Lucius_Aelius wrote: »KisoValley wrote: »You can tell 1 person on this thread REALLY hates IC
If you mean me, I love Imperial City, I was in there just last night and always have fun down there, doesn't mean I want it imbalancing the AvAvA war outside by taking up essential population space.
KisoValley wrote: »You can tell 1 person on this thread REALLY hates IC
IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
We can have dailies that say "kills x number of this class, and steal 5k stones".
Then we can have "capture memorial, arena and arboretum district's and hold for 30 minutes.". They can pick the district's that present the most challenging and have it set as global announcement like they do when emp is crowded to promote district PvP.
The district's themselves need additional flags to punish zerging in one spot. Or the the district's themselves give a separate buff or the flags in each district can be attached to a grouping that lets players target them (control all house flags and receive additional guards at all faction flags etc.)
Just some open thoughts.
Lucius_Aelius wrote: »IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
We can have dailies that say "kills x number of this class, and steal 5k stones".
Then we can have "capture memorial, arena and arboretum district's and hold for 30 minutes.". They can pick the district's that present the most challenging and have it set as global announcement like they do when emp is crowded to promote district PvP.
The district's themselves need additional flags to punish zerging in one spot. Or the the district's themselves give a separate buff or the flags in each district can be attached to a grouping that lets players target them (control all house flags and receive additional guards at all faction flags etc.)
Just some open thoughts.
No offense but that sounds weak and not very compelling at all, nothing I can imagine would be remotely compelling without drastically and completely redesigning Imperial City from the ground up, and I along with many others like it the way it is and don't think it should be changed except to be separated, how about arguing against some of the points I made in my last posts if you want to convince us otherwise?
Lucius_Aelius wrote: »IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
We can have dailies that say "kills x number of this class, and steal 5k stones".
Then we can have "capture memorial, arena and arboretum district's and hold for 30 minutes.". They can pick the district's that present the most challenging and have it set as global announcement like they do when emp is crowded to promote district PvP.
The district's themselves need additional flags to punish zerging in one spot. Or the the district's themselves give a separate buff or the flags in each district can be attached to a grouping that lets players target them (control all house flags and receive additional guards at all faction flags etc.)
Just some open thoughts.
No offense but that sounds weak and not very compelling at all, nothing I can imagine would be remotely compelling without drastically and completely redesigning Imperial City from the ground up, and I along with many others like it the way it is and don't think it should be changed except to be separated, how about arguing against some of the points I made in my last posts if you want to convince us otherwise?
See below in bold :
1) "As others have said, Imperial City is just too different a playstyle for it to mesh well with the outside campaign, and your ideas frankly sound horribly imbalanced to me and not the least bit helpful for anyone besides whichever Zerg is larger. For one thing there is just too much PvE in Imperial City, it's okay for its own instance but Imperial City style play was and is absolutely not what I signed up for, the Alliance War is a strictly PvP thing with only minimal non-player combatants on resources and the like. Sieging keeps and taking scrolls is what this game's AvA war was and is all about, and it should stay that way." Different playstyles is good for the health of any game. Separating the playstyles is not hte answer either (unless you want pve completely removed from pvp. TBH the best time for pvp in this game was when PVE players were forced to do PVP to achieve the item sets (ravenger, MT, etc.). So aside from gear how else can you MAKE people pvp? Leaderboards and gear are the quickest ways (EMP and AP points/top leaderboard with a gear reward are still the only factors in forcing people to PVP everyday. if these didn't exist no one would pvp.
"And have you seen Imperial City lately? That place is an absolute mess, overrun by Daedra and rogue Imperials, and it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could be considered as controlling it without it being cleaned up and not have Daedra all over. Just because you happen to control a few flags, you think that should count the same as an Emperor for their team? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, controlling a few flags with no walls around them that takes so little effort and also still leaves the entire actual city under Daedra control means nothing, you can't be said to control *** without wiping the Daedra out completely, anything else is nonsense. That's like saying you should control a Keep if every NPC inside the keep were a Daedra, that is nonsense, you don't control *** unless your soldiers are completely in control."It is a mess if you think of it as a PVP-park ride. In some recent changes brian wheeler was quoted as looking to add life to pvp environments to add a dynamic atmosphere. IC achieves this but the following mechanics; a patrolling boss, NPC's engaging with little weak NPC humans, daily quests to interact with those NPCS. From a storyline aspect, the deadra and imperials no longer make sense. You can make the alliance war make sense but adding patrolling faction guards that engage in NPCS yet can attack players. You can enable a "captain boss" with a chance to drop IC gear or motifs. but all this stuff is minor and without a leaderboard, its essentially just a PVE land where you go to pretend you are a bully stealing lunchmoney. IT MUST BE TIED TO THE ALLIANCE SCORE TO BE CONSIDERED PVP.
"Trying to mesh Imperial Ctiy together with the outside campaign would require that Imperial City be completely redesigned and the Daedra completely removed, with the walls and doors of the districts needing to be sieged down like anywhere else. Basically turn each District into it's own keep, and if you don't control a district you can't enter it at all without sieging into it. And the only NPC's being Soldiers from the Alliance who controls it, again it makes no sense for anyone to be said to be controlling anything so long as the Daedra are everywhere, they're the ones in control not us and you're a damn fool if you think otherwise."sub daedra with alliance factions. that handles the point where you cant get over the NPC factor limiting your pvp experience. locking and seiging the district walls is difficult and suggests the playstyle to match vanilla cyro (huge mistake since you wanted the playstyles to remain separate.) each flag should have a BOSS npc requiring coordination if oyu are worried about difficulty in capturing the flag. Adding a leaderboard with a chance to gain stats is currently the only known pvp mechanic that works. untill they design other objectives, there has been no other mechanic that forces people to pvp (aside from gear.)
"Also, nothing like Tel Var Stones has any business affecting PvP like you suggest with a leaderboard and the top guy getting buffs against other players, not when Tel Var stones are primarily obtained by killing PvE enemies and/or Ganking players who fought lots of PvE enemies themselves, and no one deserves to get any standing in PvP for being good at Ganking or fighting PvE enemies."you get AP by taking resources. you get more AP by killing players. with tel var you get stones for killing NPCs/quests, but you get more tel var if you PVP. currently the two systems match and therefore should have scores that affect the general alliance war score. adding a emp mechanic to IC seems like a no brainer if you want to use precedence to promote pvp play (aside form gear). additionally you can add a chance to earn IC gear instead of upper cyro gear at end of campaign win.
"And that doesn't even touch the Sewers, I have no idea what could be done with them frankly because PvE with a bit of PvP is what the Sewers are all about, and you can't really change them significantly without ruining them for the people who like them now. You can't siege anything from down there so there can't be connections to the districts without causing imbalance in the fight above, no point sieging anything if you can just pop up anywhere you want through the sewers and rush any district that way. And taking away the Daedra would defeat the point of them being there, there would basically be nothing to do down there besides the occasional skirmish."sewers remain a pve land. you should get dailies that reflect this and promote a place to farm tel var. center mechanic promotes faction tensions. due to this, sewers is the best pvp experience in IC; you can earn stones for gear, and get into pvp fights easily. no seige should be allowed in IC or sewers,.
"And you need something that can be accomplished in the sewers because that's where most people in Imperial City go, and if they're not accomplishing objectives that contribute to winning then they're once again just taking up space and gimping their team above. And again you're not really controlling anything as long as the Daedra are everywhere, so they'd need to be removed for anyone to be able to say that they control the city. The Imperial City was an interesting idea and I don't think that style of play should just be removed, but it certainly shouldn't be connected in any way to the War at large in anything remotely resembling its current form."most players go here to earn tel var and gank players. force upper to interact with lower? once again, no one will pvp except for a chance to win gear or be on a leaderboard or for kills.
"The fact is that so long as the city is overrun with Daedra it makes perfect sense for it to be separate from the War, it was never more than a symbol anyway. Controlling the land around it is what makes someone an Emperor, which is why ZOS made it work the way they did with taking the keeps around it. The Daedra only took it over because it was relatively undefended because of the chaos after Varen did his thing, and it's the center of Tamriel with walls and a moat around it, what better place for Molag Bal to use as a base of operations for enacting his plan to suck the world into Coldharbour from? And frankly even if they implemented every change I suggested, having more things that people need to pay attention to could well only serve to divide our forces and limit our ability to fight everywhere else, so your suggestion about locking access to the city is especially ill-conceived."you really cant get over the Daedra being there can you lol. The city lockdown mechanic was to promote vanila cyro interacting with being in IC. if you are in IC you cant be in reg cyro, so it makes sense to introduce ways to force players to keep moving and promote interesting ways to pvp instead of only going between keeps or just farming telvar.
"It needs to be freely accessed by Transit Shrine from any keep adjacent to the city, locking access without controlling 5 of the surrounding keeps just ensures that fewer people will go there since accessing it is so difficult, and also ensure that the war effort is that much more imbalanced because all anyone needs to do is stop the enemy team from controlling 5 keeps and they won't be able to access the city at all. That would ensure greater imbalance, not less, if anything in the city afforded any benefit to the players controlling it."the control mechanic was only the faction inner home keeps. For DC its Ales and Ash, with Ash serving as the keep closest to the sewer entrance. If IC and Cyro are to function as one, the city should be accessed by the bridges to promote additional ways to enter the city
"All of this just sounds like too much effort for too little reward, especially since the changes required to make the city a proper part of the fight would ruin the city for those who like it as it is, and I frankly do like it as it is, just not that it shares a population with the outside campaign. It's an interesting place and don't think it should change, just be made the separate place with separate gameplay that it always should have been, and all the better for people who aren't interested in AvA but who still like to do some PvP with PvE thrown in."once again, EMP, leaderboards, and gear are currently the only pvp systems promoting pvp play. If you separate it from general pvp, youll be doing the following: promoting pve or gank pvp only, separating the PVP from the game instead of thinking of ways to introduce it, and without a leaderboard or way to promote pvp youll be stuck with pve players that cannot pvp and that lack of challenge with discourage pvp since it would create the same situation pvp players feel when they have to interact with NPC content; it feels like fighting a pincushion.
God_flakes wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
We can have dailies that say "kills x number of this class, and steal 5k stones".
Then we can have "capture memorial, arena and arboretum district's and hold for 30 minutes.". They can pick the district's that present the most challenging and have it set as global announcement like they do when emp is crowded to promote district PvP.
The district's themselves need additional flags to punish zerging in one spot. Or the the district's themselves give a separate buff or the flags in each district can be attached to a grouping that lets players target them (control all house flags and receive additional guards at all faction flags etc.)
Just some open thoughts.
No offense but that sounds weak and not very compelling at all, nothing I can imagine would be remotely compelling without drastically and completely redesigning Imperial City from the ground up, and I along with many others like it the way it is and don't think it should be changed except to be separated, how about arguing against some of the points I made in my last posts if you want to convince us otherwise?
See below in bold :
1) "As others have said, Imperial City is just too different a playstyle for it to mesh well with the outside campaign, and your ideas frankly sound horribly imbalanced to me and not the least bit helpful for anyone besides whichever Zerg is larger. For one thing there is just too much PvE in Imperial City, it's okay for its own instance but Imperial City style play was and is absolutely not what I signed up for, the Alliance War is a strictly PvP thing with only minimal non-player combatants on resources and the like. Sieging keeps and taking scrolls is what this game's AvA war was and is all about, and it should stay that way." Different playstyles is good for the health of any game. Separating the playstyles is not hte answer either (unless you want pve completely removed from pvp. TBH the best time for pvp in this game was when PVE players were forced to do PVP to achieve the item sets (ravenger, MT, etc.). So aside from gear how else can you MAKE people pvp? Leaderboards and gear are the quickest ways (EMP and AP points/top leaderboard with a gear reward are still the only factors in forcing people to PVP everyday. if these didn't exist no one would pvp.
"And have you seen Imperial City lately? That place is an absolute mess, overrun by Daedra and rogue Imperials, and it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could be considered as controlling it without it being cleaned up and not have Daedra all over. Just because you happen to control a few flags, you think that should count the same as an Emperor for their team? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, controlling a few flags with no walls around them that takes so little effort and also still leaves the entire actual city under Daedra control means nothing, you can't be said to control *** without wiping the Daedra out completely, anything else is nonsense. That's like saying you should control a Keep if every NPC inside the keep were a Daedra, that is nonsense, you don't control *** unless your soldiers are completely in control."It is a mess if you think of it as a PVP-park ride. In some recent changes brian wheeler was quoted as looking to add life to pvp environments to add a dynamic atmosphere. IC achieves this but the following mechanics; a patrolling boss, NPC's engaging with little weak NPC humans, daily quests to interact with those NPCS. From a storyline aspect, the deadra and imperials no longer make sense. You can make the alliance war make sense but adding patrolling faction guards that engage in NPCS yet can attack players. You can enable a "captain boss" with a chance to drop IC gear or motifs. but all this stuff is minor and without a leaderboard, its essentially just a PVE land where you go to pretend you are a bully stealing lunchmoney. IT MUST BE TIED TO THE ALLIANCE SCORE TO BE CONSIDERED PVP.
"Trying to mesh Imperial Ctiy together with the outside campaign would require that Imperial City be completely redesigned and the Daedra completely removed, with the walls and doors of the districts needing to be sieged down like anywhere else. Basically turn each District into it's own keep, and if you don't control a district you can't enter it at all without sieging into it. And the only NPC's being Soldiers from the Alliance who controls it, again it makes no sense for anyone to be said to be controlling anything so long as the Daedra are everywhere, they're the ones in control not us and you're a damn fool if you think otherwise."sub daedra with alliance factions. that handles the point where you cant get over the NPC factor limiting your pvp experience. locking and seiging the district walls is difficult and suggests the playstyle to match vanilla cyro (huge mistake since you wanted the playstyles to remain separate.) each flag should have a BOSS npc requiring coordination if oyu are worried about difficulty in capturing the flag. Adding a leaderboard with a chance to gain stats is currently the only known pvp mechanic that works. untill they design other objectives, there has been no other mechanic that forces people to pvp (aside from gear.)
"Also, nothing like Tel Var Stones has any business affecting PvP like you suggest with a leaderboard and the top guy getting buffs against other players, not when Tel Var stones are primarily obtained by killing PvE enemies and/or Ganking players who fought lots of PvE enemies themselves, and no one deserves to get any standing in PvP for being good at Ganking or fighting PvE enemies."you get AP by taking resources. you get more AP by killing players. with tel var you get stones for killing NPCs/quests, but you get more tel var if you PVP. currently the two systems match and therefore should have scores that affect the general alliance war score. adding a emp mechanic to IC seems like a no brainer if you want to use precedence to promote pvp play (aside form gear). additionally you can add a chance to earn IC gear instead of upper cyro gear at end of campaign win.
"And that doesn't even touch the Sewers, I have no idea what could be done with them frankly because PvE with a bit of PvP is what the Sewers are all about, and you can't really change them significantly without ruining them for the people who like them now. You can't siege anything from down there so there can't be connections to the districts without causing imbalance in the fight above, no point sieging anything if you can just pop up anywhere you want through the sewers and rush any district that way. And taking away the Daedra would defeat the point of them being there, there would basically be nothing to do down there besides the occasional skirmish."sewers remain a pve land. you should get dailies that reflect this and promote a place to farm tel var. center mechanic promotes faction tensions. due to this, sewers is the best pvp experience in IC; you can earn stones for gear, and get into pvp fights easily. no seige should be allowed in IC or sewers,.
"And you need something that can be accomplished in the sewers because that's where most people in Imperial City go, and if they're not accomplishing objectives that contribute to winning then they're once again just taking up space and gimping their team above. And again you're not really controlling anything as long as the Daedra are everywhere, so they'd need to be removed for anyone to be able to say that they control the city. The Imperial City was an interesting idea and I don't think that style of play should just be removed, but it certainly shouldn't be connected in any way to the War at large in anything remotely resembling its current form."most players go here to earn tel var and gank players. force upper to interact with lower? once again, no one will pvp except for a chance to win gear or be on a leaderboard or for kills.
"The fact is that so long as the city is overrun with Daedra it makes perfect sense for it to be separate from the War, it was never more than a symbol anyway. Controlling the land around it is what makes someone an Emperor, which is why ZOS made it work the way they did with taking the keeps around it. The Daedra only took it over because it was relatively undefended because of the chaos after Varen did his thing, and it's the center of Tamriel with walls and a moat around it, what better place for Molag Bal to use as a base of operations for enacting his plan to suck the world into Coldharbour from? And frankly even if they implemented every change I suggested, having more things that people need to pay attention to could well only serve to divide our forces and limit our ability to fight everywhere else, so your suggestion about locking access to the city is especially ill-conceived."you really cant get over the Daedra being there can you lol. The city lockdown mechanic was to promote vanila cyro interacting with being in IC. if you are in IC you cant be in reg cyro, so it makes sense to introduce ways to force players to keep moving and promote interesting ways to pvp instead of only going between keeps or just farming telvar.
"It needs to be freely accessed by Transit Shrine from any keep adjacent to the city, locking access without controlling 5 of the surrounding keeps just ensures that fewer people will go there since accessing it is so difficult, and also ensure that the war effort is that much more imbalanced because all anyone needs to do is stop the enemy team from controlling 5 keeps and they won't be able to access the city at all. That would ensure greater imbalance, not less, if anything in the city afforded any benefit to the players controlling it."the control mechanic was only the faction inner home keeps. For DC its Ales and Ash, with Ash serving as the keep closest to the sewer entrance. If IC and Cyro are to function as one, the city should be accessed by the bridges to promote additional ways to enter the city
"All of this just sounds like too much effort for too little reward, especially since the changes required to make the city a proper part of the fight would ruin the city for those who like it as it is, and I frankly do like it as it is, just not that it shares a population with the outside campaign. It's an interesting place and don't think it should change, just be made the separate place with separate gameplay that it always should have been, and all the better for people who aren't interested in AvA but who still like to do some PvP with PvE thrown in."once again, EMP, leaderboards, and gear are currently the only pvp systems promoting pvp play. If you separate it from general pvp, youll be doing the following: promoting pve or gank pvp only, separating the PVP from the game instead of thinking of ways to introduce it, and without a leaderboard or way to promote pvp youll be stuck with pve players that cannot pvp and that lack of challenge with discourage pvp since it would create the same situation pvp players feel when they have to interact with NPC content; it feels like fighting a pincushion.
"Force"? If someone needs to be forced to pvp...I don't want them by my side or even against me on the field. You either love pvp or you don't. You either love pve or you don't. I for one hate it. I detest it. I hate crafting and farming mats and making stuff and doing the same dungeons over and over. I like the ever changing, dynamic and unpredictable nature of pvp and the teamwork/social aspect of it. Let's be honest here, IC is a pve lovers paradise. And until and unless it has relevant objectives it will continue to be a pve lovers paradise, in a pvp area. And the bottom like is the pve'rs have PLENTY of places to go. Why they needed to devote one more area to pve is beyond me and actually makes my blood boil.
God_flakes wrote: »Lucius_Aelius wrote: »IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
We can have dailies that say "kills x number of this class, and steal 5k stones".
Then we can have "capture memorial, arena and arboretum district's and hold for 30 minutes.". They can pick the district's that present the most challenging and have it set as global announcement like they do when emp is crowded to promote district PvP.
The district's themselves need additional flags to punish zerging in one spot. Or the the district's themselves give a separate buff or the flags in each district can be attached to a grouping that lets players target them (control all house flags and receive additional guards at all faction flags etc.)
Just some open thoughts.
No offense but that sounds weak and not very compelling at all, nothing I can imagine would be remotely compelling without drastically and completely redesigning Imperial City from the ground up, and I along with many others like it the way it is and don't think it should be changed except to be separated, how about arguing against some of the points I made in my last posts if you want to convince us otherwise?
See below in bold :
1) "As others have said, Imperial City is just too different a playstyle for it to mesh well with the outside campaign, and your ideas frankly sound horribly imbalanced to me and not the least bit helpful for anyone besides whichever Zerg is larger. For one thing there is just too much PvE in Imperial City, it's okay for its own instance but Imperial City style play was and is absolutely not what I signed up for, the Alliance War is a strictly PvP thing with only minimal non-player combatants on resources and the like. Sieging keeps and taking scrolls is what this game's AvA war was and is all about, and it should stay that way." Different playstyles is good for the health of any game. Separating the playstyles is not hte answer either (unless you want pve completely removed from pvp. TBH the best time for pvp in this game was when PVE players were forced to do PVP to achieve the item sets (ravenger, MT, etc.). So aside from gear how else can you MAKE people pvp? Leaderboards and gear are the quickest ways (EMP and AP points/top leaderboard with a gear reward are still the only factors in forcing people to PVP everyday. if these didn't exist no one would pvp.
"And have you seen Imperial City lately? That place is an absolute mess, overrun by Daedra and rogue Imperials, and it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could be considered as controlling it without it being cleaned up and not have Daedra all over. Just because you happen to control a few flags, you think that should count the same as an Emperor for their team? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, controlling a few flags with no walls around them that takes so little effort and also still leaves the entire actual city under Daedra control means nothing, you can't be said to control *** without wiping the Daedra out completely, anything else is nonsense. That's like saying you should control a Keep if every NPC inside the keep were a Daedra, that is nonsense, you don't control *** unless your soldiers are completely in control."It is a mess if you think of it as a PVP-park ride. In some recent changes brian wheeler was quoted as looking to add life to pvp environments to add a dynamic atmosphere. IC achieves this but the following mechanics; a patrolling boss, NPC's engaging with little weak NPC humans, daily quests to interact with those NPCS. From a storyline aspect, the deadra and imperials no longer make sense. You can make the alliance war make sense but adding patrolling faction guards that engage in NPCS yet can attack players. You can enable a "captain boss" with a chance to drop IC gear or motifs. but all this stuff is minor and without a leaderboard, its essentially just a PVE land where you go to pretend you are a bully stealing lunchmoney. IT MUST BE TIED TO THE ALLIANCE SCORE TO BE CONSIDERED PVP.
"Trying to mesh Imperial Ctiy together with the outside campaign would require that Imperial City be completely redesigned and the Daedra completely removed, with the walls and doors of the districts needing to be sieged down like anywhere else. Basically turn each District into it's own keep, and if you don't control a district you can't enter it at all without sieging into it. And the only NPC's being Soldiers from the Alliance who controls it, again it makes no sense for anyone to be said to be controlling anything so long as the Daedra are everywhere, they're the ones in control not us and you're a damn fool if you think otherwise."sub daedra with alliance factions. that handles the point where you cant get over the NPC factor limiting your pvp experience. locking and seiging the district walls is difficult and suggests the playstyle to match vanilla cyro (huge mistake since you wanted the playstyles to remain separate.) each flag should have a BOSS npc requiring coordination if oyu are worried about difficulty in capturing the flag. Adding a leaderboard with a chance to gain stats is currently the only known pvp mechanic that works. untill they design other objectives, there has been no other mechanic that forces people to pvp (aside from gear.)
"Also, nothing like Tel Var Stones has any business affecting PvP like you suggest with a leaderboard and the top guy getting buffs against other players, not when Tel Var stones are primarily obtained by killing PvE enemies and/or Ganking players who fought lots of PvE enemies themselves, and no one deserves to get any standing in PvP for being good at Ganking or fighting PvE enemies."you get AP by taking resources. you get more AP by killing players. with tel var you get stones for killing NPCs/quests, but you get more tel var if you PVP. currently the two systems match and therefore should have scores that affect the general alliance war score. adding a emp mechanic to IC seems like a no brainer if you want to use precedence to promote pvp play (aside form gear). additionally you can add a chance to earn IC gear instead of upper cyro gear at end of campaign win.
"And that doesn't even touch the Sewers, I have no idea what could be done with them frankly because PvE with a bit of PvP is what the Sewers are all about, and you can't really change them significantly without ruining them for the people who like them now. You can't siege anything from down there so there can't be connections to the districts without causing imbalance in the fight above, no point sieging anything if you can just pop up anywhere you want through the sewers and rush any district that way. And taking away the Daedra would defeat the point of them being there, there would basically be nothing to do down there besides the occasional skirmish."sewers remain a pve land. you should get dailies that reflect this and promote a place to farm tel var. center mechanic promotes faction tensions. due to this, sewers is the best pvp experience in IC; you can earn stones for gear, and get into pvp fights easily. no seige should be allowed in IC or sewers,.
"And you need something that can be accomplished in the sewers because that's where most people in Imperial City go, and if they're not accomplishing objectives that contribute to winning then they're once again just taking up space and gimping their team above. And again you're not really controlling anything as long as the Daedra are everywhere, so they'd need to be removed for anyone to be able to say that they control the city. The Imperial City was an interesting idea and I don't think that style of play should just be removed, but it certainly shouldn't be connected in any way to the War at large in anything remotely resembling its current form."most players go here to earn tel var and gank players. force upper to interact with lower? once again, no one will pvp except for a chance to win gear or be on a leaderboard or for kills.
"The fact is that so long as the city is overrun with Daedra it makes perfect sense for it to be separate from the War, it was never more than a symbol anyway. Controlling the land around it is what makes someone an Emperor, which is why ZOS made it work the way they did with taking the keeps around it. The Daedra only took it over because it was relatively undefended because of the chaos after Varen did his thing, and it's the center of Tamriel with walls and a moat around it, what better place for Molag Bal to use as a base of operations for enacting his plan to suck the world into Coldharbour from? And frankly even if they implemented every change I suggested, having more things that people need to pay attention to could well only serve to divide our forces and limit our ability to fight everywhere else, so your suggestion about locking access to the city is especially ill-conceived."you really cant get over the Daedra being there can you lol. The city lockdown mechanic was to promote vanila cyro interacting with being in IC. if you are in IC you cant be in reg cyro, so it makes sense to introduce ways to force players to keep moving and promote interesting ways to pvp instead of only going between keeps or just farming telvar.
"It needs to be freely accessed by Transit Shrine from any keep adjacent to the city, locking access without controlling 5 of the surrounding keeps just ensures that fewer people will go there since accessing it is so difficult, and also ensure that the war effort is that much more imbalanced because all anyone needs to do is stop the enemy team from controlling 5 keeps and they won't be able to access the city at all. That would ensure greater imbalance, not less, if anything in the city afforded any benefit to the players controlling it."the control mechanic was only the faction inner home keeps. For DC its Ales and Ash, with Ash serving as the keep closest to the sewer entrance. If IC and Cyro are to function as one, the city should be accessed by the bridges to promote additional ways to enter the city
"All of this just sounds like too much effort for too little reward, especially since the changes required to make the city a proper part of the fight would ruin the city for those who like it as it is, and I frankly do like it as it is, just not that it shares a population with the outside campaign. It's an interesting place and don't think it should change, just be made the separate place with separate gameplay that it always should have been, and all the better for people who aren't interested in AvA but who still like to do some PvP with PvE thrown in."once again, EMP, leaderboards, and gear are currently the only pvp systems promoting pvp play. If you separate it from general pvp, youll be doing the following: promoting pve or gank pvp only, separating the PVP from the game instead of thinking of ways to introduce it, and without a leaderboard or way to promote pvp youll be stuck with pve players that cannot pvp and that lack of challenge with discourage pvp since it would create the same situation pvp players feel when they have to interact with NPC content; it feels like fighting a pincushion.
"Force"? If someone needs to be forced to pvp...I don't want them by my side or even against me on the field. You either love pvp or you don't. You either love pve or you don't. I for one hate it. I detest it. I hate crafting and farming mats and making stuff and doing the same dungeons over and over. I like the ever changing, dynamic and unpredictable nature of pvp and the teamwork/social aspect of it. Let's be honest here, IC is a pve lovers paradise. And until and unless it has relevant objectives it will continue to be a pve lovers paradise, in a pvp area. And the bottom like is the pve'rs have PLENTY of places to go. Why they needed to devote one more area to pve is beyond me and actually makes my blood boil.
We are all "forced" to PvP. Aside from guild groups forcing AP farms and defenses, players will choose the path of least resistances. In this case, the pvp experience is as follows:
- inner ring keeps are the only dynamic objectives. if you dont protect them, the enemy crowns emp and gives their faction strong buffs. You are FORCED to engage in keep-keep pvp play.
- keeps, resources, scrolls = only ways to control faction score. faction score helps you win gear, gear keeps a majority of players playing pvp. Score FORCES pvp play.
- Epeen forum warriors, streamers, faction leads use faction score to promote faction identity and videos. faction loyalty and score doesnt force pvp but helps add a dynamic element to pvp (resembles a leaderboard).
- no other areas on the pvp map add to the score, therefore you are forced to fight at the keeps.
We are all forced to PVP. It is linear, boring, and at least our idea is using the easiest way to introduce pvp to a place thats only pve. This is side from coding difficult objective scenarios (which we all know ZOS will not implement easily on a limited budget.)
PvP needs more dynamic elements.
Lucius_Aelius wrote: »IC does not need to be cut off. It needs more objectives, and those objectives need to impact the campaign.
We can have dailies that say "kills x number of this class, and steal 5k stones".
Then we can have "capture memorial, arena and arboretum district's and hold for 30 minutes.". They can pick the district's that present the most challenging and have it set as global announcement like they do when emp is crowded to promote district PvP.
The district's themselves need additional flags to punish zerging in one spot. Or the the district's themselves give a separate buff or the flags in each district can be attached to a grouping that lets players target them (control all house flags and receive additional guards at all faction flags etc.)
Just some open thoughts.
No offense but that sounds weak and not very compelling at all, nothing I can imagine would be remotely compelling without drastically and completely redesigning Imperial City from the ground up, and I along with many others like it the way it is and don't think it should be changed except to be separated, how about arguing against some of the points I made in my last posts if you want to convince us otherwise?
See below in bold :
1) "As others have said, Imperial City is just too different a playstyle for it to mesh well with the outside campaign, and your ideas frankly sound horribly imbalanced to me and not the least bit helpful for anyone besides whichever Zerg is larger. For one thing there is just too much PvE in Imperial City, it's okay for its own instance but Imperial City style play was and is absolutely not what I signed up for, the Alliance War is a strictly PvP thing with only minimal non-player combatants on resources and the like. Sieging keeps and taking scrolls is what this game's AvA war was and is all about, and it should stay that way." Different playstyles is good for the health of any game. Separating the playstyles is not hte answer either (unless you want pve completely removed from pvp. TBH the best time for pvp in this game was when PVE players were forced to do PVP to achieve the item sets (ravenger, MT, etc.). So aside from gear how else can you MAKE people pvp? Leaderboards and gear are the quickest ways (EMP and AP points/top leaderboard with a gear reward are still the only factors in forcing people to PVP everyday. if these didn't exist no one would pvp.
"And have you seen Imperial City lately? That place is an absolute mess, overrun by Daedra and rogue Imperials, and it makes absolutely no sense that anyone could be considered as controlling it without it being cleaned up and not have Daedra all over. Just because you happen to control a few flags, you think that should count the same as an Emperor for their team? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, controlling a few flags with no walls around them that takes so little effort and also still leaves the entire actual city under Daedra control means nothing, you can't be said to control *** without wiping the Daedra out completely, anything else is nonsense. That's like saying you should control a Keep if every NPC inside the keep were a Daedra, that is nonsense, you don't control *** unless your soldiers are completely in control."It is a mess if you think of it as a PVP-park ride. In some recent changes brian wheeler was quoted as looking to add life to pvp environments to add a dynamic atmosphere. IC achieves this but the following mechanics; a patrolling boss, NPC's engaging with little weak NPC humans, daily quests to interact with those NPCS. From a storyline aspect, the deadra and imperials no longer make sense. You can make the alliance war make sense but adding patrolling faction guards that engage in NPCS yet can attack players. You can enable a "captain boss" with a chance to drop IC gear or motifs. but all this stuff is minor and without a leaderboard, its essentially just a PVE land where you go to pretend you are a bully stealing lunchmoney. IT MUST BE TIED TO THE ALLIANCE SCORE TO BE CONSIDERED PVP.
"Trying to mesh Imperial Ctiy together with the outside campaign would require that Imperial City be completely redesigned and the Daedra completely removed, with the walls and doors of the districts needing to be sieged down like anywhere else. Basically turn each District into it's own keep, and if you don't control a district you can't enter it at all without sieging into it. And the only NPC's being Soldiers from the Alliance who controls it, again it makes no sense for anyone to be said to be controlling anything so long as the Daedra are everywhere, they're the ones in control not us and you're a damn fool if you think otherwise."sub daedra with alliance factions. that handles the point where you cant get over the NPC factor limiting your pvp experience. locking and seiging the district walls is difficult and suggests the playstyle to match vanilla cyro (huge mistake since you wanted the playstyles to remain separate.) each flag should have a BOSS npc requiring coordination if oyu are worried about difficulty in capturing the flag. Adding a leaderboard with a chance to gain stats is currently the only known pvp mechanic that works. untill they design other objectives, there has been no other mechanic that forces people to pvp (aside from gear.)
"Also, nothing like Tel Var Stones has any business affecting PvP like you suggest with a leaderboard and the top guy getting buffs against other players, not when Tel Var stones are primarily obtained by killing PvE enemies and/or Ganking players who fought lots of PvE enemies themselves, and no one deserves to get any standing in PvP for being good at Ganking or fighting PvE enemies."you get AP by taking resources. you get more AP by killing players. with tel var you get stones for killing NPCs/quests, but you get more tel var if you PVP. currently the two systems match and therefore should have scores that affect the general alliance war score. adding a emp mechanic to IC seems like a no brainer if you want to use precedence to promote pvp play (aside form gear). additionally you can add a chance to earn IC gear instead of upper cyro gear at end of campaign win.
"And that doesn't even touch the Sewers, I have no idea what could be done with them frankly because PvE with a bit of PvP is what the Sewers are all about, and you can't really change them significantly without ruining them for the people who like them now. You can't siege anything from down there so there can't be connections to the districts without causing imbalance in the fight above, no point sieging anything if you can just pop up anywhere you want through the sewers and rush any district that way. And taking away the Daedra would defeat the point of them being there, there would basically be nothing to do down there besides the occasional skirmish."sewers remain a pve land. you should get dailies that reflect this and promote a place to farm tel var. center mechanic promotes faction tensions. due to this, sewers is the best pvp experience in IC; you can earn stones for gear, and get into pvp fights easily. no seige should be allowed in IC or sewers,.
"And you need something that can be accomplished in the sewers because that's where most people in Imperial City go, and if they're not accomplishing objectives that contribute to winning then they're once again just taking up space and gimping their team above. And again you're not really controlling anything as long as the Daedra are everywhere, so they'd need to be removed for anyone to be able to say that they control the city. The Imperial City was an interesting idea and I don't think that style of play should just be removed, but it certainly shouldn't be connected in any way to the War at large in anything remotely resembling its current form."most players go here to earn tel var and gank players. force upper to interact with lower? once again, no one will pvp except for a chance to win gear or be on a leaderboard or for kills.
"The fact is that so long as the city is overrun with Daedra it makes perfect sense for it to be separate from the War, it was never more than a symbol anyway. Controlling the land around it is what makes someone an Emperor, which is why ZOS made it work the way they did with taking the keeps around it. The Daedra only took it over because it was relatively undefended because of the chaos after Varen did his thing, and it's the center of Tamriel with walls and a moat around it, what better place for Molag Bal to use as a base of operations for enacting his plan to suck the world into Coldharbour from? And frankly even if they implemented every change I suggested, having more things that people need to pay attention to could well only serve to divide our forces and limit our ability to fight everywhere else, so your suggestion about locking access to the city is especially ill-conceived."you really cant get over the Daedra being there can you lol. The city lockdown mechanic was to promote vanila cyro interacting with being in IC. if you are in IC you cant be in reg cyro, so it makes sense to introduce ways to force players to keep moving and promote interesting ways to pvp instead of only going between keeps or just farming telvar.
"It needs to be freely accessed by Transit Shrine from any keep adjacent to the city, locking access without controlling 5 of the surrounding keeps just ensures that fewer people will go there since accessing it is so difficult, and also ensure that the war effort is that much more imbalanced because all anyone needs to do is stop the enemy team from controlling 5 keeps and they won't be able to access the city at all. That would ensure greater imbalance, not less, if anything in the city afforded any benefit to the players controlling it."the control mechanic was only the faction inner home keeps. For DC its Ales and Ash, with Ash serving as the keep closest to the sewer entrance. If IC and Cyro are to function as one, the city should be accessed by the bridges to promote additional ways to enter the city
"All of this just sounds like too much effort for too little reward, especially since the changes required to make the city a proper part of the fight would ruin the city for those who like it as it is, and I frankly do like it as it is, just not that it shares a population with the outside campaign. It's an interesting place and don't think it should change, just be made the separate place with separate gameplay that it always should have been, and all the better for people who aren't interested in AvA but who still like to do some PvP with PvE thrown in."once again, EMP, leaderboards, and gear are currently the only pvp systems promoting pvp play. If you separate it from general pvp, youll be doing the following: promoting pve or gank pvp only, separating the PVP from the game instead of thinking of ways to introduce it, and without a leaderboard or way to promote pvp youll be stuck with pve players that cannot pvp and that lack of challenge with discourage pvp since it would create the same situation pvp players feel when they have to interact with NPC content; it feels like fighting a pincushion.
fastolfv_ESO wrote: »its already been stated early on IC cannot have any impact on cyro so that anyone without the DLC will not be left out, so most of this is wishful thinking. If you cannot have IC impact cyro it needs to be removed from it. Last night DC has a Q at 1am est with roughly 30-40 ppl up top. SO i poke my head into IC and we have not 1 not 2 but 3 raids of DC fighting in yell camping the middle. Was it intended to have 72 people just sitting in the center of sewers fighting themselves for the miniscule chance at a drop that many not even be able to drop due to bad programming?
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »IC is not just a pve paradise. In fact it "can be" more strategic pvp then up top
Best example when I was farming bone shards back in the day some 3-4 EP would show up
I would actually use the wondering bosses and npc as meat shields to kill people when I was outnumbered, it help even the odds when your face with 4-5 people alone if you played smart you could wipe people you normally would never have a chance in Cyrodiil do it can open opportunities in pvp you wouldn't have up top.
At the end of the day IC could be really really good with a few very small tweaks. The mobs being able to interfere in fights can add new wrinkles to account for and also opens up other avenues for victory or escape.
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »IC is not just a pve paradise. In fact it "can be" more strategic pvp then up top
Best example when I was farming bone shards back in the day some 3-4 EP would show up
I would actually use the wondering bosses and npc as meat shields to kill people when I was outnumbered, it help even the odds when your face with 4-5 people alone if you played smart you could wipe people you normally would never have a chance in Cyrodiil do it can open opportunities in pvp you wouldn't have up top.
At the end of the day IC could be really really good with a few very small tweaks. The mobs being able to interfere in fights can add new wrinkles to account for and also opens up other avenues for victory or escape.