Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »willlienellson wrote: »Do you have any idea how crazy that sounds? FOREVER?Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
World of Warcraft is 13 years old. So, you think Zos promised you that something it released in 2027 will be included in the subscription model created in 2014?
Reading these threads, if I were Zos, I would say, "Subscriptions now include access to Morrowind. Cause you say we promised. But subscriptions now cost $29.99 a month.
Seriously, would you people feel better if the subscription included what you feel "entitled" to but the subscription cost doubled or tripled in price? Or did Zos promise you content forever and the 2014 prices forever too? lolol
I don't care how crazy it sounds. It wasn't my promise. I once entered a contest for a lifetimes supply of Dr. Pepper. Silly company didn't know how much Dr. Pepper teenage me could drink. I wasn't worried about their semantic definition of "lifetime supply" if companies offer you something most people will take them up on it and get upset when they pull the rug out from under you.
willlienellson wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.willlienellson wrote: »Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?
... I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you.
A day later.......
*crickets*
*crickets*
*crickets*
willlienellson wrote: »I know a lot of people are complaining that this is an "expansion" instead of a "DLC" and will be sold for real world currency instead of accessible via membership and/or bought with crowns.
But I think it's instructive to consider this in contrast to the other offerings by this company over the last few months that people (myself included) have complained about.
People are always trying to judge the "ethics" of companies based on things like their social responsibility or their environmental impact, but way back in the day we judged a company's ethics by if they delivered VALUE to consumers. It's still one of the cornerstones of business ethics (for people actually in business) and is the other side of the coin of Marketing.
FIRST,
Make no mistake about it, the reason most items are sold with "crowns" is because it allows you to divorce the real cost of the item from the decision to purchase it. These imaginary currencies exist specifically to keep you from analyzing the value of the purchase.
Furthermore, once people are hooked into the stream of converting real world currency for imaginary currency, it's much easier to convince you to buy junk that has no value. If you literally pulled out a credit card to pay $35 for a mount, many of you would be forced to consider than transaction in the context of what other things you could buy for $35 in the real world. Going to the movies, getting an oil change, a new sweater, etc.
But when your real life money has already been converted to crowns, the decision simply becomes "which one of these few limited crown offerings should I buy"?
SECOND,
Due to that, it's very easy to make absolute worthless junk and sell it. Things like a child's refrigerator drawing of a reindeer stretched over a horse skeleton for 4000 crowns.
It's like the old Seinfield quote. "It's a show about nothing. So why would they watch it? .......Because it's on TV"
They are trying to sell you nothing. Why would you buy it? Because it's in the crown store.
This has led to a feedback loop of negativity and LESS VALUE. The worse the items are in the crown store, the more people save their crowns, the more Zos overcharges for even more unrefined junk in an attempt to get you to use up the crowns.
BUT THIS IS A BETTER DIRECTION.
Zos has my congratulations on both offering real value with this expansion (as far as I can tell so far) and offering it for a legitimate price in the realm of normal commerce.
Anyone complaining about the cost of this expansion and the demand of real world currency for it has been duped by the fake currency system of crowns. This expansion offers the best value offering by Zos in years, if not since the launch of the game.
This expansion comes with a costume, mount, armor converter, pets, and more. Prior to this, the most recent mount cost over half as much as this expansion by itself...and it SUCKED. lol
THIS IS VALUE. GOOD JOB ZENIMAX.
I hope they have tremendous sales and make massive revenue from this expansion so they return to offering real content, real value, for real money.
(too bad Homestead doesn't feel more that way)
At the end of the day the people whining are doing so out of greed or fueling the mock outrage "Zo$ must fail machine" .
Screw the fact that they are getting 3 DLC packs in 2017 (boo hoo you didn't get four in 2016 One Tameril needed to happen)
Screw the fact thet ZoS explained in horsey ducky terms the difference between a DLC and a boxed expansion.
Screw the fact that they aren't the first nor will they be the last developer to follow this business model.
The crying is limited to the same people who whine about everything and a few "everything should be all inclusive" snowflakes. I have the feeling that this expansion will have astronomical sales and pretty soon the haters on the forum will be making lame justifications on why that is.
willlienellson wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.willlienellson wrote: »Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?
... I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you.
A day later.......
*crickets*
*crickets*
*crickets*
Emphasis addedSo the idea there as it relates to DLC is I dont ever have to worry about what DLC is coming out when, I just get to play ALL OF IT.
Right
I've had to rewrite my reply to this a couple of times. I like you, and I don't want to push things too far.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Not really eager to have a unproductive pettifog war over semantics. You got really excited about the word perpetuity.
willlienellson wrote: »I've had to rewrite my reply to this a couple of times. I like you, and I don't want to push things too far.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Not really eager to have a unproductive pettifog war over semantics. You got really excited about the word perpetuity.
On multiple threads you have used the word "forever" and in my thread "perpetuity" to describe a promise you think you received.
Now, when called out on it, you shrink from your assertion.
Semantics is literally the study of the meaning of words. You are on a forum using the written word but saying we shouldn't assume "meaning" from your words.
Either Zos promised you every update to this game would be included in the subscription forever, in perpetuity, for the life of the game, indefinitely, etc......OR THEY DIDN'T.
Either the things you've been writing over and over again in every thread are false or they are not.
It's not fair to repeat a "TALKING POINT" over and over and over again in every thread and then accuse people of playing "word ninja" when they respond to your words literally.
I'm not interested in having a semantics argument either, which is why now, having witnessed you play fast-and-lose with your repeated language, I'm not going to debate the issue (with you directly) any more.
Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
(emphasis added)So the idea there as it relates to DLC is I dont EVER have to worry about what DLC is coming out when, I just get to play ALL OF IT.
Wifeaggro13 wrote: »willlienellson wrote: »I know a lot of people are complaining that this is an "expansion" instead of a "DLC" and will be sold for real world currency instead of accessible via membership and/or bought with crowns.
But I think it's instructive to consider this in contrast to the other offerings by this company over the last few months that people (myself included) have complained about.
People are always trying to judge the "ethics" of companies based on things like their social responsibility or their environmental impact, but way back in the day we judged a company's ethics by if they delivered VALUE to consumers. It's still one of the cornerstones of business ethics (for people actually in business) and is the other side of the coin of Marketing.
FIRST,
Make no mistake about it, the reason most items are sold with "crowns" is because it allows you to divorce the real cost of the item from the decision to purchase it. These imaginary currencies exist specifically to keep you from analyzing the value of the purchase.
Furthermore, once people are hooked into the stream of converting real world currency for imaginary currency, it's much easier to convince you to buy junk that has no value. If you literally pulled out a credit card to pay $35 for a mount, many of you would be forced to consider than transaction in the context of what other things you could buy for $35 in the real world. Going to the movies, getting an oil change, a new sweater, etc.
But when your real life money has already been converted to crowns, the decision simply becomes "which one of these few limited crown offerings should I buy"?
SECOND,
Due to that, it's very easy to make absolute worthless junk and sell it. Things like a child's refrigerator drawing of a reindeer stretched over a horse skeleton for 4000 crowns.
It's like the old Seinfield quote. "It's a show about nothing. So why would they watch it? .......Because it's on TV"
They are trying to sell you nothing. Why would you buy it? Because it's in the crown store.
This has led to a feedback loop of negativity and LESS VALUE. The worse the items are in the crown store, the more people save their crowns, the more Zos overcharges for even more unrefined junk in an attempt to get you to use up the crowns.
BUT THIS IS A BETTER DIRECTION.
Zos has my congratulations on both offering real value with this expansion (as far as I can tell so far) and offering it for a legitimate price in the realm of normal commerce.
Anyone complaining about the cost of this expansion and the demand of real world currency for it has been duped by the fake currency system of crowns. This expansion offers the best value offering by Zos in years, if not since the launch of the game.
This expansion comes with a costume, mount, armor converter, pets, and more. Prior to this, the most recent mount cost over half as much as this expansion by itself...and it SUCKED. lol
THIS IS VALUE. GOOD JOB ZENIMAX.
I hope they have tremendous sales and make massive revenue from this expansion so they return to offering real content, real value, for real money.
(too bad Homestead doesn't feel more that way)
I agree mostly. I do feel 40 bucks is steep for the features. It lacks any new four man pve, only 1 trial but if it's a large zone with multiple wings it would be in line with other expansions at this pricepoint. My biggest complaint is 95 %of the content is just solo questing with no real game system expansion. Like additional layers to the cp system. 25 to 30 $ would be appropriate compared to its competitors ability to produce features at the same price point
willlienellson wrote: »"Join Sprint's Unlimited Data plan and never be charged overages again"
Which means, SO LONG AS THEY OFFER THAT PACKAGE.
Nobody in their right minds would suggest Sprint is now obligated (legally or morally) to offer an unlimited package forever.
Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?
... I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you.
So the idea there as it relates to DLC is I dont EVER have to worry about what DLC is coming out when, I just get to play ALL OF IT.
willlienellson wrote: »NovaShadow wrote: »I didn't realise the DLC was already released.
It must've been for you cannot possibly say something is valuable until you've experienced it.
I've never bought a vial of crack.
I've also never bought a bulldozer.
Yet I can objectively say there is more "value" in the bulldozer than a vial of crack.
willlienellson wrote: »
But I'm not arguing with you. I felt like you were making it personal. You continue to do so. I'm not interested.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Oh the joys of arguing with you
Not analogizing anything. I just think the poster seemed to unaware that old sh!t goes on sale.Wreuntzylla wrote: »Analogizing a flat fee v. flat fee against a subscription v. flat fee?
willlienellson wrote: »But I'm not arguing with you. I felt like you were making it personal. You continue to do so. I'm not interested.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Oh the joys of arguing with you
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. As such, DLC may add new game modes, objects, levels, challenges or other features to a complete, already released game.
Vvardenfell IS DLC
Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
I'm OK with things changing, but I want ZOS to admit their business model failed, AGAIN, then they were forced by the bean counters to go back on their word, again.
In fact I will pay $100 for a special edition of Vvardenfell. They can keep the stupid dwemer statue, I just want it to include a signed handwritten letter from Matt Firror that reads "Sorry, we dun goofed again"
Indeed. If it makes you feel better, you can assume me not continuing means I have nothing to say, nothing of my own quote from the video you posted, and indeed am just "stumped' because I have "zero rhetorical skills".Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »snip
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Not really eager to have a unproductive pettifog war over semantics. You got really excited about the word perpetuity...
ZERO rhetorical skill ...
word ninja...
willlienellson wrote: »I've had to rewrite my reply to this a couple of times. I like you, and I don't want to push things too far.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Not really eager to have a unproductive pettifog war over semantics. You got really excited about the word perpetuity.
On multiple threads you have used the word "forever" and in my thread "perpetuity" to describe a promise you think you received.
Now, when called out on it, you shrink from your assertion.
Semantics is literally the study of the meaning of words. You are on a forum using the written word but saying we shouldn't assume "meaning" from your words.
Either Zos promised you every update to this game would be included in the subscription forever, in perpetuity, for the life of the game, indefinitely, etc......OR THEY DIDN'T.
Either the things you've been writing over and over again in every thread are false or they are not.
It's not fair to repeat a "TALKING POINT" over and over and over again in every thread and then accuse people of playing "word ninja" when they respond to your words literally.
I'm not interested in having a semantics argument either, which is why now, having witnessed you play fast-and-lose with your repeated language, I'm not going to debate the issue (with you directly) any more.
willlienellson wrote: »Semantics is literally the study of the meaning of words. .
Wreuntzylla wrote: »Semantics is meaning in words, sentences, paragraphs.... text generally. It includes contextual meaning.
Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »There is no such thing as moral obligation.
willlienellson wrote: »Indeed. If it makes you feel better, you can assume me not continuing means I have nothing to say, nothing of my own quote from the video you posted, and indeed am just "stumped' because I have "zero rhetorical skills".Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »snip
Or it could be that I read,Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Not really eager to have a unproductive pettifog war over semantics. You got really excited about the word perpetuity...
ZERO rhetorical skill ...
word ninja...
and then decided I was f'ing done.
Wreuntzylla wrote: »
You sure do continue to waste a lot of time arguing with someone you think might not be able to understand you.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I'm starting to think you have severe reading comprehension issues.
willlienellson wrote: »You sure do continue to waste a lot of time arguing with someone you think might not be able to understand you.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »I'm starting to think you have severe reading comprehension issues.