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Zergs vs Lesser Numbers

Haduis
Haduis
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If you're going to destroy smaller numbers ability to combat zergs (6 target AoE cap), please for the love of god give us a reliable way to disengage from them.


I'm tired of my small group fighting another small group just to have a 50 man zerg roll up on horses and steamroll us. I really enjoy the PvP in this game but this is a very frustrating and common occurrence. I just want to be able to run from them if the need should arise.


So far, all you've done is force zerging as the only option for PvP. If there are no plans to allow for other playstyles, I'd rather go back to DAoC where speedwarps and SoS allow for guaranteed disengage.

Thanks
  • ShintaiDK
    ShintaiDK
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    Plenty of small groups possible. The 8vs8 battle in DAoC actually destroyed a huge part of its community. I dont see a problem with zergs or raids.
  • murklor007neb18_ESO
    Then just... run?

    Even an organized retreat will surely mean the death of quite a lot of peeps. But it should allow some to disengage and mount their presumably 70%+ speed horses.

    If you just shatter and rout... Well then lots of people die in a big mess. Its called steamrolling for a reason. Of course 50 peeps are going to steamroll a small force that doesnt have scouts out and cant retreat.
    Edited by murklor007neb18_ESO on May 18, 2014 11:12AM
  • Haduis
    Haduis
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    ShintaiDK wrote: »
    Plenty of small groups possible. The 8vs8 battle in DAoC actually destroyed a huge part of its community. I dont see a problem with zergs or raids.

    The death of DAoC's community had nothing to do with 8v8 as a playstyle. It had to do with server clustering, lack of official forums, and a terrible LFG system. Elitism reigned supreme. I'm not going to dive deeper into DAoC's community death so that's all I'll say on that subject.
  • Haduis
    Haduis
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    Then just... run?

    Even an organized retreat will surely mean the death of quite a lot of peeps. But it should allow some to disengage and mount their presumably 70%+ speed horses.

    If you just shatter and rout... Well then lots of people die in a big mess. Its called steamrolling for a reason. Of course 50 peeps are going to steamroll a small force that doesnt have scouts out and cant retreat.

    I just...what?

    I don't even know where to begin with this one.

    1. You can't mount if you're in combat for an absurd amount of time.
    2. Wanting to disengage from a fight SHOULD be possible. Right now, it isn't.
    3. Scouts? Like, players shouting things out in /zone? What?
    4. I'm not arguing that they'll "steamroll" a small group if the group decides to fight, I'm arguing that "running away" should be an option.
  • murklor007neb18_ESO
    Haduis wrote: »
    I just...what?

    I don't even know where to begin with this one.

    1. You can't mount if you're in combat for an absurd amount of time.
    2. Wanting to disengage from a fight SHOULD be possible. Right now, it isn't.
    3. Scouts? Like, players shouting things out in /zone? What?
    4. I'm not arguing that they'll "steamroll" a small group if the group decides to fight, I'm arguing that "running away" should be an option.
    No, clearly you dont know where to begin.

    I have no idea what situation you had when those 50 people came and steamrolled you, but I can bet anything that what you did when they came was not an organized disengagement. Its was a complete rout. I guessing everyone ran in every direction and promptly got slaughtered. So if we number it:

    1. Disengaging sort of assumes getting out of combat, doesnt it? Otherwise you'd still be in combat. And when you get out of combat, you can mount. An organized retreat would have a significant part of the force trying to go out of combat while the rest delay the enemy.
    2. Of course it is. I had a 1on1 yesterday and I got him down to 10% then the *** went invisible and ran away. I never did find him again because a couple of of his friends came and I had to stealth and back off too. If you're like 5 people wanting to disengage from 50 people that just rode in on top of you... yeah... good luck with that.
    3. You dont know what scouting is? Oh dear. I can give you a hint: its not using the godawful zone chat.
    4. You seem to be arguing that magically escaping impossible odds when engaging a vastly numerically superior foe should be an option.
  • ShintaiDK
    ShintaiDK
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    Haduis wrote: »
    The death of DAoC's community had nothing to do with 8v8 as a playstyle....Elitism reigned supreme.

    8vs8 drove elitism.
  • Kevaliji
    Kevaliji
    So the only way to fight larger zergs with small groups is AoE spam? you couldnt be more wrong, in fact thats the easy way to do it. Me and 5 guildmates some support heals and 2 single target dps can take on unorganized zergs with about 20 or so players. NONE of us abuse easy mode AoE.

    good day.
  • ShintaiDK
    ShintaiDK
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    We usually stealth to avoid zergs. And to attack people.

    ESO was so generous to give it to everyone.
  • Wizzo91
    Wizzo91
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    It's pretty much your own fault. If I run with a small group (5-15) people we always have NB scouts around our group. If you do you won't run into zergs and can go around them or run from the battle you are fighting at the moment.

    You just have to have the tactical advantage.

    Of course you can get surrounded and killed? But guess what PVP is supposed to simulate a war situation. It happens - and you get to respawn.
    [EU]

    Wizzo - Stamina DK - 50 - DC
    Wizzox - Magicka NB - 50 - DC
    Vilest Wizz - Magicka Sorc - 50 - DC
    Wiser Wizz - Magicka NB - 50 - DC
    Wizzo X - Magicka NB - 50 - AD
    In Rainbows - Stam Sorc - 50 - AD
    Fake Plastic Tree - Stamplar - 50 - EP

    6XX CP

  • Bolsh
    Bolsh
    ✭✭
    I've ran small group pvp for 90% of my pvp play time in ESO, it's possible even with just a group of 4 especially the outer laying towns and villages Zerg don't often trample though towns... Also the terrain is easily navigational and predictable.. Even a small 4 man group can read the terrain and predict where the Zerg will travel between keeps, no one says you have to attack a zerg that's why its called ganking... Catch stragglers, kill, hide rinse and repeat the pure rush of small gang pvp, knowing you can be zerged any minute is what makes it fun not to mention if you're good at small gang pvp the xp rewards are greater..

    Although I do think Zeni needs to add more interactblies throughout Cyro to give small gangs more to do..
  • Censorious
    Censorious
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    The OP seems to have no idea of the power of stealth as a tactic.

    I can't imagine being 'steamrolled' by 50 people. Didn't you notice them coming - don't tell me they were all in stealth. A 50-man guild group? all on TS? - I don't think so.

    Faced by that sort of situation my instinct is to fade out to the back, get behind a rock and stealth. The chances of being exposed are virtually zero.
    After every incursion of that sort I always find me and half-a-dozen players who've used the same tactic have an absolute field-day picking off the stragglers. Wonderful fun.
    'Clever' sigs get old real fast - just like this one.
  • Nijjion
    Nijjion
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    I think the 6 target cap stops all hope of small dedicated groups having a chance of fighting a zerg.... As you say a disengage might be good but doubt they will do anything like that.

    Would like the 8vs8 meta to carry on in games like ESO from DAoC but gamers these day don't seem to be into it any more.

    Maybe it's the design of the game as having parties of size of 24 don't help. Though GW2 never had that size of group and still guilds made zergs of 20+ for the turtle tactic... same will happen and is happening in ESO now and it's very sad to see it go like that.

    I really hope future games learn from games like GW2 and ESO that a target cap is a very lazy and bad way to design a PvP game.
    NijjijjioN - DK - AR27
    NijjioN - NB -
    Daggerfall Covenant
    The Nice Guys Guild
    EverQuest -> Dark Age of Camelot -> Ragnarok Online -> Cabal Online -> Guild Wars 1 -> Warhammer Online -> Vindictus -> SWTOR -> Tera -> Guild Wars 2 -> Elder Scrolls Online ->

    Eagerly awaiting Camelot Unchained.
  • Haduis
    Haduis
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    Haduis wrote: »
    I just...what?

    I don't even know where to begin with this one.

    1. You can't mount if you're in combat for an absurd amount of time.
    2. Wanting to disengage from a fight SHOULD be possible. Right now, it isn't.
    3. Scouts? Like, players shouting things out in /zone? What?
    4. I'm not arguing that they'll "steamroll" a small group if the group decides to fight, I'm arguing that "running away" should be an option.
    No, clearly you dont know where to begin.

    I have no idea what situation you had when those 50 people came and steamrolled you, but I can bet anything that what you did when they came was not an organized disengagement. Its was a complete rout. I guessing everyone ran in every direction and promptly got slaughtered. So if we number it:

    1. Disengaging sort of assumes getting out of combat, doesnt it? Otherwise you'd still be in combat. And when you get out of combat, you can mount. An organized retreat would have a significant part of the force trying to go out of combat while the rest delay the enemy.
    2. Of course it is. I had a 1on1 yesterday and I got him down to 10% then the *** went invisible and ran away. I never did find him again because a couple of of his friends came and I had to stealth and back off too. If you're like 5 people wanting to disengage from 50 people that just rode in on top of you... yeah... good luck with that.
    3. You dont know what scouting is? Oh dear. I can give you a hint: its not using the godawful zone chat.
    4. You seem to be arguing that magically escaping impossible odds when engaging a vastly numerically superior foe should be an option.

    Yeah your ability to read is...less than optimal.

    1. Disengaging doesn't mean getting out of combat (at least not the game mechanic of "in combat"). It means running away. Nothing more and nothing less.
    2. Not every class has stealth, so I say again no, it isn't.
    3. ....lol'd
    4. I'm not even remotely saying that disengaging from impossible odds after engaging should be an option. I never mentioned once that I would be engaging the impossible odds. Seeing them coming transitions to running. That's all I'm talking about.
    Edited by Haduis on May 19, 2014 10:29PM
  • Rev Rielle
    Rev Rielle
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    The other night, EP and DC worked together to de-throne AD. It was actually nice to have to watch where/who you attacked: You couldn't just mindlessly run in in a zerg everyone/everything in sight.
    I wish friendly fire was introduced (and collision) for all. It would add a new and somewhat novel aspect to the PvP. Making it stand out from other MMOs.
    If you can be anything, be kind.
  • Mefit
    Mefit
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    PvP is never ever Perfect , no matter what game you play people will complain about it to no end .
    Its a Open PvP map .............what did you think was gonna happen ?

    If I am trying to do a quest , look for a skyshard , or running to a cut off fort that we are defending or trying to take , almost 50% of the time I am ganked on my way there .
    I played Aion , being more of a PvEer trying to quest , having 3-whatever twinks run up on your or (if rangers/assassins) come out of hide and wreck you before you knew what happened .

    To me , who is happy to join in the fort taking and defending , and rushed my current alt that's going to be my main to lv10 so I can enjoy pvp with him , instead of on my VR NightBlade , I can tell you I would take this open map PvP over most PvP I ever played .
    I played Aion , Lineage II , Eve ,SWTOR ..............few others that I cannot think of atm for PvP , I love this one the best .

    It is a War , travels in packs or get ganked .
  • mr1sho
    mr1sho
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    Zergs must die!
    Gold Company Commander
  • L2Pissue
    L2Pissue
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    use vicious death, use snares like the boss set spawn of mephala
    2-3 people with spawn of mephala can fix zergs more than ZOS.

    Spawn of Mephala Set
    LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

    (1 items) Adds 1064 Max Health

    (2 items) Fully charged heavy attacks have a 100% chance to create a web for 10 seconds. Web deals 1130 Poison Damage every 1.0 second and reduces Movement Speed by 50%.
    Edited by L2Pissue on August 3, 2016 7:22PM
  • Miszou
    Miszou
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    To paraphrase Charles Babbage...
    On numerous occasions I have seen it asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if my 4 friends and I attack 50 people on a battlefield armed with siege engines and overwhelming numbers, why can't we win?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.


    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/c/charlesbab141832.html
  • THEDKEXPERIENCE
    THEDKEXPERIENCE
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    Necromancy is real.
  • Paraflex
    Paraflex
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    Haduis wrote: »
    If you're going to destroy smaller numbers ability to combat zergs (6 target AoE cap), please for the love of god give us a reliable way to disengage from them.


    I'm tired of my small group fighting another small group just to have a 50 man zerg roll up on horses and steamroll us. I really enjoy the PvP in this game but this is a very frustrating and common occurrence. I just want to be able to run from them if the need should arise.


    So far, all you've done is force zerging as the only option for PvP. If there are no plans to allow for other playstyles, I'd rather go back to DAoC where speedwarps and SoS allow for guaranteed disengage.

    Thanks

    Honestly they need to have a skill line dedicated to Crowd Control. A simple skill like an AoE Mez - 3-5 second cast and has a large radius (think of Volley) that can't be broken unless you wait 25 seconds or take damage would do wonders in this game.
    Edited by Paraflex on August 3, 2016 8:24PM
    Hollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank

    Max Stam/Mag Dk
    Max Stam Sorc
    Max Stam/Mag NB

    Don't care to dps much so I heal.


  • Paraflex
    Paraflex
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    Haduis wrote: »
    ShintaiDK wrote: »
    Plenty of small groups possible. The 8vs8 battle in DAoC actually destroyed a huge part of its community. I dont see a problem with zergs or raids.

    The death of DAoC's community had nothing to do with 8v8 as a playstyle. It had to do with server clustering, lack of official forums, and a terrible LFG system. Elitism reigned supreme. I'm not going to dive deeper into DAoC's community death so that's all I'll say on that subject.

    I played on Merlin and made it to a RR11 Druid...loved that game but it didnt have the right support of a community and its old and out dated.
    Hollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank

    Max Stam/Mag Dk
    Max Stam Sorc
    Max Stam/Mag NB

    Don't care to dps much so I heal.


  • Panth141
    Panth141
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    @Paraflex

    He's probably learnt this stuff in the two years since he said that...
    PS4 EU - Panth141 | CP 630+
    Dominion
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    Nocturnal's Guise - Magicka Nightblade - PvE DPS
    Udun - Magicka Templar - PvP Healer
    Onsi's Shattered Blade - Stamina Sorcerer - Dungeon/vMA Farmer
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    Tharkün - Magicka Sorcerer - PvE DPS
    Rahai-Anaa - Stamina Dragonknight - Provisioner (lol)

    Pact
    Perolis - Magicka Sorcerer - Enchanter/Alchemist/BwB PvP

  • Paraflex
    Paraflex
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    lol who bumped this old thread wow
    Hollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank

    Max Stam/Mag Dk
    Max Stam Sorc
    Max Stam/Mag NB

    Don't care to dps much so I heal.


  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    AOE Caps
    Jgt40fn.png
  • Thelon
    Thelon
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    Thread necro'd from launch, issue still 100% relevant.
    GG ZOS, G *** G
  • Vaoh
    Vaoh
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    Thelon wrote: »
    Thread necro'd from launch, issue still 100% relevant.
    GG ZOS, G *** G

    I didn't even notice it was a necro :lol:

    That's really sad....
  • pmn100b16_ESO
    pmn100b16_ESO
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    Well now we got some small scale to do at towns away from the z....

    Screenshot_20160803_203116.png

    ...maybe not


    Edited by pmn100b16_ESO on August 3, 2016 10:59PM
  • MisterBigglesworth
    MisterBigglesworth
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    Paraflex wrote: »
    Haduis wrote: »
    If you're going to destroy smaller numbers ability to combat zergs (6 target AoE cap), please for the love of god give us a reliable way to disengage from them.


    I'm tired of my small group fighting another small group just to have a 50 man zerg roll up on horses and steamroll us. I really enjoy the PvP in this game but this is a very frustrating and common occurrence. I just want to be able to run from them if the need should arise.


    So far, all you've done is force zerging as the only option for PvP. If there are no plans to allow for other playstyles, I'd rather go back to DAoC where speedwarps and SoS allow for guaranteed disengage.

    Thanks

    Honestly they need to have a skill line dedicated to Crowd Control. A simple skill like an AoE Mez - 3-5 second cast and has a large radius (think of Volley) that can't be broken unless you wait 25 seconds or take damage would do wonders in this game.

    Yep. They could also simply make Fiery Grip usable twice before the target gets immunity. That way 2 DKs working together could yank that pesky Templar healer right out of his zergball and around a corner.
    Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.
  • mr1sho
    mr1sho
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    Well now we got some small scale to do at towns away from the z....

    Screenshot_20160803_203116.png

    ...maybe not


    Holy crap lol
    Gold Company Commander
  • GivvumBoane
    GivvumBoane
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    Zerg is a funny word. It seems like a typo for Zero
    All hail the prophet that is Mike Judge, for his Idiocracy prophecy is near fruition.
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