Maelstrom Weapons Obsolete?

MrTarkanian48 · May 2016

With the buffs to weapon enchants are some Maelstrom Weapons no longer BiS?

The 2H that I worked hard to get has an additional 189 WD and a somewhat underwhelming DoT after using Crit Rush (which I have abandoned for Ambush due to poor reliability).

Now with the buff to damage enchants it appears you can maintain a 348 WD buff with a very short 1 second cool down.

Obviously some of the weapons will still be relevant like Bow or Daggers in certain applications. But will a crafted sharpened 2H (or Destro) with Damage enchant now be better than the Maelstrom options?

OrphanHelgen · May 2016

I have been thinking about it myself.
Agree with you, some of the maelstrom weapons cant be ignored, like the daggers.
But 1k more dmg with light attacks... I think I can handle to lose that.

luxfreak · May 2016

For PVE and 2h, yes, certainly.
For PVE and Staff: nah, not realy. But much closer
For PVP and 2h: probably depends on your build, on how much you use charge.
For PVP and Staff, yes, certainly

Wollust · May 2016

If you use poisons you want to use them on maelstrom weapons as they keep their weapon/spell damage buff.

MrTarkanian48 · May 2016

Why do they keep doing this?

I'm on console, so by the time my first character hit V16, Master Weapons were already obsolete so I didn't even bother.

Then Orsinium drops in November 2015, and Maelstrom weapons are behind a serious grind wall. You spend all this time coming up with the optimal build with the sole purpose of obtaining this gear. Not to mention getting frustrated, spending hours on end dying hundreds of times learning the mechanics and dealing with the lag.

Now that I have it down I can complete it much more easily, however, I still don't have all the ones I need to complete my builds due to RNG (Still need sharpened destro and sharpened dagger). I still spend several hours a week doing this arena which isn't enjoyable anymore have dozens of runs.

Now 6 months later they decide to double the damage on craft-able enchants...

Why not double the enchant on Maelstrom weapons to keep them relevant?

I still have many friends in game that can't complete this content. It was a sense of accomplishment to finally complete it and get rewarded for it. But now I'll probably end up spending 8 gold mats to craft a Night Mother's Mace that has 159 more WD 83% of the time vs. the Maelstrom 2H

MrTarkanian48 · May 2016

Wollust wrote: »

If you use poisons you want to use them on maelstrom weapons as they keep their weapon/spell damage buff.

Poisons appear underwhelming IMO when compared to these enchants. 100 % proc chance for 5 seconds up time with additional 348 WD (even more with buffs active) with a 1 second cool down. Poisons are a 20% proc chance with longer cool downs, not to mention resource intensive with having to farm and buy the mats. All you need is a soul gem to keep your enchants running.

Elevenstorm · May 2016

I was unaware that the cooldown for the WD/SD enchant was 1 second. I was under the impression that it was 10 seconds. Source?

Dagoth_Rac · May 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

With the buffs to weapon enchants are some Maelstrom Weapons no longer BiS?

The 2H that I worked hard to get has an additional 189 WD and a somewhat underwhelming DoT after using Crit Rush (which I have abandoned for Ambush due to poor reliability).

Now with the buff to damage enchants it appears you can maintain a 348 WD buff with a very short 1 second cool down.

Obviously some of the weapons will still be relevant like Bow or Daggers in certain applications. But will a crafted sharpened 2H (or Destro) with Damage enchant now be better than the Maelstrom options?

I am pretty sure the weapon/spell damage enchant lasts 5 seconds and has a 10 second cooldown. Whether that is 10 seconds after the last enchant ended (full 10 second cooldown) or 10 seconds after last enchant activated (effectively a 5 second cooldown), I am not sure. But it is more than 1 second. Unless you are running Infused trait + 5 Torug's set bonus or something.

And, of course, you can add a poison and keep the 189 weapon/spell damage buff. Poison only deactivates active part of enchant (the DoT after Crit Rush, the buff to Volley, the buff to light/heavy attacks in Wall of Elements, etc.), not the passive part of enchant (the weapon damage buff). Maelstrom weapon + poison is likely to be better than 348 weapon/spell damage that is not up 100% of time + no poison.

MrTarkanian48 · May 2016

Elevenstorm wrote: »

I was unaware that the cooldown for the WD/SD enchant was 1 second. I was under the impression that it was 10 seconds. Source?

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

With the buffs to weapon enchants are some Maelstrom Weapons no longer BiS?

The 2H that I worked hard to get has an additional 189 WD and a somewhat underwhelming DoT after using Crit Rush (which I have abandoned for Ambush due to poor reliability).

Now with the buff to damage enchants it appears you can maintain a 348 WD buff with a very short 1 second cool down.

Obviously some of the weapons will still be relevant like Bow or Daggers in certain applications. But will a crafted sharpened 2H (or Destro) with Damage enchant now be better than the Maelstrom options?

I am pretty sure the weapon/spell damage enchant lasts 5 seconds and has a 10 second cooldown. Whether that is 10 seconds after the last enchant ended (full 10 second cooldown) or 10 seconds after last enchant activated (effectively a 5 second cooldown), I am not sure. But it is more than 1 second. Unless you are running Infused trait + 5 Torug's set bonus or something.

And, of course, you can add a poison and keep the 189 weapon/spell damage buff. Poison only deactivates active part of enchant (the DoT after Crit Rush, the buff to Volley, the buff to light/heavy attacks in Wall of Elements, etc.), not the passive part of enchant (the weapon damage buff). Maelstrom weapon + poison is likely to be better than 348 weapon/spell damage that is not up 100% of time + no poison.

@Gilliamtherogue released a video on them here. The guy knows what he's talking about.

The video starts off on details regarding poison, and begins talking about enchants around 4:30.

Elevenstorm · May 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Elevenstorm wrote: »

I was unaware that the cooldown for the WD/SD enchant was 1 second. I was under the impression that it was 10 seconds. Source?

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

With the buffs to weapon enchants are some Maelstrom Weapons no longer BiS?

The 2H that I worked hard to get has an additional 189 WD and a somewhat underwhelming DoT after using Crit Rush (which I have abandoned for Ambush due to poor reliability).

Now with the buff to damage enchants it appears you can maintain a 348 WD buff with a very short 1 second cool down.

Obviously some of the weapons will still be relevant like Bow or Daggers in certain applications. But will a crafted sharpened 2H (or Destro) with Damage enchant now be better than the Maelstrom options?

I am pretty sure the weapon/spell damage enchant lasts 5 seconds and has a 10 second cooldown. Whether that is 10 seconds after the last enchant ended (full 10 second cooldown) or 10 seconds after last enchant activated (effectively a 5 second cooldown), I am not sure. But it is more than 1 second. Unless you are running Infused trait + 5 Torug's set bonus or something.

And, of course, you can add a poison and keep the 189 weapon/spell damage buff. Poison only deactivates active part of enchant (the DoT after Crit Rush, the buff to Volley, the buff to light/heavy attacks in Wall of Elements, etc.), not the passive part of enchant (the weapon damage buff). Maelstrom weapon + poison is likely to be better than 348 weapon/spell damage that is not up 100% of time + no poison.

@Gilliamtherogue released a video on them here. The guy knows what he's talking about.

The video starts off on details regarding poison, and begins talking about enchants around 4:30.

He essentially says there's a 6 sec ICD.

Gilliamtherogue · May 2016

Yep, all enchants have a base ICD of 6 seconds, which begins after they apply, meaning they have a minimum of a 1 second cool down, assuming you have no cooldown augmenting buffs (infused mainly).

As for the thread's question, Maelstrom 2h's will see a rather large loss in efficiency compared to a crafter 2h with a stronger enchant on it, although the DoT damage on Crit Rush will still have its advantages in PvP.

Maelstrom Destruction Staves, 1h weapons, and bows remain BiS.
Restoration Staves have dropped in favor as many healers should be runnning the Minor Vulnerability poison for more group damage.
Maelstrom tank weapons have dropped in favor (weren't even that great to begin with) by the buffed Crusher enchant.

dagonbeer · May 2016

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Yep, all enchants have a base ICD of 6 seconds, which begins after they apply, meaning they have a minimum of a 1 second cool down, assuming you have no cooldown augmenting buffs (infused mainly).

Hmm, it was my understanding that damage enchants (ie. flame, poison) has a cooldown of 4 seconds, while the weapon damage enchants has a 10 second cooldown (6 with infused trait.)

Is this out of date?

Justice31st · June 2016

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

Gilliamtherogue · June 2016

dagonbeer wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Yep, all enchants have a base ICD of 6 seconds, which begins after they apply, meaning they have a minimum of a 1 second cool down, assuming you have no cooldown augmenting buffs (infused mainly).

Hmm, it was my understanding that damage enchants (ie. flame, poison) has a cooldown of 4 seconds, while the weapon damage enchants has a 10 second cooldown (6 with infused trait.)

Is this out of date?

It's not because it's out of date, rather it was never true to begin with. All enchants have the same ICD, regardless of what they do. Simply going in game and hitting an enemy you can count the ICD before the next application may be, which is 8* seconds. Granted that you may not proc it every 8 seconds, as human error plays a big part in timing and capability; but it will proc much sooner than 10 seconds before the initial weapon damage applies.

I was incorrect in 6 seconds, this was back when the Two Handed skill line had a passive that reduced the cool down of enchants by 30% and rounded down fractions, so it made all ICD's 6s, even if you weren't actively using a 2h weapon. I went back in game and double checked everything, and it is indeed 8 seconds before it may reproc, after proccing.

kadar · June 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

I hope crafted weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2016

I think if your a nightblade specifically, you do not need maelstrom weapons unless you plan on using 1 of these ability's: crit rush, volley and flurry. If you do not, you don't need the maelstrom weapons. Since nightblades have their own gap closer and instant cast dps ability its not really necessary.

I personally like when players use the Maelstrom 2h. Go ahead, apply that DoT onto me, it's just what my Fasalla's Guille set want's.

Justice31st · June 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

I hope crafted weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

Then, It sounds like you haven't played many MMO's.

MrTarkanian48 · June 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think if your a nightblade specifically, you do not need maelstrom weapons unless you plan on using 1 of these ability's: crit rush, volley and flurry. If you do not, you don't need the maelstrom weapons. Since nightblades have their own gap closer and instant cast dps ability its not really necessary.

I personally like when players use the Maelstrom 2h. Go ahead, apply that DoT onto me, it's just what my Fasalla's Guille set want's.

I'd venture to say that most people do not really care about the enchantment effect of the 2H. The DoT is negligible at best, and crit rush always bugs out. If I slot a gap closer, I opt for Ambush. However, the 189 WD is the draw to me. My build basically results in one extra slot which the Maelstrom Weapon fits in perfectly.

Its just kind of annoying that the item you work hard to earn may now be obsolete to a crafted WD glyph.

In regards to WD glyphs, does the Weapon Damage get applied to the initial attack which procs it? Or does it only get applied to the following attacks after the initial hit?

timidobserver · June 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

Salt.

Justice31st · June 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

Salt.

Not salt when it is truth.

Silver_Strider · June 2016

Justice31st wrote: »

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

Maelstrom weapons will eventually become obsolete, either when they upscale vDSA and 1st tier "Master" weapons or they create a 12 main Arena with 3rd tier "Master" weapons.

Justice31st · June 2016

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Good, I hope the Malestrom weapons all become obsolete. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

Maelstrom weapons will eventually become obsolete, either when they upscale vDSA and 1st tier "Master" weapons or they create a 12 main Arena with 3rd tier "Master" weapons.

That would be great to bring back group content to obtain end game weapons in an MMO. They also need to finally make that content group finder accessible.