking got a big buff with dark brotherhood (annulment absorbs physical damage now too). To support all this, there's also quite a few new (as in, made possible the past year) sets now that provide insanely good sustain. Amberplasm, lich.
The 2 issues cancel each other out, kinda. That 46k max stamina isnt just nice to have... I actually NEED that much damage on my take flights to have a realistic chance at bursting a heavy armour wearer or a shieldstacker. On the other side of the spectrum, try wearing medium or light armour if youre not a NB or shieldstacker and see how long you last against multiple proctatoes.
But what all these new overpowered build options have definitely done is levelled the playing field between newbies and experienced players. Even a total potatoe can wear heavy armour and be tough to take down, even a scrub can stack proc sets or 42k+ max magicka/stamina and be a threat. ZOS has succesfully transformed the PvP meta from being mostly skill based to gear based. I doubt that's accidental, given the gear grind they added with One Tamriel.
Edited by Valencer on April 16, 2017 2:14PM11 -
StackonClown✭✭✭✭✭LuminaLilly wrote: »
Agreed. I think heavy armor and sword and shield needs a *nerd*.
Agreed - Way too many *nerds* stacking heavy armour with otherwise light/medium style builds
Edited by StackonClown on April 16, 2017 2:36PM0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't think any specific spec is over performing right now. The problem is that CP allow you to create builds with any class that have no real discernible weakness. All classes and specs are capable of creating builds with no weakness.
As a result, I think any direct class nerf atm is pointless and we need to see how the adjustment to sustain CP effects the overall balance.2 -
LuminaLilly✭✭✭✭I would happily play no cp if auras star didn't seem like an empty waste of a campaign slot.1
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TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭CP and gear do not enhance the basic mechanics and functions of the game. Attack Speed, Dodgespeed, Block, Active Regen Return, Stun Duration should be the mainstays of CP, instead they out to much passive stat bonus.0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not the set bonuses that make the player. The player is the one doing the killing, set bonuses/ weights just help. Some more than others sure. Ill give you that, but yall are acting like just cause a player throws on reactive/ blackrose/ malubeth he'll know how to play.
May i introduce you all to a player called Jack Daniel ESO on youtube? His builds are so anti meta it stupid...but he always seems to be able to pull it off.
Point is this, the game is still VERY much skill based, problem you kids are running into is that there are many more "GUD" players that there were three years ago. As the game gets older, players skill increase. Just like anything.
Also, certain classes perform better than others in certain gear types. I cant tell you how many times a nightblade mag/ stam spec was able to break away from a fight just because he knew and understood cloak/ shadow more than others. Even though most players complain like crap cloak is broken (it may well be i dont know).
Also, certain classes/ specs may be YOUR classes weakness. If i build for a mag sustaining templar in heavy armor with relatively low DPS (not glass cannon) i AM NOT going to defeat a mag sorc that has 50k magick and shield stacking. Defeating magsorcs require a finesse with timing CC and burst...my heavy blackrose magplar is not taking him down unless he straight fks up.
A mag sorc though may be cannon fodder for a stamblade specced for burst, but once again he is NOT killing my black rose magplar
Rock paper scizzors guys common.
You cant kill a magplar...learn to counter. Oh and soul assault is NOT op...its still so *** weak its horrible. The damage reduction on a 80k tooltip value may be reduced to 10k on a non blocking stamDK just through mitigations.
If you get killed from soul assault...you are struggling with skill or you are lagged2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not the set bonuses that make the player. The player is the one doing the killing, set bonuses/ weights just help. Some more than others sure. Ill give you that, but yall are acting like just cause a player throws on reactive/ blackrose/ malubeth he'll know how to play.
May i introduce you all to a player called Jack Daniel ESO on youtube? His builds are so anti meta it stupid...but he always seems to be able to pull it off.
Point is this, the game is still VERY much skill based, problem you kids are running into is that there are many more "GUD" players that there were three years ago. As the game gets older, players skill increase. Just like anything.
Also, certain classes perform better than others in certain gear types. I cant tell you how many times a nightblade mag/ stam spec was able to break away from a fight just because he knew and understood cloak/ shadow more than others. Even though most players complain like crap cloak is broken (it may well be i dont know).
Also, certain classes/ specs may be YOUR classes weakness. If i build for a mag sustaining templar in heavy armor with relatively low DPS (not glass cannon) i AM NOT going to defeat a mag sorc that has 50k magick and shield stacking. Defeating magsorcs require a finesse with timing CC and burst...my heavy blackrose magplar is not taking him down unless he straight fks up.
A mag sorc though may be cannon fodder for a stamblade specced for burst, but once again he is NOT killing my black rose magplar
Rock paper scizzors guys common.
You cant kill a magplar...learn to counter. Oh and soul assault is NOT op...its still so *** weak its horrible. The damage reduction on a 80k tooltip value may be reduced to 10k on a non blocking stamDK just through mitigations.
If you get killed from soul assault...you are struggling with skill or you are lagged
SA is a great way to easily identify who knows how to play or not. Haha.3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Not the set bonuses that make the player. The player is the one doing the killing, set bonuses/ weights just help. Some more than others sure. Ill give you that, but yall are acting like just cause a player throws on reactive/ blackrose/ malubeth he'll know how to play.
May i introduce you all to a player called Jack Daniel ESO on youtube? His builds are so anti meta it stupid...but he always seems to be able to pull it off.
Point is this, the game is still VERY much skill based, problem you kids are running into is that there are many more "GUD" players that there were three years ago. As the game gets older, players skill increase. Just like anything.
Also, certain classes perform better than others in certain gear types. I cant tell you how many times a nightblade mag/ stam spec was able to break away from a fight just because he knew and understood cloak/ shadow more than others. Even though most players complain like crap cloak is broken (it may well be i dont know).
Also, certain classes/ specs may be YOUR classes weakness. If i build for a mag sustaining templar in heavy armor with relatively low DPS (not glass cannon) i AM NOT going to defeat a mag sorc that has 50k magick and shield stacking. Defeating magsorcs require a finesse with timing CC and burst...my heavy blackrose magplar is not taking him down unless he straight fks up.
A mag sorc though may be cannon fodder for a stamblade specced for burst, but once again he is NOT killing my black rose magplar
Rock paper scizzors guys common.
You cant kill a magplar...learn to counter. Oh and soul assault is NOT op...its still so *** weak its horrible. The damage reduction on a 80k tooltip value may be reduced to 10k on a non blocking stamDK just through mitigations.
If you get killed from soul assault...you are struggling with skill or you are lagged
SA is a great way to easily identify who knows how to play or not. Haha.
Lmao, or who's awake or not, lol if I just hoped on, sometimes I spaz and try to dodge roll it :facepalm:1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not the set bonuses that make the player. The player is the one doing the killing, set bonuses/ weights just help. Some more than others sure. Ill give you that, but yall are acting like just cause a player throws on reactive/ blackrose/ malubeth he'll know how to play.
May i introduce you all to a player called Jack Daniel ESO on youtube? His builds are so anti meta it stupid...but he always seems to be able to pull it off.
Point is this, the game is still VERY much skill based, problem you kids are running into is that there are many more "GUD" players that there were three years ago. As the game gets older, players skill increase. Just like anything.
Also, certain classes perform better than others in certain gear types. I cant tell you how many times a nightblade mag/ stam spec was able to break away from a fight just because he knew and understood cloak/ shadow more than others. Even though most players complain like crap cloak is broken (it may well be i dont know).
Also, certain classes/ specs may be YOUR classes weakness. If i build for a mag sustaining templar in heavy armor with relatively low DPS (not glass cannon) i AM NOT going to defeat a mag sorc that has 50k magick and shield stacking. Defeating magsorcs require a finesse with timing CC and burst...my heavy blackrose magplar is not taking him down unless he straight fks up.
A mag sorc though may be cannon fodder for a stamblade specced for burst, but once again he is NOT killing my black rose magplar
Rock paper scizzors guys common.
You cant kill a magplar...learn to counter. Oh and soul assault is NOT op...its still so *** weak its horrible. The damage reduction on a 80k tooltip value may be reduced to 10k on a non blocking stamDK just through mitigations.
If you get killed from soul assault...you are struggling with skill or you are lagged
A lot of the people I fought a year ago still dont manage to keep their buffs up, still dont properly manage their resources, still dont CC break in time, still dont react in a timely fashion to anything and still dont manage to set up proper bursts by combining multiple abilities, etc.
The game has just plain gotten a lot more forgiving, and imo this isnt even argueable. A lot of people now just wear heavy and block a lot so they can stall the fight for a long time, if not forever. On the other side of the spectrum youve got total potatoes pulling off huge burst by just stacking proc sets... no need for clever burst combos if the gear does it for you.
Youre just reinforcing what I said earlier. Your black rose magplar wont die to a bursty stamblade... so basically the fight is already decided before it even begins, based on what gear you and your opponent are wearing. The game wasnt always like this.
Of course a soul assault will get me killed if Im fighting 4 people. Im snared for 4 seconds, forced to block for the whole duration while everyone is hitting me (in turn burning through about half my stamina bar on a medium armour build, at the very least) and then pray I can even outheal all the incoming damage. Thats the point, so many uncounterable auto-win buttons people can press now that just instantly end a fight.Edited by Valencer on April 17, 2017 11:54AM0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Easy, Snb Templar are a nuisance that make 1vX harder. On the other hand, good Sorcs melt faces. People dislike having their face melted more than dealing with a nuisance.
I personally don't have an issue with Sorcs.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1
