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So...I guess this is "balance".

Sandman929
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Since ZOS can't manage to make balance adjustments in between major updates. I guess after Homestead, this is what they consider "balance" until June. Heavy armor and destruction staffs for everyone (not that they'll save you from 4-5 unblockable EotS trains).
I guess I can always get on the stamblade and gank around the fringes of the zerg now and then.
  • Zander98
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    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.
    Zane Altise- The Drunken Sorc

    "The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head"-Pratchett
  • Sandman929
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    Zander98 wrote: »
    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.

    5 coordinated Dawnbreakers take out 4-5 other players...5 coordinated EotS take out 20+. Not even the same ballpark, or sport, much less the same thing.
  • BlackMadara
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Zander98 wrote: »
    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.

    5 coordinated Dawnbreakers take out 4-5 other players...5 coordinated EotS take out 20+. Not even the same ballpark, or sport, much less the same thing.

    I've seen Feng take out large groups with focused 3 or so focused db. Of course, that required a choke point.

    EotS is just easier to use. The thing is, it costs twice as much ult, has a 1.5s cast time, and just does damage. In comparison, DB has a knockdown and high instant damage. This makes it more bearable and balanced but not all the way there. It's hard to make EotS useful if it doesn't do much damage.

    It's not a problem with one person using it, but as you said, coordinated it is and still lacks less coordination compared to other ults (negate, banner, DB).
  • Zander98
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    I don't disagree with any of that....
    It's just maddening because, at least to me, it has an easy "fix".
    Zane Altise- The Drunken Sorc

    "The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside your head"-Pratchett
  • Sandman929
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    Zander98 wrote: »
    I don't disagree with any of that....
    It's just maddening because, at least to me, it has an easy "fix".

    I like that "fix" too. I think making it blockable is a fine idea, and it's still functional because it absolutely demands a shift to defense (whether it's running or healing or blocking) which then makes it a resource drain on defenders.
  • Valencer
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Zander98 wrote: »
    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.

    5 coordinated Dawnbreakers take out 4-5 other players...5 coordinated EotS take out 20+. Not even the same ballpark, or sport, much less the same thing.

    I've seen Feng take out large groups with focused 3 or so focused db. Of course, that required a choke point.

    See, the beautiful thing about PvP videos is that it's just highlights. 90% of the time if you try to bomb with dawnbreakers youll end up facing the reality that most people are just too tanky for dawnbreaker to do any real damage in between all the heavy armour users and all the blocking going on right now. Mix in some templar healbots and youre out of luck...

    EotS is just about the only ulti that still "works", simply because it's such high unblockable damage. At the end of the day it's the magicka builds that win fights in Cyrodiil right now, unless you can afford to literally proc people to death 1 by 1 somehow.
  • Lokey0024
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    That moment you get Incap striked for 9k with 3000 impen and realized there is no counter play because of fear making it guaranteed flush hit.
  • Brutusmax1mus
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    That moment you get with a 37k destro ultimate while taking gap closer damage, a fear, SAP essence and an execute... All from the same person.. while they can hit other people in the process.

    Incap has counters at least.
  • Waffennacht
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    That moment you get with a 37k destro ultimate while taking gap closer damage, a fear, SAP essence and an execute... All from the same person.. while they can hit other people in the process.

    Incap has counters at least.

    Wait...

    You can't mean "moment" you mean "on going @$! Kicking..."

    37K is not in a "moment" Lmao
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • Qbiken
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Zander98 wrote: »
    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.

    5 coordinated Dawnbreakers take out 4-5 other players...5 coordinated EotS take out 20+. Not even the same ballpark, or sport, much less the same thing.

    I've seen Feng take out large groups with focused 3 or so focused db. Of course, that required a choke point.

    EotS is just easier to use. The thing is, it costs twice as much ult, has a 1.5s cast time, and just does damage. In comparison, DB has a knockdown and high instant damage. This makes it more bearable and balanced but not all the way there. It's hard to make EotS useful if it doesn't do much damage.

    It's not a problem with one person using it, but as you said, coordinated it is and still lacks less coordination compared to other ults (negate, banner, DB).

    Don´t evaluate stuff from what you see on NA pugserver xD. Half of the stuff that works on NA would never work on EU
  • Own
    Own
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    fasallas has to go
  • KisoValley
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    Making Eots blockable = making it useless seeing as 95% of Cyro is in HA/S+B lol. Even Magblades/Sorcs are running S+B these days.

    The fix is to not allow gap closing when using Eots. People who want it blockable are just zerglings who don't know how to counter it.
  • SodanTok
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    KisoValley wrote: »
    Making Eots blockable = making it useless seeing as 95% of Cyro is in HA/S+B lol. Even Magblades/Sorcs are running S+B these days.

    The fix is to not allow gap closing when using Eots. People who want it blockable are just zerglings who don't know how to counter it.

    Isnt that the point? That you cannot counter it? There is no counter inside it, so the only counter is get out of it, but the attacker has the exact same counter called "I'm following you". You dont need gap closer to follow people. It goes through block, dodge, cloak. Two of those will even make you slower. Dodge will take you far enough only if attacker stands in place.
    Literally the only counter is having immovable+major expedition potion ready and being able to pop it and sprint away in less than 2seconds.... and then you get gap closed anyway.
    Edited by SodanTok on February 5, 2017 1:56PM
  • KisoValley
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    KisoValley wrote: »
    Making Eots blockable = making it useless seeing as 95% of Cyro is in HA/S+B lol. Even Magblades/Sorcs are running S+B these days.

    The fix is to not allow gap closing when using Eots. People who want it blockable are just zerglings who don't know how to counter it.

    Isnt that the point? That you cannot counter it? There is no counter inside it, so the only counter is get out of it, but the attacker has the exact same counter called "I'm following you". You dont need gap closer to follow people. It goes through block, dodge, cloak. Two of those will even make you slower. Dodge will take you far enough only if attacker stands in place.
    Literally the only counter is having immovable+major expedition potion ready and being able to pop it and sprint away in less than 2seconds.... and then you get gap closed anyway.

    That is where you're wrong. There is a reason organized groups rarely die to organized Eots bombers. We've found the counter. 2 skills, 2 different classes. Have 1 or the other, or both, and you counter Eots. Same for solo/small scale players. Only time I die to Eots is when 4-5 people pop it on me at the same time and I'm solo, in which case I'll die anyway whether it's Eots, Meteor or whatever seeing as I'm a mag sorc and can't block that many meteors in a row anyway. If there is only 2-3 I can easily move out of it and CC the people using it to stop them in their attempts at chasing me with it.

    Pug groups find it harder to counter yes, but it's not hard to work out which 2 skills counter people using Eots and 1 of these skills should be run by anyone playing the healer role. People underestimate the skill ran by healers, especially cause it bugs when people have shuffle on, but if one person pops this skill it can out heal 3-4 bombers at a time lol. Anyone with shufle is just unlucky if they dodge the ticks of this skill.

    I'm sure you can work out what these 2 skills are. Don't believe me? Play with these 2 skills. I'm a healer for my guild, and we coordinate 1 healer at a time to pop the healing skill when we get bombed or inc'd by another guild/pug group. It's a lot stronger than people think.
  • olsborg
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    If you go stambuild, you wear heavy armor, simple as that, medium is subpar by a longshot. If you go magicka build you can go light armor if your class has huge shieldstacking possibilities. If you are magplar or magdk you will go heavy armor, because heavy armor is just that good, even after tomorrows "nerf".

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Narvuntien
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    The soultion is giving tactical options beyond the bridge and gates.

    In open space you avoid EoTS by scattering the zerg and waiting out its duration. The problem is that they are happening on the bridge, nowhere to run and it wipes the zergs.

    It isn't like you can EoTS your way into a keep.
  • SodanTok
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    KisoValley wrote: »
    KisoValley wrote: »
    Making Eots blockable = making it useless seeing as 95% of Cyro is in HA/S+B lol. Even Magblades/Sorcs are running S+B these days.

    The fix is to not allow gap closing when using Eots. People who want it blockable are just zerglings who don't know how to counter it.

    Isnt that the point? That you cannot counter it? There is no counter inside it, so the only counter is get out of it, but the attacker has the exact same counter called "I'm following you". You dont need gap closer to follow people. It goes through block, dodge, cloak. Two of those will even make you slower. Dodge will take you far enough only if attacker stands in place.
    Literally the only counter is having immovable+major expedition potion ready and being able to pop it and sprint away in less than 2seconds.... and then you get gap closed anyway.

    That is where you're wrong. There is a reason organized groups rarely die to organized Eots bombers. We've found the counter. 2 skills, 2 different classes. Have 1 or the other, or both, and you counter Eots. Same for solo/small scale players. Only time I die to Eots is when 4-5 people pop it on me at the same time and I'm solo, in which case I'll die anyway whether it's Eots, Meteor or whatever seeing as I'm a mag sorc and can't block that many meteors in a row anyway. If there is only 2-3 I can easily move out of it and CC the people using it to stop them in their attempts at chasing me with it.

    Pug groups find it harder to counter yes, but it's not hard to work out which 2 skills counter people using Eots and 1 of these skills should be run by anyone playing the healer role. People underestimate the skill ran by healers, especially cause it bugs when people have shuffle on, but if one person pops this skill it can out heal 3-4 bombers at a time lol. Anyone with shufle is just unlucky if they dodge the ticks of this skill.

    I'm sure you can work out what these 2 skills are. Don't believe me? Play with these 2 skills. I'm a healer for my guild, and we coordinate 1 healer at a time to pop the healing skill when we get bombed or inc'd by another guild/pug group. It's a lot stronger than people think.

    Nice advices, is there "stop playing PVP" too? Telling pugs to be organized or nonhealers to be healers is very useful counterplay indeed.

    You cant say to noob dont go near me, they have vicious death, or use your skills properly so I dont die. But you dont have to say to them use your instawin ult do you...

    Why do you even talk about that mighty healing skill as "healing skill". It has name, your obvious attempt not to say it to sound smart make you sound dumb.

    //EDIT:
    I see you have no problem abusing addons to counter ganks, but people should get organized and get better to counter eots. Guess there is no point in discussing something like that with someone like that.
    Edited by SodanTok on February 5, 2017 3:28PM
  • Mr_Nobody
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    Nerf or rework or remove Purge = success in countering these aoe stacking groups.
    ~ @Niekas ~




  • Ankael07
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    Eye of the storm should go back to how it was at the beginning. Increase duration back to 12 seconds but lower the dot ticks so it doesnt change the overall damage. When it was 12 seconds nobody complained about Eye of the Storm because gap closers would almost guarantee you can inflict 100% of the damage. Now that damage needs NOT to melt you in a second or two.
    If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.
  • FloppyTouch
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    Yh and I guess viper sting and selen is balance stfu OP
    Edited by FloppyTouch on February 5, 2017 11:00PM
  • Sandman929
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    Yh and I guess viper sting and selen is balance stfu OP

    No they aren't. But at least they're single target unbalanced.

    No gap closing is definitely the better option for counterplay if ZOS leaves this ultimate's damage unblockable. I can't believe people are still offering the "just move out of it advice". Yeah, there are ways to deal with it in an coordinated groups, but I'd rather just admit that the EotS is far too strong when it's used by coordinated groups.
    I thought the idea was the raise the floor and lower the ceiling. EotS is simple, high damage, and I'm sure on paper it looks like anyone new to PvP could pick it up and be effective, but they aren't. It's the coordinated use of this ultimate that makes it devastating to new players.
    This isn't going to make new players want to stick around in Cyrodiil, it's going to drive them away because they will die constantly and quit out of frustration before trying to figure out how to deal with it.
    Plus...it's absolutely boring. I don't know how groups have fun running this way.

    Anyway...it looks like it's probably here to stay. And if ZOS nerfs it (a real nerf, not the garbage coming in Homestead) it'll be useless because they won't do something as simple as disabling gap closing.
  • Maikon
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    Valencer wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Zander98 wrote: »
    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.

    5 coordinated Dawnbreakers take out 4-5 other players...5 coordinated EotS take out 20+. Not even the same ballpark, or sport, much less the same thing.

    I've seen Feng take out large groups with focused 3 or so focused db. Of course, that required a choke point.

    See, the beautiful thing about PvP videos is that it's just highlights. 90% of the time if you try to bomb with dawnbreakers youll end up facing the reality that most people are just too tanky for dawnbreaker to do any real damage in between all the heavy armour users and all the blocking going on right now. Mix in some templar healbots and youre out of luck...

    EotS is just about the only ulti that still "works", simply because it's such high unblockable damage. At the end of the day it's the magicka builds that win fights in Cyrodiil right now, unless you can afford to literally proc people to death 1 by 1 somehow.

    That sentence made me lol, maybe you've forgotten about the broken proc sets that 1 hit even hvy armor builds. The broken sets that almost all stam users use.
  • Sandman929
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    What's really incredible, is that it's possible to accept and admit that many stam proc sets are too strong in terms of single target damage, while at the same time accepting that EotS is too strong in terms of AoE damage.
  • Lokey0024
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    Yh and I guess viper sting and selen is balance stfu OP

    You sound like a child with this reasoning.

    The fix is make it stationary. It cant be abused in duels that way and people who deliberately lag the game before using cant follow a group, land like 4 ticks, and merk everyone by spamming Gapclosers.
    Edited by Lokey0024 on February 6, 2017 4:29PM
  • Durham
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    What's really incredible, is that it's possible to accept and admit that many stam proc sets are too strong in terms of single target damage, while at the same time accepting that EotS is too strong in terms of AoE damage.

    EOTS is also extremely strong when used as a single target....
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
  • Sandman929
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    Durham wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    What's really incredible, is that it's possible to accept and admit that many stam proc sets are too strong in terms of single target damage, while at the same time accepting that EotS is too strong in terms of AoE damage.

    EOTS is also extremely strong when used as a single target....

    I've actually never had a problem with a single EotS. Sure it still hurts, but I wouldn't call it OP in that case. I'd say it's on Dawnbreakers level as a single target. Gap closing makes it strong, that should probably be disabled for the duration. Multiple storms combined with the radius and gap closing it what puts EotS in a whole separate league from every other Ulti in the game.
  • Durham
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    First i never said it was overpowered.. just extreamily strong as a single target...

    DB does not move with you <---- the main issue... ...much smaller... and it's a cone not 360... ...and does not do the same damage... it can get close if you use an empower and your a vamp...
    Edited by Durham on February 6, 2017 8:52PM
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
  • OrphanHelgen
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    They also balanced mag DK by nerfing stam DK. #Zoslogic
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact


    Finally a reason not to play League of Legends
  • Anti_Virus
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    olsborg wrote: »
    If you go stambuild, you wear heavy armor, simple as that, medium is subpar by a longshot. If you go magicka build you can go light armor if your class has huge shieldstacking possibilities. If you are magplar or magdk you will go heavy armor, because heavy armor is just that good, even after tomorrows "nerf".

    I guess you won't be happy until heavy armor is nerfed into the ground again.

    I can guarantee you if il forced to wear a dress and carry a stick, I will quit Elder robes online.
    Power Wealth And Influence.
  • Drakkdjinn
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    Sandman929 wrote: »
    Zander98 wrote: »
    Very few things can or should save you from 5 coordinated ulties. 5 focused and timed dawnbreakers could take down almost anyone.
    Agree with your point overall though. Makes you wonder how balanced the Warden class will be, no?
    And the answer to eots isn't nerving the damage....just make it blockable. Seriously....it's so simple it can make you want to scream. Lol.

    5 coordinated Dawnbreakers take out 4-5 other players...5 coordinated EotS take out 20+. Not even the same ballpark, or sport, much less the same thing.

    Quoted for truth.
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