[Lore] Do you fault varen aquilarios for wanting to be a dragon and causing the events in eso?

Uriel_Nocturne · February 2017

Did he act as the catalyst for the events of ESO? Sure.

Do I blame him? Not at all.

Had Varen been even an inkling smarter, he could have possibly seen through Mannimarco's plan, and the whole thing would have stopped.

But due to Varen's vain idiocy, I get to have my Soul stolen, then go out into the world and seize enough power to be a Demi-God in Tamriel.

Without Varen's narcissism, my current situation wouldn't be what it is.

So... good on ya', Varen!

Acrolas · February 2017

For me, it's not what Varen did or his motivations for doing so. It's what he did after he did what he did that makes him irredeemable. He's not even an active participant in the consequences. He's just astral projection this, let me open a portal that. Hey, new guy, be my champion and get The Thing that defeats The Bad Guy. So *** him.

The sad thing is that there should be no choice. It's Varen's mess. We deserved to have future Chapters with Lyris and Sai as anchor characters. Not because they're the best characters. But because they're established and then needlessly thrown under the bus for no other reason than a choice in which weapon you want to deconstruct. That's not good storytelling.

catalyst10e · February 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

For me, it's not what Varen did or his motivations for doing so. It's what he did after he did what he did that makes him irredeemable. He's not even an active participant in the consequences. He's just astral projection this, let me open a portal that. Hey, new guy, be my champion and get The Thing that defeats The Bad Guy. So *** him.

The sad thing is that there should be no choice. It's Varen's mess. We deserved to have future Chapters with Lyris and Sai as anchor characters. Not because they're the best characters. But because they're established and then needlessly thrown under the bus for no other reason than a choice in which weapon you want to deconstruct. That's not good storytelling.

He was trapped in Coldharbour when we began the game, and He's a blind moth priest for the rest of it. It doesnt exactly leave room for him to be on the front lines with us.

Daimmyo · February 2017

Messy1 wrote: »

The real villain in ESO is obviously Sai Sahan!

While I think this is a bit of exaggeration, as a complete Redguard, I totally agree with this.

You shouldn't be that blind and that stupid to obey the greed of wannabe royal rulers.

Acrolas · February 2017

catalyst10e wrote: »

He was trapped in Coldharbour when we began the game, and He's a blind moth priest for the rest of it. It doesnt exactly leave room for him to be on the front lines with us.

If Varen were more like Chirrut Îmwe, we would have had a much, much more interesting story.

jedtb16_ESO · February 2017

nope.... he did what he thought was right....

which is all any of us can hope for...

tonemd · February 2017

I wouldn't call attempting to get ahead of challenges to your rule "good". Good business maybe.

He did not possess the humility to accept that he just was not meant to be a dragonborn. This was about unchecked ambition, pure and simple. He, Tharn and Mannimarco's were played. I include Mannimarco because, yes, he played himself. He and Varen are exactly the same, and share the same culpability.

As for his two true-believers, hired muscle, however eloquent, is often not the brightest.

JD2013 · February 2017

Varen was completely narcissistic in his attempt to become Dragonborn to rightfully claim the throne.

However none of his advisors said no to him.

And he did atone in the end.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · February 2017

tonemd wrote: »

I wouldn't call attempting to get ahead of challenges to your rule "good".

This. Varen was after the Amulet of Kings to legitimize his rule.

News flash for Varen: even the actual Dragonborn Emperors had people challenge their right to rule. Being Dragonborn is not a silver bullet to make all of your problems go away and have everyone roll over and accept you as Emperor without question. You want to be a legit Emperor, you need to act like one--take care of your people, defeat your enemies, build up the armies and/or infrastructure you need to KEEP taking care of them, get rid of the infrastructure that hurts them. Don't live the high life at the expense of the people under you. And getting hundreds of your own people slaughtered, tortured, their souls obliterated so they don't even get an afterlife?

That's a BIG expense.

Don't get me wrong; Mannimarco gets plenty of blame from me too. But Mannimarco is an evil slimeball; expecting him to act for something other than his own good is like expecting fire to freeze. Varen, however, should have known better than to take shortcuts. Failing that, he should have admitted his failings outright rather than lied to save face after the whole thing blew up.

Fly666monkey · February 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

I want to be a dragon

I know this guy in Akavir that can hook you up.

Jimbullbee85 · February 2017

I could be wrong but the way I percieved Varen was that his intention was to become a legitimate Emporer to strengthen the Imperial claim to the Ruby throne in order to keep the Akavir out and the dragonfires lit. Plan backfired. Instead of an Akavir invasion he got a daedric invasion. Are the dragonfires lit in ESO? Without a Dragonborn Emperor they shouldn't be....right?

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2017

I'd like to point out that Varen was a good leader who was misled by Mannimarco. Varen's goal was simply that he wanted order to come back to the land. It has been many many years since the stability of the Reman dynasty, and all manner of scummy individuals have taken their seat in the White Gold tower at this point. Varen was trying to bring order with his five companions and managed to more or less unite the provinces. The problem he ran into was a matter of Divine Right. He didn't have it, and this is when his two trusted sages and advisors told him he could BECOME dragonborn and therefore have the right of kings to stabilize the Empire. I applaud his intentions but of course he overstepped his bounds and we see what happened. Part of what makes Varen the tragic hero here is that he was tricked into doing the wrong things for the right reasons. He owns up to his failings and I appreciate that about the character. I choose him for the dragonization in large part because it gives him the honor of fixing the problem. Additionally, I have to say I really like the Obi-Wan Kenobi element to his story that follows thereafter. I hope they keep that element of the story as it continues forward. This actually makes me wonder if Talos had his own dragonborn Obi-Wan Kenobi thing going on, or even the Slave Queen. I feel like the sacrifice involved allows us to peer into the possibility of what happened in the past with other kings of divine right, and I believe the reason the Red Diamond is stolen away by Abnur is in fact because he wishes to gain the power of the stone for himself, and hold the newest dragonborn back. This is just my personal theory but I think it is a reasonable one. Could it be that the Vestige is somehow the ancestor of Talos that brings about the peace or could it be that each of our Vestiges are a possible past that would lead to the Emperor who saves Tamriel aka Talos? I don't know, but it is an interesting question.

Uriel_Nocturne · February 2017

I also never sacrifice Varen.

He doesn't get to get off so easily as to die by "noble sacrifice".

No, he must live out his days with what he has done, and the knowledge that an innocent died to help stop the problem he caused.

Life isn't fuzzy-warm kitten kisses. Life sucks, then you die and have your soul stolen, and you come back to make the guy who did it pay in sadistic psychologically damaging ways by not allowing him the easy way out.

(not to mention it helps the decision that; for your character, getting your Soul back is your primary concern, but Varen acts like it is some huge bother to him for the whole storyline...)

Danikat · February 2017

It's a bit late now but I just thought I'd point out that this topic has some major spoilers for anyone who hasn't finished the main storyline.

I came into it thinking it was all about the start of the story, so I knew enough to participate but I'm learning a lot about choices I've got coming up in the future reading this. Fortunately I don't mind spoilers, but it might bother some other people.

Maybe worth putting a warning in the subject or the first post?

Akrasjel · February 2017

I personaly had no issue with him

Dark_Aether · February 2017

Messy1 wrote: »

The real villain in ESO is obviously Sai Sahan!

Sai is just there for that "Snow lily" if you know what I mean. I chose to sacrifice Varen and Abnar fled with the amulet, so I imagine them in some far corner of Tamriel making caramel babies to the music of Barry White.

Cadbury · February 2017

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

The real villain in ESO is obviously Sai Sahan!

Sai is just there for that "Snow lily" if you know what I mean. I chose to sacrifice Varen and Abnar fled with the amulet, so I imagine them in some far corner of Tamriel making caramel babies to the music of Barry White.

Well, Redguards do have some impressive stamina passives...

kewl · February 2017

Varen dies in all of my playthroughs.